Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

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alex11
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Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by alex11 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:06 pm

https://www.businessinsider.com/chase-c ... own-2018-7

Didn't see this being discussed here yet, but was wondering if anyone here has been affected by this and if they cared to share the details.... number of cards open, did the cards have annual fees that were actually paid ect...

This is a little concerning to me, as we really like Chase, but we do take advantage of some of the bonus offers(about 1-2 per year).


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whodidntante
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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by whodidntante » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:43 pm

I haven't been shutdown, but I've seen several reports from those who have. The trigger seems to be a new approved Chase credit card application, where they do some kind of second level review and decide you aren't worth the risk.

Housedoc
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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by Housedoc » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:44 pm

I had one closed last year. Had not used it for years. No fee card. No effect on FICO

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alex11
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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by alex11 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:52 pm

Housedoc wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:44 pm
I had one closed last year. Had not used it for years. No fee card. No effect on FICO
The closing of one card would not concern me, but instead the closing of the entire account.

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by student » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:09 pm

I guess some users, especially of Chase Sapphire Reserve, have "abused" the system. For example, originally, you can bring an unlimited number of guests to priority lounge and some are bringing a lot. So I think now is limited to two guests. So I am not surprised that they are closing some who may have "abused" the system.

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by Alexa9 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:22 pm

Chase has the best cards so it's no wonder they're abused. I see no problem with them denying the people that ruin it for everyone on CC forums: churners and manufactured spenders that milk it as much as possible.

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by TravelGeek » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:31 pm

In this day and age it should be pretty easy for them to calculate the profitability of each individual cardholder. Can’t really blame them if they don’t want unprofitable customers.

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by LadyGeek » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:31 pm

This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (credit card).
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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by fortfun » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:45 pm

My wife and I churn the heck out of Chase cards. Haven't been shut down yet. I don't feel too sorry for the credit card companies losing money, give me a break. Do the math, they make 3% off of every credit card purchase. I think the 5/24 rule probably takes care of most of their problems.

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by TravelGeek » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:45 pm

fortfun wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:45 pm
Do the math, they make 3% off of every credit card purchase.
Assuming you are referring to the interchange fee merchants pay, I don’t think is accurate. It often depends on the card type and the type of transaction.

https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/global/su ... l-2018.pdf

Or have a look at Square - they charge 2.75% on swipe transactions. And clearly those 2.75% don’t all go into Chase’s coffers.

I have no doubt that Chase doesn’t make any money on any of my 3X transactions once I start using my URs more (been building up a nice balance for some trips next year), even when figuring in the annual fee. And they certainly don’t make money on interest from me.

Doesn’t mean I feel particularly sorry for them. It’s just business. But this goes both ways. If they were to conclude that they don’t need my business, I can’t really fault them. So to stay under the radar, I limit my churning and actually pay annual fees. All the Chase cards I have are occasionally used and serve a purpose (eg, free hotel nights). Pigs get fat (fed), hogs get slaughtered.

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by fortfun » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:01 pm

TravelGeek wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:45 pm
fortfun wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:45 pm
Do the math, they make 3% off of every credit card purchase.
Assuming you are referring to the interchange fee merchants pay, I don’t think is accurate. It often depends on the card type and the type of transaction.

https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/global/su ... l-2018.pdf

Or have a look at Square - they charge 2.75% on swipe transactions. And clearly those 2.75% don’t all go into Chase’s coffers.

I have no doubt that Chase doesn’t make any money on any of my 3X transactions once I start using my URs more (been building up a nice balance for some trips next year), even when figuring in the annual fee. And they certainly don’t make money on interest from me.

Doesn’t mean I feel particularly sorry for them. It’s just business. But this goes both ways. If they were to conclude that they don’t need my business, I can’t really fault them. So to stay under the radar, I limit my churning and actually pay annual fees. All the Chase cards I have are occasionally used and serve a purpose (eg, free hotel nights). Pigs get fat (fed), hogs get slaughtered.
Using your figure of 2.75%, in 2016 Visa made 41.8 billion in swipe transactions (not counting fees, etc.). I think they are doing okay :)

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by drawpoker » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:05 pm

Have 2 Chase cards, neither with a fee, but one never used. This year Chase sent a stern warning to use that one soon. Or else.

However, what irked me, Chase is also the name on my Amazon credit card, which gets used fairly often. So it appears to me that Chase keeps no comprehensive records, or cross-files of any kind. :shock: IOW, apparently they don't believe in one hand washing the other. :o

Last thing I want to do is jeopardize the Amazon charge card since, besides racking up points of its own, a year or so ago Amazon decided to let you use Citicard reward points to buy stuff. :D

So guess I am obliged to put up with Chase and their churlish behavior. :|

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by bob60014 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:13 pm

Swipe fees are just part of it. Those that carry a balance month to month at 17 % plus, that's their gravy. Those that churn and pay off monthly are where the so called "losses" are, imho.

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by Larry2623 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:21 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:31 pm
This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (credit card).
50% of threads have nothing to do with investing...What book... What movie... What car... etc etc

Not complaining just an observation

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by LadyGeek » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:46 pm

Please see the forum guidelines here: Personal Finance. The personal consumer issues guidelines are the next section down.

If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by AlphaLess » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:12 pm

fortfun wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:45 pm
My wife and I churn the heck out of Chase cards. Haven't been shut down yet. I don't feel too sorry for the credit card companies losing money, give me a break. Do the math, they make 3% off of every credit card purchase. I think the 5/24 rule probably takes care of most of their problems.
Nah, it's not that easy. The swipe fees are on average between 1.5-2%, depending on merchant's agreement with the network.
So Chase definitely does not make 3%.

Say, I get on average 2 UR points per dollar spent. Then I use the CS Reserve card to cash out at 1.5x, which means that I get 3% effective return on spend. Chase gets at most 1.5% in swipe fees. Plus they need to provide all the services: online access, customer service, blah, blah, plus all the value-added ones like Priority Pass and all the other stuff. And all they charge is an effective annual fee of $150 ($450 fee minus the $300 rebate).

The way to NOT get shut-down is being a good customer:
- have a couple of bank accounts,
- have an investment account,
- have a mortgage,
- etc.

Also, fortunes change all the time. I had 'black-listed' Citi for a while, and about 3-4 years ago they came up with some really good products. I was earning probably 3 TY points per $1, on average, and with Prestige, cashing them in at 1.33-1.65x, or 4% effective cash-back. Plus, you had the Admirals lounge, 4th night free, and all that stuff. But that gravy train ended.

Between Chase, Amex, Citi, BofA, and a slew of other minor providers, there is no shortage of point accumulating programs. We probably get $5-7K worth of (unpaid) travel per year via points, etc. And remember: those are all after-tax. So if you are in the 37% bracket, that's a lot more value.
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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by AlphaLess » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:13 pm

bob60014 wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:13 pm
Swipe fees are just part of it. Those that carry a balance month to month at 17 % plus, that's their gravy. Those that churn and pay off monthly are where the so called "losses" are, imho.
It is not that cut-and-dry. We have:
- multiple credit cards,
- mortgage,
- investment accounts,
- bank accounts.

The trick is to minimize your carry costs, and maximize your value.
"A Republic, if you can keep it". Benjamin Franklin. 1787. | Party affiliation: Vanguard. Religion: low-cost investing.

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by TravelGeek » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:00 pm

fortfun wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:01 pm
Using your figure of 2.75%, in 2016 Visa made 41.8 billion in swipe transactions (not counting fees, etc.). I think they are doing okay :)
Are we now talking about Visa? Different company from Chase, you know.

The point really is that they (Chase) are NOT making 3% on every swipe transaction. Or even 2.75%. And the point is that they are not making a profit at all on every transaction. And that some of their customers are less profitable or likely not profitable at all. My point was that Chase is doing what businesses are supposed to do when they figure out who they should do business with. And yes, Chase overall is very profitable, but that doesn't mean that you or I are entitled to their services because Bob down the road is making up for our use by paying 20% interest :twisted:

Enjoy it while you can - the game is changing and it's not getting better.

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by TravelGeek » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:05 pm

drawpoker wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:05 pm
Have 2 Chase cards, neither with a fee, but one never used. This year Chase sent a stern warning to use that one soon. Or else.

However, what irked me, Chase is also the name on my Amazon credit card, which gets used fairly often. So it appears to me that Chase keeps no comprehensive records, or cross-files of any kind. :shock: IOW, apparently they don't believe in one hand washing the other. :o

Last thing I want to do is jeopardize the Amazon charge card since, besides racking up points of its own, a year or so ago Amazon decided to let you use Citicard reward points to buy stuff. :D
Two separate accounts. Chase doesn't want to extend you a line of credit if you don't intend to actually use it, especially if you don't pay a fee.

Easy fix: use it occasionally. It's not difficult :D

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by THY4373 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:04 am

Alexa9 wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:22 pm
Chase has the best cards so it's no wonder they're abused.
Best cards is really debatable for some yes for others no. It really depends on what you are looking to accomplish, how you play the game and the volume you do. There are a couple of Chase cards I hold which I really like but honestly for me who is interested in premium international awards and some hotel nights I find Chase somewhat weak these days. They have some nice cards and some nice bonus categories but their UR program took a major hit from my perspective when Skypass went away. The only unique transfer partners they have that I care about are United and Hyatt. Hyatt is an excellent partner but limited footprint so somewhat limited in value for me but I do use them when I can. United is decent especially for avoiding fuel surcharges on some carriers but pricey points wise compared to other Star Alliance carriers available in other transferable point currencies. BA/Iberia/Aer Lingus are also MR award transfer partners and often with a transfer bonus there and they come with varying degrees of fuel surcharges. Virgin Atlantic is a partner with both MR and TYP but also has insane fuel charges and is mostly only good for getting to UK or if you are patient and potentially willing to overnight in London a few other places. That said VS does have some sweet spots on partner redemptions. Air France is also a partner with TYP and MR and recently introduced their "dynamic award pricing" so it is much harder to find a deal now and AF doesn't allow one to book their own F (unless you are an elite and then at an insane price). At this point I find both MR and TYP (egads) more valuable than UR for my travel purposes.
Last edited by THY4373 on Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by THY4373 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:10 am

Also this activity is not new in addition to the thread on FT there is a thread over on Reddit churning that has many data points that are honestly all over the place. I personally don't believe this review has much to do with churning, "abuse", whatever but rather seems to be more focused on credit risk. Both Chases' exposure to you and your overall credit exposure with other issuers. Other credit risk metrics such as average age of accounts seems to play a role as well. But honestly the DPs are all over the place.

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by cherijoh » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:41 am

drawpoker wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:05 pm
Have 2 Chase cards, neither with a fee, but one never used. This year Chase sent a stern warning to use that one soon. Or else.

However, what irked me, Chase is also the name on my Amazon credit card, which gets used fairly often. So it appears to me that Chase keeps no comprehensive records, or cross-files of any kind. :shock: IOW, apparently they don't believe in one hand washing the other. :o

Last thing I want to do is jeopardize the Amazon charge card since, besides racking up points of its own, a year or so ago Amazon decided to let you use Citicard reward points to buy stuff. :D

So guess I am obliged to put up with Chase and their churlish behavior. :|
The regulations enacted after the financial crisis require banks to maintain a certain amount of capital on the books in proportion to their total risk exposure - which includes the sum of all the maximum credit limits on the credit cards they offer. So if you have $40K of credit limit on 3 cards but are only using one of them, they can reduce their risk exposure (and capital requirements) without sacrificing any revenue by shutting down the cards you haven't bothered to use in a while. It is simply a good business practice, so I don't understand why you consider it "churlish".

To complicate matters, your Amazon card is considered an "affinity" card (just like the ones tied to specific airlines) which may or may not be managed by the same team that is evaluating your relationship with Chase.

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by Tim_S » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:50 am

I received a letter from Chase stating that they were going to close my account in 60 days if I didn't use the card. I have been with them since 1990. Not really a big deal to me since I payoff any balance as soon as I use the card anyway. The pretty much make zero :moneybag off my account.
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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by whodidntante » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:05 am

Alexa9 wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:22 pm
Chase has the best cards so it's no wonder they're abused. I see no problem with them denying the people that ruin it for everyone on CC forums: churners and manufactured spenders that milk it as much as possible.
New churners tend to hit Chase first because they have a rigid anti-churning rule (5/24). But saying their cards are best is a bit of a stretch. There are a lot of good offers out there.

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by mouses » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:14 am

drawpoker wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:05 pm
Have 2 Chase cards, neither with a fee, but one never used. This year Chase sent a stern warning to use that one soon. Or else.
At some point in the dim past, ebay or paypal required that one have a paypal credit card to make some ebay purchases. I probably am remembering the details wrong. Anyway, I got the card and then tossed it in a drawer, and a year or two later they cancelled it and in the mean time they did away with the requirement.

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by Chaconne » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:23 am

I don't even have a Chase card, but the other day I got an email from them saying they have "suspended my online access" due to "unusual activity." The email asks me to click on a link to log in to my account and unblock it. I don't think I'm going to do that! Anybody else get one of these?

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by THY4373 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:49 am

hesson11 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:23 am
I don't even have a Chase card, but the other day I got an email from them saying they have "suspended my online access" due to "unusual activity." The email asks me to click on a link to log in to my account and unblock it. I don't think I'm going to do that! Anybody else get one of these?
Almost 100% guaranteed to be a phish. Ask yourself why they would suspend your online access but then ask you to log in to restore access?

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by Alexa9 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:40 pm

whodidntante wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:05 am
But saying their cards are best is a bit of a stretch.
The Freedom, Sapphire, and Ink are considered the "Chase Trifecta." AMEX comes pretty close but Visa is more widely accepted abroad. Chase customer service is top notch and UR points are valuable especially 5x from the Freedom categories. If I had to pick one bank it would be Chase. I can't think of anything better. Can you?

https://www.asksebby.com/blog/is-the-ch ... nt-in-2018

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by THY4373 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:51 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:40 pm
The Freedom, Sapphire, and Ink are considered the "Chase Trifecta." AMEX comes pretty close but Visa is more widely accepted abroad. Chase customer service is top notch and UR points are valuable especially 5x from the Freedom categories. If I had to pick one bank it would be Chase. I can't think of anything better. Can you?

https://www.asksebby.com/blog/is-the-ch ... nt-in-2018
All depends on how much volume you are pushing and how you value the reward currencies. Chase is great for beginners and those who do moderate volume and as an adjunct for those of us doing high volume. It all depends on what you are doing. I hold none of the cards in the "Chase Trifecta" and other than maybe the Freedom Unlimited at some point I have no interest in those cards either. Just because some blogger who no doubt gets referral bonuses from Chase says they are the best thing since sliced bread doesn't necessarily make it so.

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by whodidntante » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:54 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:40 pm
whodidntante wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:05 am
But saying their cards are best is a bit of a stretch.
The Freedom, Sapphire, and Ink are considered the "Chase Trifecta." AMEX comes pretty close but Visa is more widely accepted abroad. Chase customer service is top notch and UR points are valuable especially 5x from the Freedom categories. If I had to pick one bank it would be Chase. I can't think of anything better. Can you?

https://www.asksebby.com/blog/is-the-ch ... nt-in-2018
I don't want to turn this into a "card measuring" contest but my statement that there are some good offers out there is fair. Some recent ones that come to mind are $1k Merrill Lynch card bonus (possibly my best yet all things considered), the 100,000 MR Amex Platinum, the 60,000 TYR Citi Premier, and $500+$100+$100 bonus from BoA Premium.

UR is pretty good when redeemed for personal travel with the right premium card. I travel a lot for business and find it difficult for me to get full value like that. Except for my Freedom 5% categories, I don't put a lot of ongoing spend on my Chase cards. Ink is a beast for manufactured spending, but I would probably not use it beyond that so it's a dangerous game to play. I realize some people get more value from the Chase offering than I can.

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by Chaconne » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:40 pm

THY4373 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:49 am
Almost 100% guaranteed to be a phish. Ask yourself why they would suspend your online access but then ask you to log in to restore access?
Hence my understated, "I don't think I'm going to do that!" Thanks! :D

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Re: Chase Closing Credit Card Accounts

Post by fortfun » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:57 pm

TravelGeek wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:00 pm
fortfun wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:01 pm
Using your figure of 2.75%, in 2016 Visa made 41.8 billion in swipe transactions (not counting fees, etc.). I think they are doing okay :)
Are we now talking about Visa? Different company from Chase, you know.

The point really is that they (Chase) are NOT making 3% on every swipe transaction. Or even 2.75%. And the point is that they are not making a profit at all on every transaction. And that some of their customers are less profitable or likely not profitable at all. My point was that Chase is doing what businesses are supposed to do when they figure out who they should do business with. And yes, Chase overall is very profitable, but that doesn't mean that you or I are entitled to their services because Bob down the road is making up for our use by paying 20% interest :twisted:

Enjoy it while you can - the game is changing and it's not getting better.
Agreed. Glad I just got the Captial One Savor approved a few days ago! :)

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