Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

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Earl Lemongrab
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Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:04 pm

This is a question about implementing a Living Revocable Trust. It is not intended to be yet another discussion of whether you should have one.

When you have a trust developed by an attorney, who is usually responsible for getting all of the assets retitled so that they are assets of the trust? If the attorney does it, what magnitude of extra cost would normally be involved? I understand that it would be factored to a degree on the number and kinds of assets.
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afan
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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by afan » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:36 pm

For most of your assets retitling is so easy it would be silly to pay someone to do it. There will be forms for bank accounts, brokerage accounts, etc. If you have real estate in the trust then that would require a change with your local municipality. How much it costs and how hard it is depends on where you live. Your attorney should tell you what needs to go into the trust and how to do it. I assume, for a price they would tell you, they would line everything up and show you where to sign.

If you put real estate into the trust be sure to check with the attorney about whether this impacts your insurance.
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FIREchief
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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by FIREchief » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:57 pm

afan wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:36 pm
If you put real estate into the trust be sure to check with the attorney about whether this impacts your insurance.
And, regardless of what your attorney tells you, notify your insurance company as well.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by fourwheelcycle » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:34 pm

We made an appointment at our local BoA branch and they changed our checking and savings accounts over to our new joint revocable trust in one twenty minute visit. All of our other taxable savings, except for a small online account at Marcus, are at Vanguard. Our Vanguard rep connected us with another rep who walked us through the necessary changeover request forms. Our regular rep warned us the actual back office work to complete the changeover would take awhile and emailed me a few times to update us on the status of our changeover. It went smoothly, but it took about a month to complete.

Our attorney completed and submitted the state application to retitle our house to our trust as part of his overall fee to prepare our estate documents. We paid the state's fee, which was under $300, and it took about a month to process. I called our insurance company, AMICA, when the retitle application was submitted. They said they would note the change on our insurance records and there would be no change in our premiums. They asked me to let them know when the new title was completed, which I did.

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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by neilpilot » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:26 am

Assuming you have a title insurance policy that was issued in your name(s) on purchase of the property, does this also need to be revised to indicate a trust?

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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by Ben10 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:34 am

afan wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:36 pm
For most of your assets retitling is so easy it would be silly to pay someone to do it.
When left to fund their own trusts, most will either not do it or will do it incorrectly.

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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by FIREchief » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:39 pm

Ben10 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:34 am
afan wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:36 pm
For most of your assets retitling is so easy it would be silly to pay someone to do it.
When left to fund their own trusts, most will either not do it or will do it incorrectly.
I think "most" may be a bit extreme, but I really don't know the breakdowns. We do hear multiple reports that one of the biggest problems with living trusts is that the grantors fail to fund them. That said, for those who do fund them I doubt that most "do it incorrectly." Most custodians will require a certification of trust, and that document should spell out all of the specifics (name of trust, current trustees, etc.) so the re-titling should be correct. Also, the trust itself should provide some leeway in how the trust can be appropriately referenced, so as to allow for banking systems, etc. with field limitations that force some fairly creative abbreviations at times.
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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:51 pm

For those here who have had a trust, what did you do? If the attorney did most of the work, what was the charge?
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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by FIREchief » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:59 pm

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:51 pm
For those here who have had a trust, what did you do? If the attorney did most of the work, what was the charge?
I think afan provided great guidance in the second post in this thread. I would have the attorney take care of re-titling any real estate (or other more complex assets) but handle the bank accounts, brokerage accounts, insurance, etc. directly with the businesses. This should be business as usual for all of them.
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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:17 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:59 pm
I think afan provided great guidance in the second post in this thread. I would have the attorney take care of re-titling any real estate (or other more complex assets) but handle the bank accounts, brokerage accounts, insurance, etc. directly with the businesses. This should be business as usual for all of them.
Well, that was a theoretical. I'm asking what actual trust grantors have done. Not what would be easy to do.
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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by letsgobobby » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:27 pm

After creating our trust our attorney provided specific instructions about what to change and how. She took care of the primary residence retitling but the rest we did.

I made a spreadsheet to make sure each item was correctly addressed. It’s taken about six weeks so far. Should be done in 1-2 weeks.

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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by Gnirk » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:43 pm

As Durable Power of Attorney for my mother, I was able to have an attorney set up a revocable living trust with her as the beneficiary, and me as the trustee, with successive trustees named. For those of you who want to know "why" I set up a living trust for her: My mother had mid-stage Alzheimer's, and hadn't named a successor DPOA, and I went the Living Trust route in order to name successor trustees in case something happened to me. I sent the trust documents to Vanguard and Ameriprise, and they created an account in the name of her living trust, and transferred the investments to the LT account. I did the same with individual stocks that she owned. I did not transfer her residence to the LT because we were in the process of selling it. I changed the name on her primary checking/savings credit union account to the trust name.

The processes were all very straightforward. I think it took about 3-4 weeks to accomplish. No need to pay an attorney for what you can do yourself.

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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by afan » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:05 am

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:17 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:59 pm
I think afan provided great guidance in the second post in this thread. I would have the attorney take care of re-titling any real estate (or other more complex assets) but handle the bank accounts, brokerage accounts, insurance, etc. directly with the businesses. This should be business as usual for all of them.
Well, that was a theoretical. I'm asking what actual trust grantors have done. Not what would be easy to do.
Just to clarify, I did this.

It was so easy it would be absurd to pay someone to do it for you.
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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by kaneohe » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:12 am

afan wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:05 am
Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:17 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:59 pm
I think afan provided great guidance in the second post in this thread. I would have the attorney take care of re-titling any real estate (or other more complex assets) but handle the bank accounts, brokerage accounts, insurance, etc. directly with the businesses. This should be business as usual for all of them.
Well, that was a theoretical. I'm asking what actual trust grantors have done. Not what would be easy to do.
Just to clarify, I did this.

It was so easy it would be absurd to pay someone to do it for you.
agree w/ this.........attorney should provide clear instructions for this including real estate too.
Simple but a bit of a pain if you have stuff hidden all over the place like squirrels have acorns.
Good to know this https://www.webuildyourtrust.com/choosi ... statement/ Haven't done it yet but hopefully my understanding is correct.....you can have a LRT restated with extensive changes but keep the name/date of original trust. Then you don't have go through the the retitling process again.

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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:18 am

We did the retitling ourselves. Actually, I did it myself for both of us. But the attorney strongly encouraged us to come back and let him (for a nominal charge) review what I did, because he says many people don't do it or don't do it right.

It wasn't particularly burdensome for me, but I have a pretty high tolerance for administrivia. Some members of my family would die of old age before they got around to something like that.

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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by Nowizard » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:26 am

We did it ourselves, and it was simple once data were looked up. I assume most, like ours, have a pour-over will that accounts for items one may have failed to retitle accurately or at all.

Tim

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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by FIREchief » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:53 am

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:17 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:59 pm
I think afan provided great guidance in the second post in this thread. I would have the attorney take care of re-titling any real estate (or other more complex assets) but handle the bank accounts, brokerage accounts, insurance, etc. directly with the businesses. This should be business as usual for all of them.
Well, that was a theoretical. I'm asking what actual trust grantors have done. Not what would be easy to do.
You're incorrectly assuming that my answer was based upon "theory" and not personal experience. The context of my answer aligned with the context of your original questions. Since afan's advice was so accurately worded, I saw no reason to restate the excellent answer that he already provided. Did you disagree with that guidance?
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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:55 am

FIREchief wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:53 am
Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:17 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:59 pm
I think afan provided great guidance in the second post in this thread. I would have the attorney take care of re-titling any real estate (or other more complex assets) but handle the bank accounts, brokerage accounts, insurance, etc. directly with the businesses. This should be business as usual for all of them.
Well, that was a theoretical. I'm asking what actual trust grantors have done. Not what would be easy to do.
You're incorrectly assuming that my answer was based upon "theory" and not personal experience. The context of my answer aligned with the context of your original questions. Since afan's advice was so accurately worded, I saw no reason to restate the excellent answer that he already provided. Did you disagree with that guidance?
Because you stated it as a hypothetical "I would have" versus an actual event, "I had". I can only work with what you provide.
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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by FIREchief » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:04 pm

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:55 am
FIREchief wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:53 am
Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:17 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:59 pm
I think afan provided great guidance in the second post in this thread. I would have the attorney take care of re-titling any real estate (or other more complex assets) but handle the bank accounts, brokerage accounts, insurance, etc. directly with the businesses. This should be business as usual for all of them.
Well, that was a theoretical. I'm asking what actual trust grantors have done. Not what would be easy to do.
You're incorrectly assuming that my answer was based upon "theory" and not personal experience. The context of my answer aligned with the context of your original questions. Since afan's advice was so accurately worded, I saw no reason to restate the excellent answer that he already provided. Did you disagree with that guidance?
Because you stated it as a hypothetical "I would have" versus an actual event, "I had". I can only work with what you provide.
Okay. Many of us try to avoid posting in the "here's what I did or am doing" context because this is a financial forum and while we try to help out others based upon our own experiences, we really don't like establishing a public database of our own personal financial actions. If you don't find my attempts to help answer your questions useful, then please disregard. They may be of use to others. See my signature.
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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by ChicagoBear7 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:39 pm

neilpilot wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:26 am
Assuming you have a title insurance policy that was issued in your name(s) on purchase of the property, does this also need to be revised to indicate a trust?
Our attorney instructed us to contact our title insurer and inform them of the transfer into our revocable trusts - this was back when the estate tax exemption was only @ $600k. For a nominal fee the title insurer issued a certificate amending the title insurance policy to include the trusts. Also, be sure to contact your homeowner's insurer and inform them of the title change. Many agents/brokers will want a copy of the deed so they get the ownership interest correct.

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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by FIREchief » Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:22 pm

ChicagoBear7 wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:39 pm
neilpilot wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:26 am
Assuming you have a title insurance policy that was issued in your name(s) on purchase of the property, does this also need to be revised to indicate a trust?
Our attorney instructed us to contact our title insurer and inform them of the transfer into our revocable trusts - this was back when the estate tax exemption was only @ $600k. For a nominal fee the title insurer issued a certificate amending the title insurance policy to include the trusts. Also, be sure to contact your homeowner's insurer and inform them of the title change. Many agents/brokers will want a copy of the deed so they get the ownership interest correct.
Would you mind telling us how much the nominal fee was? I've read of others being concerned about title insurance, but I've also read that in some (most?) states that the statute of limitations will prevent title challenges beyond a specified number of years. It would be great to hear some confirmation on this from one of our forum lawyers.
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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by ChicagoBear7 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:50 pm

I want to say that the fee was in the neighborhood of @ $75 -$100 back in 2004. I considered the fee to be worth it.

While I'm not an attorney, I know that the statute of limitations often does not start until you find out or should have known about a potential claim. In these instances it can be far more than 7 years.

Also, from a cost perspective, remember the statue of limitations is defense that must be properly plead and submitted to the court - the judge is not going to make the argument for you. So, even if the statute applies, you would need to hire a lawyer to draft the pleading, file it and appear in court - that can't be done for $100.
Last edited by ChicagoBear7 on Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by FIREchief » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:01 pm

ChicagoBear7 wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:50 pm
I want to say that the fee was in the neighborhood of @ $75 -$100 back in 2004. I considered the fee to be worth it.

While I'm not an attorney, I know that the statute of limitations often does not start until you find out or should have known about a potential claim. In these instances it can be far more than 7 years.

Also, from a cost perspective, remember the statue of limitations is defense that must be properly plead and submitted to the court - the judge is not going to make the argument for you. So, even if the statute applies, you would need to hire a lawyer to draft the pleading, file it and appear in court - that can't be done for $100.
Thanks. I may need to dust off my 20+ year old title policy.
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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by ChicagoBear7 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:14 pm

FIREchief If your policy is 20+ years old, you may need to figure out who is backing your policy today. At least in our market (Chicago), there have been several mergers. Our title company merged with someone else who was the surviving entity. Once I figured out that, it was relatively easy and the new company had our policy in their computer. Good luck.

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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by FIREchief » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:32 pm

ChicagoBear7 wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:14 pm
FIREchief If your policy is 20+ years old, you may need to figure out who is backing your policy today. At least in our market (Chicago), there have been several mergers. Our title company merged with someone else who was the surviving entity. Once I figured out that, it was relatively easy and the new company had our policy in their computer. Good luck.
Thanks!! I just did a quick search and it appears that my title insurance company merged with two others in 2007 and that the combined entity didn't survive the housing crisis and promptly went bankrupt. Not sure if my state would oversee transfer of the policies to other insurers or if I am just SOL. I may just punt on this one. If the state has a reserve that is covering any policy claims, it is highly unlikely that I could have the policy modified to reflect a trust as the new owner.

The house was new construction by a home developer on previously undeveloped land (the developer is still going strong, but no longer in residential construction). Also, due to 20+ years of inflation, the original policy only covers about half the value of the house currently (and I don't live in an expensive house). I've never really understood the title insurance requirement when buying from a builder anyways. When I buy a new car from my local dealer, I don't buy title insurance to cover me in the event that they've sold that car to three different people (or haven't paid the manufacturer for the invoice). It will be interesting to hear more perspectives on this.
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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by bsteiner » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:52 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:32 pm
...I've never really understood the title insurance requirement when buying from a builder anyways. When I buy a new car from my local dealer, I don't buy title insurance to cover me in the event that they've sold that car to three different people (or haven't paid the manufacturer for the invoice). It will be interesting to hear more perspectives on this.
When you buy a car you get a title certificate from the state that says you own the car.

But when you buy real estate, all you get is a deed from the seller. What if the seller didn't own it, or there's a lien on it that the title examiner missed?

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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by FIREchief » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:57 pm

bsteiner wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:52 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:32 pm
...I've never really understood the title insurance requirement when buying from a builder anyways. When I buy a new car from my local dealer, I don't buy title insurance to cover me in the event that they've sold that car to three different people (or haven't paid the manufacturer for the invoice). It will be interesting to hear more perspectives on this.
When you buy a car you get a title certificate from the state that says you own the car.

But when you buy real estate, all you get is a deed from the seller. What if the seller didn't own it, or there's a lien on it that the title examiner missed?
Thanks Bruce. Like my sig indicates, I'm not a lawyer. My dealer cashes my check and gives me the keys, then sends the title application to the state. What if the dealer goes belly up and the state refuses to recognize my ownership? I know it sounds far fetched, but I've never heard of a home's ownership being challenged either (likely happens in some bizarre scenarios, but my purchases have always been pretty straight forward). I guess I don't really understand the difference between a title and a deed, but probably don't need to.

Since you're on the line, do you have any perspective on how long a person might reasonably need title insurance on a residence? If their ownership were to be challenged, could it be done decades after they were recorded as the legal owner in their County of residence?
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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by tfb » Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:14 pm

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:17 pm
I'm asking what actual trust grantors have done. Not what would be easy to do.
I documented what I actually did in two parts:

https://thefinancebuff.com/will-and-tru ... -plan.html
https://thefinancebuff.com/switching-br ... -edge.html
Harry Sit, taking a break from the forums.

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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by bsteiner » Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:15 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:57 pm
...
Thanks Bruce. ...

Since you're on the line, do you have any perspective on how long a person might reasonably need title insurance on a residence? If their ownership were to be challenged, could it be done decades after they were recorded as the legal owner in their County of residence?
That varies from state to state. Most claims probably arise fairly soon. I only know of one claim on title insurance. A friend bought a home and the title examiner missed a small property tax lien. The title company paid it, and presumably went after the seller.

You only pay for the title insurance when you buy the property, or when you mortgage it.

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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by FIREchief » Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:50 pm

bsteiner wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:15 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:57 pm
...
Thanks Bruce. ...

Since you're on the line, do you have any perspective on how long a person might reasonably need title insurance on a residence? If their ownership were to be challenged, could it be done decades after they were recorded as the legal owner in their County of residence?
That varies from state to state. Most claims probably arise fairly soon. I only know of one claim on title insurance. A friend bought a home and the title examiner missed a small property tax lien. The title company paid it, and presumably went after the seller.

You only pay for the title insurance when you buy the property, or when you mortgage it.
Thanks Bruce. As an estate attorney, do you recommend that persons transferring a personal residence to a revocable living trust update their title insurance? That's not really a purchase, but it is a change of ownership (at least on some levels). This question has come up a handful of times in these threads, and an earlier poster in this thread indicated that he had modified the policy.

Also, if my wife and I are the current trustees of our living trust, and the title policy lists us by name as the named insured, would that carry over to our role as trustees? Hopefully I'm asking this correctly.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:53 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:04 pm
Okay. Many of us try to avoid posting in the "here's what I did or am doing" context because this is a financial forum and while we try to help out others based upon our own experiences, we really don't like establishing a public database of our own personal financial actions. If you don't find my attempts to help answer your questions useful, then please disregard. They may be of use to others. See my signature.
Many do try to make clear when they speak from experience. I always do that with something what I have seen, like the 401(k) at Megacorp, versus something I've heard about.

Anyway, thanks for the input.
Last edited by Earl Lemongrab on Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by bsteiner » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:22 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:50 pm
bsteiner wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:15 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:57 pm
...
Thanks Bruce. ...

Since you're on the line, do you have any perspective on how long a person might reasonably need title insurance on a residence? If their ownership were to be challenged, could it be done decades after they were recorded as the legal owner in their County of residence?
That varies from state to state. Most claims probably arise fairly soon. I only know of one claim on title insurance. A friend bought a home and the title examiner missed a small property tax lien. The title company paid it, and presumably went after the seller.

You only pay for the title insurance when you buy the property, or when you mortgage it.
Thanks Bruce. As an estate attorney, do you recommend that persons transferring a personal residence to a revocable living trust update their title insurance? That's not really a purchase, but it is a change of ownership (at least on some levels). This question has come up a handful of times in these threads, and an earlier poster in this thread indicated that he had modified the policy.

Also, if my wife and I are the current trustees of our living trust, and the title policy lists us by name as the named insured, would that carry over to our role as trustees? Hopefully I'm asking this correctly.
Whether the coverage continues may vary depending on the state, and on the title company or policy. If you and your wife have a single revocable trust, presumably you're in a community property state, most likely California. I don't know whether the coverage would continue in California. But since revocable trusts are common in California, the lawyer who prepared yours should know.

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Sandtrap
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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm
Location: Hawaii😀 Northern AZ.😳 Retired.

Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by Sandtrap » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:25 pm

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:51 pm
For those here who have had a trust, what did you do? If the attorney did most of the work, what was the charge?
Retitling done by the title/escrow company.
Various docs done by a document / paralegal service company.
Trust structure, consults, and so forth done by legal firm.
About 3k total for everything.
j

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FIREchief
Posts: 2741
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by FIREchief » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:02 pm

bsteiner wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:22 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:50 pm
bsteiner wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:15 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:57 pm
...
Thanks Bruce. ...

Since you're on the line, do you have any perspective on how long a person might reasonably need title insurance on a residence? If their ownership were to be challenged, could it be done decades after they were recorded as the legal owner in their County of residence?
That varies from state to state. Most claims probably arise fairly soon. I only know of one claim on title insurance. A friend bought a home and the title examiner missed a small property tax lien. The title company paid it, and presumably went after the seller.

You only pay for the title insurance when you buy the property, or when you mortgage it.
Thanks Bruce. As an estate attorney, do you recommend that persons transferring a personal residence to a revocable living trust update their title insurance? That's not really a purchase, but it is a change of ownership (at least on some levels). This question has come up a handful of times in these threads, and an earlier poster in this thread indicated that he had modified the policy.

Also, if my wife and I are the current trustees of our living trust, and the title policy lists us by name as the named insured, would that carry over to our role as trustees? Hopefully I'm asking this correctly.
Whether the coverage continues may vary depending on the state, and on the title company or policy. If you and your wife have a single revocable trust, presumably you're in a community property state, most likely California. I don't know whether the coverage would continue in California. But since revocable trusts are common in California, the lawyer who prepared yours should know.
Yep, we're in a community property state, so you're correct on that. As I had mentioned, the issuing company is long gone (merger, then bankruptcy, so likely a cold trail there). Since these title policies are one time fees on the front end, I just can't imagine that any other insurance company would have any interest in "assuming" them, so likely any recourse would be with my state's regulatory function and any reserve fund that they maintain. Fortunately, this is likely all academic at this point as decades have passed and it was new construction in a planned development. I do appreciate your continued input Bruce. I'll ask my lawyer next time I see him.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

JenniferG
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:16 am

Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by JenniferG » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:40 am

Nowizard wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:26 am
We did it ourselves, and it was simple once data were looked up. I assume most, like ours, have a pour-over will that accounts for items one may have failed to retitle accurately or at all.

Tim
Failure to re-title assets in the name of the trust is not completely “fixed” by a pour-over will. One of the main advantages of a trust is probate avoidance. If you miss just one account/asset with value greater than your state’s probate threshold, you’ve lost that advantage. (IANAL and won’t get into the details/ advantages/ disadvantages/ requirements of probate.)

In the >10 years I’ve worked with high net worth (> federal estate tax exemption) estate clients, I think I’ve worked with *one* estate where all the assets were titled according to plan.

The process is simple enough, but review your documents and asset list every few years and have your lawyer and CPA check your work.
IANAL. I am a CPA, but I’m probably posting too late at night or too far into tax season to be 100% accurate. You get what you pay for.

Nowizard
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:33 pm

Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by Nowizard » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:48 pm

JenniferG: Thank you for the information. I was unaware of that fact. Does it apply in all states to your knowledge?

Tim

Pigeye Brewster
Posts: 238
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:33 pm

Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by Pigeye Brewster » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:22 pm

Nowizard wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:48 pm
JenniferG: Thank you for the information. I was unaware of that fact. Does it apply in all states to your knowledge?

Tim
In some states, it can depend on the dollar value of the assets involved. Below a certain statutory threshold, an affidavit of small estate may be an option instead of having to go through probate.

viz
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 11:22 pm

Re: Living Revocable Trust - conveyance of assets

Post by viz » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:06 am

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:51 pm
For those here who have had a trust, what did you do? If the attorney did most of the work, what was the charge?
Attorney took care of the real estate and charged only the county fee. We had one property only.
The rest we did ourselves

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