Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

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jhfenton
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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by jhfenton » Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:19 pm

stlutz wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:42 pm
I don't understand why they wouldn't just give a specific date. In the end its just a minor quibble, but this is bad customer service.
As anybody who works in a corporation knows, "August" means August 1 to product management and to technology is means August 31st--of next year. :D
+1 I'm assuming that's why they originally left the date unspecified, because they weren't sure exactly when the back-end systems would be ready to distinguish a commission-free third category of tradable equities.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by indexfundfan » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:55 am

jhfenton wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:19 pm
stlutz wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:42 pm
I don't understand why they wouldn't just give a specific date. In the end its just a minor quibble, but this is bad customer service.
As anybody who works in a corporation knows, "August" means August 1 to product management and to technology is means August 31st--of next year. :D
+1 I'm assuming that's why they originally left the date unspecified, because they weren't sure exactly when the back-end systems would be ready to distinguish a commission-free third category of tradable equities.
It will be sad that a company the size of Vanguard cannot put a specific roll-out date due to uncertainty in their back-end systems. :shock:
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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by retiringwhen » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:05 am

indexfundfan wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:55 am
It will be sad that a company the size of Vanguard cannot put a specific roll-out date due to uncertainty in their back-end systems. :shock:
I will pose a slightly different possibility. Maybe they were tipped off on some of the other changes coming (like the Fido announcement this week) and decided to front-run the rollout without all the pieces in place.

Fido clearly did the opposite, they announced a change that was implemented at the time of announcement with the fee reductions and the filing of the new funds.

All I can say is, these are very competitive times.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by jhfenton » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:16 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:17 pm
I sent a very polite message asking for a credit for the $2 and asking when the system would be updated to reflect the August commission-free ETFs promised on their website.
Just over 24 hours and no response to my message.

I'm not really surprised. I learned very quickly as a new customer a few years ago that response times to messages were abysmal, while phone calls got immediate results. But I was hoping that (a) things had improved or (b) being Voyager Select would warrant a faster response.

I did not place any new ETF orders today, but when I put in a test order, the normal $2 commission was still showing.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by JamesSFO » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:29 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:16 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:17 pm
I sent a very polite message asking for a credit for the $2 and asking when the system would be updated to reflect the August commission-free ETFs promised on their website.
Just over 24 hours and no response to my message.

I'm not really surprised. I learned very quickly as a new customer a few years ago that response times to messages were abysmal, while phone calls got immediate results. But I was hoping that (a) things had improved or (b) being Voyager Select would warrant a faster response.

I did not place any new ETF orders today, but when I put in a test order, the normal $2 commission was still showing.
Again this is not launched you should not expect it to be $0. (They might, as a courtesy, waive one trading commission.)

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by jhfenton » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:06 pm

JamesSFO wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:29 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:16 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:17 pm
I sent a very polite message asking for a credit for the $2 and asking when the system would be updated to reflect the August commission-free ETFs promised on their website.
Just over 24 hours and no response to my message.

I'm not really surprised. I learned very quickly as a new customer a few years ago that response times to messages were abysmal, while phone calls got immediate results. But I was hoping that (a) things had improved or (b) being Voyager Select would warrant a faster response.

I did not place any new ETF orders today, but when I put in a test order, the normal $2 commission was still showing.
Again this is not launched you should not expect it to be $0. (They might, as a courtesy, waive one trading commission.)
Yes and no. Yes, I knew what I was doing. No, there is absolutely nothing anywhere in writing that says it isn't launched yet. The commissions page still says "In August" these will be free without any qualification whatsoever. Well, we are in August. Even CNBC was originally fooled into reporting yesterday that it had launched.

Again, I knew what I was doing, but still, Vanguard isn't wholly innocent.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by triceratop » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:27 pm

I appreciate the tongue-in-cheek joke you’re playing on Vanguard, jhfenton. ;)
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by jhfenton » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:20 pm

triceratop wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:27 pm
I appreciate the tongue-in-cheek joke you’re playing on Vanguard, jhfenton. ;)
Thanks. And I did get someone to cross the spread to sell 100 shares to me at the bid. The bid and ask were pretty stable yesterday afternoon at 26.35/26.41, so I put in an order at the bid. As far as I noticed, the spread didn't budge for a couple of hours after that, and I hadn't gotten a trade execution notice, so I was surprised when I looked at around 3:30 that I had a partial execution of 100 shares. So I would still come out ahead paying $2.00 or $0.02 per share compared to paying the $0.06 spread. (And it traded higher today.)

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by TimeRunner » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:38 pm

Not to sidetrack, but using Vanguard as a trading platform seems pretty funky, which is odd given that Vanguard is pushing mutual fund holders towards converting to brokerage accounts, but then not providing the typical research tools one would find on more mature trading platforms (Fido, Schwab, TDA, E-Trade, etc.) If VG wants to go in the brokerage direction and offer non-VG ETFs, they are going to have to step up their platform or they will atrophy. With competitors having walk-in offices, very good IT, very good customer support...well, Vanguard has a ways to go to catch up. It's like watching Walmart of five years ago get eaten by Amazon. :|
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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by TIAX » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:47 pm

TimeRunner wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:38 pm
Not to sidetrack, but using Vanguard as a trading platform seems pretty funky, which is odd given that Vanguard is pushing mutual fund holders towards converting to brokerage accounts, but then not providing the typical research tools one would find on more mature trading platforms (Fido, Schwab, TDA, E-Trade, etc.) If VG wants to go in the brokerage direction and offer non-VG ETFs, they are going to have to step up their platform or they will atrophy. With competitors having walk-in offices, very good IT, very good customer support...well, Vanguard has a ways to go to catch up. It's like watching Walmart of five years ago get eaten by Amazon. :|
You don't really need research tools if you're buying ETFs.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by TimeRunner » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:52 pm

TIAX wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:47 pm
TimeRunner wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:38 pm
Not to sidetrack, but using Vanguard as a trading platform seems pretty funky, which is odd given that Vanguard is pushing mutual fund holders towards converting to brokerage accounts, but then not providing the typical research tools one would find on more mature trading platforms (Fido, Schwab, TDA, E-Trade, etc.) If VG wants to go in the brokerage direction and offer non-VG ETFs, they are going to have to step up their platform or they will atrophy. With competitors having walk-in offices, very good IT, very good customer support...well, Vanguard has a ways to go to catch up. It's like watching Walmart of five years ago get eaten by Amazon. :|
You don't really need research tools if you're buying ETFs.
We'll see what Vanguard offers up when they flip the switch and then we'll know.
“Some depart to remain.”

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by jhfenton » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:59 pm

TimeRunner wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:38 pm
Not to sidetrack, but using Vanguard as a trading platform seems pretty funky, which is odd given that Vanguard is pushing mutual fund holders towards converting to brokerage accounts, but then not providing the typical research tools one would find on more mature trading platforms (Fido, Schwab, TDA, E-Trade, etc.)
I don't think Vanguard particularly wants traders as customers. I think most of us either have very narrow uses in mind for commission-free non-Vanguard ETFs or are simply excited about it on principle.

Most of us will probably use it for (1) tax-loss harvesting partners or (2) a fund or two for which Vanguard doesn't offer an equivalent but which fill a hole in a long-term plan.

I only have the one ETF right now that I plan to buy and add to. And I mostly use Admiral Shares anyway where available, in preference to Vanguard's own ETFs.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by JamesSFO » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:21 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:06 pm
Yes and no. Yes, I knew what I was doing. No, there is absolutely nothing anywhere in writing that says it isn't launched yet. The commissions page still says "In August" these will be free without any qualification whatsoever. Well, we are in August. Even CNBC was originally fooled into reporting yesterday that it had launched.

Again, I knew what I was doing, but still, Vanguard isn't wholly innocent.
Seriously? Is there anything on Vanguard's pages that says it IS launched?

In fact, you seem to be ingoring that Vanguard investor landing home page shows "Coming Soon" prominently.

Your statement about the Commissions page ignores the "See what's coming" under the 1800 comission free ETFs as well.

Also, you were warned before you submitted the transaction that it was not going to be $0.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by jhfenton » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:34 pm

JamesSFO wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:21 pm
Seriously? Is there anything on Vanguard's pages that says it IS launched?

In fact, you seem to be ingoring that Vanguard investor landing home page shows "Coming Soon" prominently.

Your statement about the Commissions page ignores the "See what's coming" under the 1800 comission free ETFs as well.

Also, you were warned before you submitted the transaction that it was not going to be $0.
Sigh. I’m sorry if you are personally offended. But which of my posts in this thread the last two days gives you the idea that I didn’t know exactly what I was doing?

If you are still frustrated, I can recommend the web comic xkcd as an excellent distraction. They say there is an xkcd for every situation. I am particularly fond of #386.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by JamesSFO » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:38 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:34 pm
JamesSFO wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:21 pm
Seriously? Is there anything on Vanguard's pages that says it IS launched?

In fact, you seem to be ingoring that Vanguard investor landing home page shows "Coming Soon" prominently.

Your statement about the Commissions page ignores the "See what's coming" under the 1800 comission free ETFs as well.

Also, you were warned before you submitted the transaction that it was not going to be $0.
Sigh. I’m sorry if you are personally offended. But which of my posts in this thread the last two days gives you the idea that I didn’t know exactly what I was doing?

If you are still frustrated, I can recommend the web comic xkcd as an excellent distraction. They say there is an xkcd for every situation. I am particularly fond of #386.
Always a good XKCD, I'm not personally offended. Relatedly humor, tone, etc., don't come across well on the net. It is hard to know whether you are amused by this, actively annoyed, or even actively claiming you were tricked. Thus my "seriously"

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by jhfenton » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:49 pm

JamesSFO wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:38 pm
Always a good XKCD, I'm not personally offended. Relatedly humor, tone, etc., don't come across well on the net. It is hard to know whether you are amused by this, actively annoyed, or even actively claiming you were tricked. Thus my "seriously"
:sharebeer Not tricked. Just mildly annoyed at Vanguard.

And now I really am going to bed. It is past my bedtime. :beer

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by JamesSFO » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:57 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:49 pm
JamesSFO wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:38 pm
Always a good XKCD, I'm not personally offended. Relatedly humor, tone, etc., don't come across well on the net. It is hard to know whether you are amused by this, actively annoyed, or even actively claiming you were tricked. Thus my "seriously"
:sharebeer Not tricked. Just mildly annoyed at Vanguard.

And now I really am going to bed. It is past my bedtime. :beer
:sharebeer sleep well

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by spdoublebass » Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:35 am

I wish they would at least release a list of what they will offer commission free.
I'm trying to think, but nothing happens

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by jhfenton » Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:39 am

spdoublebass wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:35 am
I wish they would at least release a list of what they will offer commission free.
If it's not leveraged, inverse, or something akin to a VIX ETF, it should be on the "list." In fact, there is more likely to be a list of exclusions than a list of inclusions.

I wish they would respond to messages in a timely fashion. It's been 44 hours, 32 minutes without a response.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by stan1 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:38 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:39 am

I wish they would respond to messages in a timely fashion. It's been 44 hours, 32 minutes without a response.
Might be intentional. Vanguard might prefer you buy Vanguard ETFs at another brokerage who will provide response times that better meet your needs rather than incurring the expense of a heavily staffed help desk system that can respond quickly.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by jhfenton » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:51 pm

stan1 wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:38 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:39 am

I wish they would respond to messages in a timely fashion. It's been 44 hours, 32 minutes without a response.
Might be intentional. Vanguard might prefer you buy Vanguard ETFs at another brokerage who will provide response times that better meet your needs rather than incurring the expense of a heavily staffed help desk system that can respond quickly.
The problem with having a message system that they don't respond to is that it forces people to call in instead, which probably requires more manpower.

About the only reason I usually need customer service is to convert VFSVX (Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small Cap) shares to VSS ETF shares. (There are no admiral shares.) And that requires a phone call.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by retiringwhen » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:39 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:51 pm
stan1 wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:38 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:39 am

I wish they would respond to messages in a timely fashion. It's been 44 hours, 32 minutes without a response.
Might be intentional. Vanguard might prefer you buy Vanguard ETFs at another brokerage who will provide response times that better meet your needs rather than incurring the expense of a heavily staffed help desk system that can respond quickly.
The problem with having a message system that they don't respond to is that it forces people to call in instead, which probably requires more manpower.

About the only reason I usually need customer service is to convert VFSVX (Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small Cap) shares to VSS ETF shares. (There are no admiral shares.) And that requires a phone call.
I am curious, I have never seen a response take more than 48 hours. I am Flagship level... The only one that took that long was a complicated technical question that probably required back-office intervention (web page issue, what else.) BTW, in a recent survey from Vanguard on customer service, I listed the messaging systems technical weaknesses as my #1 complaint with #2 being unclear date/time stamps for when prices and balances are updated on the website.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by Whakamole » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:52 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:51 pm
stan1 wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:38 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:39 am

I wish they would respond to messages in a timely fashion. It's been 44 hours, 32 minutes without a response.
Might be intentional. Vanguard might prefer you buy Vanguard ETFs at another brokerage who will provide response times that better meet your needs rather than incurring the expense of a heavily staffed help desk system that can respond quickly.
The problem with having a message system that they don't respond to is that it forces people to call in instead, which probably requires more manpower.

About the only reason I usually need customer service is to convert VFSVX (Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small Cap) shares to VSS ETF shares. (There are no admiral shares.) And that requires a phone call.
I don't see why they don't have admiral shares yet. It would probably be cheaper than handling all the calls asking to convert VFSVX shares to VSS shares.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by jhfenton » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:14 pm

retiringwhen wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:39 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:51 pm
stan1 wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:38 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:39 am

I wish they would respond to messages in a timely fashion. It's been 44 hours, 32 minutes without a response.
Might be intentional. Vanguard might prefer you buy Vanguard ETFs at another brokerage who will provide response times that better meet your needs rather than incurring the expense of a heavily staffed help desk system that can respond quickly.
The problem with having a message system that they don't respond to is that it forces people to call in instead, which probably requires more manpower.

About the only reason I usually need customer service is to convert VFSVX (Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small Cap) shares to VSS ETF shares. (There are no admiral shares.) And that requires a phone call.
I am curious, I have never seen a response take more than 48 hours. I am Flagship level... The only one that took that long was a complicated technical question that probably required back-office intervention (web page issue, what else.) BTW, in a recent survey from Vanguard on customer service, I listed the messaging systems technical weaknesses as my #1 complaint with #2 being unclear date/time stamps for when prices and balances are updated on the website.
They responded after 48 hours and 21 minutes with a canned response that included a lot of the same language from their original press release. It was utter garbage, and it clearly wasn't tailored to my question.

I think this was the first time I had used the message system in nearly 3 years. When I first moved our accounts over, I tried to use the message system to get help with a bug in their system that I cleverly uncovered. It took 2-3 days for each response, and I quickly gave up and switched to phone calls.

I was hoping that since this was a pure, non-technical customer service question, I would get a quick response. Not so, even for a Voyager Select customer. (With most new money going into 401(k)s and an HSA elsewhere, we won't be hitting Flagship any time soon.)
Whakamole wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:52 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:51 pm
About the only reason I usually need customer service is to convert VFSVX (Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small Cap) shares to VSS ETF shares. (There are no admiral shares.) And that requires a phone call.
I don't see why they don't have admiral shares yet. It would probably be cheaper than handling all the calls asking to convert VFSVX shares to VSS shares.
You would think so. :beer

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by caklim00 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:30 am

Anyone know when Vanguard is going to do commission free etf trades. Just re-opened my vanguard account and was disappointed to still see $7 trades.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by CyberBob » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:31 am

caklim00 wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:30 am
Anyone know when Vanguard is going to do commission free etf trades. Just re-opened my vanguard account and was disappointed to still see $7 trades.
Vanguard ETF’s are commission-free now. The rest will be in ‘August’ according to their news release.
https://investornews.vanguard/coming-in ... investors/

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by jhfenton » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:37 am

I received a call this morning from a Vanguard "executive response" person--or something like that. He apologized for the delay in responding to my second message, but by the time someone read my message and forwarded it to someone for review, it added a couple more days to the usual 48-hour timeline. I had pretty much given up. Two short, polite messages was already more than $2 of my time. I just wanted them to realize that they had handled the announcement and rollout poorly.

Upshot: They do realize there was a lot of confusion caused by their vague press release and marketing copy. They still don't have a date for availability. They are crediting my $2.00 commission.

We had a nice chat, and he is also going to pass along my renewed request for Admiral Shares for All-World ex-US Small Cap (VSS/VFSVX). :beer I will not be holding my breath.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by outbackcountry » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:36 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:37 am
I received a call this morning from a Vanguard "executive response" person--or something like that. He apologized for the delay in responding to my second message, but by the time someone read my message and forwarded it to someone for review, it added a couple more days to the usual 48-hour timeline. I had pretty much given up. Two short, polite messages was already more than $2 of my time. I just wanted them to realize that they had handled the announcement and rollout poorly.

Upshot: They do realize there was a lot of confusion caused by their vague press release and marketing copy. They still don't have a date for availability. They are crediting my $2.00 commission.

We had a nice chat, and he is also going to pass along my renewed request for Admiral Shares for All-World ex-US Small Cap (VSS/VFSVX). :beer I will not be holding my breath.
Looks like a messed up rollout.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by tfb » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:21 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:37 am
They still don't have a date for availability.
I think it's a harder problem than marketing people realized. How do you know which ticker is an ETF, not a stock? If they just go by a white list there will be a lag when new ETFs are being created every day. Invariably a customer will say "Hey that's an ETF. How come I'm charged a commission?"
Harry Sit, taking a break from the forums.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by looking » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:55 pm

walletless wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:43 pm
This should also accelerate the rate of migration from mutual fund accounts to their new brokerage account. Many have resisted in the past due to so little benefits (and more pains), but this changes the requisition for some.
when is gonna appear announcing

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by darkhorse346 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:47 am

Morningstar, August 9, 2018

Christine Benz and Ben Johnson, CFA interview titled "Looking Past the Fidelity Zero Headlines":

Johnson: "That's right, there are so many different bullet points in this announcement it's difficult to keep track of them. I think one that got buried quite deeply was the fact that it's commission-free ETF menu has now expanded from 95 ETFs previously to 240, the bulk of those being added at the margin being iShares ETFs. What you see in sum, is really to put it in its context is a competitive response on Fidelity's part. What we saw if we go back to February of last year is that Schwab made similar moves within its own index mutual fund lineup, repricing a number of those, reducing investment minimums across the board to offer a far more compelling offering that's available to a far larger number of its investors. Schwab's also over the years been gradually expanding its own commission-free ETF menu. More recently what we saw is that Vanguard effectively opened the floodgates on its proprietary commission-free ETF menu offering virtually any ETF that investors on their platform could want to trade on the commission-free basis that's effective as of Aug. 8 of this year."

August 8th?.... :shock:

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by jhfenton » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:21 am

darkhorse346 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:47 am
August 8th?.... :shock:
I wonder where Benz and Johnson came up with August 8. Did Vanguard give them that date and miss it?

Based on a quick test order, they are still not commission-free this morning.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by Whakamole » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:14 pm

darkhorse346 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:47 am
August 8th?.... :shock:
Perhaps they mean August 8th using the Julian calendar - that's not for another 11 days: https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?country=23

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by triceratop » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:25 pm

Whakamole wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:14 pm
darkhorse346 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:47 am
August 8th?.... :shock:
Perhaps they mean August 8th using the Julian calendar - that's not for another 11 days: https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?country=23
A dangerous association given the history of Julius increasing the price of wheat, not decreasing it.
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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by ray.james » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:16 pm

The golden age for investors is here.
When in doubt, http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79939

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darkhorse346
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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by darkhorse346 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:46 pm

Has anyone seen any official communications from Vanguard on the August 8th start date?

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by car733 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:17 pm

I still see

Code: Select all

Commission $7.00

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by tj » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:45 am

Jiu Jitsu Fighter wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:31 am
If they offer the following, I'll consider moving my Schwab accounts to Vanguard:

MDYV - State Street S&P 400 Mid-cap Value
SLYV - State Street S&P 600 Small-cap Value
FNDC - Schwab International Developed Markets Small Fundamental
FNDE - Schwab Emerging Market Fundamental

Curious as to what Vanguard would do with their S&P funds (excluding VOO S&P 500). For example, Vanguard offers VIOV (S&P 600 Small-cap Value) which has a paltry AUM and average along with a 20 bps exp. ratio compared to the identical State Street version SLYV which has a higher AUM and average daily volume along with a 15 bps exp. ratio. I guess we'll find out in August.
Doesn't IJS have even more volume?

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by unclescrooge » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:49 am

livesoft wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:10 am
Choy wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:09 am
I’ve been hesitant to use Vanguard for taxable brokerage accounts because I feel they have issues with record keeping along with other general issues. I’ve had money go “missing” for a period of time.

Anyone else have concerns?
Of course, I am concerned.
Nothing is free in life. Will their customer service decline further?

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by jhfenton » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:24 am

darkhorse346 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:46 pm
Has anyone seen any official communications from Vanguard on the August 8th start date?
I spoke to an “Executive Correspondent” on Thursday (August 9), and he said they had no effective date to announce yet.

And like car733, I still see my usual commission on any draft orders.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by darkhorse346 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:02 am

I would think that Vanguard would make a big deal once the switch if flipped.

A lot of their website content for personal investors would have to be updated once these commission-free ETFs become available.

Morningstar would not have dreamed up the planned August 8th start date. The fact that that date has come and gone and no changes at Vanguard is concerning.

Delay could be from a variety of reasons, e.g., IT problems, Fidelity's announcements from last week, etc. Once the switch is flipped, its critical that it roll out flawlessly.

But we are still in August, so I'm going to sit tight and see what happens.

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Any word on when ETFs will be commission free at Vanguard?

Post by saver9029 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:44 pm

Interested if anyone has word on when (I assume still this month) the 1800 ETFs will be commission free at Vanguard? Thanks, I'm interested in buying some. Also, if you want to give your favorite ETF as well, that'd be good. Mine's BND.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:56 pm

saver9029, Welcome! I moved your post into the on-going discussion.
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Re: Any word on when ETFs will be commission free at Vanguard?

Post by jhfenton » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:24 pm

saver9029 wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:44 pm
Interested if anyone has word on when (I assume still this month) the 1800 ETFs will be commission free at Vanguard? Thanks, I'm interested in buying some. Also, if you want to give your favorite ETF as well, that'd be good. Mine's BND.
They don't have a date that they are sharing publicly. I received a call back in regards to a message I sent, and the gentleman only knew sometime in August.

My favorite ETF was and is VSS (Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small Cap). Together with the mutual fund share class VFSVX, it is our largest holding by a pretty good margin.

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Re: 1800 Commission-Free ETFs

Post by AlphaLess » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:32 pm

zeugmite wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:32 pm
I wonder how this gets paid for. Fund supermarket access fees by providers? Payment for order flow? Internalization, i.e. market-making (most likely)?
Stock trading is practically free.
Commissions are only there to support the brokerage IT and operational costs.
If Vanguard is managing to support themselves by the expense ratios levied on their trillion dollar AUM, then offering ETFs commissions free is not really a big deal.

In terms of the mechanism of execution: yes, internalization is the way to go. Most (if not all) retail brokerages do not have the infrastructure to actually handle customer orders. So they route to the internalizers.

For qualifying orders, internalizers have good execution quality, in general.

EDIT: commissions are a big deal to those brokerages that: (A) do not have large AUMs, and (B) offer a lot of technology tools (that are mostly geared for trading).

E.g.,: E*Trade.
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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by celia » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:49 pm

I put in an order today to buy a non-Vanguard ETF and the commission was still shown.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by aristotelian » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:09 am

Anyone hearing any news on this? I am in need of a commission free EM ETF to harvest some of today's big drop.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by jhfenton » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:39 am

aristotelian wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:09 am
Anyone hearing any news on this? I am in need of a commission free EM ETF to harvest some of today's big drop.
No news. :?

I bought some VWO earlier to rebalance back to baseline.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by ofckrupke » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:47 am

aristotelian wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:09 am
Anyone hearing any news on this? I am in need of a commission free EM ETF to harvest some of today's big drop.
Now that's penny wisdom.

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Re: Vanguard to offer non-Vanguard ETFs commission-free

Post by caklim00 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:10 pm

I wonder what the problem is. You think they would be all over this especially given fidelity and their zero cost index announcements.

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