free dinner investing seminar

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VictoriaF
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by VictoriaF » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:20 pm

pkcrafter wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:52 pm
Ah, Victoria, your dinner description sounds far worse that the pitch one has to endure. Maybe they should say, "Stay and listen and sign up for the old equity indexed annuity and we won't make you eat the dinner!"

Paul
Ah, Paul, but not having to eat their dinner is too enticing and could get me in trouble.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:56 pm

BlackStrat wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:50 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:11 pm
Equity indexed, to be precise. You know the kind...where you get "the stock market return with none of the risk". Don't get too excited when they show you the chart comparing their equity indexed annuity's performance with the S&P500...spoiler alert: the chart they show you of the S&P500 index fund's return doesn't include dividends.
ignorant question - what happens to the 'unused' balance of an annuity when you pass? Is there anything left for your heirs?
Very good question. It depends on the annuity. Some can have beneficiary or survivor benefits and others do not. Understand however that life is full of tradeoffs. Do you think you'd pay more or less for annuity that has a beneficiary/survivor benefit?

That's right. You'd pay more because it's an additional benefit. A rider, if you will.

Want an inflation adjustment (another rider)? Think that's free? Guess again. It will cost you something extra.

Now here's the thing. When I say it "costs" you something, that doesn't have to mean as in an "upfront cost", it can be an ongoing cost. In other words, it isn't necessarily that an annuity that costs you $100,000 without a death benefit would cost you $125,000 with a death benefit. It could just as easily be that one $100,000 annuity without a death benefit provides $1000 a month in income for life, while a $100,00 annuity with a death benefit might only provide $900 a month for life.*

*these examples are just illustrations and in no way are to provide an accurate difference between annuities with and without riders. Please consult your friendly insurance salesman for all illustrations. Prepare yourself to read a very lengthy contract, if an indexed annuity, possibly on the order of several hundred pages. Don't sign on the dotted line unless you understand 100% what you're buying. I can't tell you the number of people I've heard call into financial talkshows and post on bogleheads that they bought (as in past tense) and annuity and are wondering if it was a mistake. The time to realize that is before, not after you purchase an annuity.

But do you see how the rider costs you something? Not necessarily more upfront, but rather less ongoing.

This doesn't mean additional riders aren't worth it, or aren't a good deal. It's just a tradeoff. The question is "What is important to you?" Whatever it is, you should expect it to cost you something.

If you're unclear about what type of annuity you're being sold (most are sold, not bought with the exception of the SPIA or single premium immediate annuity which has a tiny commission, unlike the indexed annuity variety) consult stan the annuity man at http://www.stantheannuityman.com/

Hope that helps.
"Invest we must." -- Jack Bogle | “The purpose of investing is not to simply optimise returns and make yourself rich. The purpose is not to die poor.” -- William Bernstein

blmarsha123
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by blmarsha123 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:27 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:06 pm
blmarsha123 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:55 pm
Mulling over another plate licking opportunity. (I mean, Exclusive Dinner Event to learn How to Reduce Your Taxes and Properly Use Your Assets in Retirement). Later this month at one of the local legend steak houses. (The coach maybe still trying to win without the QB?) Main entree choices are 8 oz filet, 12 oz NY strip, roasted chicken and salmon. Also included, house or Caesar, sides and dessert with coffee service.
Apart from the psychological stress of dealing with hard sales, this dinner is unappetizing. The beef and chicken are probably OK. The salmon is likely farmed and loaded with drugs. The Caesar salad has this horrible crunchy stuff and lettuce that went all white. The desert is the type of food that all diets agree is harmful for your health. And coffee at dinner will disturb your night sleep.

The worst: the seminar organizers can make a video of you licking a plate and then blackmail you into buying their products.

Victoria
Which one turned you off so -- Elway's or Shanahan's?

And I've never been to a hard sell. Just a night out, free dinner, and interesting conversation with people I'll likely never see again. But I guess too much for some people. Different strokes and all.

averagedude
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by averagedude » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:40 pm

Ive always heard these dinners are at decent restraunts, but they always serve rubber chickens. The food is about as bad as the products they are selling.

neilpilot
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by neilpilot » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:58 pm

averagedude wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:40 pm
Ive always heard these dinners are at decent restraunts, but they always serve rubber chickens. The food is about as bad as the products they are selling.
Not my experience

averagedude
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by averagedude » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:08 pm

neilpilot wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:58 pm
averagedude wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:40 pm
Ive always heard these dinners are at decent restraunts, but they always serve rubber chickens. The food is about as bad as the products they are selling.
Not my experience
Please tell me. What was better. The food or the products they were selling.

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:29 pm

averagedude wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:40 pm
Ive always heard these dinners are at decent restraunts, but they always serve rubber chickens. The food is about as bad as the products they are selling.
Then you haven't even bothered to read this thread before making such a comment. "You've always heard?" That's a great way to preface your statement....
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:31 pm

averagedude wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:08 pm
neilpilot wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:58 pm
averagedude wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:40 pm
Ive always heard these dinners are at decent restraunts, but they always serve rubber chickens. The food is about as bad as the products they are selling.
Not my experience
Please tell me. What was better. The food or the products they were selling.
I can't speak for neilpilot, but the food has been fantastic and the sales pitches entertaining. Dinner and a show!! :sharebeer

Why on earth would I care about what they were selling?? That had nothing to do with my motivation for attending.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

Housedoc
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Housedoc » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:22 am

Buddy I work out with and his wife join us for free dinner at some of the finest places in town. We love asking those expense vs return questions. Annuity dinners the best to analyze. We all can say no. Been to a few multiple times. If they mail them we will come....HA

nova1968
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by nova1968 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:25 am

delete
Last edited by nova1968 on Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

BlackStrat
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by BlackStrat » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:26 am

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:56 pm
BlackStrat wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:50 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:11 pm
Equity indexed, to be precise. You know the kind...where you get "the stock market return with none of the risk". Don't get too excited when they show you the chart comparing their equity indexed annuity's performance with the S&P500...spoiler alert: the chart they show you of the S&P500 index fund's return doesn't include dividends.
ignorant question - what happens to the 'unused' balance of an annuity when you pass? Is there anything left for your heirs?
Very good question.
.......
.......
Hope that helps.
That does help. I was at one of these dinners and saw a similar chart comparing S&P with the presenter's 'solution' (an annuity of some unspecified sort) and immediately thought that he was comparing apples with oranges (and that was without your point to the S&P returns excluding dividends).

Anyway, I told my wife 'never argue with a man who is about to buy you a steak'!

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:20 pm

BlackStrat wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:26 am
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:56 pm
BlackStrat wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:50 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:11 pm
Equity indexed, to be precise. You know the kind...where you get "the stock market return with none of the risk". Don't get too excited when they show you the chart comparing their equity indexed annuity's performance with the S&P500...spoiler alert: the chart they show you of the S&P500 index fund's return doesn't include dividends.
ignorant question - what happens to the 'unused' balance of an annuity when you pass? Is there anything left for your heirs?
Very good question.
.......
.......
Hope that helps.
That does help. I was at one of these dinners and saw a similar chart comparing S&P with the presenter's 'solution' (an annuity of some unspecified sort) and immediately thought that he was comparing apples with oranges (and that was without your point to the S&P returns excluding dividends).

Anyway, I told my wife 'never argue with a man who is about to buy you a steak'!
that's very funny. But remember, it's not really the salesperson buying you the steak. It's the other people around you listening to the presentation who sign up for the salesperson's annuity. They're the ones who bought your dinner.
"Invest we must." -- Jack Bogle | “The purpose of investing is not to simply optimise returns and make yourself rich. The purpose is not to die poor.” -- William Bernstein

Fallible
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by Fallible » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:21 pm

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:20 pm
BlackStrat wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:26 am
...
Anyway, I told my wife 'never argue with a man who is about to buy you a steak'!
that's very funny. But remember, it's not really the salesperson buying you the steak. It's the other people around you listening to the presentation who sign up for the salesperson's annuity. They're the ones who bought your dinner.
I think this is an important point to be made. Suddenly, the steaks don't taste quite the same...tainted maybe?
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FIREchief
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by FIREchief » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:11 pm

Fallible wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:21 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:20 pm
BlackStrat wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:26 am
...
Anyway, I told my wife 'never argue with a man who is about to buy you a steak'!
that's very funny. But remember, it's not really the salesperson buying you the steak. It's the other people around you listening to the presentation who sign up for the salesperson's annuity. They're the ones who bought your dinner.
I think this is an important point to be made. Suddenly, the steaks don't taste quite the same...tainted maybe?
Oh c'mon. The steaks still taste fantastic! Why is it that so many people can't just enjoy a free, delicious filet' mignon without trying to find some reason to not be happy? :confused
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:15 pm

Housedoc wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:22 am
Buddy I work out with and his wife join us for free dinner at some of the finest places in town. We love asking those expense vs return questions. Annuity dinners the best to analyze. We all can say no. Been to a few multiple times. If they mail them we will come....HA
Now I feel a new sense of inspiration. There is one particular fixed index annuity place that I attended that still sends me invitations. They served up the biggest, best bacon wrapped Filet Mignon at a high end steak house near my house. Cocktails were free as well. I have ignored the repeat invites, perhaps until just now! :sharebeer
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

RickBoglehead
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by RickBoglehead » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:49 am

Just like free vacations with a condo pitch, I avoid these like the plague, even getting removed from future mailings and asking the source from where they got my name.

AARP, which we do not belong to, will rent your name to anyone. If you belong, ask to be marked Do Not Rent.

Reputable mailers use the DMA's Mail Preference Service. You can also be put on their Deceased, Do Not Contact list.

Disreputable mailers don't care.

I would be very concerned if an elderly parent was going to these.

neilpilot
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by neilpilot » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:08 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:49 am
Just like free vacations with a condo pitch, I avoid these like the plague, even getting removed from future mailings and asking the source from where they got my name.

AARP, which we do not belong to, will rent your name to anyone. If you belong, ask to be marked Do Not Rent.

Reputable mailers use the DMA's Mail Preference Service. You can also be put on their Deceased, Do Not Contact list.

Disreputable mailers don't care.

I would be very concerned if an elderly parent was going to these.
Well I'm an elderly parent and sometimes go for a nice steak dinner. No need to be concerned.

RickBoglehead
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by RickBoglehead » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:30 am

neilpilot wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:08 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:49 am
Just like free vacations with a condo pitch, I avoid these like the plague, even getting removed from future mailings and asking the source from where they got my name.

AARP, which we do not belong to, will rent your name to anyone. If you belong, ask to be marked Do Not Rent.

Reputable mailers use the DMA's Mail Preference Service. You can also be put on their Deceased, Do Not Contact list.

Disreputable mailers don't care.

I would be very concerned if an elderly parent was going to these.
Well I'm an elderly parent and sometimes go for a nice steak dinner. No need to be concerned.
You're not my parent. I can tell you that if I heard my mother was considering going to one of these, I'd be all over it. She has bought the $1,500 vacuum, the knives sold by "poor college kids", not negotiated on a new car purchase (because you can't), ... Gullible is her middle name.

My in-laws didn't know a mutual fund from a green bean.

pkcrafter
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by pkcrafter » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:36 am

For you free dinner pros who enjoy the dinners and never sign up, if you keep that up the sales people may see that new sign-ups aren't covering the cost of dinner and they will have to offer something more tempting. Keep up the good work. :happy

Paul
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:48 pm

Maybe with the stock market noise, a few more free dinner's may be just the distraction some folks need. DW and I just attended one last night at the best Italian restaurant in our area. We had never been there before, but DW had been wanting to try it.

One of the best yet! Ceasar salad, best lasagna I've ever had and a delicious Cannoli for desert. This was one of those high end places where they make your desert plate look like a work of art. Some folks were drinking wine as well, but I stuck to a coke since I was driving.

The presenter was selling financial planning (they never call it that, it's more like "full life retirement realization optimization management" or something like that). Five pillars, blah, blah, blah..... Estate planning, LTC, investing, etc.

He butchered the estate planning part. Said everything should transfer via POD/TOD/beneficiary designation with the standard "probate is evil" comments. No mention of asset protections. Didn't seem to understand POA vs. trustee, living will vs. medical POA vs. HIPPA release, etc.

Fairly accurate LTC scary stories, but as usual, no real solutions other than "have more money."

I give him a C- for the investing stuff (highest grade I've given), since he actually included dividends in his passive vs. other chart. Of course, his cherry picked example started in 2000, like they always seem to. His comparison portfolio was undefined, but likely the product of data mining to find the optimal allocations between 2000 and 2016 (which is likely when he put this presentation together).

Looks like he wanted 1% AUM to "help" people, which would not include the kickbacks he would get from referring clients to financial advisors, estate lawyers, insurance/annuity salespersons, etc. Pretty standard layered approach to suck a person's assets dry.

At the end when he was issuing his altar call free consultation invite, he actually suggested that there are three types of people who should probably not schedule a meeting. I can't remember the third, but I was two of them. "If you just looked at the invite and thought you would like to get a free dinner at this fine restaurant, and think I'm a nice guy but nothing else," and "if you are a do it yourselfer who doesn't want 'help" with these things." Kind of refreshing. He didn't use the actual word "plate licker," but obviously knew we were out there.

He promised to keep it to an hour and actually wrapped it up in about 55 minutes. He then had his assistant collect our forms while we were eating our salads and promptly left us to enjoy our outstanding meals. Probably the second most enjoyable one I've been to! :beer
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

bsteiner
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by bsteiner » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:03 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:48 pm
...
Looks like he wanted 1% AUM to "help" people, which would not include the kickbacks he would get from referring clients to financial advisors, estate lawyers, insurance/annuity salespersons, etc. ...
Lawyers aren't allowed to share fees with nonlawyers.

If you go to the free dinner seminar and you're the one who buys the annuity, the living trust, the timeshare, or the bridge, you paid for the free dinners for everyone else in the room. Perhaps the same applies if you give them enough assets to invest for 1% a year.

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:16 pm

bsteiner wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:03 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:48 pm
...
Looks like he wanted 1% AUM to "help" people, which would not include the kickbacks he would get from referring clients to financial advisors, estate lawyers, insurance/annuity salespersons, etc. ...
Lawyers aren't allowed to share fees with nonlawyers.

If you go to the free dinner seminar and you're the one who buys the annuity, the living trust, the timeshare, or the bridge, you paid for the free dinners for everyone else in the room. Perhaps the same applies if you give them enough assets to invest for 1% a year.
Good clarification Bruce. When I used the word "kickbacks," my intended meaning wasn't strictly financial. I believe (based upon personal experience and the experiences of others) that a lot of these "partnerships" (that was the word the presenter used), take the forms of two way referrals and other such practices that are beneficial for the businesses. It seems to be common practice in my area.

To your second point, I would certainly thank the ones in the room who will (eventually) wind up paying for my outstanding meal if I knew which ones they were. The nice couple we chatted with during the session may be among them, but I just really didn't know what they were planning. For DW and I, it was more than just an outstanding free high end meal. We also had 55 minutes of entertainment (with maybe a little education for DW) and an opportunity to meet a nice couple who had recently moved into our area from back East.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

Scrapr
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Scrapr » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:05 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:48 pm

At the end when he was issuing his altar call free consultation invite, he actually suggested that there are three types of people who should probably not schedule a meeting. I can't remember the third, but I was two of them. "If you just looked at the invite and thought you would like to get a free dinner at this fine restaurant, and think I'm a nice guy but nothing else," and "if you are a do it yourselfer who doesn't want 'help" with these things." Kind of refreshing. He didn't use the actual word "plate licker," but obviously knew we were out there.
I salute you fellow plate licker!

Mrs Scrapr showed me another invite a month ago. But it was to the same venue we were at earlier this year. I passed it up. I'm getting soft

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:34 pm

Scrapr wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:05 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:48 pm

At the end when he was issuing his altar call free consultation invite, he actually suggested that there are three types of people who should probably not schedule a meeting. I can't remember the third, but I was two of them. "If you just looked at the invite and thought you would like to get a free dinner at this fine restaurant, and think I'm a nice guy but nothing else," and "if you are a do it yourselfer who doesn't want 'help" with these things." Kind of refreshing. He didn't use the actual word "plate licker," but obviously knew we were out there.
I salute you fellow plate licker!

Mrs Scrapr showed me another invite a month ago. But it was to the same venue we were at earlier this year. I passed it up. I'm getting soft
Yeah, I just had that happen too. We received yet another invite to a seminar we had previously attended that had the most memorable filet mignon yet. IIRC, that guy even suggested that if we weren't ready then, and received a future invite, he would welcome us back. It was tough, but I told DW to pitch it and we would likely go again in the future. They just seem to be cascading in. I have one on my desk for another great steak house next week, but haven't made the call yet. Maybe I need to get my behind in gear! 8-)
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

ralph124cf
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by ralph124cf » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:22 am

midareff wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:23 am
I've been 2 2 of them. They pitch the full spectrum of investment and tax managed investing to estate planning with everything available including wills and trusts. The follow-up is higher pressure and of course, they are closing, or trying to, from the opening. You can expect a follow-up call a day or two after the presentation to "schedule your appointment". A second follow-up a few days later with a stronger drive to which I replied I could not see them generating enough alpha to cover their fund fees and management charges, to which the caller replied, "then why did you come to the presentation?"
To see what you had to put on the table I replied.

Some folks dived right in scheduling their meeting at the dinner. Some folks probably need an advisor, Bogleheads don't.
I'm not as nice as you are. I always schedule an appointment, I just never show up for it.

Ralph

HIinvestor
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by HIinvestor » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:47 am

We went to one of these at a very nice hotel in town several years ago (because we like the food at that hotel and don’t dine there often), and brought our skeptical neighbors from across the street. It was a pleasant slideshow and a nice buffet dinner. They even had a lucky number drawing and our neighbors won the big prize, a $50 American Express gift card, to be used like any pre-loaded debit card.

We must have not been paying enough attention. We never could figure out what was being sold, other than follow up appointments which we and neighbors declined. I guess at the follow up appointments they’d tell us we needed them to manage our assets or buy their annuities.

Anyway, for some reason we are rarely invited to any of these financial dinners. After that one, H and I decided we prefer not to dine where we will be asked to make an appointment. We rather pay for a meal and not have anyone try to pitch anything to us—our curiosity was satisfied.

FBN2014
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FBN2014 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:15 am

FIREchief wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:34 pm
Scrapr wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:05 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:48 pm

At the end when he was issuing his altar call free consultation invite, he actually suggested that there are three types of people who should probably not schedule a meeting. I can't remember the third, but I was two of them. "If you just looked at the invite and thought you would like to get a free dinner at this fine restaurant, and think I'm a nice guy but nothing else," and "if you are a do it yourselfer who doesn't want 'help" with these things." Kind of refreshing. He didn't use the actual word "plate licker," but obviously knew we were out there.
I salute you fellow plate licker!

Mrs Scrapr showed me another invite a month ago. But it was to the same venue we were at earlier this year. I passed it up. I'm getting soft
Yeah, I just had that happen too. We received yet another invite to a seminar we had previously attended that had the most memorable filet mignon yet. IIRC, that guy even suggested that if we weren't ready then, and received a future invite, he would welcome us back. It was tough, but I told DW to pitch it and we would likely go again in the future. They just seem to be cascading in. I have one on my desk for another great steak house next week, but haven't made the call yet. Maybe I need to get my behind in gear! 8-)
I too also have received repeat invitations from the same advisors. If they keep sending them to me then I'll keep going. We've been to Ruth's Chris, Fleming's, McCormick and Schmick, Maggione's, Carrabba's. I have gone on some of the follow up appointments. The pitch is always for annuities. One advisor asked me to leave when I told him that I subscribe to the Bogle investing philosophy.
"October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May March, June, December, August and February." - M. Twain

Gus
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Gus » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:45 am

Any tips on how to get invited to these seminars? I just turned 50 this year. Is it just a matter of time now?

Mitchell777
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Mitchell777 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:20 am

FBN2014 wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:15 am
FIREchief wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:34 pm
Scrapr wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:05 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:48 pm

The pitch is always for annuities. One advisor asked me to leave when I told him that I subscribe to the Bogle investing philosophy.
Hopefully this was after you ate. :D

NotWhoYouThink
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:24 am

Gus wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:45 am
Any tips on how to get invited to these seminars? I just turned 50 this year. Is it just a matter of time now?
Living in the right zip code probably helps.

FBN2014
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FBN2014 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:35 am

Gus wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:45 am
Any tips on how to get invited to these seminars? I just turned 50 this year. Is it just a matter of time now?
Your just a pup! 😁 When you get closer to 59 1/2 then you'll get the invites. That's when they want you to rollover your 401K and IRAs into an annuity.
"October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May March, June, December, August and February." - M. Twain

annielouise
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by annielouise » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:06 pm

Gus wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:45 am
Any tips on how to get invited to these seminars? I just turned 50 this year. Is it just a matter of time now?
We have been getting these from about age 50.5. Zip code probably is a factor because that is when we moved into a higher priced neighborhood. We also were already AARP members. And our trust owns the new house, which I could believe triggers interest.

We have never gone because we don't eat the types of foods offered (usually steak). Maybe someday these financial folks will figure out that healthier* eaters also have money.

* Not intended to trigger a discussion on what constitutes healthy eating! Peace, friends.

zbxb006
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by zbxb006 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:30 pm

Back when I was still working, and living in a big-city target zip code, I used to receive several invites a week, mostly to mid-to-higher level restaurants. As I was looking for guidance on possible early retirement I even went to followup meetings with four different firms. The pitch from each was some combo of annuities and their investment services. Two even went so far as to have 'their' own mutual funds, run by a corporate trust operation that I was actually familiar with due to my occupation. Bad, bad, mutual funds.

This was before I discovered this forum. The whole experience though was worth it just to get the confirmation that I really could retire early comfortably - of course only if I signed all my funds over to them to manage. Well, they were right about retiring, anyway, and it's been 4 years now with my assets sitting in index funds.

At the time I had several staff around retirement age that were in the same situation, and I tried to relate my findings to them as they were going to the same type dinners in their cities. Unfortunately they didn't want to listen or do the research themselves, and took the bait. They are all still working away.

Now that I live in the boondocks where the fanciest restuarant's big attraction is chicken fried steak with mashed potatoes, the only invite I have gotten is for one lunch buffet.

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:42 pm

FBN2014 wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:15 am
appointments. The pitch is always for annuities. One advisor asked me to leave when I told him that I subscribe to the Bogle investing philosophy.
Was this at the dinner or a follow up appointment?
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:46 pm

FBN2014 wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:15 am
We've been to Ruth's Chris, Fleming's, McCormick and Schmick, Maggione's, Carrabba's.
That's a great compilation. :thumbsup
The pitch is always for annuities.
I've gotten the annuity pitch, but most of ours have been overall financial planning with referrals to financial advisors, estate attorneys and insurance/annuity salespeople.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:50 pm

Gus wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:45 am
Any tips on how to get invited to these seminars? I just turned 50 this year. Is it just a matter of time now?
It's hard to say. Age is certainly a factor. Credit score might be as well. I get most of ours, but DW also gets them from time to time. There also may be some word of mouth where your neighbor or work colleague signs up for their services and is offered a kickback for names of others if they sign up. Credit card companies may also sell your info, since most of those have some idea of annual income and credit scores.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

furikake
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by furikake » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:51 pm

My dog who died a few years ago received an invitation. I went as my dog with a friend of mine. :P We have quite a few retirees in our neighborhood. I never received one myself. My dog also received Medicare stuff. I'm in my 40's, no one sends me any invites. My dog was 98 (14 dog years) before he passed, they probably thought he was a 98-year old human.

FBN2014
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FBN2014 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:24 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:42 pm
FBN2014 wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:15 am
appointments. The pitch is always for annuities. One advisor asked me to leave when I told him that I subscribe to the Bogle investing philosophy.
Was this at the dinner or a follow up appointment?
It varies. The ones that tell you upfront at the dinner aren't trying to hide anything. The others always act like they have the secret to a successful retirement and you must meet them to learn the secrets. :moneybag
"October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May March, June, December, August and February." - M. Twain

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:34 pm

FBN2014 wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:24 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:42 pm
FBN2014 wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:15 am
appointments. The pitch is always for annuities. One advisor asked me to leave when I told him that I subscribe to the Bogle investing philosophy.
Was this at the dinner or a follow up appointment?
It varies. The ones that tell you upfront at the dinner aren't trying to hide anything. The others always act like they have the secret to a successful retirement and you must meet them to learn the secrets. :moneybag
Sorry, I was asking about when you were asked to leave. Was that during the actual dinner?
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

FBN2014
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FBN2014 » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:57 am

FIREchief wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:34 pm
FBN2014 wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:24 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:42 pm
FBN2014 wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:15 am
appointments. The pitch is always for annuities. One advisor asked me to leave when I told him that I subscribe to the Bogle investing philosophy.
Was this at the dinner or a follow up appointment?
It varies. The ones that tell you upfront at the dinner aren't trying to hide anything. The others always act like they have the secret to a successful retirement and you must meet them to learn the secrets. :moneybag
Sorry, I was asking about when you were asked to leave. Was that during the actual dinner?
No, no that was at the complimentary one on one meeting later. He asked me how I make investment decisions and I made a comment along the lines that research shows that 80-90% of active managers don't beat their indexed benchmarks and with odds like that why would anyone opt for active management funds. That's when I was shown the door. How rude!
"October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May March, June, December, August and February." - M. Twain

Teague
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Teague » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:06 am

furikake wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:51 pm
My dog who died a few years ago received an invitation. I went as my dog with a friend of mine. :P
I hope they covered "tail risk."
Semper Augustus

RickBoglehead
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by RickBoglehead » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:38 am

I'm always perplexed at the effort that some people put into getting free things, or very discounted things, that show little valuation for their time or personal information.

When a business invites people to a seminar, as others have stated they spend money that the people that do business with them are going to pay for with higher fees. A true Boglehead wouldn't want to impact their fellow human beings by raising their cost of doing business, even if they're not smart enough to avoid investing in a manner such as this.

When it comes to taking a one-on-one meeting, that person spends time getting ready for the meeting, then time at the meeting, trying to improve his/her lot in life by earning more money. Again, I may not agree with the way that this individual earns a living (selling investments I may think are "bad"), but I'm not going to negatively impact his/her earnings by wasting their time.

Most of the time when I receive a mailer I contact the firm and a) ask to be removed from their list and b) ask where how they obtained my name. Frequently, they have no clue (obviously someone does, but I may not find the person). If I do find the source of my name, I contact that firm and ask them to stop renting it. If I contact a firm and they continue to mail, well, then they are poor business people simply wasting their money, and they deserve the results.

Howard Donnelly
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Howard Donnelly » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:45 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:38 am
I'm always perplexed at the effort that some people put into getting free things, or very discounted things, that show little valuation for their time or personal information.

When a business invites people to a seminar, as others have stated they spend money that the people that do business with them are going to pay for with higher fees. A true Boglehead wouldn't want to impact their fellow human beings by raising their cost of doing business, even if they're not smart enough to avoid investing in a manner such as this.

When it comes to taking a one-on-one meeting, that person spends time getting ready for the meeting, then time at the meeting, trying to improve his/her lot in life by earning more money. Again, I may not agree with the way that this individual earns a living (selling investments I may think are "bad"), but I'm not going to negatively impact his/her earnings by wasting their time.

Most of the time when I receive a mailer I contact the firm and a) ask to be removed from their list and b) ask where how they obtained my name. Frequently, they have no clue (obviously someone does, but I may not find the person). If I do find the source of my name, I contact that firm and ask them to stop renting it. If I contact a firm and they continue to mail, well, then they are poor business people simply wasting their money, and they deserve the results.
+1

WildBill
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by WildBill » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:07 am

Howdy

Three hours out of my life listening to nonsense from people I do no respect while eating food that is not good for me?

Better things to do with my time.

Happy high cholesterol

W B
"Through chances various, through all vicissitudes, we make our way." Virgil, The Aeneid

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mickeyd
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by mickeyd » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:27 pm

I've attended dozens of these shows during that last 10 years (for entertainment purposes only) but none laity, though I still receive the occasional invite in the mail.

Enjoy the meal, but don't drink the Kool-Aid.
Part-Owner of Texas | | “The CMH-the Cost Matters Hypothesis -is all that is needed to explain why indexing must and will work… Yes, it is that simple.” John C. Bogle

FBN2014
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FBN2014 » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:50 pm

mickeyd wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:27 pm
I've attended dozens of these shows during that last 10 years (for entertainment purposes only) but none laity, though I still receive the occasional invite in the mail.

Enjoy the meal, but don't drink the Kool-Aid.
mickeyd, did you ever go to one at McDonald's? :D
"October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May March, June, December, August and February." - M. Twain

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:28 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:48 pm
He promised to keep it to an hour and actually wrapped it up in about 55 minutes.
WildBill wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:07 am
Three hours out of my life listening to nonsense from people I do no respect while eating food that is not good for me?
One of these things is not like the other..... :P
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:29 pm

mickeyd wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:27 pm
Enjoy the meal, but don't drink the Kool-Aid.
Bravo!! This quote should become the thread title! :sharebeer
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

Scrapr
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Scrapr » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:55 pm

I've got a new gig. Focus Groups! Went to one this morning. Walked out with $150 cashola in my pocket.

I've been on several lists but have not been selected or been otherwise engaged for a year or so. This was an hour and a half with snacks provided. This was questions about our city & growth issues. About 20 folks in this group. Most of the previous ones are smaller.

Typically if selected the marketing companies give you several times for groups. I'm on the mail list so get regular requests.

I am not declaring this on my 1040 :moneybag :sharebeer

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:51 am

FBN2014 wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:57 am
FIREchief wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:34 pm
FBN2014 wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:24 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:42 pm
FBN2014 wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:15 am
appointments. The pitch is always for annuities. One advisor asked me to leave when I told him that I subscribe to the Bogle investing philosophy.
Was this at the dinner or a follow up appointment?
It varies. The ones that tell you upfront at the dinner aren't trying to hide anything. The others always act like they have the secret to a successful retirement and you must meet them to learn the secrets. :moneybag
Sorry, I was asking about when you were asked to leave. Was that during the actual dinner?
No, no that was at the complimentary one on one meeting later. He asked me how I make investment decisions and I made a comment along the lines that research shows that 80-90% of active managers don't beat their indexed benchmarks and with odds like that why would anyone opt for active management funds. That's when I was shown the door. How rude!
Lesson learned: enjoy the meal, don't waste time on a follow-up meeting?
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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