You Invest from JP Morgan [free trades offer]

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Bhairston2018
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You Invest from JP Morgan [free trades offer]

Post by Bhairston2018 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:04 am

[Thread merged into here, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

Saw this article on CNBC. Chase is about to lob a grenade into the investing arena, offering up to 100 trades for free in year 1 on their new investment app within the Chase app. They’ll offer Vanguard ETFs also. Personally, I wouldn’t trust Chase with my investment but that’s just me. Thoughts ??

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/21/jp-morg ... -free.html

thegr881
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You Invest from JP Morgan [free trades offer]

Post by thegr881 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:19 am

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/21/jp-morg ... -free.html

Free 100 trades 1st year. Free 100 trades forever if you have more than 10k in accounts with them. Free unlimited trades if you are private client (have more than 100k with them). Integrates right in to your current chase app/online chase website.

I am a chase private client.

I like what I am reading so far. No need to transfer $ from bank to vanguard or fidelity etc. Do it right there in chase app.

Launching next week.

What do others think?
Last edited by thegr881 on Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:24 am, edited 3 times in total.

bondsr4me
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan

Post by bondsr4me » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:22 am

I certainly will give this some serious consideration.

I am a fan of Jamie Dimon.

Gonna check this offer out.

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David Jay
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan

Post by David Jay » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:36 am

I'm certainly not going to make a decision based on a CNBC article. The app doesn't even roll out until next week.

Like all things financial, make sure you read the fine print...
Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future - Niels Bohr | To get the "risk premium", you really do have to take the risk - nisiprius

student
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan

Post by student » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:49 am

Interesting but I think I will stick with BoA/Merrill Edge.

arf30
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Re: Would you trust Chase with your investments?

Post by arf30 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:50 am

Don't think it'll have much impact, this is just a paid PR fluff piece from Chase - plenty of brokers already have free trade deals.

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jhfenton
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan

Post by jhfenton » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:51 am

It sounds like another welcome development in the ongoing purging of intermediary costs between investors and their investments. I am perfectly happy paying nothing to Vanguard, but I am pleased that I have other compelling options with Schwab, Fidelity, Merrill Edge, possibly now, JP Morgan, and others.

I would suggest editing the subject title to be a little more revealing, something like "JP Morgan to unveil new low/no-cost investment platform".

holyguacamole
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Re: Would you trust Chase with your investments?

Post by holyguacamole » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:52 am

I used to bank everything with Chase. Checking, Savings, Credit Cards, Auto Loans, etc. They gave someone complete access to my accounts because they knew my name and mothers maiden name (obviously I should have not been using my mothers actual maiden name, lesson learned). I was surprised someone could access so much information based on answering one security question. No social security number, no address, no nothing else. This person changed so much stuff in my accounts that it took weeks to get things back to normal. And the entire time Chase customer service was so rude to me about everything. After that I dropped all my accounts and moved to a local Credit Union. Best decision I've ever made.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:05 am

It's a step in the right direction. If I had been in this instead of Schwab, over the last year, I would have saved $4.95.

I guess they'd have to offer a pretty big $$ bounty for me to go there. I use Chase for credit cards at times, but that's about it.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

mega317
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Re: Would you trust Chase with your investments?

Post by mega317 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:11 am

Not a grenade to me, lots of ways to get free trades.

I don't know exactly how it works but Chase isn't holding the investments. They could fold and it wouldn't affect you. Unless you're talking about not trusting the website to work well or something.

AlohaJoe
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Re: Would you trust Chase with your investments?

Post by AlohaJoe » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:17 am

Bhairston2018 wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:04 am
Personally, I wouldn’t trust Chase with my investment but that’s just me. Thoughts ??
Why wouldn't you trust them? Do you think they are going to break Federal law and steal your investments?

afan
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Re: Would you trust Chase with your investments?

Post by afan » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:37 am

This does not give Chase any control over your investments and no discretion about what or when to trade.

But as others have noted, there is nothing special about free trades. All this says is that Chase had been hopelessly behind the times and now is making a small move to catch up. I see nothing to make Chase competitive with the likes of Vanguard, Fidelity or Schwab. The people who run those firms are not losing any sleep over this.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama

TheHouse7
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Re: Would you trust Chase with your investments?

Post by TheHouse7 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:41 am

I would never deal with Chase, pure evil :twisted: Pick U.S. Bank if large national brick and mortar is nessisary.
"PSX will always go up 20%, why invest in anything else?!" -Father-in-law early retired.

looking
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan

Post by looking » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:42 am

thegr881 wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:19 am
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/21/jp-morg ... -free.html

Free 100 trades 1st year. Free 100 trades forever if you have more than 10k in accounts with them. Free unlimited trades if you are private client (have more than 100k with them). Integrates right in to your current chase app/online chase website.

I am a chase private client.

I like what I am reading so far. No need to transfer $ from bank to vanguard or fidelity etc. Do it right there in chase app.

Launching next week.

What do others think?
i definitely check it out i love free if no string attached

G-Force
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Re: Would you trust Chase with your investments?

Post by G-Force » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:47 am

afan wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:37 am
I see nothing to make Chase competitive with the likes of Vanguard, Fidelity or Schwab. The people who run those firms are not losing any sleep over this.
Considering that Fidelity and Schwab don't offer free trades, I would say that Chase is becoming more competitive with discount brokerage firms.

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GoldStar
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan

Post by GoldStar » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:18 am

All my trades are already free. Of course that's because I only buy Mutual-Funds and trade-free ETFs from Vanguard, Fidelity, and Schwab.

MFInvestor
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Discount broker stocks dive on news J.P. Morgan Chase to offer free trading

Post by MFInvestor » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:19 am

[Merged this topic and its replies into the existing thread - moderator prudent]

"Discount broker stocks dive on news J.P. Morgan Chase to offer free trading "

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/disco ... 2018-08-21



Shares of discount brokers took a dive Tuesday, after J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. said it will launch a rival trading service next week with an even bigger discount--completely free.

The banking giant’s service, to be called “You Invest,” will be embedded in the current Chase mobile banking app and available on the website, and will launch some time next week.

The service, which requires “zero” minimum balance, will include 100 free trades in the first year for everyone, Darin Oduyoye, a spokesperson at J.P. Morgan Chase, told MarketWatch. Premier banking customers, with deposits of $15,000 or more, will be eligible for 100 free trades every year and private client customers, who have about $250,000 in deposits, will get unlimited free trades.

aristotelian
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan

Post by aristotelian » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:27 am

Very cool. Interesting tit-for-tat going on with Fidelity's Zero funds and Vanguard's free ETF's. Will be very interesting once the dust settles.

Now that transaction costs for trading are approaching zero, I think individual stocks are becoming much more defensible. I could see the increased opportunities for tax loss harvesting easily offsetting the diversification benefit of index funds.

msk
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Re: Discount broker stocks dive on news J.P. Morgan Chase to offer free trading

Post by msk » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:29 am

So I deposit $1 million, purchase VT and.... Nothing for 30 years. How do they make money out of me as a BH?

AZAttorney11
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan

Post by AZAttorney11 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:33 am

aristotelian wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:27 am
Very cool. Interesting tit-for-tat going on with Fidelity's Zero funds and Vanguard's free ETF's. Will be very interesting once the dust settles.

Now that transaction costs for trading are approaching zero, I think individual stocks are becoming much more defensible. I could see the increased opportunities for tax loss harvesting easily offsetting the diversification benefit of index funds.
You could also build your own S&P 500 index fund. Zero commissions and you'd have the ability to hold winners "forever" to avoid capital gains and dump losers to tax-loss harvest (and re-buy after the wash sale period is over to continue tracking the S&P 500).

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jeffyscott
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Re: Discount broker stocks dive on news J.P. Morgan Chase to offer free trading

Post by jeffyscott » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:35 am

msk wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:29 am
So I deposit $1 million, purchase VT and.... Nothing for 30 years. How do they make money out of me as a BH?
They don't, but they anticipate most people will not do that. Just as Fidelity, Schwab, etc. assume most people will not restrict themselves to the loss leaders.

This is like asking how have airlines made any money from me and my spouse, when every flight for nearly the last decade has been paid for with points that were mostly earned as credit card sign-up bonuses?
press on, regardless - John C. Bogle

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Re: Discount broker stocks dive on news J.P. Morgan Chase to offer free trading

Post by Nate79 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:41 am

The title makes it sound like they are offering free trading from now on but in fact it is quite limited offering. Almost like a promotion bonus offer of free trades in the first year. Sure, if you are some premier customer with them you can get the free trades every year but why such the big news causing discount broker stock prices to "dive"? :confused

Ragnoth
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan

Post by Ragnoth » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:45 am

The article talks about young people and Amazon... but this is pretty clearly modeled on the Merril Edge system, except with a lower minimum balance and dishing out trades on a annual basis rather than a monthly one.

If I was a new investor with ~$15k in a taxable account I would consider shifting over. But if you already have free trades elsewhere (e.g., “high” balance Merril Edge accounts), I don’t see people moving over unless they have sign-up bonuses or a truly stunning UI on their platform.

retiringwhen
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Re: Discount broker stocks dive on news J.P. Morgan Chase to offer free trading

Post by retiringwhen » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:17 am

Nate79 wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:41 am
The title makes it sound like they are offering free trading from now on but in fact it is quite limited offering. Almost like a promotion bonus offer of free trades in the first year. Sure, if you are some premier customer with them you can get the free trades every year but why such the big news causing discount broker stock prices to "dive"? :confused
It is message #72 that the business model of Discount Brokerages and related money management business is a dead-end. They are looking more and more like bookstores everyday......

You gotta find a new way to monetize your customer. Vanguard, now JP Morgan/Chase is pulling the supports out of one leg of the stool and Fidelity just pulled another leg on MF expense ratios... We'll see who survives after this is all played out. No one has a safe harbor, we'll see who can find a place, but it is looking harder every day. Their only hope is starting to look like uninformed investors.

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nisiprius
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Re: Would you trust Chase with your investments?

Post by nisiprius » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:18 am

(You mean "JPMorgan Chase," right?)

Eh, what do you mean, trust?

Trust them to obey SEC and FINRA regulations and not literally, outright just-plain steal my money (a la Madoff?) Yes. I would. I really would. Just as I would trust Edward Jones, or Wellstrade, or the little office in the local bank with the man who sells load funds.

Trust them to practice "what you see is what you get," in the sense of maintaining the same fees and benefits they started out with? Trust them not to offer teaser deals and discontinue them two years later? No.

Trust them to honestly serve investors doing Boglehead-style investing? To leave them alone to quietly rebalance their low-cost funds and ETFs? Trust them not to pester the living heck out of them with phone calls, and free meal seminars, and pitches for variable annuities, and extra-fee advisory services? No.

Trust them not mail me a quarterly newsletter telling me the advantages of diversifying my portfolio with liquid alts like the JPMorgan Multi-Manager Alternatives Fund with a 2.86% ER? No.

Trust them not to pitch the heck out of JPMorgan's own mutual funds? No.

Trust them as a source of investment advice? No.

If some euphemism should happen to me, would I trust them not to hard-sell my widow into buying all the junk I'd been successfully resisting for years? No.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

barnaclebob
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Re: Discount broker stocks dive on news J.P. Morgan Chase to offer free trading

Post by barnaclebob » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:33 am

Maybe they know most people who trade their own stocks probably wont even beat JP's high cost managed options and they'll be able to upsell them on that once they collect enough data.

ofckrupke
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan

Post by ofckrupke » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:34 am

thegr881 wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:19 am
What do others think?
It is probably more about retaining/growing than winning accounts, but this won't retain us unless there is also an umbrella provision wherein non-banking assets custodied at JPM count (with some nonzero multiplier anyway) toward fee waiver thresholds on the Premier banking products; otherwise, we'll be moving the safe-deposit box contents across the street to BofA next time the Merrill Edge bonus gets turned up to eleven.

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nisiprius
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan

Post by nisiprius » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:41 am

"Now that I've made all the trades I needed to make, what will I do with the eighty-nine I have left? I wouldn't want to waste them!"
You Invest users are 15 years younger on average than clients of the bank's human financial advisors...
https://youtu.be/qNWvdtt5sxs?t=47
Tom Lehrer wrote:When the shades of night are falling,
Comes a fellow ev'ryone knows:
It's the old dope peddler
Spreading joy wherever he goes.

He gives the kids free samples,
Because he knows full well,
That today's young innocent faces,
Will be tomorrow's .... clientele.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

SlowMovingInvestor
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan

Post by SlowMovingInvestor » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:43 am

If they do have a decent signup bonus, I would most definitely move IRA money over.

But not for Chase Private Client. That designation doesn't give me anything I want/need -- I hear it doesn't even get you around 5/24.

aristotelian
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan

Post by aristotelian » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:45 am

Ragnoth wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:45 am
The article talks about young people and Amazon... but this is pretty clearly modeled on the Merril Edge system, except with a lower minimum balance and dishing out trades on a annual basis rather than a monthly one.

If I was a new investor with ~$15k in a taxable account I would consider shifting over. But if you already have free trades elsewhere (e.g., “high” balance Merril Edge accounts), I don’t see people moving over unless they have sign-up bonuses or a truly stunning UI on their platform.
There is a dig in the article on people not trusting the latest "app of the month". Robinhood is a favorite of millenials.

There is some fine print. You need $15,000 in their checking account after the first year. Current rate for $15K is 0.01%. With savings accounts near 2%, that is effectively a $300 opportunity cost annually, so maybe this isn't so good. Edit: It appears that the $15K minimum is for combined brokerage/checking balance.
Last edited by aristotelian on Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bhairston2018
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Re: Would you trust Chase with your investments?

Post by Bhairston2018 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:46 am

nisiprius wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:18 am
(You mean "JPMorgan Chase," right?)

Eh, what do you mean, trust?

Trust them to obey SEC and FINRA regulations and not literally, outright just-plain steal my money (a la Madoff?) Yes. I would. I really would. Just as I would trust Edward Jones, or Wellstrade, or the little office in the local bank with the man who sells load funds.

Trust them to practice "what you see is what you get," in the sense of maintaining the same fees and benefits they started out with? Trust them not to offer teaser deals and discontinue them two years later? No.

Trust them to honestly serve investors doing Boglehead-style investing? To leave them alone to quietly rebalance their low-cost funds and ETFs? Trust them not to pester the living heck out of them with phone calls, and free meal seminars, and pitches for variable annuities, and extra-fee advisory services? No.

Trust them not mail me a quarterly newsletter telling me the advantages of diversifying my portfolio with liquid alts like the JPMorgan Multi-Manager Alternatives Fund with a 2.86% ER? No.

Trust them not to pitch the heck out of JPMorgan's own mutual funds? No.

Trust them as a source of investment advice? No.

If some euphemism should happen to me, would I trust them not to hard-sell my widow into buying all the junk I'd been successfully resisting for years? No.
These are some of the things that came to mind when I meant trust

jalbert
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Re: Discount broker stocks dive on news J.P. Morgan Chase to offer free trading

Post by jalbert » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:06 am

msk wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:29 am
So I deposit $1 million, purchase VT and.... Nothing for 30 years. How do they make money out of me as a BH?
The dividends will land in the settlement/sweep account where they likely will earn below market interest.
Risk is not a guarantor of return.

Freefun
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan

Post by Freefun » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:13 am

I’m waiting for a broker that will pay me to trade stocks (and have negative ER for funds).
Remember when you wanted what you currently have?

SlowMovingInvestor
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan

Post by SlowMovingInvestor » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:17 am

I just remembered that JPM came up with a really good signup bonus when they broke into the luxury card market with Sapphire Reserve 2 years back.

So maybe we can hope for a decent bonus here too.

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Re: Discount broker stocks dive on news J.P. Morgan Chase to offer free trading

Post by jeffyscott » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:28 am

retiringwhen wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:17 am
Their only hope is starting to look like uninformed investors.
I would guess one hope they may have is advisory services for a fee? I think about 1/2 of investors use an advisor, I assume most are not (yet) using free robo-advisors.
press on, regardless - John C. Bogle

retiringwhen
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Re: Discount broker stocks dive on news J.P. Morgan Chase to offer free trading

Post by retiringwhen » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:36 am

jeffyscott wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:28 am
retiringwhen wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:17 am
Their only hope is starting to look like uninformed investors.
I would guess one hope they may have is advisory services for a fee? I think about 1/2 of investors use an advisor, I assume most are not (yet) using free robo-advisors.
Advisory fees are tanking too, there are easily available services @ 0.3% AUM down from industry normal 1.0% in the past, at higher asset levels, those are even disappearing completely in some cases.

This cost is getting competed out too. There is going to be less and less margin there as well.

Someone needs to find a business model that can compete and provide profits, i think it is way too early to tell what or who. But remember if you aren't paying, then you are often the product. I sometimes wonder if that is the end result (probably a major component of the JP Morgan/Chase plan). More likely it will be the hidden/other costs on services and low-interest accounts where they make up the revenues ...

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dual
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Re: Discount broker stocks dive on news J.P. Morgan Chase to offer free trading

Post by dual » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:43 pm

jalbert wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:06 am
msk wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:29 am
So I deposit $1 million, purchase VT and.... Nothing for 30 years. How do they make money out of me as a BH?
The dividends will land in the settlement/sweep account where they likely will earn below market interest.

Also, I think they can lend your shares of VT and charge the short-seller interest.

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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan [free trades offer]

Post by LadyGeek » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:17 pm

I merged Bhairston2018's thread into the on-going discussion, which is in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum.

You need to be fast in this forum. The software sorts by time - Bhairston2018 posted 15 minutes earlier than thegr881, which is why the post is listed first.
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Re: Discount broker stocks dive on news J.P. Morgan Chase to offer free trading

Post by jeffyscott » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:24 pm

dual wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:43 pm
Also, I think they can lend your shares of VT and charge the short-seller interest.
I have no idea how securities lending works, but doesn't Vanguard engage in lending of the stocks in VT? Can they do that while another entity simultaneously lends the shares of VT?
press on, regardless - John C. Bogle

Fortune
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JP Morgan to offer free trades

Post by Fortune » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:57 pm

[Thread merged into here, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

News -
Media has reported JP Morgan to offer free trades via You Invest. Whats the catch?
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/21/jp-morg ... -free.html
https://www.wsj.com/articles/jpmorgan-t ... 1534865952

Is Vanguard driving brokers to compete in providing free ETFs.

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Re: JP Morgan to offer free trades

Post by Kalo » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:08 pm

I think it's part of a trend that's good for the investing public. But for a Boglehead such as myself, it's not very meaningful since I don't trade very often, and when I do it's always free anyway, since I'm only trading Vanguard ETF's. Most of my holdings are actually in Vanguard funds. I have a few holdings in ETF form, only because there is no Admiral version, or because I can't make the minimum for the Admiral version.

I do think there is a risk of losing out on spreads and/or poor order execution for those who do trade frequently, even if the commission is waved.

My goal is to never have to trade since I always get the feeling that I'm losing out on the spread. Wasn't it Buffet who said his favorite holding period was forever? That would be mine too if I didn't ever need to raise cash for re-balancing, and for those pesky personal living expenses that never seem to stop coming in.

Kalo
"When people say they have a high risk tolerance, what they really mean is that they are willing to make a lot of money." -- Ben Stein/Phil DeMuth - The Little Book of Bullet Proof Investing.

RIMDBogle
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan [free trades offer]

Post by RIMDBogle » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:20 pm

Who is the Winner in this offer?

Individual investor or ........?

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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan [free trades offer]

Post by LadyGeek » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:29 pm

I merged Fortune's thread into the on-going discussion. The combined thread is in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum (news).
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan

Post by bayview » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:48 pm

nisiprius wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:41 am
"Now that I've made all the trades I needed to make, what will I do with the eighty-nine I have left? I wouldn't want to waste them!"
You Invest users are 15 years younger on average than clients of the bank's human financial advisors...
https://youtu.be/qNWvdtt5sxs?t=47
Tom Lehrer wrote:When the shades of night are falling,
Comes a fellow ev'ryone knows:
It's the old dope peddler
Spreading joy wherever he goes.

He gives the kids free samples,
Because he knows full well,
That today's young innocent faces,
Will be tomorrow's .... clientele.
Multiple thumbs-up for the Tom Lehrer reference. For any Tom Lehrer reference, in fact. :beer
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri

bayview
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan

Post by bayview » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:48 pm

edit: dupe

—why do these happen, anyway? I thought the software prevented them, but it seems not.
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri

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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan [free trades offer]

Post by carguyny » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:59 pm

I was a chase client back when you could buy Vanguard Admiral shares for free.

I held some cash in a Vanguard Money Market fund as their savings interest rate was 0.02%. Sold some of the holdings one day and a little more 20 days later as I was using it to hold some cash ear marked for spending.

They sent me a letter telling me my account was frozen for 60 days for too frequent trading.

I moved my money out and closed all my accounts.

SlowMovingInvestor
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan [free trades offer]

Post by SlowMovingInvestor » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:28 am

carguyny wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:59 pm
I was a chase client back when you could buy Vanguard Admiral shares for free.

I held some cash in a Vanguard Money Market fund as their savings interest rate was 0.02%. Sold some of the holdings one day and a little more 20 days later as I was using it to hold some cash ear marked for spending.

They sent me a letter telling me my account was frozen for 60 days for too frequent trading.

I moved my money out and closed all my accounts.
What was the reason you opened the account in the first place ? Chase Private Client status or some other perk ?

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BoglePaul
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan [free trades offer]

Post by BoglePaul » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:35 am

My retired, middle-class, father walked into Chase to deposit a check. Someone from their "private client desk" walk up behind him and before his deposit was complete walked him to his desk. The representative then convinced my father to invest his savings account (rainy day fund) into a "conservative" chase mutual fund that consisted of 60% US total market and 40% US bond. The fund had a 2% annual fee and a 1% fee if sold before a year was over. This happened two years ago.

There is no free lunch. Chase will get their free (read: fee) back from their customers one way or another.

retiringwhen
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Re: You Invest from JP Morgan [free trades offer]

Post by retiringwhen » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:38 am

BoglePaul wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:35 am
My retired, middle-class, father walked into Chase to deposit a check. Someone from their "private client desk" walk up behind him and before his deposit was complete walked him to his desk. The representative then convinced my father to invest his savings account (rainy day fund) into a "conservative" chase mutual fund that consisted of 60% US total market and 40% US bond. The fund had a 2% annual fee and a 1% fee if sold before a year was over. This happened two years ago.

There is no free lunch. Chase will get their free (read: fee) back from their customers one way or another.
I hate these stories. It is not much better the carnival barkers on the midway at the county fair.....

My father is pretty savvy, but he is getting older and slower. someday, they'll snag him too I am afraid.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Discount broker stocks dive on news J.P. Morgan Chase to offer free trading

Post by BrandonBogle » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:40 am

jeffyscott wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:24 pm
dual wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:43 pm
Also, I think they can lend your shares of VT and charge the short-seller interest.
I have no idea how securities lending works, but doesn't Vanguard engage in lending of the stocks in VT? Can they do that while another entity simultaneously lends the shares of VT?
The Vanguard Fund engages in securities lending with the individual stocks comprising the fund. Vanguard's philosophy also has the profits from this lending go back to the fund, increasing its return.

Vanguard or Fidelity as broker can lend shares of the fund (not the individual stocks). I don't know if either do this, but if Fidelity does, I suspect they keep the profits (since they cannot put profits into Vanguard's fund).

In the new Fidelity "Free" funds, Fidelity is engaging in securities lending of the underlying stock, but has only said they share the profits with the fund, with no hard numbers on how much or how little is kept. Some view this as the "profit" of these new funds, so it's will be interesting when you see how well they perform compared to equivalent Vanguard funds in a couple years.

But to your original question, there is nothing inherently problematic in VT lending the shares it owns directly and other brokers lending shares of VT that their clients own simultaneously.

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