Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

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Lieutenant.Columbo
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by Lieutenant.Columbo » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:37 am

mpsz wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:46 am
I'm moving my HSA Bank + TDA to Lively + TDA. The $2.50 comes from your checking account as posters above have mentioned -- $2.50/mo in regular dollars is substantially better than $5.50 in tax-advantaged dollars. This isn't highlighted anywhere near enough!
E5797 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:50 pm
Is there a way to pay the HSA Bank fees without having them come out of your tax protected account? Like sending in a check or paying from another account?
TropikThunder wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:11 pm
That's an excellent question, but I don't know the answer. If there is no way to avoid the fee coming from the HSA balance, then that's another big point in favor of Lively.
with Saturna/Pershing HSA account, the $24.95/yr ($10 = fee, $14.95 = trade commission) for one trade/yr + reinvesting into VSIAX + account maintenance comes out of the pre-tax HSA contribution.
Lt. Columbo: Well, what do you know. Here I am talking with some of the smartest people in the world, and I didn't even notice!

skylar
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by skylar » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:17 am

TropikThunder wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:11 pm
E5797 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:50 pm
Is there a way to pay the HSA Bank fees without having them come out of your tax protected account? Like sending in a check or paying from another account?
That's an excellent question, but I don't know the answer. If there is no way to avoid the fee coming from the HSA balance, then that's another big point in favor of Lively.
I asked HSA Bank a few years ago whether one could do this, and they told me that it used to be possible, but isn't any longer.

aristotelian
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by aristotelian » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:49 am

skylar wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:17 am
TropikThunder wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:11 pm
E5797 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:50 pm
Is there a way to pay the HSA Bank fees without having them come out of your tax protected account? Like sending in a check or paying from another account?
That's an excellent question, but I don't know the answer. If there is no way to avoid the fee coming from the HSA balance, then that's another big point in favor of Lively.
I asked HSA Bank a few years ago whether one could do this, and they told me that it used to be possible, but isn't any longer.
Lively is $30 annually for the same TD investing platform, and they deduct the fees from your linked savings account. Nothing comes out of the HSA itself.

dalmatiandan
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by dalmatiandan » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:48 am

skylar wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:17 am
TropikThunder wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:11 pm
E5797 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:50 pm
Is there a way to pay the HSA Bank fees without having them come out of your tax protected account? Like sending in a check or paying from another account?
That's an excellent question, but I don't know the answer. If there is no way to avoid the fee coming from the HSA balance, then that's another big point in favor of Lively.
I asked HSA Bank a few years ago whether one could do this, and they told me that it used to be possible, but isn't any longer.
Another data point for the community; I happened to ask this question of HSA Bank last week, they replied: Unfortunately, you can not pre-pay fees. This feature may be available in the future.

Dan

mpsz
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by mpsz » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:09 pm

broslami wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:35 pm
mpsz wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:46 am
I'm moving my HSA Bank + TDA to Lively + TDA. The $2.50 comes from your checking account as posters above have mentioned -- $2.50/mo in regular dollars is substantially better than $5.50 in tax-advantaged dollars. This isn't highlighted anywhere near enough!
I'm trying to do the same thing but after a month and a half the transfer is still pending......
I'm also trying, going on 4 weeks now. HSA Bank is turning this into a nasty breakup.

HSA Bank says this is expected to take 6 - 8 weeks when there's a brokerage account involved, even if it is not an "in-kind" transfer. I liquidated the brokerage account and transferred it back to the HSA cash account before I started the transfer, and HSA Bank removed $0.02 in accrued interest from TD Ameritrade over two weeks ago. Meanwhile, I have thousands of dollars sitting in cash earning 0.05% interest.

Honestly, I suspect they want to collect another month of account fees, in addition to the transfer-out fee. They cannot do this over chat but will waive one month's fees if you call. Yay?

Kaufmanrider
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by Kaufmanrider » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:48 pm

I guess I am lucky, my Health Insurance provider covers my HSA Bank fees. :D

I logged onto my account to check investing fees and open a TD Ameritrade Account as I just started my HSA plan this year. I found this statement on my investment options page: $0.00 monthly investment service fee may be charged by HSA Bank.

TropikThunder
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by TropikThunder » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:12 pm

mpsz wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:09 pm
I'm also trying, going on 4 weeks now. HSA Bank is turning this into a nasty breakup.

HSA Bank says this is expected to take 6 - 8 weeks when there's a brokerage account involved, even if it is not an "in-kind" transfer. I liquidated the brokerage account and transferred it back to the HSA cash account before I started the transfer, and HSA Bank removed $0.02 in accrued interest from TD Ameritrade over two weeks ago. Meanwhile, I have thousands of dollars sitting in cash earning 0.05% interest.

Honestly, I suspect they want to collect another month of account fees, in addition to the transfer-out fee. They cannot do this over chat but will waive one month's fees if you call. Yay?
Did they (or someone else) advise that you shouldn't do an in-kind transfer? When I moved my account from HSA Bank/TDA to Lively/TDA, the in-kind transfer of my stock ETF only took 2 days. I had zero cash in the HSA Bank account itself so I don't know how long that would have taken, but others have noted that in-kind transfers are fast (at least in the Lively thread).
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=228522&hilit=lively

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jhfenton
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by jhfenton » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:23 pm

mpsz wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:09 pm
I'm also trying, going on 4 weeks now. HSA Bank is turning this into a nasty breakup.

HSA Bank says this is expected to take 6 - 8 weeks when there's a brokerage account involved, even if it is not an "in-kind" transfer. I liquidated the brokerage account and transferred it back to the HSA cash account before I started the transfer, and HSA Bank removed $0.02 in accrued interest from TD Ameritrade over two weeks ago. Meanwhile, I have thousands of dollars sitting in cash earning 0.05% interest.

Honestly, I suspect they want to collect another month of account fees, in addition to the transfer-out fee. They cannot do this over chat but will waive one month's fees if you call. Yay?
You have my condolences. I would have gone ballistic by now. :annoyed

For all my complaints about Fifth-Third and HSAs, they are fantastic at trustee-to-trustee transfers. On Friday morning, I emailed Lively and gave them the info to prepare another quarterly transfer. Friday afternoon Lively emailed me the form for e-signature. Either late on Friday Ohio time or on Monday, they faxed the transfer form to Fifth-Third. On Tuesday (yesterday) morning, the requested amount had disappeared from my Fifth-Third HSA. Based on previous experience, Fifth-Third mailed the check on Tuesday, and it will show up at Lively on Friday (if they or their bank are open) or Monday evening.

There is zero reason a transfer should take 6 - 8 weeks.

krick
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by krick » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:26 am

I have an HSA through Optum Bank as required by my employer to receive their contribution.

Optum has three different account "types" that you can choose from. I believe you can contact them and have it switched at any time.

Health eAccess account: $1.00 monthly maintenance fee (waived if cash balance is over $500) + $3.00 monthly investment fee
Health eSaver account: $3.00 monthly maintenance fee (waived if cash balance is over $5000) + $0.00 monthly investment fee
Health eInvestor account: $3.00 monthly maintenance fee (waived if cash balance is over $5000) + $2.50 monthly investment fee

The eSaver and eInvestor accounts earn a small amount of interest on the cash balance. The eAccess account doesn't earn interest.

For cash balances between $5,000 and $14,999.99, the current interest rate is 0.2% for eSaver and 0.1% for eInvestor.

So I chose the "eSaver" account type and keep $5000 in cash to avoid all fees and also get the highest interest on my cash balance.

Here's the list of funds that are available to invest in...

American Funds Capital World
BlackRock Equity Dividend K
Dodge & Cox Income
Fidelity Low-Priced Stock
John Hancock Fundamental Large Cap Core
Lord Abbett High Yield
Neuberger Berman Genesis Fund - INST
Oppenheimer Developing Markets
PIMCO GNMA
PIMCO Low Duration
PIMCO Real Return Fund
Schwab Target 2020 Index Fund I
Schwab Target 2030 Index Fund I
Schwab Target 2040 Index Fund I
Schwab Target 2050 Index Fund I
Schwab Target 2060 Index Fund I
T. Rowe Price Blue Chip
Vanguard Equity-Income - A
Vanguard Extended Market
Vanguard Global Equity
Vanguard Healthcare
Vanguard Life Strategy-Growth
Vanguard LifeStrategy-Conservative Growth
Vanguard LifeStrategy-Moderate Growth
Vanguard Mid Cap Index - A
Vanguard REIT
Vanguard S&P 500 Index - A
Vanguard Small Cap Index - A
Vanguard Total Stock Market 10
Vanguard Treasury Money Market
Vanguard Wellington - A

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jhfenton
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by jhfenton » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:15 pm

krick wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:26 am
I have an HSA through Optum Bank as required by my employer to receive their contribution.
You're not required to keep the money there, though. The cash drag on $5,000 earning 0.2% is something over $100 per year, depending on what other fixed income you compare it to.

mpsz
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by mpsz » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:24 pm

TropikThunder wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:12 pm
Did they (or someone else) advise that you shouldn't do an in-kind transfer?
Nope, I just thought it would be faster to go to cash, and I was okay with the money being out of the market for a short while. I was wrong. :oops:

blindSwine
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by blindSwine » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:05 pm

I also had an employer HSA with Optum with a minimum cash balance requirement. That bs just didn't sit well with me; it is forcing me to give them an interest-free loan. That plus their thoroughly inept service made me transfer out and I posted in an employee forum the reasoning. Financially, it wasn't worth the difference after fees but just hated everything about Optum.

Perhaps not surprisingly, few people in the employee forum showed interest to do the same. There were a couple of questions on the details as the Optum propagandists told people that contributing yourself is disadvantageous because you'd be contributing after-tax money. IMHO, that's grounds for some type of penalty for false or misleading fiduciary advice. But most people just take the path of least resistance and that's what Optum is banking on.

InvestorNew
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by InvestorNew » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:48 am

I’m working on trying to invest our HSA Bank cash into TD Ameritrade. I also find the TDA site very confusing and cluttered. I am veryyy new to investing and currently only have investments in a 3-fund portfolio using vanguard through as Schwab.

I’ve searched and searched for Vanguard through TDA and it says not available through TDA. However, I’m unable to find a list of available funds to sift through and compare. Does anyone know how to look for funds on the TDA site that are available?

Glockenspiel
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by Glockenspiel » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:55 am

InvestorNew wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:48 am
I’m working on trying to invest our HSA Bank cash into TD Ameritrade. I also find the TDA site very confusing and cluttered. I am veryyy new to investing and currently only have investments in a 3-fund portfolio using vanguard through as Schwab.

I’ve searched and searched for Vanguard through TDA and it says not available through TDA. However, I’m unable to find a list of available funds to sift through and compare. Does anyone know how to look for funds on the TDA site that are available?
I also found it very confusing, compared with Vanguard's and Fidelity's websites. There is a "trade" tab, once you're logged in and have an account set up. You can click the trade tab, then buy/sell ETFs. You can also research which options are available with the "Research & Ideas" tab. I looked through all of the Commission-Free ETFs and found "SPTM" to be most comparable to the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index fund.

InvestorNew
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by InvestorNew » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:04 pm

Thank you!!!! I’ll go and check this out on the page. Thank you for the recommendation on funds :) I need to find a fund that fits within our allocation and then try to balance it with the 401k.... I hope I’m doing this correctly! I may touch base again as make sure I’ve kept everything in line.
Glockenspiel wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:55 am
InvestorNew wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:48 am
I’m working on trying to invest our HSA Bank cash into TD Ameritrade. I also find the TDA site very confusing and cluttered. I am veryyy new to investing and currently only have investments in a 3-fund portfolio using vanguard through as Schwab.

I’ve searched and searched for Vanguard through TDA and it says not available through TDA. However, I’m unable to find a list of available funds to sift through and compare. Does anyone know how to look for funds on the TDA site that are available?
I also found it very confusing, compared with Vanguard's and Fidelity's websites. There is a "trade" tab, once you're logged in and have an account set up. You can click the trade tab, then buy/sell ETFs. You can also research which options are available with the "Research & Ideas" tab. I looked through all of the Commission-Free ETFs and found "SPTM" to be most comparable to the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index fund.

Angst
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by Angst » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:45 pm

I've decided to transfer my HSA Bank/TDA Brokerage HSA account to Lively.

- Have people been assessed an exit fee by HSA Bank?
- I gather that I should first go through the process of setting up the account at Lively, get my bank setup with them too and then after getting all that done, email Lively support people re doing my "In Kind" TDA transfer.
- I also infer that it might be advantageous to have a zero $ cash balance in the HSA Bank side of my account when I initiate the In Kind transfer. Does this make sense? I keep nothing there anyhow, except $ for the monthly fees.
- I'd love to avoid an exit fee.
- This/these are both personal accounts; no employer layer involved.

Yes, I've read through the big Lively thread as well:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=228522
It's quite long but in all I read I didn't find my questions directly addressed. Thanks in advance!
Perhaps I should post this there too? Let's see what this thread turns up first...

alter
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by alter » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:25 pm

HSA Bank has NEVER been the best choice.

Used them years ago and had such a bad experience that I quit and they charged a $50 to leave at the time...which by itself is an outrageous fee....fee's to close account are never a good sign.

Was forced to use them again due to employer and again, had absolutely terrible experience...agents on phone actually gave false info and tried telling me I couldn't transfer to another HSA without closing my account, and it took very many calls to transfer funds out from them. They are really hands down the worst customer support I've ever gotten from any bank.

Some people like Lively, I guess the $2.50 monthly fee is ok, I prefer no monthly fees and the ability to trade covered call options with Elements, which Lively doesn't have. In my case, selling just one covered call option per year more than makes up for the so called "cash-drag" of earning only a half percent on a meager $2,500 balance.

JustinR
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by JustinR » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:58 pm

Angst wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:45 pm
I've decided to transfer my HSA Bank/TDA Brokerage HSA account to Lively.

- Have people been assessed an exit fee by HSA Bank?
- I gather that I should first go through the process of setting up the account at Lively, get my bank setup with them too and then after getting all that done, email Lively support people re doing my "In Kind" TDA transfer.
- I also infer that it might be advantageous to have a zero $ cash balance in the HSA Bank side of my account when I initiate the In Kind transfer. Does this make sense? I keep nothing there anyhow, except $ for the monthly fees.
- I'd love to avoid an exit fee.
- This/these are both personal accounts; no employer layer involved.

Yes, I've read through the big Lively thread as well:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=228522
It's quite long but in all I read I didn't find my questions directly addressed. Thanks in advance!
Perhaps I should post this there too? Let's see what this thread turns up first...

You're correct about the process. This is the process in full:
  1. Establish new account at Lively. They will create TDA account #2 that goes along with it.
  2. Move all your cash funds sitting in HSA Bank to the investment account (TDA #1) first. This way all your funds will be in TDA before you transfer, and you don't have to do two separate transfers (cash funds and investment funds).
  3. Have Lively initiate an "in-kind transfer" from TDA 1 to TDA 2. TDA will simply move your investments from the old account to the new one without any transactions taking place.
  4. Your investments should now be at TDA 2.
  5. Have Lively initiate a transfer for any cash left at HSA Bank. (Skip this step if you did step #2 and your leftover balance is $0)
  6. Once that's done, you can close your HSA Bank account.
If you have any questions about the process, you can just email Lively and they'll hold your hand through the whole process.
Last edited by JustinR on Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:15 pm, edited 5 times in total.

asif408
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by asif408 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:06 pm

Angst wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:45 pm
- Have people been assessed an exit fee by HSA Bank?
- I'd love to avoid an exit fee.
You may not be able to avoid the exit fee, but IIRC, when I transferred, I had maybe $12 in the cash account portion and they just took that as the exit fee, so I didn't have to pay the full exit fee. YMMV.

Angst
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by Angst » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:37 pm

JustinR wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:58 pm
Angst wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:45 pm
I've decided to transfer my HSA Bank/TDA Brokerage HSA account to Lively.

- Have people been assessed an exit fee by HSA Bank?
- I gather that I should first go through the process of setting up the account at Lively, get my bank setup with them too and then after getting all that done, email Lively support people re doing my "In Kind" TDA transfer.
- I also infer that it might be advantageous to have a zero $ cash balance in the HSA Bank side of my account when I initiate the In Kind transfer. Does this make sense? I keep nothing there anyhow, except $ for the monthly fees.
- I'd love to avoid an exit fee.
- This/these are both personal accounts; no employer layer involved.

Yes, I've read through the big Lively thread as well:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=228522
It's quite long but in all I read I didn't find my questions directly addressed. Thanks in advance!
Perhaps I should post this there too? Let's see what this thread turns up first...
You're correct about the process. This is the process in full:
  1. Establish new account at Lively. They will create TDA account #2 that goes along with it.
  2. Move all your cash funds sitting in HSA Bank to the investment account (TDA #1) first. This way all your funds will be in TDA before you transfer, and you don't have to do two separate transfers (cash funds and investment funds).
  3. Have Lively initiate an "in-kind transfer" from TDA 1 to TDA 2. TDA will simply move your investments from the old account to the new one without any transactions taking place.
  4. Your investments should now be at TDA 2.
  5. Have Lively initiate a transfer for any cash left at HSA Bank. (Skip this step if you did step #2 and your leftover balance is $0)
  6. Once that's done, you can close your HSA Bank account.
If you have any questions about the process, you can just email Lively and they'll hold your hand through the whole process.
Thank you JustinR and asif 408. I think I'll begin the transfer process this weekend or early next week and will report back as things progress. Your comments have been helpful.
Last edited by Angst on Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Angst
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Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:31 am

HSA Bank to Lively account transfer

Post by Angst » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:37 pm

JustinR wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:58 pm
Angst wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:45 pm
I've decided to transfer my HSA Bank/TDA Brokerage HSA account to Lively.

[Snip...]

Yes, I've read through the big Lively thread as well:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=228522
It's quite long but in all I read I didn't find my questions directly addressed. Thanks in advance!
Perhaps I should post this there too? Let's see what this thread turns up first...
You're correct about the process. This is the process in full:
  1. Establish new account at Lively. They will create TDA account #2 that goes along with it.
  2. Move all your cash funds sitting in HSA Bank to the investment account (TDA #1) first. This way all your funds will be in TDA before you transfer, and you don't have to do two separate transfers (cash funds and investment funds).
  3. Have Lively initiate an "in-kind transfer" from TDA 1 to TDA 2. TDA will simply move your investments from the old account to the new one without any transactions taking place.
  4. Your investments should now be at TDA 2.
  5. Have Lively initiate a transfer for any cash left at HSA Bank. (Skip this step if you did step #2 and your leftover balance is $0)
  6. Once that's done, you can close your HSA Bank account.
If you have any questions about the process, you can just email Lively and they'll hold your hand through the whole process.
My transfer's mostly complete now! Thank you for everyone's advice.

Last Wed, 8/1 I created my Lively acct online. Very easy to do. I only have (had) $6 in my HSA Bank cash balance so I just left it alone since the monthly $5.50 typically is drawn in the first week of the month and I wasn't going to worry about trying to dodge that for this month. I then created my Lively TDA acct online myself using the Lively links available for that.

Thu, 8/2 I text-chatted online w/ Lively and then they emailed me a pdf to fill out for transfer of my HSA Bank TDA acct to my new Lively TDA acct. I filled it out and took pics of it and of my last TDA statement and emailed them back to Lively, I think on Fri morning.

Today, Wed 8/8, my Lively TDA account has everything in it. EZPZ.

Not much left to do really. Did you then just login to your HSA Bank account and find a contact link to tell them to close your acct?

By the way, I've noticed that Lively really can take a long time to load itself when you sign in. I see it accesses a lot of cloud links and wonder if that may have something to do with it. I've never seen this kind of login slowness with any other sites I routinely go to.

FIREmeup
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by FIREmeup » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:51 pm

Whenever I read an HSA thread I am always surprised there is rarely a mention of Further HSA, which used to be Select Account HSA.

They have $1000 threshold, then you can open a basic investment account which has mutual funds to invest in. Many are garbage but they do have VFIAX VIMAX NAESX. Which are Vanguard 500, mid cap and small cap funds. They also have a whole host of Vanguard target date funds. Once at $10k, a self directed Schwab account can be opened. The investment portion has an $18 yearly fee while the Further portion is $1 to $3 a month based on type of savings account you keep the $1000 in.

I cannot speak to their actual HSA payback and reimbursement services as I have not and, with any luck, do not plan to use this money for awhile.

I did my analysis awhile ago so maybe things have changed. Today, lazily, I simply looked at the HSA report card site and it does have Further as a top investment style HSA so by that arbitrary metric I'm still in a lower fee HSA.

deltaneutral83
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by deltaneutral83 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:19 pm

FIREmeup wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:51 pm
Whenever I read an HSA thread I am always surprised there is rarely a mention of Further HSA, which used to be Select Account HSA.
Lively is $30 ($2.50 /month) a year, no minimums, can invest 100% with TDA which has more than adequate ETFs to build "3F" commission free. The $2.50 a month is also taken out of a separate checking account allowing you to invest that little bit with the triple tax advantage of the HSA.

RIMDBogle
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by RIMDBogle » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:44 pm

Thanks for opening this thread.

I am thinking of moving my HSA from Elements CU.

Does Lively has an option to waive fees based on balance for investment ?

Who are the HSA providers offer FEE waiver based on balance for investment?or sharing

Thanks for sharing.

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jhfenton
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by jhfenton » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:09 am

Angst wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:37 pm
By the way, I've noticed that Lively really can take a long time to load itself when you sign in. I see it accesses a lot of cloud links and wonder if that may have something to do with it. I've never seen this kind of login slowness with any other sites I routinely go to.
I sometimes have to log in twice, because it will just hang with the spinning circle the first time. I don't know the cause. It always works immediately the second time. I just tried it, though, and it logged in about a one-second delay. So who knows.
RIMDBogle wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:44 pm
Does Lively has an option to waive fees based on balance for investment ?
Lively has one fixed fee if you open the companion TD Ameritrade investment account: $2.50/month drawn from a linked checking account. The fee is not waivable. There are no other fees.

If you don't open an investment account, Lively has no fees, but they don't offer the highest interest rates if you plan to accumulate cash.

FunnelCakeBob
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by FunnelCakeBob » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:40 am

FIREmeup wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:51 pm
Whenever I read an HSA thread I am always surprised there is rarely a mention of Further HSA, which used to be Select Account HSA.
I looked at Select Account HSA last year and noticed some of their tiers for the cash funds are not FDIC insured deposit products. That, and the small print disclosure, was enough to steer me away.

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jeffyscott
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by jeffyscott » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:44 pm

FIREmeup wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:51 pm
Whenever I read an HSA thread I am always surprised there is rarely a mention of Further HSA, which used to be Select Account HSA.

They have $1000 threshold, then you can open a basic investment account which has mutual funds to invest in. Many are garbage but they do have VFIAX VIMAX NAESX. Which are Vanguard 500, mid cap and small cap funds. They also have a whole host of Vanguard target date funds. Once at $10k, a self directed Schwab account can be opened. The investment portion has an $18 yearly fee while the Further portion is $1 to $3 a month based on type of savings account you keep the $1000 in.
Over here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=207051&start=150#p3714613
A post about that one says: I pay medical expenses out of the Cash Account and even if it goes below 1000$, nothing is triggered - i.e. $1000 is not really locked up.

Does anyone have any more details on that? I'd be paying bills out of the HSA, if the $1000 can be run down to near $0 as bills get paid, so that average uninvested balance can be much less than the initial $1000, then I think this one might be the winner for me.

BTW, it appears they have a $0.00/month option with 0% interest on the base account. So the cost would be just the $18 plus the opportunity cost of the uninvested balance.
https://hellofurther.com/products/healt ... count-hsa/
press on, regardless - John C. Bogle

danaht
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by danaht » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:15 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:15 pm
krick wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:26 am
I have an HSA through Optum Bank as required by my employer to receive their contribution.
You're not required to keep the money there, though. The cash drag on $5,000 earning 0.2% is something over $100 per year, depending on what other fixed income you compare it to.
I just got a new job where the employer uses Optum bank for it's HSA. Like krick - I need to use it for the employer contributions. I currently have a HSA Bank/TD Ameritrade account with $5000 in cash, and soon a Optum HSA account with an additional $5000 in cash. So I'll have $10,000 in cash slowing down the growth of my HSA accounts. But to make up for it - I'll plan to be 100% stock in both accounts for the non-cash portion. I could consolidate my accounts to one account - but I like TD Ameritrade for the HSA - and don't want to close my HSA Bank account. In 10 years - when I retire, I'll consolidate the Optum account to the HSA Bank / TD Ameritrade account.

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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by jhfenton » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:37 pm

danaht wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:15 pm
I just got a new job where the employer uses Optum bank for it's HSA. Like krick - I need to use it for the employer contributions. I currently have a HSA Bank/TD Ameritrade account with $5000 in cash, and soon a Optum HSA account with an additional $5000 in cash. So I'll have $10,000 in cash slowing down the growth of my HSA accounts. But to make up for it - I'll plan to be 100% stock in both accounts for the non-cash portion. I could consolidate my accounts to one account - but I like TD Ameritrade for the HSA - and don't want to close my HSA Bank account. In 10 years - when I retire, I'll consolidate the Optum account to the HSA Bank / TD Ameritrade account.
I know a couple folks on here have opened a Lively account and done an in-kind transfer from TD Ameritrade to TD Ameritrade. You would have no cash drag at Lively for $2.50/month out of checking.

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jeffyscott
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by jeffyscott » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:47 pm

jeffyscott wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:44 pm
FIREmeup wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:51 pm
Whenever I read an HSA thread I am always surprised there is rarely a mention of Further HSA, which used to be Select Account HSA.

They have $1000 threshold, then you can open a basic investment account which has mutual funds to invest in. Many are garbage but they do have VFIAX VIMAX NAESX. Which are Vanguard 500, mid cap and small cap funds. They also have a whole host of Vanguard target date funds. Once at $10k, a self directed Schwab account can be opened. The investment portion has an $18 yearly fee while the Further portion is $1 to $3 a month based on type of savings account you keep the $1000 in.
Over here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=207051&start=150#p3714613
A post about that one says: I pay medical expenses out of the Cash Account and even if it goes below 1000$, nothing is triggered - i.e. $1000 is not really locked up.

Does anyone have any more details on that? I'd be paying bills out of the HSA, if the $1000 can be run down to near $0 as bills get paid, so that average uninvested balance can be much less than the initial $1000, then I think this one might be the winner for me.

BTW, it appears they have a $0.00/month option with 0% interest on the base account. So the cost would be just the $18 plus the opportunity cost of the uninvested balance.
https://hellofurther.com/products/healt ... count-hsa/
I think I found the answer myself on their site:
If your Base Balance falls below $1,000 due to HSA withdrawals for health care claims, then your future contributions will first be used to build your Base Balance back to $1,000, with the remainder invested per your instructions.

Account withdrawals are always paid from your Base Balance. If there are not enough funds in your Base Balance to pay a claim, the claim will be pended for 12 months or until more funds are available in your Base Balance. These funds can come from either new contributions or from transferring funds from your investment account to your Base Balance. Transferring funds from the self-directed investment account or the Basic Investment Account to the Base Balance is not automatic. You must manually request such a transfer.
So that sounds to me like you can run the base balance as low as you like and they won't liquidate investments to replenish it. It would only be replenished automatically when you make new contributions.

https://learn.hellofurther.com/Individu ... nvestments
press on, regardless - John C. Bogle

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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by TropikThunder » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:59 pm

danaht wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:15 pm
I just got a new job where the employer uses Optum bank for it's HSA. Like krick - I need to use it for the employer contributions. I currently have a HSA Bank/TD Ameritrade account with $5000 in cash, and soon a Optum HSA account with an additional $5000 in cash. So I'll have $10,000 in cash slowing down the growth of my HSA accounts. But to make up for it - I'll plan to be 100% stock in both accounts for the non-cash portion. I could consolidate my accounts to one account - but I like TD Ameritrade for the HSA - and don't want to close my HSA Bank account. In 10 years - when I retire, I'll consolidate the Optum account to the HSA Bank / TD Ameritrade account.
I would venture to guess that you like the TDA investment option in spite of HSA Bank, not because of HSA Bank and it's drag-inducing idle cash requirement (I call it the hostage account). Since Lively also uses the exact same TDA interface, I don't see why one would leave their money parked in cash at HSA Bank, or even keep their HSA Bank account at all if it's not the recipient of employer contributions.

My employer uses Health Equity, but (like others here) I periodically transfer the money to Lively and move it to TDA from there and by SPTM (Total Stock Market ETF). So, my HSA is 100% equity too, but all of it. :beer
jhfenton wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:37 pm
I know a couple folks on here have opened a Lively account and done an in-kind transfer from TD Ameritrade to TD Ameritrade. You would have no cash drag at Lively for $2.50/month out of checking.
I did just that, a trustee-to-trustee transfer of my SPTM shares in kind from my HSA Bank-linked TDA account to my new Lively-linked TDA account when I opened it. The share transfer took all of 2 days.

Lively isn't perfect though, I hear you can't sell covered calls in your Lively-linked TDA account. :(
oblique snark alert

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jeffyscott
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Re: Is HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade still the best HSA choice?

Post by jeffyscott » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:59 am

jeffyscott wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:47 pm
FIREmeup wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:51 pm
Whenever I read an HSA thread I am always surprised there is rarely a mention of Further HSA, which used to be Select Account HSA.

They have $1000 threshold, then you can open a basic investment account which has mutual funds to invest in. Many are garbage but they do have VFIAX VIMAX NAESX. Which are Vanguard 500, mid cap and small cap funds. They also have a whole host of Vanguard target date funds. Once at $10k, a self directed Schwab account can be opened. The investment portion has an $18 yearly fee while the Further portion is $1 to $3 a month based on type of savings account you keep the $1000 in.
BTW, it appears they have a $0.00/month option with 0% interest on the base account. So the cost would be just the $18 plus the opportunity cost of the uninvested balance.
Discovered the free option does not have any investment account option.

So with an investment account the the lowest cost option is $30 per year plus the opportunity cost of idle cash.
press on, regardless - John C. Bogle

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