Amazon won't sell this book to me.

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TheTimeLord
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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by TheTimeLord » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:32 am

VictoriaF wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:16 am
TheTimeLord wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:46 am
oldcomputerguy wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:37 am
VictoriaF wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:20 pm
It also may be trying to prove to the primes the value of their subscription.
Seems to me that this “value” is manufactured by Amazon, rather than true value.
Seriously. Amazon has revolutionized retail and driven down prices and you don't think they have created real value? What is with all the people yelling "Get off my lawn" about Amazon?
I can't speak for oldcomputerguy, but I distinguish the value Amazon has created by creating a large marketplace and the value of Prime membership. I am a frequent Amazon user and don't want Amazon to go away. But I am trying to be smart about using Amazon, and for me using Prime is not smart.

Victoria
There is a huge difference between a service not being valuable to an individual as yourself and not having value which is what was implied by the comment Amazon is trying to manufacture value. I can't speak for anyone else but for me Prime has provided a huge value through convenience and time savings (I really value my time). Whether purchases for myself, sending gifts to friends or donating to charities being a Prime member has shown its worth in my individual case.
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baseball2horse
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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by baseball2horse » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:26 am

New data from the Consumer Intelligence Research shows that customers who spend $99 for an annual Prime membership go on to spend an average of $1,300 per year with the retailer, nearly double the amount spent by non-member customers.
Image

http://www.businessinsider.com/is-amazo ... -it-2017-7
[/quote]

I am surprised most people seem to be viewing this has causation verses simple correlation. I would expect people who like online shopping and want to do most their purchasing on amazon to be much more likely to get a prime membership then people who online shop less frequently.

It might be more interesting to see how one's amazon spending changes after getting a membership, but even that may be simple coorelation. IE i needed to buy a lot from amazon after moving to a new house and needing to furnish it so I obtained a membership. It would appear that getting a membership caused me to spend more money, but I was planning on spending that money anyway

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TheTimeLord
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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by TheTimeLord » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:29 am

baseball2horse wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:26 am
New data from the Consumer Intelligence Research shows that customers who spend $99 for an annual Prime membership go on to spend an average of $1,300 per year with the retailer, nearly double the amount spent by non-member customers.
Image

http://www.businessinsider.com/is-amazo ... -it-2017-7
I am surprised most people seem to be viewing this has causation verses simple correlation. I would expect people who like online shopping and want to do most their purchasing on amazon to be much more likely to get a prime membership then people who online shop less frequently.

It might be more interesting to see how one's amazon spending changes after getting a membership, but even that may be simple coorelation. IE i needed to buy a lot from amazon after moving to a new house and needing to furnish it so I obtained a membership. It would appear that getting a membership caused me to spend more money, but I was planning on spending that money anyway
[/quote]

Having Prime has probably increased my spend with Amazon by 10-20x. And I would say 10x is pretty consistent with all my friends, especially since we live in an area with free same and next day delivery on a large number of items. Take away same or next day delivery and I would probably reroute many purchases to local merchants.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

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TheTimeLord
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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by TheTimeLord » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:31 am

TheTimeLord wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:29 am
baseball2horse wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:26 am
New data from the Consumer Intelligence Research shows that customers who spend $99 for an annual Prime membership go on to spend an average of $1,300 per year with the retailer, nearly double the amount spent by non-member customers.
Image

http://www.businessinsider.com/is-amazo ... -it-2017-7
I am surprised most people seem to be viewing this has causation verses simple correlation. I would expect people who like online shopping and want to do most their purchasing on amazon to be much more likely to get a prime membership then people who online shop less frequently.

It might be more interesting to see how one's amazon spending changes after getting a membership, but even that may be simple coorelation. IE i needed to buy a lot from amazon after moving to a new house and needing to furnish it so I obtained a membership. It would appear that getting a membership caused me to spend more money, but I was planning on spending that money anyway
Having Prime has probably increased my spend with Amazon by 10-20x. And I would say 10x is pretty consistent with all my friends, especially since we live in an area with free same and next day delivery on a large number of items. Take away same or next day delivery and I would probably reroute many purchases to local merchants.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

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Pajamas
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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by Pajamas » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:45 am

TheTimeLord wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:46 am
Seriously. Amazon has revolutionized retail and driven down prices and you don't think they have created real value?
People tend to forget that before Amazon, if you wanted a book you had to go to the library or bookstore to even see what was available on the topic. Searching was clumsy at the library (remember microfiche?) and you had to stand at the counter while the employee looked in the computer at the bookstore.

Then you could choose from the limited selection available at the library or bookstore or ask if the library could borrow the books from another library or if the bookstore could order them for you. ("Sorry, that particular book is not available to order.")

Then you waited for a week or more and frequently the books you were waiting for never materialized and sometimes with no explanation. Sometimes at the library you even had to put your name on a list so that you could eventually get your turn at it. Any book ordered from the bookstore was priced at full retail.

Contrast that with searching for a book online and downloading it to your computer or e-reader and starting to read it all in less than a minute. If you just read for pleasure and don't require any particular book, there are plenty of them included with Prime membership at no additional charge.

Yes, I understand all of this is more about the advancement of technology rather than Amazon, but Amazon pioneered in commercializing the technology to make access to books easy for the masses in physical or electronic form. They still do it better than anyone else. Even borrowing e-books from my library is much clumsier than on Amazon.

I remember explaining Amazon to someone who had never heard of it as "a bookstore where you can buy almost any book published". Now I don't think I know anyone who isn't familiar with Amazon. It all happened in less than 25 years.

mouses
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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by mouses » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:53 pm

TheTimeLord wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:42 am
mouses wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:51 am
Amazon's delivery has been a problem with my last two orders.
I am sure delivery quality differs from area to area, but the question would be who was the carrier in your area and if a different carrier would be used by another internet retailer.
It's unclear which carrier was involved. In both cases Amazon's tracking info showed the package leaving Amazon to some intermediate carrier (not specified which) that was supposed to deliver it to the USPS, but it never got to the USPS, instead it went into limbo.

mouses
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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by mouses » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:57 pm

Pajamas wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:45 am
TheTimeLord wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:46 am
Seriously. Amazon has revolutionized retail and driven down prices and you don't think they have created real value?
People tend to forget that before Amazon, if you wanted a book you had to go to the library or bookstore to even see what was available on the topic. Searching was clumsy at the library (remember microfiche?) and you had to stand at the counter while the employee looked in the computer at the bookstore.

Then you could choose from the limited selection available at the library or bookstore or ask if the library could borrow the books from another library or if the bookstore could order them for you. ("Sorry, that particular book is not available to order.")

Then you waited for a week or more and frequently the books you were waiting for never materialized and sometimes with no explanation. Sometimes at the library you even had to put your name on a list so that you could eventually get your turn at it. Any book ordered from the bookstore was priced at full retail.

Contrast that with searching for a book online and downloading it to your computer or e-reader and starting to read it all in less than a minute. If you just read for pleasure and don't require any particular book, there are plenty of them included with Prime membership at no additional charge.

Yes, I understand all of this is more about the advancement of technology rather than Amazon, but Amazon pioneered in commercializing the technology to make access to books easy for the masses in physical or electronic form. They still do it better than anyone else. Even borrowing e-books from my library is much clumsier than on Amazon.

I remember explaining Amazon to someone who had never heard of it as "a bookstore where you can buy almost any book published". Now I don't think I know anyone who isn't familiar with Amazon. It all happened in less than 25 years.
It's quite simple to get an ebook from my library, and unlike Amazon, it doesn't cost anything and the library workers are paid enough so that they don't have to use food stamps. The selection is quite wide.

Silk McCue
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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by Silk McCue » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:47 pm

mouses wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:57 pm
It's quite simple to get an ebook from my library, and unlike Amazon, it doesn't cost anything and the library workers are paid enough so that they don't have to use food stamps. The selection is quite wide.
Nice swipe at Amazon suggesting that their employees are on food stamps because we all know that no one working a low skill job in any brick and mortar store has ever been on food stamps. It is strictly an Amazon thing.

Just trying to keep it real.

Cheers

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Pajamas
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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by Pajamas » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:44 am

mouses wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:57 pm
the library workers are paid enough so that they don't have to use food stamps.
How much are your library workers paid? Do you know?

The Amazon workers involved in e-books are probably paid the same or more as library workers doing the same tasks. If you are comparing your library workers to Amazon's warehouse workers, that's not a fair comparison as far as pay or working conditions.

I think it is generally correct to criticize the pay and/or treatment of many workers in the U.S. but that it is incorrect to single out Amazon for pay. Amazon jobs seem to be in high demand, even the lower-paid ones like warehouse positions managed by third parties that I would consider very undesirable. They are apparently not so bad when looking at comparable alternative employment.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:11 am

Pajamas wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:44 am
mouses wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:57 pm
the library workers are paid enough so that they don't have to use food stamps.
How much are your library workers paid? Do you know?

The Amazon workers involved in e-books are probably paid the same or more as library workers doing the same tasks. If you are comparing your library workers to Amazon's warehouse workers, that's not a fair comparison as far as pay or working conditions.

I think it is generally correct to criticize the pay and/or treatment of many workers in the U.S. but that it is incorrect to single out Amazon for pay. Amazon jobs seem to be in high demand, even the lower-paid ones like warehouse positions managed by third parties that I would consider very undesirable. They are apparently not so bad when looking at comparable alternative employment.
I have always felt that IF an individual had a better employment opportunity other than working for (insert name of your choice) then surely they would exercise their freedom to seek other employment.

But, that's just me.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven than I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

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Pajamas
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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by Pajamas » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:21 am

Broken Man 1999 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:11 am

I have always felt that IF an individual had a better employment opportunity other than working for (insert name of your choice) then surely they would exercise their freedom to seek other employment.
I agree in theory but see just the opposite in practice. Many people exhibit inertia and avoid change and risk.

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TheTimeLord
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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by TheTimeLord » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:00 pm

Pajamas wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:21 am
Broken Man 1999 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:11 am

I have always felt that IF an individual had a better employment opportunity other than working for (insert name of your choice) then surely they would exercise their freedom to seek other employment.
I agree in theory but see just the opposite in practice. Many people exhibit inertia and avoid change and risk.
Agree, this is why you usually lose the people you want to keep with voluntary early retirement programs. You lose people who are willing to take risk and confidence in their ability to get another job and those who feel they don't have the skills to compete outside the company and those who avoid risk stay.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

mouses
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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by mouses » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:40 pm

Pajamas wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:44 am
mouses wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:57 pm
the library workers are paid enough so that they don't have to use food stamps.
How much are your library workers paid? Do you know?

The Amazon workers involved in e-books are probably paid the same or more as library workers doing the same tasks. If you are comparing your library workers to Amazon's warehouse workers, that's not a fair comparison as far as pay or working conditions.

I think it is generally correct to criticize the pay and/or treatment of many workers in the U.S. but that it is incorrect to single out Amazon for pay. Amazon jobs seem to be in high demand, even the lower-paid ones like warehouse positions managed by third parties that I would consider very undesirable. They are apparently not so bad when looking at comparable alternative employment.
The web says amazon's lowest paid workers make about $12 an hour. The least skilled library employees (book stackers, etc.) in my town make about $18 an hour.

Just because there are people desperate for jobs does not mean they should be paid like dirt.

Silk McCue
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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by Silk McCue » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:46 pm

mouses wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:40 pm
The web says amazon's lowest paid workers make about $12 an hour. The least skilled library employees (book stackers, etc.) in my town make about $18 an hour.

Just because there are people desperate for jobs does not mean they should be paid like dirt.
Now this is getting political just like I knew it would when you chose to make your first disparaging comment about Amazon employees pay. We all know the rules here, please don't go down this path. That's not what this site is for. I am full of opinions that don't need to be shared here as do many others.

Cheers

sls239
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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by sls239 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:56 pm

I think the irony here is that Amazon started as a low-cost bookseller.

But the responses here - "Someone else will sell you the book" and "Who cares if Amazon has the cheapest price?"

It is almost as if the reasons people liked Amazon in the first place are disappearing. And maybe they aren't important anymore. Or maybe they are.

Although it is interesting that Amazon owns Zappos and Zappos still seems to be for shoes what Amazon had been for books. Of course, shoes are highly resistant to being digitized.

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Jazztonight
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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by Jazztonight » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:21 pm

Is this thread about "I couldn't buy this book from Amazon"? or "Let's all tell horror stories about Amazon"?

I'm a Prime member, and to me it's worth it. I also love Costco.

However, let me add these two recent experiences:

1. An item that was delivered to my apartment building and signed for by our doorman somehow never made it to my mailbox. It just plain disappeared. I waited a couple of days, then sent a message to the customer service department at Amazon, asking for a call-back. They called a few minutes later. I reported the problem to the guy, he chatted with me for a couple of minutes, and then informed me that a replacement was on its way, no charge, no problem. I got it in a day or two.

2. I wanted to buy a 5 lb. container of the protein powder I like. At Amazon, it was over $60. So I checked elsewhere, and ordered it for $42 from Walmart. I mean, how long did this "comparison shopping" take me? Five minutes?

I dislike shopping a lot. That's why I like shopping at Amazon. It saves me time and energy, and sometimes money. But it doesn't always save money. Me, I'm willing to pay extra for convenience.

We just received a delivery from Costco via Instacart for ~$130 worth of household items, paper goods, and mostly organic groceries. Why drive 20-30 minutes (each way) in traffic to Costco, shlep all the stuff to my car, etc., when I can pay a few bucks extra for someone else to do it? Yet, I will drive to Costco to get gas--it's cheaper and I get a credit card discount. I just don't fill up that often.
"What does not destroy me, makes me stronger." Nietzsche

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Pajamas
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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by Pajamas » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:59 pm

mouses wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:40 pm
The web says amazon's lowest paid workers make about $12 an hour. The least skilled library employees (book stackers, etc.) in my town make about $18 an hour.
Again, you can't fairly compare pay for jobs that aren't at least approximately equivalent.
Just because there are people desperate for jobs does not mean they should be paid like dirt.
Agreed, but that's certainly not unique to Amazon.

I also think you should look up the income limitations for food stamps (or SNAP as the program is now called). Someone making $12 an hour and working full time probably wouldn't qualify unless they had two dependents or more and no other household income.

Valuethinker
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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by Valuethinker » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:05 am

Pajamas wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:21 am
Broken Man 1999 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:11 am

I have always felt that IF an individual had a better employment opportunity other than working for (insert name of your choice) then surely they would exercise their freedom to seek other employment.
I agree in theory but see just the opposite in practice. Many people exhibit inertia and avoid change and risk.
Welcome to the modern economic theory and evidence read Labour Markets. Very different from when we did ECON 101.

That first year textbook story of supply and demand for labour just doesn't work, empirically. If it did we would not have had recessions.

In fact, labour markets are largely monopsony. The consumer ie the employers, have considerable market power. And they do not hire at the marginal price because that would force them to raise wages for their existing labour force too.

If you are a petroleum geologist this probably works to your advantage. There is a shortage of your skills and companies pay big money to recruit you. In the same way that newly minted assistant professors in Accounting get paid almost as much as a full professor w tenure. Say usd 150k pa I understand. If you are Dean and you want to raise your ranking as a school, you need the hottest young PhDs that year on the job market, and there are very few accounting PhD of quality in any given year.

But for the average low skilled worker this plays against them.

And Search is expensive and information is asymmetric - you don't know what value you will create for the employer.

Chris Pissarides at the London School of Economics recently won the Nobel Prize for his work on search theory in labour economics.

On the minimum wage the vituperative attacks on Kruger and Card tell you how much they go against vested interests. There's a lot of money riding on them bring wrong. A *lot* of money.

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Re: Amazon won't sell this book to me.

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:10 am

This thread has run its course (derailed, general rant). See: Personal Consumer Issues
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