Any Fidelity Puritan Fund (FPURX) investors?

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atlgenxennial
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Any Fidelity Puritan Fund (FPURX) investors?

Post by atlgenxennial » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:25 am

Market rebounded a bit yesterday, but Fidelity Puritan Fund (FPURX) down 5.44%

Any ideas of whats going on there?
Last edited by atlgenxennial on Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Any FPURX investors?

Post by oldcomputerguy » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:34 am

Maybe distribution related? Fidelity shows that FPURX issued a dividend of $0.099 per share yesterday, and a capital gain distribution of $1.473 per share the day before. Taking those two distributions together, they total $1.572 per share, which at a NAV of $22.43 is a distribution of over 7%.
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Re: Any FPURX investors?

Post by tibbitts » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:42 am

atlgenxennial wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:25 am
Market rebounded a bit yesterday, but FPURX down 5.44%

Any ideas of whats going on there?
You do realize that nobody knows what FPURX is?

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nisiprius
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Re: Any FPURX investors?

Post by nisiprius » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:43 am

FPURX paid out a distribution.

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... redirect=1

Image

It paid out money. So there's less money "in" the fund. So each share is worth less. The same thing happens with individual stocks. If you have your account set to reinvest distributions, which is usual, then you don't see that happening in your account (look at your account a couple of days from now; wait a couple of days to avoid any questions about the exact instant things happen). If you have your account set to pay out distributions, you have a little less money in your mutual fund but you have a cash payment in your "settlement account."

Different mutual funds pay out distributions at different times. It's often quarterly but it doesn't have to be. The distributions are of two kinds, "dividends" and "capital gains." In either case, the payment comes "out of" the fund. If you have reinvestment turned on, it goes right back into the fund and nothing much happens overall, other than to scare you if you are looking only at price. When the dust settles, each share is indeed worth less, but you now own more shares.

In general, try to avoid looking at "price charts" that show price per share. For most purposes, it is much better to look at "growth charts" which show total return, including both capital appreciation (assets getting more valuable) and dividends (assets paying out money). My favorite place for growth charts is Morningstar, and you can set them to show only a month or so of data if you want, but you can find them on the Fidelity website under the "Performance & Risk" tab.
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atlgenxennial
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Re: Any FPURX investors?

Post by atlgenxennial » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:47 am

tibbitts wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:42 am
atlgenxennial wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:25 am
Market rebounded a bit yesterday, but FPURX down 5.44%

Any ideas of whats going on there?
You do realize that nobody knows what FPURX is?
That's odd since several people are in fact responding with knowledge about FPURX.

atlgenxennial
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Re: Any FPURX investors?

Post by atlgenxennial » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:52 am

nisiprius wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:43 am


It paid out money. So there's less money "in" the fund. So each share is worth less. The same thing happens with individual stocks. If you have your account set to reinvest distributions, which is usual, then you don't see that happening in your account (look at your account a couple of days from now; wait a couple of days to avoid any questions about the exact instant things happen). If you have your account set to pay out distributions, you have a little less money in your mutual fund but you have a cash payment in your "settlement account."

Thanks this is very helpful. Fairly new investor and new to FPURX so apologize for my ignorance.

Any ideas how to see if I am set up to reinvest? I am using Ally invest.

Thanks for the tip on waiting a few days as I guess the distribution hasn't been settled or reinvested yet, so the net value of my holding (for now, at least) looks way down...amplified obviously by the rough week.

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nisiprius
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Re: Any FPURX investors?

Post by nisiprius » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:52 am

tibbitts wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:42 am
atlgenxennial wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:25 am
Market rebounded a bit yesterday, but FPURX down 5.44%

Any ideas of whats going on there?
You do realize that nobody knows what FPURX is?
atlgenxennial, he's right; in this forum, we try not to seem sophisticated by referring to everything with ticker symbols. It's consider polite to give the full name of the fund on its first appearance. The situation is made worse by the fact that both Vanguard and Fidelity have more than one share class, and thus more than one ticker symbol, for what is basically the same fund. If you look for a pencil symbol in your original post, you'll find that you can edit your posting, including the "subject" line, to include the fund name.

I happen to know what it is because I found it when I once went looking to see if Fidelity had a counterpart to Wellington. It stands for the Fidelity Puritan Fund. A fairly old, actively managed balanced fund, a bit more aggressive than Wellington, around 65/35 or so... and it happens to have beaten Wellington. I'm surprised we don't hear more about it.

Puritan, blue. Wellington, orange.

Source

Image

The Wellington Fund is mentioned a lot in this forum. One reason is that John C. Bogle was personally associated with it, and he's frank in admitting that for part of the time he was associated with it, it did poorly. He has a long chapter about it in Clash of the Cultures, entitled "The Rise, Fall, and Renaissance of Wellington." Briefly, in that chart you can see it tracking along with the Puritan fund up through the fifties--the Wellington fund is much older, it's one of the very oldest mutual funds, started in 1929. You then see a somewhat flat section, "the fall." And then it picks up again and parallels the Puritan fund, "the renaissance."
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nisiprius
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Re: Any FPURX investors?

Post by nisiprius » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:57 am

atlgenxennial wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:52 am
Any ideas how to see if I am set up to reinvest? I am using Ally invest.
I don't know Ally invest. I suggest you telephone them. This is the sort of question a rep should be able to answer very quickly. The short answer is that if you don't know how it's set up, you probably are reinvesting. It's probably something you need to verify, not something you need to change. Very likely there is some account page you can look at right now that will show you whether or not you are reinvesting.

I notice that one of their pages says something vague about "reinvestment fees." If you talk with a rep about this, ask about it. There shouldn't be any in the case of a mutual fund like FPURX.

I don't want to get into all the ins and outs of active versus index, etc., in this forum you'll hear about it soon enough, but, very briefly: it is my personal opinion that FPURX is a good choice for an all-purpose balanced fund--but I hope you didn't choose it by running down some list and looking for the highest ten-year return.

Did you check expense ratios? FPURX has an expense ratio of 0.55%. That means that they are effectively taking 0.55% of your money every year. It doesn't sound like a lot until you think about the implications of "every year." However, 0.55% is not a "high" expense ratio--Morningstar in fact call that fee "low." It's not a godawful, vomitrocious expense ratio. Bogleheads usually look for something lower, though.
Last edited by nisiprius on Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:53 am, edited 3 times in total.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

atlgenxennial
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Re: Any FPURX investors?

Post by atlgenxennial » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:04 am

[/quote]atlgenxennial, he's right; in this forum, we try not to seem sophisticated by referring to everything with ticker symbols. It's consider polite to give the full name of the fund on its first appearance. The situation is made worse by the fact that both Vanguard and Fidelity have more than one share class, and thus more than one ticker symbol, for what is basically the same fund. If you look for a pencil symbol in your original post, you'll find that you can edit your posting, including the "subject" line, to include the fund name.

[/quote]

my bad

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Re: Any FPURX investors?

Post by jjface » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:07 am

nisiprius wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:52 am
I happen to know what it is because I found it when I once went looking to see if Fidelity had a counterpart to Wellington. It stands for the Fidelity Puritan Fund. A fairly old, actively managed balanced fund, a bit more aggressive than Wellington, around 65/35 or so... and it happens to have beaten Wellington. I'm surprised we don't hear more about it.
I think because Puritan is free to change its asset allocation between a certain range and that kind of thing is frowned upon here as market timing with manager risk. There are probably some other active management tactics that it employs too as well as a 0.55% fee and as the OP has found some pretty large capital gains distributions (OP I hope you are not holding it in a taxable account). Wellington on the other hand probably seems a lot more like a cheap tilted index fund with just a tad of active management. Which is much more aligned to the Bogleheads style.

I used to own it before I found Bogleheads and though it performed well those distributions were brutal.

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Re: Any Fidelity Puritan Fund (FPURX) investors?

Post by JW-Retired » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:13 am

atlgenxennial wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:25 am
Market rebounded a bit yesterday, but Fidelity Puritan Fund (FPURX) down 5.44%

Any ideas of whats going on there?
To make looking easier....... If you use the growth of $10k charts in morningstar it assumes you are reinvesting the distributions. The rebound gets shown there.

https://quotes.morningstar.com/chart/fu ... ture=en-US

You will need to change the scale to just the last few days.
JW
ps: I too don't like distributions because of taxes.
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nisiprius
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Re: Any FPURX investors?

Post by nisiprius » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:51 am

jjface wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:07 am
...I think because Puritan is free to change its asset allocation between a certain range and that kind of thing is frowned upon here as market timing with manager risk...
Actually, in an appendix to Clash of the Cultures, Bogle has a table of how Wellington's stock/bond allocation has varied with time, and it has jinked around quite a bit. 53/47 in 1947, 81/19 in 1972. It isn't any closet index fund. I'm willing to call (accuse?) a range of 53% to 81% stocks "tactical asset allocation."

It's not a fund I use and I haven't been paying attention, but I don't think it used to have international stocks in it? And now it does?
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

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