Medallion Signature guarantee?

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davewi
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Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by davewi » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:37 pm

My mother recently passed away and I am the executor of her estate. She held some stock in an individual account that I need to transfer to an estate account prior to distribution to the heirs. Unfortunately, I need to get a medallion signature guarantee on the forms requesting the transfer to the estate account. I can't find anyone to do this. The firm holding the stock is on the other side of the country and my local bank won't do it. Has anyone else encountered this problem before? I'm stuck.

Any help would be appreciated.

essbeer
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by essbeer » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:41 pm

I've done it at my local Wells Fargo before. Took a while to find somebody at the branch who knew what I was talking about.

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KlingKlang
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by KlingKlang » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:43 pm


Freefun
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Freefun » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:46 pm

My local chase bank did one for me at no charge.
Remember when you wanted what you currently have?

NotWhoYouThink
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:26 pm

2) In general, STAMP Participants may consider the following best practices before granting Medallion Signature Guarantees:


The individual seeking the Medallion Signature Guarantee has a continuing customer relationship with the Participant.
This is from the link above. And it's the hard part. Our local bank (which is listed as a stamp provider in the link above) will only provide MSG for private banking clients, even though we have been customers for over 30 years. And we don't do business at any other banks locally. It does get to be an issue.

When moving accounts inherited from FIL, the "old" firm (Wells Fargo) provided the MSG, but they weren't happy about it.

Good luck. It's kind of a no win for the provider - they are certifying that
1) you are who you claim to be and that
2) you are authorized to make the transaction you are making.

And if they are wrong they are liable up to the amount of the transaction. Who wants to take that on?

mlipps
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by mlipps » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:39 pm

Freefun wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:46 pm
My local chase bank did one for me at no charge.
Will add that they did it for me on the basis of only a credit card account relationship--no checking account. Local branch manager seemed to have a lot of discretion in this though.

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Ged
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Ged » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:40 pm

I did a Google search and came up with this.

https://esignatureguarantee.com/pricing ... t0QAvD_BwE

Not free but if you have no alternatives, it may be worth the $149.

sport
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by sport » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:48 pm

You might contact other banks in your area and explain the situation. You could promise to move your banking business to them if they could provide the MSG. I would make those contacts in person at the nearest branch offices.

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Artsdoctor
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Artsdoctor » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:49 pm

davewi wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:37 pm
My mother recently passed away and I am the executor of her estate. She held some stock in an individual account that I need to transfer to an estate account prior to distribution to the heirs. Unfortunately, I need to get a medallion signature guarantee on the forms requesting the transfer to the estate account. I can't find anyone to do this. The firm holding the stock is on the other side of the country and my local bank won't do it. Has anyone else encountered this problem before? I'm stuck.

Any help would be appreciated.
I'm sorry for your loss and I'm sorry you're having such difficulty with the medallion signature guarantee. MSGs can be very difficult to get, so you're not alone here.

When a bank offers a MSG, they're accepting the financial liability associated with verifying that you are who you say you are. It's unlikely that an institution will offer a MSG if they haven't done business with you for a while.

Here's an article which isn't really academic but offers a few work-arounds.

Best of luck.

https://www.lynalden.com/medallion-signature-guarantee/

FunnelCakeBob
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by FunnelCakeBob » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:55 pm

I've had luck with Chase. They didn't ask or confirm if I was a their customer, even though I had a checking account and credit card with them at the time. Be prepared by bringing the form for the stamp and the latest brokerage statement from the individual account, along with photo ID.

SoAnyway
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by SoAnyway » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:15 pm

davewi wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:37 pm
My mother recently passed away and I am the executor of her estate. She held some stock in an individual account that I need to transfer to an estate account prior to distribution to the heirs. Unfortunately, I need to get a medallion signature guarantee on the forms requesting the transfer to the estate account. I can't find anyone to do this. The firm holding the stock is on the other side of the country and my local bank won't do it. Has anyone else encountered this problem before? I'm stuck.

Any help would be appreciated.
I'm sorry for your loss, OP. :( Been there, done that - It stinks.
I'm surprised your local bank won't do it, but evidently they're not part of the STAMP program.

Are there any larger banks in your area? If so, go into a branch (whether or not you or your Mom had an account there) and ask if they can do a medallion signature guarantee. If they'll only do it for "customers" and you're not one, figure out the cheapest way to become one (open a savings account, apply for a no fee credit card, whatever). If my experience is any indication, you might need to get medallion signature guarantees on a bunch of different documents over the coming months... Best wishes.
Last edited by SoAnyway on Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:18 pm

You don't say where you are. If you're a Digital Credit Union member, they're free. I don't know about other credit unions, but expect they might offer them.
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SoAnyway
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by SoAnyway » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:36 pm

NotWhoYouThink wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:26 pm
And if they are wrong they are liable up to the amount of the transaction. Who wants to take that on?
Agreed. That's why I recommended that OP go to a large bank if those with whom Mom/OP/heirs had relationships aren't willing. The Wells Fargo/Citi/Chase banks of the world can afford to give their branch managers more discretion since the transactional amounts (even in the aggregate) are a drop in the bucket relative to the rest of their balance sheet.

BTW, for anyone reading whose heirs will be dealing with your investment accounts once you're gone, please do them a favor: Consolidate as much as possible ahead of time, and leave clear instructions. For anyone reading who only has online (no brick-and-mortar) banking relationships, there actually IS reason to have *some* type of account at the latter. BTW, most of my personal banking is online too. But bnm banks offer some convenient services I occasionally need, and it costs me nothing to have an established relationship at one. Just sayin'.
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tony_roach
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by tony_roach » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:44 pm

Went through this last year when my grandmother passed away. I went to my local branch bank and they were able to stamp my paperwork. If your bank doesn't do it I like the suggestion made earlier to shop your business to an alternate bank to see if they're willing to get you the medallion signature.

123
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by 123 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:50 pm

Is a medallion signature guarantee required in all circumstances for your transactions with the account or only for stock share transfers? Is there an option to sell the stocks in the existing account, based on your authority regarding the estate and then for the proceeds to be payable to you on behalf of the estate (which you could then deposit into the estate account)?

Some financial organizatons have rules that apply in one circumstance but not in another. Workarounds may make things not look as tidy as you would prefer them to be but sometimes workarounds are available. Perhaps you can open an account on behalf of the estate at the existing custodian, move the assets into it, and then sell them or transfer them somewhere else. Transactions seen as ownership changes by a financial organization are the ones that cause the biggest headaches.
Last edited by 123 on Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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OnTrack
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by OnTrack » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:54 pm

I recommend that everyone have an account at a brick and mortar bank and as a condition for opening the account, verify that they can issue medallion signature guarantees to their customers. Chances are you will need that service sooner or later.

Mitchell777
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Mitchell777 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:57 pm

I had mine done by a bank manager at my bank. It was not the bank my mother used. Your estate attorney should know the banks and individuals that can do it. I know when I had it done the bank manager told me she had just been talking to a paralegal from my attorney's office.

fabdog
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by fabdog » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:07 pm

As noted above, the manager has lots of discretion... we have an account with a B&M national bank for this purpose (medallion stamp/signature guarantee and safe deposit box). Last time we needed one, branch would not provide. Called another branch 5 miles away and they were happy to accommodate.

Hopefully our local branch gets a new manager soon, the previous manager was great, as was the manager at the other branch

do keep asking around :)

Mike

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MP123
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by MP123 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:37 pm

MSGs are a royal pain. I once had to fly to another city to get one. Okay, I was there on other business anyway but no local bank would give me one and I had to appear in person at the bank that held the trust account.

They seem to be required when retitling or changing names on brokerage accounts. If you are authorized on the account you may be able to sell the assets and transfer the cash to the new account. Tax consequences to that of course.

There also seem to be different levels of MSGs so a local bank that will guarantee a $10,000 transaction may not be able to do a $1,000,000 one.

The big problem for a bank other than the destination bank is that they get nothing but risk from doing the MSG. I don't blame them for not wanting to do them.

Good luck!

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nisiprius
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by nisiprius » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:59 pm

OnTrack wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:54 pm
I recommend that everyone have an account at a brick and mortar bank and as a condition for opening the account, verify that they can issue medallion signature guarantees to their customers. Chances are you will need that service sooner or later.
+1

I would like davewi to drop at least more of a hint about the bank. I'd like to know whether it's a small local bank, or a small local branch of a gigantic bank. I don't have any good answers, because the problem is that banks that do provide them usually require you to have had the account for some number of months.

I agree that everyone should know that medallion signature guarantees are a customary bank service, that eventually most people need one--and make it a precondition for opening an account that the bank provide them.

I admit that in between the times I need them I don't check just to see that they still do them. I have needed medallion signature guarantees three or four times within the last twenty years. My local brick-and-mortar bank, not huge, $400 million in assets, has always done them at no cost. We got them when we had low total balances at the bank, it isn't something they do for their best customers, it something they do for their customers, period. I need to call in first, because the only person who does them is a VP and he isn't always in--not on weekend, for example--so it's not as easy as getting something notarized, but it's not hard.

Medallion signature guarantees are a royal nuisance, and maybe a racket, and they have got to figure out something better--but for now life is what it is.
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Geologist
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Geologist » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:20 pm

I'm assuming that the OP is settling the estate on his own. I am involved in my mother's estate now (with my brother) and each time one of us has required a medallion signature guarantee, the paralegal with the lawfirm handling the estate has dealt with it. This is one of the things that we're paying for, I suppose. (As my mother lived in one state and my brother and I live in two other states, we needed representation anyway.)

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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Northern Flicker » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:26 am

When a bank offers a MSG, they're accepting the financial liability associated with verifying that you are who you say you are. It's unlikely that an institution will offer a MSG if they haven't done business with you for a while.
The bank insures the MSG liability. They usually do this up to a limit and if the account being transacted on is larger than their insurance limit they may refuse the MSG.
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by 123 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:07 am

jalbert wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:26 am
When a bank offers a MSG, they're accepting the financial liability associated with verifying that you are who you say you are. It's unlikely that an institution will offer a MSG if they haven't done business with you for a while.
The bank insures the MSG liability. They usually do this up to a limit and if the account being transacted on is larger than their insurance limit they may refuse the MSG.
It's been a few years since I had to get an MSG but I've done a number of them over the years. I don't think I was ever asked for an indication (statement) that established how much the MSG was guaranteeing. Of course I was having them done by a couple of "big banks" so I guess they figured whatever business I was doing fit within their limit. Of course if they know "you" are "you" then the amount doesn't matter and it's just customer service.
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NotWhoYouThink
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:58 am

Knowing that "you are you" is good enough for a notary, but for an MSG they must also know that "you" are authorized to make or approve the transaction you are signing for.

Good suggestion above to see if the law firm working with the executor can make a referral for an MSG stamp.

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randomizer
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by randomizer » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:23 am

These darn things feel like relics from the past century (or two). I can only hope they will go the same way the dinosaurs went, and sooner rather than later.
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Murgatroyd
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Murgatroyd » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:35 am

Fidelity makes this easy

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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by wolf359 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:49 am

123 wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:50 pm
Is a medallion signature guarantee required in all circumstances for your transactions with the account or only for stock share transfers? Is there an option to sell the stocks in the existing account, based on your authority regarding the estate and then for the proceeds to be payable to you on behalf of the estate (which you could then deposit into the estate account)?

Some financial organizatons have rules that apply in one circumstance but not in another. Workarounds may make things not look as tidy as you would prefer them to be but sometimes workarounds are available. Perhaps you can open an account on behalf of the estate at the existing custodian, move the assets into it, and then sell them or transfer them somewhere else. Transactions seen as ownership changes by a financial organization are the ones that cause the biggest headaches.
This is a very good question. I attempted to do an in-kind stock transfer in the past, and could not find anyone to do the Medallion Signature. Every major bank, community bank, and credit union I visited said no, even if I had an account with them. In some cases I had called ahead to verify if they did the service, then went in, and the branch manager would say no.

In the end, I sold the ETFs and conducted the transfer in cash. No medallion was required for the broker to write a check.

I don't know if this applies to the OP.

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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Pigeye Brewster » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:35 am

123 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:07 am
jalbert wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:26 am
When a bank offers a MSG, they're accepting the financial liability associated with verifying that you are who you say you are. It's unlikely that an institution will offer a MSG if they haven't done business with you for a while.
The bank insures the MSG liability. They usually do this up to a limit and if the account being transacted on is larger than their insurance limit they may refuse the MSG.
It's been a few years since I had to get an MSG but I've done a number of them over the years. I don't think I was ever asked for an indication (statement) that established how much the MSG was guaranteeing. Of course I was having them done by a couple of "big banks" so I guess they figured whatever business I was doing fit within their limit. Of course if they know "you" are "you" then the amount doesn't matter and it's just customer service.
The stamps are coded with the transaction dollar limit of the institution that is providing the signature guarantee. If it exceeds the limit, the financial institution receiving the document may reject it.

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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Artsdoctor » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:39 pm

OnTrack wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:54 pm
I recommend that everyone have an account at a brick and mortar bank and as a condition for opening the account, verify that they can issue medallion signature guarantees to their customers. Chances are you will need that service sooner or later.
This is certainly a reasonable idea to start with. However, it's important to remember that this is a fluid situation. The number of banks offering MSGs over the years has contracted, so what you see now may not be what you see in the future.

Although I usually try very hard to make decisions based on what exists what now, I have to believe that a small institution would be more vulnerable to closing up an MSG offering than a larger institution. I hate to make suggestions based on anecdotal experience but that has happened in Los Angeles, and even the larger banks have contracted down to certain locations that offer MSGs.

The BEST scenario is that MSGs become extinct. However, short of that, they'll probably become harder to obtain, not easier.

For what it's worth, Vanguard has done away with its MSG requirements IF the people involved with their voice verification program.

Elena
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Elena » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:51 pm

As I am buying the $10,000 yearly max. of I-bonds allowed, I wonder about the future of Medallion Signature Guarantee availability in a banking environment where brick and mortar is becoming less essential.
I only keep my Chase checking acct. because of the Medallion feature (and some very seldom need to deposit physical cash). I have only sold I-bonds once, back when interest rates dropped to zero and I decided to invest those funds in equities. Now that interest rates are somewhat level with inflation, I am buying I-bonds again, with the only difference that I will hopefully be able to keep them regardless, as my assets are larger than twelve years ago.
Does anyone know whether the Medallion Signature Guarantee will at some point have an alternative or become a rarity (like Travellers Cheques back in the day, or some other instruments now discontinued)?

*** TreasuryDirect seems to move very slowly in regards to current financial dynamics. Maybe it wants to discourage liquidation of its investments?

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:38 pm

Treasury Direct did not require a medallion signature guarantee. There were a number of options. I certainly encountered ignorance at my bank when I tried to link my checking account. It was as if measures between notarization (not enough) and medallion (very considerably more than enough) didn't exist, even though the paper form itself listed them.

A medallion guarantee requires the issuing institution to take on potential liability. Lesser measures do not.

Treasury Direct no longer requires documentation of that type to link an identically-registered bank account.

PJW

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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by nisiprius » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:45 pm

davewi wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:37 pm
My mother recently passed away and I am the executor of her estate. She held some stock in an individual account that I need to transfer to an estate account prior to distribution to the heirs. Unfortunately, I need to get a medallion signature guarantee on the forms requesting the transfer to the estate account. I can't find anyone to do this. The firm holding the stock is on the other side of the country and my local bank won't do it. Has anyone else encountered this problem before? I'm stuck.

Any help would be appreciated.
This won't help you, but I first ran into this decades ago, and now, among the first things I do when considering opening an account in a new bank is to find out whether they will do medallion signature guarantees for depositors. And where you need to go to have it done (some people in the forum have banks that will only do them in a "main branch" thirty miles away, not at the branch you go to).
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Geologist » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:51 pm

It can be hard to predict or control all the circumstances in which MSG’s will be needed. It is certainly convenient that Vanguard offers voice verification in lieu of MSG, but the OP was dealing with inherited assets. You may not have control over the institutions involved in an inheritance situation and their requirements.

I didn’t mention in my entry upthread that I can get MSG’s pretty easily at my credit union so I knew I had a simple backup to the law firm’s approach.

As far as Treasury Direct, we needed to transfer Treasury notes from my mother’s account (ultimately to Vanguard so they could be sold). This was an involved procedure, although I’m not sure now about MSG (the form had to be signed by both co-executors, my brother and me, and I filled out the form first and sent it to him and I no longer remember what steps then were required).

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:54 pm

Sure. I was responding to Elena's question about electronic Series I Savings Bonds.
PJW

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wander
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by wander » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:58 pm

Navy Federal Credit Union provides this service for free.

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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Elena » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:09 pm

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:38 pm
Treasury Direct did not require a medallion signature guarantee. There were a number of options. I certainly encountered ignorance at my bank when I tried to link my checking account. It was as if measures between notarization (not enough) and medallion (very considerably more than enough) didn't exist, even though the paper form itself listed them.

A medallion guarantee requires the issuing institution to take on potential liability. Lesser measures do not.

Treasury Direct no longer requires documentation of that type to link an identically-registered bank account.

PJW
Treasury Direct no longer requires Medallion S. G. to sell one's I-bonds? That is great news, thank you. They did back in 2007-08, when I sold mine (electronic, not paper), and it was hard because I did not have a physical bank at the time. Maybe one more reason to close my Chase checking acct., since I seldom have to deal with actual cash.

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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by HIinvestor » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:17 pm

I have done these at the brick & mortar Schwab, Morgan Stanley, and I’m not sure but perhaps a bricks & mortar bank. I’ve had accounts at all of these different places over time. Still have assets in Schwab and several banks & other financial places.

Agree that calling branch managers at various bricks/mortar places where you have your assets is a good way to find a place that will sign the MSG.

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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:19 pm

wander wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:58 pm
Navy Federal Credit Union provides this service for free.
That's good to hear! I've had accounts with them since the 1970s.

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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:21 pm

Murgatroyd wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:35 am
Fidelity makes this easy
Can you provide a few details of how Fidelity makes this easy?

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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Murgatroyd » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:17 am

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:21 pm
Murgatroyd wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:35 am
Fidelity makes this easy
Can you provide a few details of how Fidelity makes this easy?
If you are a Fidelity customer just walk into on of their locations. No appointment needed. Key is being a customer. And it’s free.

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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by JediMisty » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:29 am

Murgatroyd wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:17 am
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:21 pm
Murgatroyd wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:35 am
Fidelity makes this easy
Can you provide a few details of how Fidelity makes this easy?
If you are a Fidelity customer just walk into on of their locations. No appointment needed. Key is being a customer. And it’s free.
I called Fidelity to get the medallion signature service. I am a customer. They will only perform the MSG on their transactions (going into or out of a Fidelity account) according to the customer service at the Bridgewater, NJ office. They then asked me why I needed it (to transfer my Janus H. funds in-kind to VG). They asked me what type they were. They're D class and it turns out, VG can't accept them in kind. This is off topic, but it impressed me enough to consider switching to Fidelity. VG hadn't asked me that. Just filled out the forms and told me to get the MSG. When I asked VG why they said I hadn't mentioned the funds were D class. 🙄

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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Murgatroyd » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:44 am

JediMisty wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:29 am
Murgatroyd wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:17 am
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:21 pm
Murgatroyd wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:35 am
Fidelity makes this easy
Can you provide a few details of how Fidelity makes this easy?
If you are a Fidelity customer just walk into on of their locations. No appointment needed. Key is being a customer. And it’s free.
I called Fidelity to get the medallion signature service. I am a customer. They will only perform the MSG on their transactions (going into or out of a Fidelity account) according to the customer service at the Bridgewater, NJ office. They then asked me why I needed it (to transfer my Janus H. funds in-kind to VG). They asked me what type they were. They're D class and it turns out, VG can't accept them in kind. This is off topic, but it impressed me enough to consider switching to Fidelity. VG hadn't asked me that. Just filled out the forms and told me to get the MSG. When I asked VG why they said I hadn't mentioned the funds were D class. 🙄
JediMisty, your post made me think hard about the times I've use Fidelity for Medallion because all our $ is there. They did provide medallion twice when nothing was moving to or from fidelity. One was redeeming "lost" EE savings bonds and the other was I needed medallion as an estate "personal representative" to enable insurance payouts to my sisters when I wasn't stated on the policy. I looked on the Fidelity website for a policy on this and can't find anything. It could be that I am well known at our local office and I received personal consideration.

Jack FFR1846
Posts: 8584
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:05 am

Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:05 am

I'm a bit confused over what Treasury Direct has ever needed a MSG for. I've sold paper bonds periodically since the mid 90's and never needed anything but a driver's license to the bank/credit union. I've sold literally hundreds of thousands of dollars of bonds....i and EE. Almost all were paper, however. In 2008, 2 bonds were transferred from my late father's account to each of my sons. These were electronic at TD. These were then sold with nothing but a form and with no notary or any type.

My credit union (DCU) still offers free MSGs to members although I have never in my life needed one for anything.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

Murgatroyd
Posts: 194
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Murgatroyd » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:19 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:05 am
I'm a bit confused over what Treasury Direct has ever needed a MSG for. I've sold paper bonds periodically since the mid 90's and never needed anything but a driver's license to the bank/credit union. I've sold literally hundreds of thousands of dollars of bonds....i and EE. Almost all were paper, however. In 2008, 2 bonds were transferred from my late father's account to each of my sons. These were electronic at TD. These were then sold with nothing but a form and with no notary or any type.

My credit union (DCU) still offers free MSGs to members although I have never in my life needed one for anything.
The "lost" process was onerous.

JediMisty
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:06 am
Location: Central NJ

Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by JediMisty » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:24 pm

JediMisty, your post made me think hard about the times I've use Fidelity for Medallion because all our $ is there. They did provide medallion twice when nothing was moving to or from fidelity. One was redeeming "lost" EE savings bonds and the other was I needed medallion as an estate "personal representative" to enable insurance payouts to my sisters when I wasn't stated on the policy. I looked on the Fidelity website for a policy on this and can't find anything. It could be that I am well known at our local office and I received personal consideration.
[/quote]

Thanks for your post. I wondered at the time if I was getting the brush off since I have only 42k there. I even considered just walking into the office with my MSG paperwork, but as I didn't transfer the funds from Janus to VG, I never tried it. If/when I need an MSG again, I'll keep your experience with Fidelity in mind. It's worth trying again. Of course, I could have transferred the Janus to Fidelity and then out to VG. Those Janus and Fidelity accounts have high ERs, so they'll be the first ones I spend in withdrawal phase, which may be forced on me soon.

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El Greco
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:21 pm

Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by El Greco » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:36 pm

I don't know what part of the country you're in, but TD bank does it in my neck of the woods if you're a customer. They also provide many other traditional (and convenient) Brick and Mortar bank services that have been rapidly disappearing. i.e safe deposit boxes, drive up windows that open at 8 AM and extended branch hours 7 days a week.

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Phineas J. Whoopee
Posts: 7967
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:18 pm

Re: Medallion Signature guarantee?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:38 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:05 am
I'm a bit confused over what Treasury Direct has ever needed a MSG for. I've sold paper bonds periodically since the mid 90's and never needed anything but a driver's license to the bank/credit union. I've sold literally hundreds of thousands of dollars of bonds....i and EE. Almost all were paper, however. In 2008, 2 bonds were transferred from my late father's account to each of my sons. These were electronic at TD. These were then sold with nothing but a form and with no notary or any type.

My credit union (DCU) still offers free MSGs to members although I have never in my life needed one for anything.
There exist types of federal securities that are not the savings bonds many of us here purchase.

A medallion signature guarantee was, and is, required to transfer physical debt securities that aren't savings bonds. Treasury bonds are among them.

Physical stock certificates, although Treasury Direct has nothing to do with it, require the same.

It's important for us here at bogleheads.org not to lose sight of the fact our commonly-suggested retail securities are not the entirety of the financial world.

PJW

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