free dinner investing seminar

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VictoriaF
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by VictoriaF » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:20 pm

pkcrafter wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:52 pm
Ah, Victoria, your dinner description sounds far worse that the pitch one has to endure. Maybe they should say, "Stay and listen and sign up for the old equity indexed annuity and we won't make you eat the dinner!"

Paul
Ah, Paul, but not having to eat their dinner is too enticing and could get me in trouble.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:56 pm

BlackStrat wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:50 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:11 pm
Equity indexed, to be precise. You know the kind...where you get "the stock market return with none of the risk". Don't get too excited when they show you the chart comparing their equity indexed annuity's performance with the S&P500...spoiler alert: the chart they show you of the S&P500 index fund's return doesn't include dividends.
ignorant question - what happens to the 'unused' balance of an annuity when you pass? Is there anything left for your heirs?
Very good question. It depends on the annuity. Some can have beneficiary or survivor benefits and others do not. Understand however that life is full of tradeoffs. Do you think you'd pay more or less for annuity that has a beneficiary/survivor benefit?

That's right. You'd pay more because it's an additional benefit. A rider, if you will.

Want an inflation adjustment (another rider)? Think that's free? Guess again. It will cost you something extra.

Now here's the thing. When I say it "costs" you something, that doesn't have to mean as in an "upfront cost", it can be an ongoing cost. In other words, it isn't necessarily that an annuity that costs you $100,000 without a death benefit would cost you $125,000 with a death benefit. It could just as easily be that one $100,000 annuity without a death benefit provides $1000 a month in income for life, while a $100,00 annuity with a death benefit might only provide $900 a month for life.*

*these examples are just illustrations and in no way are to provide an accurate difference between annuities with and without riders. Please consult your friendly insurance salesman for all illustrations. Prepare yourself to read a very lengthy contract, if an indexed annuity, possibly on the order of several hundred pages. Don't sign on the dotted line unless you understand 100% what you're buying. I can't tell you the number of people I've heard call into financial talkshows and post on bogleheads that they bought (as in past tense) and annuity and are wondering if it was a mistake. The time to realize that is before, not after you purchase an annuity.

But do you see how the rider costs you something? Not necessarily more upfront, but rather less ongoing.

This doesn't mean additional riders aren't worth it, or aren't a good deal. It's just a tradeoff. The question is "What is important to you?" Whatever it is, you should expect it to cost you something.

If you're unclear about what type of annuity you're being sold (most are sold, not bought with the exception of the SPIA or single premium immediate annuity which has a tiny commission, unlike the indexed annuity variety) consult stan the annuity man at http://www.stantheannuityman.com/

Hope that helps.
"Invest we must." -- Jack Bogle | “The purpose of investing is not to simply optimise returns and make yourself rich. The purpose is not to die poor.” -- William Bernstein

blmarsha123
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by blmarsha123 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:27 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:06 pm
blmarsha123 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:55 pm
Mulling over another plate licking opportunity. (I mean, Exclusive Dinner Event to learn How to Reduce Your Taxes and Properly Use Your Assets in Retirement). Later this month at one of the local legend steak houses. (The coach maybe still trying to win without the QB?) Main entree choices are 8 oz filet, 12 oz NY strip, roasted chicken and salmon. Also included, house or Caesar, sides and dessert with coffee service.
Apart from the psychological stress of dealing with hard sales, this dinner is unappetizing. The beef and chicken are probably OK. The salmon is likely farmed and loaded with drugs. The Caesar salad has this horrible crunchy stuff and lettuce that went all white. The desert is the type of food that all diets agree is harmful for your health. And coffee at dinner will disturb your night sleep.

The worst: the seminar organizers can make a video of you licking a plate and then blackmail you into buying their products.

Victoria
Which one turned you off so -- Elway's or Shanahan's?

And I've never been to a hard sell. Just a night out, free dinner, and interesting conversation with people I'll likely never see again. But I guess too much for some people. Different strokes and all.

averagedude
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by averagedude » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:40 pm

Ive always heard these dinners are at decent restraunts, but they always serve rubber chickens. The food is about as bad as the products they are selling.

neilpilot
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Location: Memphis area

Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by neilpilot » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:58 pm

averagedude wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:40 pm
Ive always heard these dinners are at decent restraunts, but they always serve rubber chickens. The food is about as bad as the products they are selling.
Not my experience

averagedude
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by averagedude » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:08 pm

neilpilot wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:58 pm
averagedude wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:40 pm
Ive always heard these dinners are at decent restraunts, but they always serve rubber chickens. The food is about as bad as the products they are selling.
Not my experience
Please tell me. What was better. The food or the products they were selling.

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:29 pm

averagedude wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:40 pm
Ive always heard these dinners are at decent restraunts, but they always serve rubber chickens. The food is about as bad as the products they are selling.
Then you haven't even bothered to read this thread before making such a comment. "You've always heard?" That's a great way to preface your statement....
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:31 pm

averagedude wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:08 pm
neilpilot wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:58 pm
averagedude wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:40 pm
Ive always heard these dinners are at decent restraunts, but they always serve rubber chickens. The food is about as bad as the products they are selling.
Not my experience
Please tell me. What was better. The food or the products they were selling.
I can't speak for neilpilot, but the food has been fantastic and the sales pitches entertaining. Dinner and a show!! :sharebeer

Why on earth would I care about what they were selling?? That had nothing to do with my motivation for attending.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

Housedoc
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Housedoc » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:22 am

Buddy I work out with and his wife join us for free dinner at some of the finest places in town. We love asking those expense vs return questions. Annuity dinners the best to analyze. We all can say no. Been to a few multiple times. If they mail them we will come....HA

nova1968
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by nova1968 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:25 am

delete
Last edited by nova1968 on Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

BlackStrat
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by BlackStrat » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:26 am

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:56 pm
BlackStrat wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:50 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:11 pm
Equity indexed, to be precise. You know the kind...where you get "the stock market return with none of the risk". Don't get too excited when they show you the chart comparing their equity indexed annuity's performance with the S&P500...spoiler alert: the chart they show you of the S&P500 index fund's return doesn't include dividends.
ignorant question - what happens to the 'unused' balance of an annuity when you pass? Is there anything left for your heirs?
Very good question.
.......
.......
Hope that helps.
That does help. I was at one of these dinners and saw a similar chart comparing S&P with the presenter's 'solution' (an annuity of some unspecified sort) and immediately thought that he was comparing apples with oranges (and that was without your point to the S&P returns excluding dividends).

Anyway, I told my wife 'never argue with a man who is about to buy you a steak'!

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:20 pm

BlackStrat wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:26 am
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:56 pm
BlackStrat wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:50 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:11 pm
Equity indexed, to be precise. You know the kind...where you get "the stock market return with none of the risk". Don't get too excited when they show you the chart comparing their equity indexed annuity's performance with the S&P500...spoiler alert: the chart they show you of the S&P500 index fund's return doesn't include dividends.
ignorant question - what happens to the 'unused' balance of an annuity when you pass? Is there anything left for your heirs?
Very good question.
.......
.......
Hope that helps.
That does help. I was at one of these dinners and saw a similar chart comparing S&P with the presenter's 'solution' (an annuity of some unspecified sort) and immediately thought that he was comparing apples with oranges (and that was without your point to the S&P returns excluding dividends).

Anyway, I told my wife 'never argue with a man who is about to buy you a steak'!
that's very funny. But remember, it's not really the salesperson buying you the steak. It's the other people around you listening to the presentation who sign up for the salesperson's annuity. They're the ones who bought your dinner.
"Invest we must." -- Jack Bogle | “The purpose of investing is not to simply optimise returns and make yourself rich. The purpose is not to die poor.” -- William Bernstein

Fallible
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by Fallible » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:21 pm

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:20 pm
BlackStrat wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:26 am
...
Anyway, I told my wife 'never argue with a man who is about to buy you a steak'!
that's very funny. But remember, it's not really the salesperson buying you the steak. It's the other people around you listening to the presentation who sign up for the salesperson's annuity. They're the ones who bought your dinner.
I think this is an important point to be made. Suddenly, the steaks don't taste quite the same...tainted maybe?
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FIREchief
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by FIREchief » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:11 pm

Fallible wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:21 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:20 pm
BlackStrat wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:26 am
...
Anyway, I told my wife 'never argue with a man who is about to buy you a steak'!
that's very funny. But remember, it's not really the salesperson buying you the steak. It's the other people around you listening to the presentation who sign up for the salesperson's annuity. They're the ones who bought your dinner.
I think this is an important point to be made. Suddenly, the steaks don't taste quite the same...tainted maybe?
Oh c'mon. The steaks still taste fantastic! Why is it that so many people can't just enjoy a free, delicious filet' mignon without trying to find some reason to not be happy? :confused
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:15 pm

Housedoc wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:22 am
Buddy I work out with and his wife join us for free dinner at some of the finest places in town. We love asking those expense vs return questions. Annuity dinners the best to analyze. We all can say no. Been to a few multiple times. If they mail them we will come....HA
Now I feel a new sense of inspiration. There is one particular fixed index annuity place that I attended that still sends me invitations. They served up the biggest, best bacon wrapped Filet Mignon at a high end steak house near my house. Cocktails were free as well. I have ignored the repeat invites, perhaps until just now! :sharebeer
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

RickBoglehead
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by RickBoglehead » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:49 am

Just like free vacations with a condo pitch, I avoid these like the plague, even getting removed from future mailings and asking the source from where they got my name.

AARP, which we do not belong to, will rent your name to anyone. If you belong, ask to be marked Do Not Rent.

Reputable mailers use the DMA's Mail Preference Service. You can also be put on their Deceased, Do Not Contact list.

Disreputable mailers don't care.

I would be very concerned if an elderly parent was going to these.

neilpilot
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Location: Memphis area

Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by neilpilot » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:08 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:49 am
Just like free vacations with a condo pitch, I avoid these like the plague, even getting removed from future mailings and asking the source from where they got my name.

AARP, which we do not belong to, will rent your name to anyone. If you belong, ask to be marked Do Not Rent.

Reputable mailers use the DMA's Mail Preference Service. You can also be put on their Deceased, Do Not Contact list.

Disreputable mailers don't care.

I would be very concerned if an elderly parent was going to these.
Well I'm an elderly parent and sometimes go for a nice steak dinner. No need to be concerned.

RickBoglehead
Posts: 319
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by RickBoglehead » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:30 am

neilpilot wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:08 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:49 am
Just like free vacations with a condo pitch, I avoid these like the plague, even getting removed from future mailings and asking the source from where they got my name.

AARP, which we do not belong to, will rent your name to anyone. If you belong, ask to be marked Do Not Rent.

Reputable mailers use the DMA's Mail Preference Service. You can also be put on their Deceased, Do Not Contact list.

Disreputable mailers don't care.

I would be very concerned if an elderly parent was going to these.
Well I'm an elderly parent and sometimes go for a nice steak dinner. No need to be concerned.
You're not my parent. I can tell you that if I heard my mother was considering going to one of these, I'd be all over it. She has bought the $1,500 vacuum, the knives sold by "poor college kids", not negotiated on a new car purchase (because you can't), ... Gullible is her middle name.

My in-laws didn't know a mutual fund from a green bean.

pkcrafter
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by pkcrafter » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:36 am

For you free dinner pros who enjoy the dinners and never sign up, if you keep that up the sales people may see that new sign-ups aren't covering the cost of dinner and they will have to offer something more tempting. Keep up the good work. :happy

Paul
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.

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