My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

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CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:32 pm

wasp09 wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:40 pm
It was posted inside this Chinese article:

http://www.sohu.com/a/235990048_452983

It said recall was done May 28. Owner found oil still increased and gas smell was still there after driving 500km. The complaint was made on June 7. Location was Canton, tropical climate.
My Chinese us a little rusty, so I'll take your word for it. :)
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:44 pm

Finally got this response to my case from Honda Customer Service. Sounds overwhelmingly reassuring, doesn't it? This has to be one of the longest investigations in the history of investigations so far. Woulda, shoulda, coulda maybe.
At this time, we are currently investigating this concern and developing a fix. This should be available mid-November. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

smitcat
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:05 pm

CULater wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:44 pm
Finally got this response to my case from Honda Customer Service. Sounds overwhelmingly reassuring, doesn't it? This has to be one of the longest investigations in the history of investigations so far. Woulda, shoulda, coulda maybe.
At this time, we are currently investigating this concern and developing a fix. This should be available mid-November. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.
When they said mid November did it also say in which year?

wasp09
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by wasp09 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:21 pm

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:20 pm

Lack of heat? What is this issue? Did I miss something in this 11 page thread?
https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/CR- ... erly.shtml

CRV with 1.5T engine won't warm up idling on the driveway. Remote starting and idling would result in dilution. Don't :oops:

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:28 pm

Georgia Lawsuit Wants a Recall for Honda’s Oil Dilution Problems
According to the lawsuit, [2015-2018] Accord, Civic and CR-V owners are not told how the engine oil dilutes with the gasoline due to fuel entering the crankcases. The resulting fuel/oil dilution allegedly reduces the ability of the oil to lubricate the engines, causing premature wear and engine damage.

The scope of the lawsuit is currently limited to Georgia, but it could have national implications for this growing international problem.
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2018 ... uit.shtml

For those who are wondering, the plaintiff owns a Civic with the 1.5T engine, not a CRV. So --- avoid those too.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:49 am

Seems to me that Honda is vulnerable to CRV lawsuit on at least two counts:

1) knowingly selling vehicles with a serious defect, as evidenced by the fact that 350,000 CRVs were recalled in China in early 2017 and numerous complaints filed in Canada and in the U.S. beginning in early 2017.

2) failing to acknowledge and to attempt to remedy the defect in the U.S. and Canada, saying that they were "investigating" the issue.

In my opinion, Honda's "investigation" excuse is simply a cover. What was actually going on was that Honda was waiting to see how many complaints and how widespread the complaints would become over this issue, and how expensive it would be to address these vs. the cost of re-engineering their defective engine and issuing a recall. They think we're all idiots.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:49 pm

Honda's solution appears Unclear
An engine problem has some owners of 2017-18 Honda CR-Vs complaining, and regulators have yet to launch an investigation into the problem. Honda claims it will have a solution available in November for 2017-18 models and plans to remedy model-year 2019 cars from the factory, but the automaker stopped short of saying it would issue a recall.

It's unclear if Honda's solution will involve a full recall or a more limited service campaign for owners with the 2017-18 CR-V with the 1.5-liter engine.

"That is definitely one of the things we'll be watching," Plungis said. "Is this a fix for everyone, or just a small subset of vehicles? Is it something that Honda is going to publicize so CR-V owners know that it's out there and available for them, or are [owners] going to have to ask for it - to know the secret code when they go into the dealer? And is it going to be free?"

For now, that remains unclear.
https://www.cars.com/articles/fix-comin ... 03180990/

My bets are:

> the arrival of the "fix" is uncertain - Honda still states that it is "investigating" and "hopes" to provide a fix in mid-November
> the "fix", if it arrives, will be aimed at a subset of defective vehicles: those experiencing oil dilution in very cold weather startups and short trips. It will do nothing for vehicles experiencing oil dilution in general driving conditions, warm weather environments, etc.
> there will be no vehicle recall - forget about that.
> there will no notification pushed to CRV owners - you'll have to know that you have the problem and take your vehicle to a dealer to complain. Even so, you are likely to have to tell the dealer that you know a fix is available and ask for it.

Let's see how many of my bets are correct when November has come and gone.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

TLC1957
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by TLC1957 » Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:14 am

CU...I saw this posted on the CRV Owners Club see below, indicates it is from a Canadian dealer, perhaps Honda USA will do the same, more of an FYI.


https://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/13 ... turbo.html

I just received this email from my local dealership.

“We have just received word from Honda Canada that a countermeasure will be coming out effective November 2018 to correct the oil dilution concerns for 2017-2018 Honda CRV’s. The countermeasure will include updates to the PGM-FI (programmed fuel injection) and CVT control software, as well as replacement of the climate control unit. In addition, Honda Canada will provide a warranty extension on certain engine components for up to 6 years from the original date of purchase with no mileage limit.

steadyhand
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by steadyhand » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:08 am

CR has now a video discussion on the oil dilution issue to go along with their previous report.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqzZm5j1Bl8

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:17 am

TLC1957 wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:14 am
CU...I saw this posted on the CRV Owners Club see below, indicates it is from a Canadian dealer, perhaps Honda USA will do the same, more of an FYI.


https://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/13 ... turbo.html

I just received this email from my local dealership.

“We have just received word from Honda Canada that a countermeasure will be coming out effective November 2018 to correct the oil dilution concerns for 2017-2018 Honda CRV’s. The countermeasure will include updates to the PGM-FI (programmed fuel injection) and CVT control software, as well as replacement of the climate control unit. In addition, Honda Canada will provide a warranty extension on certain engine components for up to 6 years from the original date of purchase with no mileage limit.
Thanks. Angers me because not only has my dealer not reached out to me, but I get stonewalled when I go in to talk to them about the issue and getting the fix. I'll probably initiate a Lemon Law claim with them. Maybe that will get their attention.

The fix being offered in Canada sounds exactly like what Honda agreed to do in China. It's targeted at cold weather/short drive oil dilution. Will it help other owners like me? I'm skeptical.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

daren12
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by daren12 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:59 pm

Just curious, does anyone have a rough estimate the number of customers impacted by the Earth Dream 1.5 L Turbo (own the 2017, 2018 Turbo engine)? Also anyone know will there be a priority on order of deploying the fix (i.e. will Honda be working with with opened cases, then moving on to "closed then-reopened" and finally closed when s/b open? p.s. Honda (both dealership and Customer Service) indicating very few customers impacted by issue :D Thanks

daren12
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by daren12 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:27 pm

Sorry if my laughing face implied disrespect to any of poor consumers impacted by this mess. I'm as angry as everyone else and searching for answers. The various State Attorney generals (all 50) including BB s/b angry for the thousands of consumers impacted --including me. Think this story deserves to be told on a national level including 60 minutes! I'm compiling a list of Honda Cast of Players or glossary of terms as still trying to understand it all

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:41 am

Yesterday, I drove the CRV for about 20-30 minutes and parked. I noticed quite a trail of water drops on the pavement behind both of the exhaust pipes for about 2-3 feet and then noticed that there was actually water pooled in the ends of the exhaust pipes as well. Never seen this before. What do you make of it?
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

sciencenerd
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by sciencenerd » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:53 am

I have a 2018 CRV with the 2.4 L engine. I guess there is no strong evidence that it is affected by the issue?

In any case, I did an oil level check yesterday, roughly 1000 miles after our first oil change. The oil level was at about the 1/4 level mark between empty and full. I didn't notice any gas smell. The question is: Would Honda actually "underfill" during an oil change, as to make it take longer for the oil level to reach over-full level and, thus, cause less complaints? Did anyone ever check their oil level right after a change?

TLC1957
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by TLC1957 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:07 am

sciencenerd wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:53 am
I have a 2018 CRV with the 2.4 L engine. I guess there is no strong evidence that it is affected by the issue?

In any case, I did an oil level check yesterday, roughly 1000 miles after our first oil change. The oil level was at about the 1/4 level mark between empty and full. I didn't notice any gas smell. The question is: Would Honda actually "underfill" during an oil change, as to make it take longer for the oil level to reach over-full level and, thus, cause less complaints? Did anyone ever check their oil level right after a change?
Yes I checked the oil level after the Honda dealer changed the oil in the 1.5 L engine in my 2017 Touring CRV and it was overfilled :oops: I went back and had them change the oil to the correct amount, I spoke to the person changing the oil and he said that was the amount of oil he always uses and was not aware of the 2 engines require a different amount of oil. :annoyed Then I got to thinking changing oil is most likely the lowest level of experience in the repair shop. So yes you should check the oil level in the parking lot of the dealer so you can bring it back around and have it changed again. :mrgreen:

2017HatchCivic
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by 2017HatchCivic » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:00 pm

Hello Everyone,

I have a 2017 Civic Hatchback 1.5T. Love the car but I have had this issue since new. 1000km after an oil change my oil level rises just above the orange dipstick indicator(roughly 1 inch above full). My daily commute is 225km to work round trip roughly 110kmh. I’ve always used good quality 0w20 and PetroCanada gas. I never idle my car except the Tim Hortons drive through. I do not have a block heater. I have performed oil analysis on 2 oil changed and soon a third and have found very high levels of fuel dilution. Neithless to say I have noticed online while doing research that this issue happens in short drives or light engine load factors. I do believe this is due to engine fuel injection timing but I also believe that this engine has been designed so efficient that it does have a hard time raising coolant and most importantly oil temperatures to burn and evaporate contaminant if driven lightly. I did notice that my engine oil would rise quickly and stabilize after 1500km. I decided to experiment since Honda Canada did nothing to indicated they had any plan on fixing this issue. Since my engine oil level would raise roughly one inch above the full mark, I decided to raise the engine oil level one quart on my last oil change. This brough my engine oil level just above the orange indicator. I am at 15,000km on this oil change and my oil level has not raised one bit for the first time in two years. I will soon sample this interval to confirm this. I have 106,000km on this 1.5T and have not had any other issues. Wear metals in my oil samples have been very low also. I have found a good engine animation from Honda that shows oil level above full in relation to height inside the engine. Even with 1 litre added to the oil pan the engine oil isn’t close to the crank seal indication the oil sump is deep on this engine. Just some food for through if Honda decides to neglect the civic owners. What I have done is clearly not a fix but it does seem to raise crank case pressure/temperature and evacuate contaminants or thoery number 2 the crank weights are just starting to touch the oil at this level causing more oil spray on the cylinder walls and a slide drag on the engine cause more heat. Currently at 30% oil life so I will have an oil sample soon to confirm it has helped my viscosity/fuel dilution problem.

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:00 am

2017HatchCivic wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:00 pm
Hello Everyone,

I have a 2017 Civic Hatchback 1.5T. Love the car but I have had this issue since new. 1000km after an oil change my oil level rises just above the orange dipstick indicator(roughly 1 inch above full). My daily commute is 225km to work round trip roughly 110kmh. I’ve always used good quality 0w20 and PetroCanada gas. I never idle my car except the Tim Hortons drive through. I do not have a block heater. I have performed oil analysis on 2 oil changed and soon a third and have found very high levels of fuel dilution. Neithless to say I have noticed online while doing research that this issue happens in short drives or light engine load factors. I do believe this is due to engine fuel injection timing but I also believe that this engine has been designed so efficient that it does have a hard time raising coolant and most importantly oil temperatures to burn and evaporate contaminant if driven lightly. I did notice that my engine oil would rise quickly and stabilize after 1500km. I decided to experiment since Honda Canada did nothing to indicated they had any plan on fixing this issue. Since my engine oil level would raise roughly one inch above the full mark, I decided to raise the engine oil level one quart on my last oil change. This brough my engine oil level just above the orange indicator. I am at 15,000km on this oil change and my oil level has not raised one bit for the first time in two years. I will soon sample this interval to confirm this. I have 106,000km on this 1.5T and have not had any other issues. Wear metals in my oil samples have been very low also. I have found a good engine animation from Honda that shows oil level above full in relation to height inside the engine. Even with 1 litre added to the oil pan the engine oil isn’t close to the crank seal indication the oil sump is deep on this engine. Just some food for through if Honda decides to neglect the civic owners. What I have done is clearly not a fix but it does seem to raise crank case pressure/temperature and evacuate contaminants or thoery number 2 the crank weights are just starting to touch the oil at this level causing more oil spray on the cylinder walls and a slide drag on the engine cause more heat. Currently at 30% oil life so I will have an oil sample soon to confirm it has helped my viscosity/fuel dilution problem.
Sorry for your troubles with the Civic. All the attention has been going to the CRV with the 1.5 engine and hope that Honda is going to offer a remedy to Civic owners as well. Results of your experiment are unbelievable - adding extra oil to solve the rising oil level problem! We can now add another folk remedy to the collection including using Premium grade fuel. Maybe we should try dancing around the vehicle on a night with a full moon waving incense. This is what Honda has reduced us to. Please report the results of your oil analysis to see if the numbers look better on fuel dilution / viscosity.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

Jack FFR1846
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:29 am

I'm curious. Has anyone seen thermostat changes to raise the opening temp, say 10 degrees F as a way to increase operating temperature, and maybe evaporate more gas through the PCV? This came to mind, seeing that a theory on what's going on is that the engine isn't coming up high enough in temp.
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2017HatchCivic
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by 2017HatchCivic » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:11 am

I also would believe that this would not fix the issue but it would definitely help moisture and fuel contamination evaporate. I have looked for different thermostat opening temps but I did not find any online. I believe the OEM opening temp is 178F. If anyone knows for sure please correct me if I’m wrong.

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