free dinner investing seminar

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:16 pm

blmarsha123 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:55 pm
Mulling over another plate licking opportunity. (I mean, Exclusive Dinner Event to learn How to Reduce Your Taxes and Properly Use Your Assets in Retirement). Later this month at one of the local legend steak houses. (The coach maybe still trying to win without the QB?) Main entree choices are 8 oz filet, 12 oz NY strip, roasted chicken and salmon. Also included, house or Caesar, sides and dessert with coffee service. Gosh, no wine?
Has anyone received free alcohol at an event? I sort of think they might not want to provide that, as that might be the basis for a later complaint, "they got Grandpa drunk and took advantage!"
This week's fortune cookie: "Your financial life will be secure and beneficial." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

blmarsha123
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by blmarsha123 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:22 pm

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:16 pm
blmarsha123 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:55 pm
Mulling over another plate licking opportunity. (I mean, Exclusive Dinner Event to learn How to Reduce Your Taxes and Properly Use Your Assets in Retirement). Later this month at one of the local legend steak houses. (The coach maybe still trying to win without the QB?) Main entree choices are 8 oz filet, 12 oz NY strip, roasted chicken and salmon. Also included, house or Caesar, sides and dessert with coffee service. Gosh, no wine?
Has anyone received free alcohol at an event? I sort of think they might not want to provide that, as that might be the basis for a later complaint, "they got Grandpa drunk and took advantage!"
Yes, at least once, a complementary glass of wine. And if I remember correctly, a cash bar one other time.

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munemaker
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by munemaker » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:28 pm

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:16 pm

Has anyone received free alcohol at an event? I sort of think they might not want to provide that, as that might be the basis for a later complaint, "they got Grandpa drunk and took advantage!"
My experience is they do not actually try to sell you anything at these events. They are trying to suck you in to a follow up meeting where the selling occurs. So getting grandpa drunk would only lead to signing up for a meeting, which could be cancelled after the old guy sobers up.

fleetwdl
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by fleetwdl » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:58 pm

I attended one of these in 2012. The pitch was for giving you an analysis of your social security. There was a software package that would run numbers and tell when you would "break even" dependent upon when you would began drawing. The meal and the analysis was free. The real product for sale was indexed annuities which were "safe", had a guaranteed minimum growth rate, and of course a "bonus" growth rate for the first year or two. Was also advertised as "fee free", which was sort of true. On the heels of the market 'downer' of 2008+, he constantly reminded us that this was "safe". My wife loved this guy and his delivery, and she was ready to give him $700,000 that we had accumulated in 403b and 457's under my personal guidance (we lost 25% in the crash, but never blinked). I figure he would have earned $42-49k had he landed our account, which explains why he was willing to front a $20 dinner. I was able to drag DW away and in the end we stayed with our allocation and diversity and it has paid off handsomely.

I don't resent what these guys do with their dinner pitches. They are trolling for clients as do other businesses. The products they pitch seem very expensive and unnecessary to the average boglehead, but not to everybody. Those who are not confident with investing should pay for investing advice. I only get upset when the pros purposely hide the real costs and the lost opportunity costs from people without the sophistication to find out for themselves.

dbr
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by dbr » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:18 pm

fleetwdl wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:58 pm
I attended one of these in 2012. The pitch was for giving you an analysis of your social security. There was a software package that would run numbers and tell when you would "break even" dependent upon when you would began drawing. The meal and the analysis was free. The real product for sale was indexed annuities which were "safe", had a guaranteed minimum growth rate, and of course a "bonus" growth rate for the first year or two. Was also advertised as "fee free", which was sort of true. On the heels of the market 'downer' of 2008+, he constantly reminded us that this was "safe". My wife loved this guy and his delivery, and she was ready to give him $700,000 that we had accumulated in 403b and 457's under my personal guidance (we lost 25% in the crash, but never blinked). I figure he would have earned $42-49k had he landed our account, which explains why he was willing to front a $20 dinner. I was able to drag DW away and in the end we stayed with our allocation and diversity and it has paid off handsomely.

I don't resent what these guys do with their dinner pitches. They are trolling for clients as do other businesses. The products they pitch seem very expensive and unnecessary to the average boglehead, but not to everybody. Those who are not confident with investing should pay for investing advice. I only get upset when the pros purposely hide the real costs and the lost opportunity costs from people without the sophistication to find out for themselves.
And yet your naive and uninformed wife was only saved from doing something really stupid by being married to you. That seems like an awfully close call to me.

stinkycat
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by stinkycat » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:46 pm

Iliketoridemybike wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:23 pm
There’s no free dinner.
I received one free dinner in my life. We were just married and my step-mother in law signs us up for a dinner that she was supposed to go to as well. She ends up skipping the dinner and my wife and I end up at this dinner where we were 20 years younger than everyone else. A few years before I had become a boglehead (without knowing it) and I remember thinking we should have invited the couple across from out to our house for dinner because they were really clueless. Fortunately they never called us, probably because they thought we didn't have any money.

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:53 pm

spectec wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:45 am
FIREchief wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:17 am
Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:59 pm
No.

If necessary followed up with the true statement:

I used to teach objection handling.

By agreeing to a transaction in that context we both know one of us is going to cheat the other. If my conscience didn't nip at my heels I would cheat them. Unfortunately for my diet of free rubber chicken and peas it does, so I don't go.

PJW
Why would it ever be necessary to follow up a "NO?" If that really happened I would think a H$LL NO would be the right response. Some of you just don't understand how to enjoy a free steak.
I think you can be led to say "YES".
The question would be :"Given all this solid information I've presented, can you honestly think of any rational reason not to buy my (annuity, time share, investment plan, etc) ?"

Personally, I'd rather buy my own dinner and enjoy meaningful conversation with my family rather than stroke my ego.
I think you can be led to say "YES".
Never happen. I don't care what questions they ask. If they push, I push back harder. It's just my personality, and I've set a fine example for my family on how not to fall prey to hucksters. That's a side benefit from taking a spouse or adult child to one of these. (note to bogleheads: warn your adult children about timeshares, perhaps the most unforgiving of schemes out there)
The question would be :"Given all this solid information I've presented, can you honestly think of any rational reason not to buy my (annuity, time share, investment plan, etc) ?"
And the answer would range from "I said NO," to perhaps a more kind "I'll think about it" (which I won't). Maybe somebody can try a "I'll post my experience on bogleheads.org and see what the experts have to say." That would be fun to hear what the salesman responds with. Any takers?

PJW: you sound like a very polite, kind individual. :sharebeer (that may disqualify you from joining the plate lickers)
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:58 pm

dbr wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:18 pm
fleetwdl wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:58 pm
I attended one of these in 2012. The pitch was for giving you an analysis of your social security. There was a software package that would run numbers and tell when you would "break even" dependent upon when you would began drawing. The meal and the analysis was free. The real product for sale was indexed annuities which were "safe", had a guaranteed minimum growth rate, and of course a "bonus" growth rate for the first year or two. Was also advertised as "fee free", which was sort of true. On the heels of the market 'downer' of 2008+, he constantly reminded us that this was "safe". My wife loved this guy and his delivery, and she was ready to give him $700,000 that we had accumulated in 403b and 457's under my personal guidance (we lost 25% in the crash, but never blinked). I figure he would have earned $42-49k had he landed our account, which explains why he was willing to front a $20 dinner. I was able to drag DW away and in the end we stayed with our allocation and diversity and it has paid off handsomely.

I don't resent what these guys do with their dinner pitches. They are trolling for clients as do other businesses. The products they pitch seem very expensive and unnecessary to the average boglehead, but not to everybody. Those who are not confident with investing should pay for investing advice. I only get upset when the pros purposely hide the real costs and the lost opportunity costs from people without the sophistication to find out for themselves.
And yet your naive and uninformed wife was only saved from doing something really stupid by being married to you. That seems like an awfully close call to me.
On the contrary, it sounds like this provided a very valuable educational experience that will protect Mrs. fleetwdl in the future in the event that fleetwdl is no longer around. Mrs. FIREchief has been well educated in mainly what to do (with some exposure to what not to do, just waiting for more "good" free dinners). :sharebeer
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:00 pm

KlingKlang wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:08 am
FIREchief wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:45 pm
KlingKlang wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:10 am
FIREchief wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:52 pm
KlingKlang wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:44 pm

Obviously I never have any luck.

I received three more invitations today but they have all been shredded. Any tips on picking a good one?
Sure. It's all about the food. Just pick one that is being held at a really nice restaurant that doesn't require a long drive. It really doesn't matter what they are selling, although a variety of topics might be nice. It is fun to see how well (or not) they are able to pitch their snake oil. You already know that whatever it is, it is a bad deal financially. Approach it like a murder mystery dinner show, where you have to spot the clues to solve the (attempted) crime. 8-)
OK, you talked me into it. I signed up for a March 1 dinner at one of the best steak places in town. The invitation even has a picture of a steak on the front! I'll report in on how it went.
Welcome to the plate-lickers guild! Please remember to report back to this thread on how good the steak was. Also, if you have time, letting us know what they were selling would be interesting as well. Like yourself, I also ignored those for years, but finally one with a fantastic picture of a steak tipped me over. I'm going to another one at the same place this Thursday.
We showed up at the restaurant last night despite the fact that they were predicting 5 to 10 inches of snow. Picked up the information pack (nothing specific, just "you need us to save your retirement" plugs) and went to the table at a cramped room in the back. They had a sheet with the food choices out - Garden Salad OR Chicken Penne Pasta. We walked out, got some carry out at another place, and got home before the snow.
Ouch! Are you sure that wasn't just your appetizer choice? How would the restaurant make any money otherwise??
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

FrankLUSMC
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Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by FrankLUSMC » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:46 pm

[Thread merged into here, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

Reservation made for April 16 at Ruth's Chris.... YUUUMM!

I'm going to highlight the second paragraph and bring with me just in case I get grief.

"No fee, no contracts, no obligation, just a fun time of learning how to combat the erosion of your wealth by fees, taxes, inflation, creditor liability and longevity for a worry free financial life in your retirement years."

Any bets on annuity pitch?

Will follow up after 16th.

bberris
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by bberris » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:50 pm

I predict a steak swimming in butter and higher cholesterol. Skip it and save money on statins.

bogglizer
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by bogglizer » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:52 pm

The only way to survive retirement is to return to work. Any other plan results in certain death.

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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by FrugalInvestor » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:53 pm

bberris wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:50 pm
I predict a steak swimming in butter and higher cholesterol. Skip it and save money on statins.
I'd recommend going just once rather than not going at all. :beer
IGNORE the noise! | Our life is frittered away by detail... simplify, simplify. - Henry David Thoreau

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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by FrugalInvestor » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:53 pm

bogglizer wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:52 pm
The only way to survive retirement is to return to work. Any other plan results in certain death.
Any way you go it's certain death.
IGNORE the noise! | Our life is frittered away by detail... simplify, simplify. - Henry David Thoreau

denovo
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by denovo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:58 pm

FrankLUSMC wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:46 pm
Reservation made for April 16 at Ruth's Chris.... YUUUMM!

I'm going to highlight the second paragraph and bring with me just in case I get grief.

"No fee, no contracts, no obligation, just a fun time of learning how to combat the erosion of your wealth by fees, taxes, inflation, creditor liability and longevity for a worry free financial life in your retirement years."

Any bets on annuity pitch?

Will follow up after 16th.
100 percent its an annuity pitch.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:11 pm

Equity indexed, to be precise. You know the kind...where you get "the stock market return with none of the risk". Don't get too excited when they show you the chart comparing their equity indexed annuity's performance with the S&P500...spoiler alert: the chart they show you of the S&P500 index fund's return doesn't include dividends.
"Invest we must." -- Jack Bogle | “The purpose of investing is not to simply optimise returns and make yourself rich. The purpose is not to die poor.” -- William Bernstein

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David Jay
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by David Jay » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:16 pm

Surviving Retirement

They have products that can DO that???
Last edited by David Jay on Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MP123
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by MP123 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:20 pm

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:11 pm
Equity indexed, to be precise. You know the kind...where you get "the stock market return with none of the risk". Don't get too excited when they show you the chart comparing their equity indexed annuity's performance with the S&P500...spoiler alert: the chart they show you of the S&P500 index fund's return doesn't include dividends.
Just don't mention that until after the dessert and scotch course.

Looking forward to a full report!

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iceport
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by iceport » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:36 pm

At least you'll get a fine meal. Mine wasn't nearly as upscale. But if your experience turns out to be anything like mine was, you'll feel dirty before it's over.

I should have anticipated the dilemma I would be in, but it didn't hit me until I was sitting there with my meal in front of me that I would have a difficult time biting the hand that was feeding me. All I could do was interrupt a few times with some questions I hoped would tip off at least a few of the sitting ducks.

I went online before the dinner and found that the pitch was gonna be for equity indexed annuities, so I printed off a few pages from the wiki. I ended up sitting next to a guy with his wife who worked for the same large employer as me. He will get a decent pension. And yet there they were, buying the pitch for equity indexed annuities hook, line and sinker. He took the wiki pages I offered as I left, and I was glad they were written in fairly neutral language. But I doubt it was enough to save him.

I'll be looking for your report. Bon appetite!
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:11 pm
Equity indexed, to be precise. You know the kind...where you get "the stock market return with none of the risk". Don't get too excited when they show you the chart comparing their equity indexed annuity's performance with the S&P500...spoiler alert: the chart they show you of the S&P500 index fund's return doesn't include dividends.
That's the one! The sales guy gave a pretty quiet answer when I asked about that.
"Discipline matters more than allocation.” ─William Bernstein

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:46 pm

you probably won't get to ask the following questions because they'll tell you to hold all questions until the "one on one" at the end of the presentation:
Questions You Should Ask Your Agent or the Company

What is the guaranteed minimum interest rate?
What charges, if any, are deducted from my premium?
What charges, if any, are deducted from my contract value?
How long is the term?
What is the participation rate?
For how long is the participation rate guaranteed?
Is there a minimum participation rate?
Does my contract have a cap?
Is averaging used? How does it work?
Is interest compounded during a term?
Is there a margin, spread, or administrative fee? Is that in addition to or instead of a participation rate?
Which indexing method is used in my contract?
What are the surrender charges or penalties if I want to end my contract early and take out all of my money?
Can I get a partial withdrawal without paying charges or losing interest? Does my contract have vesting?
Does my annuity waive withdrawal charges if I am confined to a nursing home or diagnosed with a terminal illness?
What annuity income payment options do I have?
What is the death benefit?

-- NAIC Buyer's Guide To Equity-Indexed Annuities

source: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Equity-indexed_annuity
And the best answer they give you to the question, "How much do I wind up paying you for this wonderful investment insurance contract?" is of course:

"Oh you don't pay me. The company does."

Sure. Like they just get the money from "somewhere/someone else"??

And if you're in the industry (like a financial planner)...I believe they're barring those people from the free steak dinners now. They really don't want challenges to their presentation. They only want uninformed sitting ducks who haven't done any due dilligence.

I would never go to one of these. The steak would be too difficult to get down.
"Invest we must." -- Jack Bogle | “The purpose of investing is not to simply optimise returns and make yourself rich. The purpose is not to die poor.” -- William Bernstein

skepticalobserver
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by skepticalobserver » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:51 pm

Go for the Chilled Seafood Tower!

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whodidntante
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by whodidntante » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:20 pm

Steak and snake oil.

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joe8d
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by joe8d » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:42 pm

bogglizer wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:52 pm
The only way to survive retirement is to return to work. Any other plan results in certain death.
:thumbsup
All the Best, | Joe

silvertop
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by silvertop » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:38 am

My wife and I are both retired and she has her IRAs (Traditional, Rollover, and Roth) with Fidelity. Thus we were invited to a Ruth Chris dinner presentation for retirement planning last year. We were totally amazed that there was no pressure, no recommendations, no pitch for any Fidelity product, just basic financial retirement considerations. By the way, the meal was excellent.

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:13 am

silvertop wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:38 am
My wife and I are both retired and she has her IRAs (Traditional, Rollover, and Roth) with Fidelity. Thus we were invited to a Ruth Chris dinner presentation for retirement planning last year. We were totally amazed that there was no pressure, no recommendations, no pitch for any Fidelity product, just basic financial retirement considerations. By the way, the meal was excellent.
Ah, but Fidelity doesn't sell indexed annuities that are so often hawked at these steak dinners.

https://www.fidelity.com/annuities/compare-annuities

So knowing the difference is important and unfortunately many don't.
"Invest we must." -- Jack Bogle | “The purpose of investing is not to simply optimise returns and make yourself rich. The purpose is not to die poor.” -- William Bernstein

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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by nisiprius » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:49 am

Oh, you know about how awful a few of those old "equity indexed annuities" were? My goodness, you are certainly an intelligent, well-informed investor, and I agree completely with you, you do need to be careful. The industry has cleaned up its act, and those old equity indexed annuities are a thing of the past, nothing like the modern fixed index annuities of today. Completely different. But even today, yes, I'll be totally frank with you, there are some bad products out there and some unscrupulous salespeople. That's why it's so very important to consider the financial strength of the company offering the product, and the reputation of the firm representing them. You know our product is good because it's backed by Confidence Certainty Credence Surety, "The Confidence Men." And as for financial strength, well, you know the famous logo, "CCCS Is Mightier than Krakatoa?" CCCS is rated "strong" by S&P--yes, the very same S&P that does the world-famous S&P index. Now, since you are so well-informed, I know what you are going to ask me about. Participation rate, am I right? Well, let me tell you, the participation rate is sky-high, very high. Uh, I'm not sure about the exact percentage number offhand and I wouldn't want to give you bad information, so I'll get back to you with the exact number. We use an adjusted mean-high-water-neap-tide method for calculating gains. I like to think of that as being like Hurricane Maria, the water just keeps rising and rising and rising. I don't normally talk about that because most people don't understand it, but you, I know that you appreciate exactly what that means for you. And taxes! I didn't even tell you about taxes. Let me tell you about taxes. This product will save you money on taxes. With a capital T and that rhymes with D and that stands for Fee! And I like your tie.
Last edited by nisiprius on Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by b.lock » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:57 am

silvertop wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:38 am
My wife and I are both retired and she has her IRAs (Traditional, Rollover, and Roth) with Fidelity. Thus we were invited to a Ruth Chris dinner presentation for retirement planning last year.
Is this a common thing for Fidelity customers? Anyone know what age you have to be and how much money you need to have in your account to get invited? :D

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goingup
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by goingup » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:56 pm

nisiprius wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:49 am
Oh, you know about how awful a few of those old "equity indexed annuities" were? My goodness, you are certainly an intelligent, well-informed investor, and I agree completely with you, you do need to be careful. The industry has cleaned up its act, and those old equity indexed annuities are a thing of the past, nothing like the modern fixed index annuities of today. Completely different. But even today, yes, I'll be totally frank with you, there are some bad products out there and some unscrupulous salespeople. That's why it's so very important to consider the financial strength of the company offering the product, and the reputation of the firm representing them. You know our product is good because it's backed by Confidence Certainty Credence Surety, "The Confidence Men." And as for financial strength, well, you know the famous logo, "CCCS Is Mightier than Krakatoa?" CCCS is rated "strong" by S&P--yes, the very same S&P that does the world-famous S&P index. Now, since you are so well-informed, I know what you are going to ask me about. Participation rate, am I right? Well, let me tell you, the participation rate is sky-high, very high. Uh, I'm not sure about the exact percentage number offhand and I wouldn't want to give you bad information, so I'll get back to you with the exact number. We use an adjusted mean-high-water-neap-tide method for calculating gains. I like to think of that as being like Hurricane Maria, the water just keeps rising and rising and rising. I don't normally talk about that because most people don't understand it, but you, I know that you appreciate exactly what that means for you. And taxes! I didn't even tell you about taxes. Let me tell you about taxes. This product will save you money on taxes. With a capital T and that rhymes with D and that stands for Fee! And I like your tie.
And I can hear the lovely baritone voice of Robert Preston intoning the above ala The Music Man. Thanks for the laugh!

I never accept these invitations because I'm just not certain I couldn't be wooed into an annuity (which has plenty of merits) after a fine steak and a few cocktails. It's not as though these guys are peddling hazardous nuclear waste. An annuity may have a place in our financial future but I don't want to be seduced into one.

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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by jfn111 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:22 pm

b.lock wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:57 am
silvertop wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:38 am
My wife and I are both retired and she has her IRAs (Traditional, Rollover, and Roth) with Fidelity. Thus we were invited to a Ruth Chris dinner presentation for retirement planning last year.
Is this a common thing for Fidelity customers? Anyone know what age you have to be and how much money you need to have in your account to get invited? :D
I was invited to one Fidelity dinner shortly after I retired, at age 55, 6 years ago. Just like the previous poster stated, no pressure to buy anything. I think they were more concerned with me moving my 401K to someone else. They talked about rolling the 401K into a Fidelity IRA. I haven't received anymore invitations but I also don't answer the phone when Fidelity calls. :D

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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by student » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:26 pm

nisiprius wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:49 am
Oh, you know about how awful a few of those old "equity indexed annuities" were? My goodness, you are certainly an intelligent, well-informed investor, and I agree completely with you, you do need to be careful. The industry has cleaned up its act, and those old equity indexed annuities are a thing of the past, nothing like the modern fixed index annuities of today. Completely different. But even today, yes, I'll be totally frank with you, there are some bad products out there and some unscrupulous salespeople. That's why it's so very important to consider the financial strength of the company offering the product, and the reputation of the firm representing them. You know our product is good because it's backed by Confidence Certainty Credence Surety, "The Confidence Men." And as for financial strength, well, you know the famous logo, "CCCS Is Mightier than Krakatoa?" CCCS is rated "strong" by S&P--yes, the very same S&P that does the world-famous S&P index. Now, since you are so well-informed, I know what you are going to ask me about. Participation rate, am I right? Well, let me tell you, the participation rate is sky-high, very high. Uh, I'm not sure about the exact percentage number offhand and I wouldn't want to give you bad information, so I'll get back to you with the exact number. We use an adjusted mean-high-water-neap-tide method for calculating gains. I like to think of that as being like Hurricane Maria, the water just keeps rising and rising and rising. I don't normally talk about that because most people don't understand it, but you, I know that you appreciate exactly what that means for you. And taxes! I didn't even tell you about taxes. Let me tell you about taxes. This product will save you money on taxes. With a capital T and that rhymes with D and that stands for Fee! And I like your tie.
Funny. :D :D :D

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:04 pm

I merged FrankLUSMC's thread into here . The combined thread is in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum.
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Soon2BXProgrammer
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:07 pm

maybe a dumb question.. but how do i get invited to a free steak dinner?

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by hicabob » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:30 pm

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:07 pm
maybe a dumb question.. but how do i get invited to a free steak dinner?
A reasonably fat bank/investment account and being over 55 helps. The free dinner folk buy your info from the financial institution and then attempt to convince you to convert your 401k's/IRA to indexed annuities. Back in the day I used to go to investment luncheons with my cubicle neighbor who loved both free food and investing. Since it was Palo Alto we had some very decent lunches. He used to ask about the menu before we'd go. Oil/gas limited partnerships and storage space builings were a couple common ones.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:47 pm

hicabob wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:30 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:07 pm
maybe a dumb question.. but how do i get invited to a free steak dinner?
A reasonably fat bank/investment account and being over 55 helps. The free dinner folk buy your info from the financial institution and then attempt to convince you to convert your 401k's/IRA to indexed annuities. Back in the day I used to go to investment luncheons with my cubicle neighbor who loved both free food and investing. Since it was Palo Alto we had some very decent lunches. He used to ask about the menu before we'd go. Oil/gas limited partnerships and storage space builings were a couple common ones.
hmm maybe i don't have financial institutions that want to sell my data.... or the age thing could be killing me.

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Rob5TCP
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Rob5TCP » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:44 pm

A view from the other side - someone who runs the seminars
pretty honest

https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/behin ... l-seminar/

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:02 am

Rob5TCP wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:44 pm
A view from the other side - someone who runs the seminars
pretty honest

https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/behin ... l-seminar/
"While you might learn something at these seminars, they aren’t what you think. These are actually carefully crafted marketing machines, designed to teach you much less than you’d expect. They’re carefully planned from who’s targeted during the invitation process, to what happens during the workshop and even the events directly after the evening finishes."

What?! This is EXACTLY what I would (and have) think (thought). No real revelations here. My latest invite is actually a bit too high end for my taste (private club, limited to eight attendees). I'm skipping this one and waiting for another one for a Steak house closer to home.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by AllMostThere » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:10 pm

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:07 pm
maybe a dumb question.. but how do i get invited to a free steak dinner?
My DW gets these every invites every month and a occasional brochure on pre-paid funerals. I don't know how she ended up on these distribution lists, but thinking she may have been placed on a sales list provided by AARP.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by money_bunny » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:48 am

vested1 wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:05 am

I've even paid for a course at our local community college which consisted of several weeks of classes, where the program was supposed to cover SS filing options and investing principles. I researched the presenters before I went. They were both insurance salesmen. One of them was prominent in an organization that claimed the existence of Big Foot (no kidding). They didn't offer dinner, but the free coffee and donuts were delicious. The program, which was not cheap, was riddled with incorrect information on every subject, especially SS. Just like the free dinner scam, these guys were selling annuities and whole life insurance, even though they claimed not to be. Attendees were encouraged to sign up for further "free" discussions after class. It's safe to say that I lost them a few customers. After the classes were over I filed a complaint with the college.
I'd love to teach this. I did a few classes at conventions where the first thing I opened up with is "I am not here to sell you anything, on Monday I go back to seeing 16 patients a day."

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Wed May 09, 2018 11:40 pm

Just had one of the finest Steaks I've ever had at a "retirement planning" seminar tonight. First, the important stuff:

She was an 8 oz filet cooked to a perfect medium. Salad before, dessert afterwards. We took the carrot cake pieces in a doggy bag.

Second, the entertainment:

SS planning, fixed indexed annuity, very vague life insurance products, pooling of funds to participate in hedge funds and finally, oh by the way, you ought to have an estate plan. We can "help" you get help to do all of this!

The "SS strategy" pitch baffled me at first, until I figured out the angle (it became a bit more obvious as the pitch continued). Figuring that many in the audience would be skeptical of financial products, the message was "at least let us meet with you for an hour to help you figure out the confusing SS options." Oh, by the way, we'll need to understand your entire portfolio as an input to determining an appropriate plan for SS. Not really bait and switch, but an excellent ploy to gain trust and cooperation while looking for weaknesses to sell their wares. Fees were in no way addressed, although this looked like the awful arrangement where this guy's firm was "general manager" (likely at some AUM fee), who then farmed out tax work, estate planning, investment management and financial planning at another level of hidden fees. The most ridiculous cherry picked historical performance charts I've seen at one of these. They started in 1999, because allegedly that was the year his example client chose to retire. This client worked in tech and had his 100% stock portfolio mostly in tech stocks. As always, the market plots did not include dividend reinvestment, but his hedge fund line reflected a hedge fund that focused on dividend paying stocks(?!).

He also mentioned Jack Bogle and said that he owned Vanguard. Unlike other such pitches, upon wrapping up and collecting their response forms, the presenters left. They didn't even go from table to table for individual questions. That was just icing on the cake for us, but I'm thinking it is a strategy to get others to set up meetings to ask their questions.

All in all, some fine entertainment and a great steak at one of the finest steak houses in my city. I told my wife I was going to pencil in a response option on the form that said "plate licker" and put a check next to it. 8-)
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by elbryn1000 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:04 am

stumbled by this thread and figured i'd maybe resurrect it a bit, when i got an invite in the mail for my parents. went with mom as the guest just to see what would happen. early sleuthing on the person indicated that this would be a fixed equity annuity.. but hey, free steak at a nice place with mom? not so bad of a deal :) i did have to pretend to be older than 40 though.

it went much as expected, though the sales guy was cordial. we saw the expected sp500 chart, a fixed rate cd line, and a what if there was a product that captured the highs without the lows question? then the explanation of the fix equity annuity with a few options

6-10 surrender period, ability to withdraw up to 10% funding per year, cap rate of 0-12%, expected returns of 3-6% and bonus structure.. that was interesting. if you sign up for the 10 year plan you could get a huge 15-20%+ bonus. no discussion at this point of participation rate, dividend inclusion, exit penalties, etc. only the high level. i remember thinking distinctly, the insurance company is gonna pay this guy some 5-10% commission to sell the product and give a 20% bonus on money in year 1. how much money are they planning on making with our money that they can afford some 20-30% bonuses up front?

we got to eat salads up front and then listen to the 2 hour presentation. took about 3 hours all in, we filled out the form saying no to an appointment and did not tick the boxes indicating we had annuities so we got left alone.

on the other hand, the presenter was cordial and not hard selling anything. he did admit that the product was not for everyone and he was aiming for folks who wanted to protect some of their money and not all of it.

i'd consider going to more but i'm not sure if the 3 hours of time is worth it. there's another offer for dad sitting on my desk that only asks for those with 500k investable assets so thinking about it. it is at a steakhouse i've never been too-- mostly because i'm too cheap to pay that amount of money for a steak. i'd much rather sous vide and sear off myself but it could be interesting. this guy has a financial radio show and while promoting his business quite a bit, also talks about being a fiduciary and has talked about decent financial planning principals.. maybe another update in a few weeks.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by djpeteski » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:22 am

elbryn1000 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:04 am
i'd consider going to more but i'm not sure if the 3 hours of time is worth it. there's another offer for dad sitting on my desk that only asks for those with 500k investable assets so thinking about it. it is at a steakhouse i've never been too-- mostly because i'm too cheap to pay that amount of money for a steak. i'd much rather sous vide and sear off myself but it could be interesting. this guy has a financial radio show and while promoting his business quite a bit, also talks about being a fiduciary and has talked about decent financial planning principals.. maybe another update in a few weeks.
If it was me, I'd go for it. Heck we are planning on a making another highly discounted vacation for a time share tour here in a few days.

First you know how to "brace yourself when corporate America tries to sell you their wrenched things". Second, there is the intellectual exercise of seeing through their BS. Third what will you be doing anyway? I assume its a night where most of us don't have anything planned.

Could you use the bathroom, during the talk, and then just walk out the door?

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Fallible » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:03 pm

elbryn1000 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:04 am
...
i'd consider going to more but i'm not sure if the 3 hours of time is worth it. there's another offer for dad sitting on my desk that only asks for those with 500k investable assets so thinking about it. ...
So everyone who attends is letting everyone else know, total strangers included, how much money they have? Really bad idea.

If your dad still wants to attend, be sure he understands this. Also, do both parents understand what these seminars are about?
Bogleheads® wiki | Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by 47Percent » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:37 pm

pkcrafter wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:21 pm
No, I've never been to one, but a friend called and asked about it. I couldn't tell him what they might pitch, but I'd guess annuities or insurance. He asked how much pressure they will put on him. I think he intends to go for the dinner and not sign up.

-added-
Agenda

America's national debt and deficit
Economic Recovery
Risk assessment
Market conditions
This is an educational workshop, no products will be sold. No agents, brokers, advisors permitted. No attendees under 55.

See, all on the up and up. :happy

I told him not to go, but he can't see any problem.

Paul

I am pretty sure one of the following bonus topics will be covered. There may even be a shill planted to ask the question just at the right time.

1) Reverse mortgages; Why it is next best thing to sliced bread and who provides it.

2) Long term care insurance, and where to buy it.

3) Best local Estate Planning attorney, who almost works for free.

4) Raffle for another free dinner if you refer 3 or more of your friends who may be in need of the above services.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Nicolas » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:57 pm

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by VictoriaF » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:06 pm

blmarsha123 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:55 pm
Mulling over another plate licking opportunity. (I mean, Exclusive Dinner Event to learn How to Reduce Your Taxes and Properly Use Your Assets in Retirement). Later this month at one of the local legend steak houses. (The coach maybe still trying to win without the QB?) Main entree choices are 8 oz filet, 12 oz NY strip, roasted chicken and salmon. Also included, house or Caesar, sides and dessert with coffee service.
Apart from the psychological stress of dealing with hard sales, this dinner is unappetizing. The beef and chicken are probably OK. The salmon is likely farmed and loaded with drugs. The Caesar salad has this horrible crunchy stuff and lettuce that went all white. The desert is the type of food that all diets agree is harmful for your health. And coffee at dinner will disturb your night sleep.

The worst: the seminar organizers can make a video of you licking a plate and then blackmail you into buying their products.

Victoria
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Re: Got my Ruth's Chris seminar invitation, "Surviving Retirement"

Post by BlackStrat » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:50 pm

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:11 pm
Equity indexed, to be precise. You know the kind...where you get "the stock market return with none of the risk". Don't get too excited when they show you the chart comparing their equity indexed annuity's performance with the S&P500...spoiler alert: the chart they show you of the S&P500 index fund's return doesn't include dividends.
ignorant question - what happens to the 'unused' balance of an annuity when you pass? Is there anything left for your heirs?

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by pkcrafter » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:52 pm

47Percent--
There may even be a shill planted to ask the question just at the right time.
I've always been very suspicious of that.

Ah, Victoria, your dinner description sounds far worse that the pitch one has to endure. Maybe they should say, "Stay and listen and sign up for the old equity indexed annuity and we won't make you eat the dinner!"


Paul
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by capjak » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:27 pm

Going on my 8th investment dinner tonight in the last 4 years (3 this year). I also have been to 5 of the free 1 hour reviews.

I have gotten fairly picky on which ones I accept now, only those at the 'best places". Have yet to be pressured to do anything at any of these. If you say nope, they move on.

I keep getting the same ones over and over again and by accident went to the same one twice. I said sorry I have already been to this and the adminstrator said no problem we have a lot of "regulars".enjoy your meal...LOL....

capjak
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by capjak » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:32 pm

capjak wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:27 pm
Going on my 8th investment dinner tonight in the last 4 years (3 this year). I also have been to 5 of the free 1 hour reviews.

I have gotten fairly picky on which ones I accept now, only those at the 'best places". Have yet to be pressured to do anything at any of these. If you say nope, they move on.

I keep getting the same ones over and over again and by accident went to the same one twice. I said sorry I have already been to this and the adminstrator said no problem we have a lot of "regulars".enjoy your meal...LOL....
Forgot to add a funny story. When we met for our free analysis with one of the FAs, he got up and said he had to go to another seminar dinner and that we were free to come and have dinner on him as he had a few open spots. My wife quickly says "Sure can we get it to go?" he laughs and quickly exits..... :D

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Whakamole » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:02 pm

Maybe I need to join AARP and get on the free dinner rounds. I'd love to learn how to sell the timeshare I don't own :beer

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