Flooring for New House

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starkinthesouth
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Flooring for New House

Post by starkinthesouth » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:33 pm

I am currently in the process of having a house built and have run into a bit of a roadblock when selecting flooring. The original plans called for porcelain tile on the first floor and hardwood on the 2nd floor. However, when looking at samples we liked this luxury vinyl plank flooring (LVP or WVP, as it is waterproof). I am looking for some additional insight or opinions to help make my decision. Either flooring option will cost roughly the same amount and they all look good, so price and look are not the driving factors. IMO, the qualities of the product is the focal point of the decision. We do have 1 dog, will probably get another one soon, kid(s) are likely but a few years away (5-10). Below are some of the pros and cons.

Tile/Wood:
Pros: Classic flooring option, High resale value, adds character with scratches etc, is the product the builder recommends, unlikely to crack- tile is PEI5
Cons: Tile can chip or crack, Wood requires more maintenance, wood can scratch etc (also a pro)

Luxury Vinyl Plank (https://www.alstoninc.com/england-spc-sheet):
Pros: Waterproof, easy to clean, won't chip break or crack, softer material than tile/wood, is not cold (compared to tile)
Cons: Perceived as lower quality, potential can impact the resale price, would be builder's first experience installing the product

Thanks for any comments, help or insight you may have. I have many more details regarding specifics but didn't want the post to become bloated, please let me know if any specific details would be useful in providing advice. Thanks again!

EDITED: To add specifics
Last edited by starkinthesouth on Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.

nickjoy
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by nickjoy » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:46 pm

I'm not a home repair expert, but I know some vinyl floors are put on with a glue, if you need to replace a section of the vinyl, when you pull it up, the glue will rip and jack up that vinyl section. It sounds like you might have a bunch of small sections, but I've seen it where the floor was one big sheet, or several smaller sheets, in that case, they needed to get a whole new floor to replace a small rip/damage. Or live with the damage.

Make sure about how to replace a strip of the vinyl flooring without affecting the surrounding planks.

I would suggest putting out both on the floor of the hardware store and walking on it with your bare feet. Or in whatever footwear you wear around your house. Things will feel differently on bare feet than in shoes. My father got a nice tile one, and it had a slight dome to it, and he hates walking on it in his bare feet, ruined the kitchen for him. That's my 2 cents.

adamthesmythe
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by adamthesmythe » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:49 pm

I suspect that natural materials will always win out when it comes to resale value.

But you're building a house for yourself. If you don't anticipate selling anytime soon, then you should get what you want.

I have hardwood (actually engineered hardwood). We don't wear shoes in the house so it is still perfect. Ceramic tile will only chip if you drop hammers on it.

You might need to make a different choice if you have kids or dogs.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by Sandtrap » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:50 pm

Synthetic laminate flooring?
Stone tile flooring?
j

starkinthesouth
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by starkinthesouth » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:50 pm

nickjoy wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:46 pm
I'm not a home repair expert, but I know some vinyl floors are put on with a glue, if you need to replace a section of the vinyl, when you pull it up, the glue will rip and jack up that vinyl section. It sounds like you might have a bunch of small sections, but I've seen it where the floor was one big sheet, or several smaller sheets, in that case, they needed to get a whole new floor to replace a small rip/damage. Or live with the damage.

Make sure about how to replace a strip of the vinyl flooring without affecting the surrounding planks.
The LVP would be a drop clicking system and would be easier to replace than tile, if it were to be damaged.
nickjoy wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:46 pm
I would suggest putting out both on the floor of the hardware store and walking on it with your bare feet. Or in whatever footwear you wear around your house. Things will feel differently on bare feet than in shoes. My father got a nice tile one, and it had a slight dome to it, and he hates walking on it in his bare feet, ruined the kitchen for him. That's my 2 cents.
On the last visit i spent time feeling the materials with my hand, but didn't walk on them. Will do that next time, thanks for the 2 cents.

starkinthesouth
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by starkinthesouth » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:52 pm

Sandtrap wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:50 pm
Synthetic laminate flooring?
Stone tile flooring?
j
I am not sure what you are asking. We are not considering laminate as I do not think it is as good as the two options we are looking at. As far as the tile, our option is the porcelain tile.

starkinthesouth
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by starkinthesouth » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:56 pm

adamthesmythe wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:49 pm
I suspect that natural materials will always win out when it comes to resale value.
Agreed
adamthesmythe wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:49 pm
But you're building a house for yourself. If you don't anticipate selling anytime soon, then you should get what you want.
Agreed, but really not sure which will be best. Both are very good options, so there is no losing, but still want to make the best decision.
adamthesmythe wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:49 pm
I have hardwood (actually engineered hardwood). We don't wear shoes in the house so it is still perfect. Ceramic tile will only chip if you drop hammers on it.

You might need to make a different choice if you have kids or dogs.
Thanks for the insight regarding your flooring. We typically don't wear shoes in the house either. I updated the original post with dog/kid info.

renue74
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by renue74 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:58 pm

LVT has really gotten a lot more popular in the last 5 years. To be honest, I found out about LVT from people at biggerpockets.com....who would put them in rental house because they were more durable than laminate flooring. The water proof aspect is huge in a rental.

Personally, I always felt LVT was not a good option for higher end houses because folks like real hardwood, etc. But then, some of our friends started putting LVT in their personal homes. So...it guess it's up to you.

I've seen samples of LVT that look really nice and if I were considering flooring, I would definitely buy it.

If you have kids or pets....maybe LVT is the best solution for high traffic. But be prepared during resale to get folks who wouldn't like them.
Last edited by renue74 on Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by Sandtrap » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:58 pm

starkinthesouth wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:52 pm
Sandtrap wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:50 pm
Synthetic laminate flooring?
Stone tile flooring?
j
I am not sure what you are asking. We are not considering laminate as I do not think it is as good as the two options we are looking at. As far as the tile, our option is the porcelain tile.
We have LVP and stone marble in our home, carpet in bedrooms. Works well. Durable. Easy to clean.
Good luck in your choices.
j

FeesR-BullNotBullish
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by FeesR-BullNotBullish » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:10 pm

My preference is wood throughout and tile in the kitchen and bathrooms. When DW and I were house hunting we encountered quite a few homes that had LVP flooring. Initially, I thought the LVP floors looked good. However, after seeing a few LVP floors, I liked it less each time and came to think LVP was tacky.

Regarding scratches, I don't think they look good on modern wood floors, and your builder might be tempering your expectations for his product. I installed wood in a previous home and the dog scratched it up pretty quickly. In our current house, the wood is better quality (harder) and doesn't show any scratches. If you go with wood, I suggest insisting on a harder, more scratch resistant wood.

I do not find wood difficult to maintain. We vacuum regularly and mop with wood floor cleaner occasionally. Our house came with wood in the kitchen. We spill things and cat puke sometimes sits when we are working or sleeping. The wood has yet to show ill effects.

For what it's worth, I'll put in a word for carpet, as unfashionable as it has become. I love it especially in our bedroom, and I think it helps dampen sounds.

Congratulations on your new house!

gmc4h232
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by gmc4h232 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:33 pm

The product you linked to is just laminate flooring. Laminate shows scratches really bad.This cant be fixed without replacing the section.

Agree that it looks tacky in a higher end residential setting. It also has a distinct sound when you walk on it. In my head I just hear "cheap cheap cheap" with every footstep.

Also they do NOT cost the same amount. Hardwood and tile are potentially 2x the cost of laminate. Sounds like your contractor is suggesting a cheaper product in order to pocket the difference.

barnaclebob
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by barnaclebob » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:52 pm

Nothing beats real wood for looks and feel.

starkinthesouth
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by starkinthesouth » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:57 pm

gmc4h232 wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:33 pm
The product you linked to is just laminate flooring. Laminate shows scratches really bad.This cant be fixed without replacing the section.

Agree that it looks tacky in a higher end residential setting. It also has a distinct sound when you walk on it. In my head I just hear "cheap cheap cheap" with every footstep.

Also they do NOT cost the same amount. Hardwood and tile are potentially 2x the cost of laminate. Sounds like your contractor is suggesting a cheaper product in order to pocket the difference.
My research has shown that the porcelain tile is typically $1.89-$3 per sq.ft. and the LVP is $1.89-$4 per sq.ft. so my independent research suggests they are similarly priced. Not to sound like a jerk, but what is your knowledge timeframe on these products, as it is my understanding the LVP has come a long way in the past 2 years. Regarding the link it takes you to a spec page for the following product: "Waterproof Rigid StoneCoreXTMLuxury Vinyl Planks". Not sure how you interpreted that as laminate. Thanks for your insight as it does serve to reinforce the perception of the product.

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Sasquatch
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by Sasquatch » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:01 pm

We just installed Core-Tec XL vinyl planks. So far we really like it. Easy to clean and seems very resistant to dog claw marks.

starkinthesouth
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by starkinthesouth » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:02 pm

FeesR-BullNotBullish wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:10 pm
My preference is wood throughout and tile in the kitchen and bathrooms. When DW and I were house hunting we encountered quite a few homes that had LVP flooring. Initially, I thought the LVP floors looked good. However, after seeing a few LVP floors, I liked it less each time and came to think LVP was tacky.
How long ago were you house hunting?
FeesR-BullNotBullish wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:10 pm
Regarding scratches, I don't think they look good on modern wood floors, and your builder might be tempering your expectations for his product. I installed wood in a previous home and the dog scratched it up pretty quickly. In our current house, the wood is better quality (harder) and doesn't show any scratches. If you go with wood, I suggest insisting on a harder, more scratch resistant wood.

I do not find wood difficult to maintain. We vacuum regularly and mop with wood floor cleaner occasionally. Our house came with wood in the kitchen. We spill things and cat puke sometimes sits when we are working or sleeping. The wood has yet to show ill effects.
I probably overstated the scratches impact on the floor (more in an effort to not flip out if something does happen).
FeesR-BullNotBullish wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:10 pm
For what it's worth, I'll put in a word for carpet, as unfashionable as it has become. I love it especially in our bedroom, and I think it helps dampen sounds.

Congratulations on your new house!
Not doing carpet, as the better half is completely against it. Thanks for your reply and insight!

AlwaysWannaLearn
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by AlwaysWannaLearn » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:04 pm

.....
Last edited by AlwaysWannaLearn on Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

starkinthesouth
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by starkinthesouth » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:08 pm

Sasquatch wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:01 pm
We just installed Core-Tec XL vinyl planks. So far we really like it. Easy to clean and seems very resistant to dog claw marks.
Based on my search, the specs on the product you used seem pretty similar to the product I would use (Same board width, length an wear layer). How long have you had the product? Were you deciding between any other flooring options?

Thanks!

Dottie57
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by Dottie57 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:18 pm

barnaclebob wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:52 pm
Nothing beats real wood for looks and feel.
I think carpeting feels better. Hardwood looks great if a single smooth color. Luxury vinyl can look very good.

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Sasquatch
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by Sasquatch » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:26 pm

It is the 9โ€ plank. Had it down about 6 months now very comfortable and quiet underfoot. We were considering a high end laminate as well. The designer pointed us to the vinyl. They have it in their home on a ranch and has held up real good for them and they have big dogs whereas we have a toy sized dog.

FeesR-BullNotBullish
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by FeesR-BullNotBullish » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:46 pm

starkinthesouth wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:02 pm
FeesR-BullNotBullish wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:10 pm
My preference is wood throughout and tile in the kitchen and bathrooms. When DW and I were house hunting we encountered quite a few homes that had LVP flooring. Initially, I thought the LVP floors looked good. However, after seeing a few LVP floors, I liked it less each time and came to think LVP was tacky.
How long ago were you house hunting?

We were house hunting two years ago and purchased in September, 2016.

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Sasquatch
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by Sasquatch » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:06 pm

FeesR-BullNotBullish wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:46 pm
Initially, I thought the LVP floors looked good. However, after seeing a few LVP floors, I liked it less each time.
We looked at LVP products in the big box stores and I was not impressed. The Core-Tek was much nicer IMHO.

gmc4h232
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by gmc4h232 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:40 pm

starkinthesouth wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:57 pm
gmc4h232 wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:33 pm
The product you linked to is just laminate flooring. Laminate shows scratches really bad.This cant be fixed without replacing the section.

Agree that it looks tacky in a higher end residential setting. It also has a distinct sound when you walk on it. In my head I just hear "cheap cheap cheap" with every footstep.

Also they do NOT cost the same amount. Hardwood and tile are potentially 2x the cost of laminate. Sounds like your contractor is suggesting a cheaper product in order to pocket the difference.
My research has shown that the porcelain tile is typically $1.89-$3 per sq.ft. and the LVP is $1.89-$4 per sq.ft. so my independent research suggests they are similarly priced. Not to sound like a jerk, but what is your knowledge timeframe on these products, as it is my understanding the LVP has come a long way in the past 2 years. Regarding the link it takes you to a spec page for the following product: "Waterproof Rigid StoneCoreXTMLuxury Vinyl Planks". Not sure how you interpreted that as laminate. Thanks for your insight as it does serve to reinforce the perception of the product.
Replace the pvc core with wood fiber and you have laminate flooring. So I will concede that this product is probably one step up from laminate.

Make sure you are comparing installed costs and not just cost for materials. The LVP looks like a snap together system (similar to laminate). I have a very hard time believing that the installed cost of a system like this is comparable to hardwood or especially tile.

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lthenderson
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by lthenderson » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:43 pm

starkinthesouth wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:33 pm
Luxury Vinyl Plank (https://www.alstoninc.com/england-spc-sheet):
Pros: Waterproof, easy to clean, won't chip break or crack, softer material than tile/wood, is not cold (compared to tile)
Cons: Perceived as lower quality, potential can impact the resale price, would be builder's first experience installing the product
Some more cons that I have seen. LVP loses it luster after a number of years especially in high traffic areas. They sell chemicals that help gain some of it back but it never gets back to new. Also, some of it suffers from fading in direct sunlight. Another thing I have seen happen is after someone moves out from a house with LVP installed. Heavy furniture can leave unsightly permanent dents. Finally, with real wood, as long as you can cut a piece of wood to the correct width, you can always patch it and restain. With LVP, unless you buy the exact same product from the same supplier, you are out of luck. Even if you are lucky enough to find the same product from the same supplier, it will be a slightly different color. See the lack of luster and fading mentioned above.

adamthesmythe
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by adamthesmythe » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:01 pm

lthenderson wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:43 pm
starkinthesouth wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:33 pm
Luxury Vinyl Plank (https://www.alstoninc.com/england-spc-sheet):
Pros: Waterproof, easy to clean, won't chip break or crack, softer material than tile/wood, is not cold (compared to tile)
Cons: Perceived as lower quality, potential can impact the resale price, would be builder's first experience installing the product
Some more cons that I have seen. LVP loses it luster after a number of years especially in high traffic areas. They sell chemicals that help gain some of it back but it never gets back to new. Also, some of it suffers from fading in direct sunlight. Another thing I have seen happen is after someone moves out from a house with LVP installed. Heavy furniture can leave unsightly permanent dents. Finally, with real wood, as long as you can cut a piece of wood to the correct width, you can always patch it and restain. With LVP, unless you buy the exact same product from the same supplier, you are out of luck. Even if you are lucky enough to find the same product from the same supplier, it will be a slightly different color. See the lack of luster and fading mentioned above.
A reminder to the OP and everyone else: Keep some leftover tiles, planks or whatever for future repairs.

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fishandgolf
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by fishandgolf » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:28 pm

Congratulations on the new house!

My wife and I are knee deep in the process of planning for a new house; planning now........start to build in early spring 2019

I really like hardwood flooring and will do that in the great room. We live in a log home (almost 18 years and it's time to down size) and we do have .750" hardwood hickory in the great room....and really like it. Our plan it to do the same in our new home......but only in the great room.

The flooring for the rest of the house:

Bedrooms......carpet
Kitchen and baths......Vinyl Plank flooring.

I will never have hardwood flooring in the kitchen. We have friends that do.....and they have grand kids. Those little tykes have spilled Koolaid, milk, etc. in the kitchen. That stuff gets under the flooring and now.............they have ants.....lots of them.

I installed Vinyl Plank Flooring in the kitchen and mud room in our current home and really like it. It's easy to install, quiet, inexpensive (which was not a consideration) and easy to clean............we do like it....but we do not have paws to mark it up..........

Good luck........and don't stress about your choice.........it will work out well.
Last edited by fishandgolf on Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fishandgolf
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by fishandgolf » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:30 pm

A reminder to the OP and everyone else: Keep some leftover tiles, planks or whatever for future repairs.
[/quote]


Excellent recommendation!

4nwestsaylng
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by 4nwestsaylng » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:14 pm

I once lived in Arizona with all tile floor over a slab foundation. There, tile was cool in the summer, but the problem with tile is that it is extremely hard.
Drop a plate on it and it will literally explode, the impact is so hard. If you slip and fall you are guaranteed to break a hip if you can't break your fall.

Full hardwood or engineered hardwood is also hard, but not nearly as bad as tile. As far as scratching, today's hardwoods do come with special coatings to minimize that.

Laminate wood or even the vinyl are not regarded as value additions to a house by real estate professionals. Hardwood floors are definitely factored in to valuation. I am not sure about tile.

I would suggest, if your main floor is a slab foundation, do engineered hardwood on the main floor and hardwood or engineered hardwood on the second floor, no tile, no vinyl. That's just an opinion based upon my experience. I have been impressed by the realistic appearance of laminates, you will see them in grocery stores, food courts, and they are durable, but in the end they are just a photograph of wood on composite.

I think the most expensive and also the best value is the hardwood.

starkinthesouth
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by starkinthesouth » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:34 am

gmc4h232 wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:40 pm
starkinthesouth wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:57 pm
gmc4h232 wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:33 pm
The product you linked to is just laminate flooring. Laminate shows scratches really bad.This cant be fixed without replacing the section.

Agree that it looks tacky in a higher end residential setting. It also has a distinct sound when you walk on it. In my head I just hear "cheap cheap cheap" with every footstep.

Also they do NOT cost the same amount. Hardwood and tile are potentially 2x the cost of laminate. Sounds like your contractor is suggesting a cheaper product in order to pocket the difference.
My research has shown that the porcelain tile is typically $1.89-$3 per sq.ft. and the LVP is $1.89-$4 per sq.ft. so my independent research suggests they are similarly priced. Not to sound like a jerk, but what is your knowledge timeframe on these products, as it is my understanding the LVP has come a long way in the past 2 years. Regarding the link it takes you to a spec page for the following product: "Waterproof Rigid StoneCoreXTMLuxury Vinyl Planks". Not sure how you interpreted that as laminate. Thanks for your insight as it does serve to reinforce the perception of the product.
Replace the pvc core with wood fiber and you have laminate flooring. So I will concede that this product is probably one step up from laminate.

Make sure you are comparing installed costs and not just cost for materials. The LVP looks like a snap together system (similar to laminate). I have a very hard time believing that the installed cost of a system like this is comparable to hardwood or especially tile.
Agreed and thanks for the input. The LVP is certainly easier (cheaper) to install.

starkinthesouth
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by starkinthesouth » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:35 am

lthenderson wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:43 pm
starkinthesouth wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:33 pm
Luxury Vinyl Plank (https://www.alstoninc.com/england-spc-sheet):
Pros: Waterproof, easy to clean, won't chip break or crack, softer material than tile/wood, is not cold (compared to tile)
Cons: Perceived as lower quality, potential can impact the resale price, would be builder's first experience installing the product
Some more cons that I have seen. LVP loses it luster after a number of years especially in high traffic areas. They sell chemicals that help gain some of it back but it never gets back to new. Also, some of it suffers from fading in direct sunlight. Another thing I have seen happen is after someone moves out from a house with LVP installed. Heavy furniture can leave unsightly permanent dents. Finally, with real wood, as long as you can cut a piece of wood to the correct width, you can always patch it and restain. With LVP, unless you buy the exact same product from the same supplier, you are out of luck. Even if you are lucky enough to find the same product from the same supplier, it will be a slightly different color. See the lack of luster and fading mentioned above.
Thanks for the insight, it was something that we had heard but for whatever reason didn't put a lot of stock into the color fading. Also good to hear about the dents, although that seems less likely with the stone (concrete) core, it is still possible.

starkinthesouth
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by starkinthesouth » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:37 am

fishandgolf wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:28 pm
Congratulations on the new house!

My wife and I are knee deep in the process of planning for a new house; planning now........start to build in early spring 2019

I really like hardwood flooring and will do that in the great room. We live in a log home (almost 18 years and it's time to down size) and we do have .750" hardwood hickory in the great room....and really like it. Our plan it to do the same in our new home......but only in the great room.

The flooring for the rest of the house:

Bedrooms......carpet
Kitchen and baths......Vinyl Plank flooring.

I will never have hardwood flooring in the kitchen. We have friends that do.....and they have grand kids. Those little tykes have spilled Koolaid, milk, etc. in the kitchen. That stuff gets under the flooring and now.............they have ants.....lots of them.

I installed Vinyl Plank Flooring in the kitchen and mud room in our current home and really like it. It's easy to install, quiet, inexpensive (which was not a consideration) and easy to clean............we do like it....but we do not have paws to mark it up..........

Good luck........and don't stress about your choice.........it will work out well.
Thanks for your sharing your experience and opinion! I agree that I wouldn't do hardwood in the kitchen.

starkinthesouth
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by starkinthesouth » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:38 am

4nwestsaylng wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:14 pm
I once lived in Arizona with all tile floor over a slab foundation. There, tile was cool in the summer, but the problem with tile is that it is extremely hard.
Drop a plate on it and it will literally explode, the impact is so hard. If you slip and fall you are guaranteed to break a hip if you can't break your fall.

Full hardwood or engineered hardwood is also hard, but not nearly as bad as tile. As far as scratching, today's hardwoods do come with special coatings to minimize that.

Laminate wood or even the vinyl are not regarded as value additions to a house by real estate professionals. Hardwood floors are definitely factored in to valuation. I am not sure about tile.

I would suggest, if your main floor is a slab foundation, do engineered hardwood on the main floor and hardwood or engineered hardwood on the second floor, no tile, no vinyl. That's just an opinion based upon my experience. I have been impressed by the realistic appearance of laminates, you will see them in grocery stores, food courts, and they are durable, but in the end they are just a photograph of wood on composite.

I think the most expensive and also the best value is the hardwood.
Thanks for your insight!

starkinthesouth
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by starkinthesouth » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:41 am

Update: I am leaning towards the Porcelain Tile (downstairs) / Wood (upstairs), although it isn't final, that is where my head is at now. Thanks to everyone for their responses and insight. Certainly did not disappoint in bringing up great points and advise.

barnaclebob
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by barnaclebob » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:16 am

fishandgolf wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:28 pm
I will never have hardwood flooring in the kitchen. We have friends that do.....and they have grand kids. Those little tykes have spilled Koolaid, milk, etc. in the kitchen. That stuff gets under the flooring and now.............they have ants.....lots of them.
Then something is wrong with the install, gaps must have formed, or they didn't actually get real hardwood. We had hardwood in our old kitchen and while I probably wouldn't recommend that if possible it wasn't a big deal with spills. The only issues were it showed dirt more than tile and some of the grain got embedded with dirt that couldn't be cleaned out with normal means. It still looked fine though.

Mom 2 Groms
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by Mom 2 Groms » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:29 am

We have built two houses in the past 6ish years. I'm not sure the exact type of product we put down on the floors - it was some kind of engineered wood.

In the first house - the floor installed was snap in. I hated it. It sounded hollow with every step we took in the house. There were other quality issues with it, and the builder ended up replacing it about 6 months after we moved in. We chose a glued down engineered wood. This was a much better choice for us, and it felt sturdy to walk on. We sold this house after living in it for almost 2 years and we had multiple offers in 2 days.

Our second house - we learned from our mistake and installed a glued down engineered wood from the beginning. We've been happy with our choice. We have 2 young boys and a small dog. The floor has held up well.

In both homes, we had the wood product installed on the entirety of the first floor including the kitchen, excluding the bathrooms. In the second home, we have the wood product installed on a hall upstairs as well. If you install wood or tile upstairs - have your builder do something about the noise that will come from people walking upstairs. Carpet dampens the sound while wood or tile seem to intensify it.

mouses
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by mouses » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:03 am

Is there no picture of what the OP is considering? A spec sheet is not all that useful, to me, anyway.

As an older person, I would never have tile installed. See, hip, skull, teeth, etc.

HeartinAK
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by HeartinAK » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:44 pm

Going through this decision ourselves. After spending 45 days on tile, we are removing it from the equation. Feet and back were killing me, even with good slippers.

We have decided on vinyl plank in the kitchen and dining. We have 2 dogs, 1 is 110 pounds. It is the right option for us with our very busy household.

Good luck in your decision.

Jules

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fishandgolf
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by fishandgolf » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:59 pm

barnaclebob wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:16 am
fishandgolf wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:28 pm
I will never have hardwood flooring in the kitchen. We have friends that do.....and they have grand kids. Those little tykes have spilled Koolaid, milk, etc. in the kitchen. That stuff gets under the flooring and now.............they have ants.....lots of them.
Then something is wrong with the install, gaps must have formed, or they didn't actually get real hardwood. We had hardwood in our old kitchen and while I probably wouldn't recommend that if possible it wasn't a big deal with spills. The only issues were it showed dirt more than tile and some of the grain got embedded with dirt that couldn't be cleaned out with normal means. It still looked fine though.
Their flooring was definitely hardwood.......750" thick hickory. They live in south central Wisconsin and during humid weather as well as winter.....the wood flooring expands.....and contracts. When this happens, no matter what you have done to the install....the cracks....or gaps spread allowing spilled stuff to get under the wood......nearly impossible to control this.... That is why I would never recommend hardwood flooring in the kitchen.........looks great but it is not waterproof....or spill proof......

stan1
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by stan1 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:10 pm

In my area people in $2M+ houses with young kids and dogs are putting LVT/LVP on their slab foundations. Their attitude is they will replace with wood when the kids are older or if they have decide to sell the house. The LVT/LVP products are not cheap. Cost per square foot with professional install may be similar for a high quality porcelain, engineered wood, or LVT/LVP (again -- on a slab foundation which often requires a lot of prep even with new construction). Sometimes you can find a good deal on a porcelain tile you like. I'd be much more cautious about a good deal on a wood floor.

discman017
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by discman017 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:44 pm

We installed hardwood in our house and love it. After doing many, many hours of research and evaluating 100+ samples, here are some things I learned...

When it comes to scratches, carefully consider the finish. If you get prefinished wood (typically aluminum oxide), scratches will be white and very obvious. See photos in a Google search: https://www.google.com/search?q=hardwoo ... s&tbm=isch.

After looking at many, many prefinished samples, we eventually decided to install unfinished wood and then finish it ourselves with a hardwax oil finish called Rubio Monocoat. It looks great, it's easy to apply (we did it ourselves), it hardly shows scratches, and it's easy to spot repair. It's also much less glossy than polyurethane.

That's my #1 tip. As for the wood, it's really a personal preference. Harder is better, but I think hardness is less important for long-range durability than the finish. We got long-length hickory and love it: https://www.builddirect.com/p/Walking-H ... --15009926

Think about how long you're going to have the wood. If you install unfinished wood and you want refinish it in 20 years (because it looks bad or just because you want a different look), you can sand it and refinish it. The factory-prefinished wood is much harder to sand.

Overall, my sense is that hardwood consumers worry too much about the short term (what does my wood look like when I first install it) and not nearly enough about the long term (what scratches will look like, ease of doing small repairs, refinishing the whole floor).

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CaliJim
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by CaliJim » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:59 pm

These are complex interior design and budget choices for sure.

Keep other elements of your interior design in mind too... are you going for a rustic, traditional, contemporary, Mediterranean, modern, neo-classical look? The floor should support, not clash, with the rest of your furnishings.

We wanted a modern look. Because of allergies, carpet was OUT. So, we choose wide plank engineered hardwood for aesthetics and dimensional stability, and large format porcelain tile for aesthetics and durability. We considered stone tile, but stone often patina's with age unless you are meticulous in keeping it sealed, and we wanted hard wearing and EASY to maintain.

Product we used:
-Bedrooms: Provenza Engineered Pre-finished (oil finish, no aluminum oxide) Hardwood 6.25" wide plank flooring
-Everywhere else: Ergon Stone Project Porcelain Ceramic Tile 12x24, including shower walls and tub surrounds.

Tile: No chipping yet...the modern porcelain tiles are TOUGH. As I understand it, they are fired under high temps and high PRESSURE (to keep them flat.) Should last a life time.

Hardwood: The engineered hardwood is not quite as tough wearing. I have touched up small cat claw scratches w/ poly and an artist's brush and they disappear. Looks great. It can be sanded and refinished once, maybe twice I think.... after that it's pull up and replace.

Note: in-home polyurethane finished solid hardwood flooring should probably be lightly machine screened and recoated fairly often to reduce the need for deep sanding and refinishing. If I was doing narrow plank unfinished hardwood, I would finish with oil and wax, not poly, as in the previous post.

One of the yoga studio's I visit has LVP. High traffic area, lots of sweat, takes a beating, feels good underfoot, looks OK in a commercial environment where wood would require way too much maintenance. But, I wouldn't use LVP it in my primary home if I could afford better. In a rental - for sure LVP makes great sense - but not my own home - except maybe, just maybe - in the kitchen. Personal preference.

My wife worried that porcelain would be too hard underfoot in the kitchen. But now that we have it, she has not complained once. YMMV. Runners and kitchen mats at workstations can address any fatigue issues.
-calijim- | | For more info, click this Wiki

starkinthesouth
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by starkinthesouth » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:58 pm

Just want to thank everyone for all the advise, and insight. We have decided to go with the tile/wood.

4nwestsaylng
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by 4nwestsaylng » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:38 pm

discman017 wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:44 pm
We installed hardwood in our house and love it. After doing many, many hours of research and evaluating 100+ samples, here are some things I learned...

When it comes to scratches, carefully consider the finish. If you get prefinished wood (typically aluminum oxide), scratches will be white and very obvious. See photos in a Google search: https://www.google.com/search?q=hardwoo ... s&tbm=isch.

After looking at many, many prefinished samples, we eventually decided to install unfinished wood and then finish it ourselves with a hardwax oil finish called Rubio Monocoat. It looks great, it's easy to apply (we did it ourselves), it hardly shows scratches, and it's easy to spot repair. It's also much less glossy than polyurethane.

That's my #1 tip. As for the wood, it's really a personal preference. Harder is better, but I think hardness is less important for long-range durability than the finish. We got long-length hickory and love it: https://www.builddirect.com/p/Walking-H ... --15009926

Think about how long you're going to have the wood. If you install unfinished wood and you want refinish it in 20 years (because it looks bad or just because you want a different look), you can sand it and refinish it. The factory-prefinished wood is much harder to sand.

Overall, my sense is that hardwood consumers worry too much about the short term (what does my wood look like when I first install it) and not nearly enough about the long term (what scratches will look like, ease of doing small repairs, refinishing the whole floor).
Very good tip, I did not realize that the hardwax oil finish would look better and easy to repair. Those shiny prefinished aluminum oxide hardwoods at first as you say do appear to be the easy way, but short term. I will remember your tip!

staythecourse
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by staythecourse » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:47 am

I designed our new home couple years ago from scratch and my advice is if it is a high end home don't do laminate. Simple as that. No matter your feelings or lack there of folks are going to notice it is laminate and laminate= cheap in their minds. Doesn't mean it is true, but that is ALWAYS what folks are going to think. There is a reason the builders are guiding you away from the choice of laminates. If you have a custom builder then listen to them when they feel strongly about x, y, or z. They do it for a living. They likely will only speak strongly for a reason.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.โ€ | -Jack Bogle

goodlifer
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by goodlifer » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:16 am

I know I'm late to the party, but just wanted to add a few things. I have hardwood floors. I get sun fading, dents, cracks, and scratches too. It isn't just an LVP problem. It takes a long time for a scratch to become "character" and in the mean time, you are staring at a jagged scratch in your floor. And I know you have already decided, but I'm just putting it out there that builders will only offer you the cheapest and easiest options. You have to push them for something better if that is what you want. Our contractor told us our options for our bathroom floor was ceramic or vinyl. No, I want travertine. After some back and forth, I found out that he just didn't want to go through the hassle of installing travertine. Too bad for him because I would be stuck with something I don't want for years. By the way, I love the travertine so much that I would redo all of my flooring if we didn't already plan to move in 4 years. Speaking of which, if you don't plan on moving then resale value is a moot point for you. Get what you really want and not what you think someone else might want in a few years. I'm considering LVP for our lake house, and I don't do cheap or ugly.

If you really like the scratched up character look of wood, you might want to look into reclaimed wood for your floors. I think I would be much more relaxed about my floors if I had reclaimed wood. We refinished our hardwood last year and it only took a few weeks for our dog to scratch it up.

neilpilot
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Location: Memphis area

Re: Flooring for New House

Post by neilpilot » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:38 am

goodlifer wrote: โ†‘
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:16 am
I know I'm late to the party, but just wanted to add a few things. I have hardwood floors. I get sun fading, dents, cracks, and scratches too. It isn't just an LVP problem. It takes a long time for a scratch to become "character" and in the mean time, you are staring at a jagged scratch in your floor. And I know you have already decided, but I'm just putting it out there that builders will only offer you the cheapest and easiest options. You have to push them for something better if that is what you want. Our contractor told us our options for our bathroom floor was ceramic or vinyl. No, I want travertine. After some back and forth, I found out that he just didn't want to go through the hassle of installing travertine. Too bad for him because I would be stuck with something I don't want for years. By the way, I love the travertine so much that I would redo all of my flooring if we didn't already plan to move in 4 years. Speaking of which, if you don't plan on moving then resale value is a moot point for you. Get what you really want and not what you think someone else might want in a few years. I'm considering LVP for our lake house, and I don't do cheap or ugly.

If you really like the scratched up character look of wood, you might want to look into reclaimed wood for your floors. I think I would be much more relaxed about my floors if I had reclaimed wood. We refinished our hardwood last year and it only took a few weeks for our dog to scratch it up.
Must depend on the wood.....I self-installed Bruce prefinished hardwood throughout our 2nd floor 9 years ago, and haven't yet seen fading, dents, cracks, and scratches. I'm sure that may happen eventually, but so far still looks good as new.

OTOH I'm in the process of replacing old carpet with LPV in one room over the garage, since I need waterproof there.

goodlifer
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by goodlifer » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:44 am

neilpilot wrote: โ†‘
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:38 am
goodlifer wrote: โ†‘
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:16 am
I know I'm late to the party, but just wanted to add a few things. I have hardwood floors. I get sun fading, dents, cracks, and scratches too. It isn't just an LVP problem. It takes a long time for a scratch to become "character" and in the mean time, you are staring at a jagged scratch in your floor. And I know you have already decided, but I'm just putting it out there that builders will only offer you the cheapest and easiest options. You have to push them for something better if that is what you want. Our contractor told us our options for our bathroom floor was ceramic or vinyl. No, I want travertine. After some back and forth, I found out that he just didn't want to go through the hassle of installing travertine. Too bad for him because I would be stuck with something I don't want for years. By the way, I love the travertine so much that I would redo all of my flooring if we didn't already plan to move in 4 years. Speaking of which, if you don't plan on moving then resale value is a moot point for you. Get what you really want and not what you think someone else might want in a few years. I'm considering LVP for our lake house, and I don't do cheap or ugly.

If you really like the scratched up character look of wood, you might want to look into reclaimed wood for your floors. I think I would be much more relaxed about my floors if I had reclaimed wood. We refinished our hardwood last year and it only took a few weeks for our dog to scratch it up.
Must depend on the wood.....I self-installed Bruce prefinished hardwood throughout our 2nd floor 9 years ago, and haven't yet seen fading, dents, cracks, and scratches. I'm sure that may happen eventually, but so far still looks good as new.

OTOH I'm in the process of replacing old carpet with LPV in one room over the garage, since I need waterproof there.

My floors are about 15 years old, probably contractor grade but a higher end home so "better" contractor grade. My daughter dropped a can of Spaghettios in the kitchen and it made a stupidly deep dent in the floor. Things like that and spills are going to happen in a kitchen, so no more wood floors there for me once this floor is completely shot. We also have a lot of temperature and humidity changes in the Midwest, and that just ages the heck out of wood.

I forgot to mention OP that wood flooring can come in different thicknesses and widths, so make sure you are getting exactly what you want. My parents are getting estimates for new flooring and one contractor will only give a quote for the thinnest planks, and told my mom that Shaw only makes one size plank and the finish thickness is the same on everything. Five seconds on Google would prove that this contractor shouldn't be trusted.

neilpilot
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by neilpilot » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:52 am

goodlifer wrote: โ†‘
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:44 am
neilpilot wrote: โ†‘
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:38 am
goodlifer wrote: โ†‘
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:16 am
I know I'm late to the party, but just wanted to add a few things. I have hardwood floors. I get sun fading, dents, cracks, and scratches too. It isn't just an LVP problem. It takes a long time for a scratch to become "character" and in the mean time, you are staring at a jagged scratch in your floor. And I know you have already decided, but I'm just putting it out there that builders will only offer you the cheapest and easiest options. You have to push them for something better if that is what you want. Our contractor told us our options for our bathroom floor was ceramic or vinyl. No, I want travertine. After some back and forth, I found out that he just didn't want to go through the hassle of installing travertine. Too bad for him because I would be stuck with something I don't want for years. By the way, I love the travertine so much that I would redo all of my flooring if we didn't already plan to move in 4 years. Speaking of which, if you don't plan on moving then resale value is a moot point for you. Get what you really want and not what you think someone else might want in a few years. I'm considering LVP for our lake house, and I don't do cheap or ugly.

If you really like the scratched up character look of wood, you might want to look into reclaimed wood for your floors. I think I would be much more relaxed about my floors if I had reclaimed wood. We refinished our hardwood last year and it only took a few weeks for our dog to scratch it up.
Must depend on the wood.....I self-installed Bruce prefinished hardwood throughout our 2nd floor 9 years ago, and haven't yet seen fading, dents, cracks, and scratches. I'm sure that may happen eventually, but so far still looks good as new.

OTOH I'm in the process of replacing old carpet with LPV in one room over the garage, since I need waterproof there.

My floors are about 15 years old, probably contractor grade but a higher end home so "better" contractor grade. My daughter dropped a can of Spaghettios in the kitchen and it made a stupidly deep dent in the floor. Things like that and spills are going to happen in a kitchen, so no more wood floors there for me once this floor is completely shot. We also have a lot of temperature and humidity changes in the Midwest, and that just ages the heck out of wood.

I forgot to mention OP that wood flooring can come in different thicknesses and widths, so make sure you are getting exactly what you want. My parents are getting estimates for new flooring and one contractor will only give a quote for the thinnest planks, and told my mom that Shaw only makes one size plank and the finish thickness is the same on everything. Five seconds on Google would prove that this contractor shouldn't be trusted.
That may explain the difference in performance. I don't believe that Shaw makes solid hardwood flooring, just the engineered variety. That's a very different type of floor that I have never considered.

My flooring consists of 3/4" solid hardwood of varying widths, depending on room. I put the same type of floor in our last house, and it looked great 18 years later when we sold that home.

goodlifer
Posts: 396
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by goodlifer » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:06 am

neilpilot wrote: โ†‘
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:52 am
goodlifer wrote: โ†‘
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:44 am
neilpilot wrote: โ†‘
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:38 am
goodlifer wrote: โ†‘
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:16 am
I know I'm late to the party, but just wanted to add a few things. I have hardwood floors. I get sun fading, dents, cracks, and scratches too. It isn't just an LVP problem. It takes a long time for a scratch to become "character" and in the mean time, you are staring at a jagged scratch in your floor. And I know you have already decided, but I'm just putting it out there that builders will only offer you the cheapest and easiest options. You have to push them for something better if that is what you want. Our contractor told us our options for our bathroom floor was ceramic or vinyl. No, I want travertine. After some back and forth, I found out that he just didn't want to go through the hassle of installing travertine. Too bad for him because I would be stuck with something I don't want for years. By the way, I love the travertine so much that I would redo all of my flooring if we didn't already plan to move in 4 years. Speaking of which, if you don't plan on moving then resale value is a moot point for you. Get what you really want and not what you think someone else might want in a few years. I'm considering LVP for our lake house, and I don't do cheap or ugly.

If you really like the scratched up character look of wood, you might want to look into reclaimed wood for your floors. I think I would be much more relaxed about my floors if I had reclaimed wood. We refinished our hardwood last year and it only took a few weeks for our dog to scratch it up.
Must depend on the wood.....I self-installed Bruce prefinished hardwood throughout our 2nd floor 9 years ago, and haven't yet seen fading, dents, cracks, and scratches. I'm sure that may happen eventually, but so far still looks good as new.

OTOH I'm in the process of replacing old carpet with LPV in one room over the garage, since I need waterproof there.

My floors are about 15 years old, probably contractor grade but a higher end home so "better" contractor grade. My daughter dropped a can of Spaghettios in the kitchen and it made a stupidly deep dent in the floor. Things like that and spills are going to happen in a kitchen, so no more wood floors there for me once this floor is completely shot. We also have a lot of temperature and humidity changes in the Midwest, and that just ages the heck out of wood.

I forgot to mention OP that wood flooring can come in different thicknesses and widths, so make sure you are getting exactly what you want. My parents are getting estimates for new flooring and one contractor will only give a quote for the thinnest planks, and told my mom that Shaw only makes one size plank and the finish thickness is the same on everything. Five seconds on Google would prove that this contractor shouldn't be trusted.
That may explain the difference in performance. I don't believe that Shaw makes solid hardwood flooring, just the engineered variety. That's a very different type of floor that I have never considered.

My flooring consists of 3/4" solid hardwood of varying widths, depending on room. I put the same type of floor in our last house, and it looked great 18 years later when we sold that home.
Right about Shaw. My parents are considering all flooring types just to see what type of value they can get. This contractor was telling them that all engineered planks only come in one thickness for the finish, when I can see that it varies between 2mm to 6mm. That makes a huge difference. People need to educate themselves and demand to get exactly what they want or they will be stuck with whatever is most profitable for the installer. Just to clarify, my floors are hardwood. My parents are looking at hardwood, engineered, and tile.

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hand
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by hand » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:16 am

starkinthesouth wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:33 pm
Tile/Wood:
Pros: Classic flooring option, High resale value, adds character with scratches etc, is the product the builder recommends, unlikely to crack- tile is PEI5
Cons: Tile can chip or crack, Wood requires more maintenance, wood can scratch etc (also a pro)

Luxury Vinyl Plank (https://www.alstoninc.com/england-spc-sheet):
Pros: Waterproof, easy to clean, won't chip break or crack, softer material than tile/wood, is not cold (compared to tile)
Cons: Perceived as lower quality, potential can impact the resale price, would be builder's first experience installing the product
Consider splitting the difference - porcelain wood look tile. All the benefits (and negatives) of tile, but reads as wood (though obvious to the touch that it is not wood. I've been happy with it in a basement application and would use again anywhere waterproof is required.

HornedToad
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Re: Flooring for New House

Post by HornedToad » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:33 am

Tile that looks like wood, called Wood Porcelain Tile is super popular now and I like it's look as well. Gives you the durability of tile with the look of hardwood since hardwood can scrape, dent, warp.

Here's an example: https://www.armstrongflooring.com/resid ... -wood.html

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