Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

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LadyIJ
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Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by LadyIJ » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:02 am

I want to buy a 2014 ES350. I have to do the haggling, as my husband is not good at that at all (and will actually fight with me when I haggle - so it's on me).

I want to buy at the dealership near us - I know if I get somewhere else they will not do the carwashes (no big deal) but I guess they have to do the maintenance at any Lexus dealership? Not sure on that.

I've read where someone has gotten them down over 15% (was it Livesoft?) but I'm not sure if that applies to wanting a certain sedan, certain colors, no accidents, one owner! I just want to see if you have any pointers for me - here are my thoughts:

1. Go to Carmax and get a written offer on husband's trade in
2. Go to dealership with printouts of similar ES350's for sale, similar upgrades, etc. for less
3. Not mention trade in until deal is made

I know the "trade in value" for the Lexus is a lot less than what they are listing these for. For instance the two we are looking at - one is a 2014 white lexus, luxury w/navigation 32,000 miles for $25,995 - they've had it for awhile, I don't know what the tires are like, etc. Haven't seen it in person The other is a black identical features with 20,000 miles for $27,996. I know they say cast a wide net, so I'm going to spend today looking at others and tell tell this dealership we would be willing to travel. It was much easier buying new, as I could figure out what the dealer's cost was and then added some for a commission and profit.

Any thoughts would be appreciated! Maybe it's as simple as what I have outlined . .

livesoft
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by livesoft » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:40 pm

Well, you have characterized what I would do, but then decided that you might not do it:

1. Cast a wider net.

2. Buy a car that was in a minor accident.

3. Start at 20% off and negotiate to 15% off.

4. Accept a different color and features to get the price lower, but in no case buy a car with a black / dark interior.

5. Do most negotiation over the phone.
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Maverick3320
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by Maverick3320 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:43 pm

Shop around for similar year models on Cargurus for a decent guide on what you should expect to see for prices.

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Alexa9
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by Alexa9 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:44 pm

I would cross shop with an Avalon - practically identical car without the L on the front. Probably half the price.

delamer
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by delamer » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:54 pm

Check edmunds.com or kbb.com. They will give you estimates of how much to pay for the Lexus and how much you’ll get for your trade-in.

Any Lexus dealership can do the maintenance. You can buy the car elsewhere and have the service done at your local dealership.

The best negotiating tactic is the willingness to walk away.

anil686
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by anil686 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:54 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:44 pm
I would cross shop with an Avalon - practically identical car without the L on the front. Probably half the price.
+1

Also, you do not need to get service done at the Lexus dealer. I asked a question on this forum a year ago about finding a good mechanic. One of the responses was the npr website for car talk which maintains a database of reputable mechanics with reviews. I found my mechanic through there and pay much less than the dealer without the upselling.

LadyIJ
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by LadyIJ » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:58 pm

anil686 wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:54 pm
Alexa9 wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:44 pm
I would cross shop with an Avalon - practically identical car without the L on the front. Probably half the price.
+1

Also, you do not need to get service done at the Lexus dealer. I asked a question on this forum a year ago about finding a good mechanic. One of the responses was the npr website for car talk which maintains a database of reputable mechanics with reviews. I found my mechanic through there and pay much less than the dealer without the upselling.
I think when it's CPO, you do the work with Lexus. After the warranty, for sure we would use our own mechanic.

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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by FrugalInvestor » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:58 pm

delamer wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:54 pm
The best negotiating tactic is the willingness to walk away.
+1
Remember that there many other Lexus dealers with CPO cars.
IGNORE the noise! | Our life is frittered away by detail... simplify, simplify. - Henry David Thoreau

LadyIJ
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by LadyIJ » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:59 pm

livesoft wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:40 pm
Well, you have characterized what I would do, but then decided that you might not do it:

1. Cast a wider net.

2. Buy a car that was in a minor accident.

3. Start at 20% off and negotiate to 15% off.

4. Accept a different color and features to get the price lower, but in no case buy a car with a black / dark interior.

5. Do most negotiation over the phone.
I will let them think I'm casting a wider net and use those comps. I will start out at 20% discount as you suggest. I will call on the phone and negotiate before going in, but WHY NO DARK INTERIOR? THANKS!!!!

livesoft
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by livesoft » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:59 pm

Too hot in the summer.
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Barefoot Cane
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by Barefoot Cane » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:27 pm

The Lexus ES is being completely redesigned for 2019. The pictures are already on the internet so you can take a look. Try the Automobile magazine website. I suggest that you wait a little bit since the new ES will cause the value of the previous versions to become lower in price. If you really want the ES, I suggest you consider a 2018. Lexus will try to move the inventory before the new model hits the dealerships. Check Edmunds for "incentives and rebates". Some times they are surprisingly large. If you get a 2018 you will have a new car with a new car warranty. The Lexus dealers use the ES as loaner cars when they are keeping a customer's Lexus overnight. The car should be looked over carefully if you are getting a used one. Take notice of tire wear in particular. You don't want to be heading for Costco for a new set of tires the first year you own a used car.
I saw someone suggested a Toyota Avalon. I suggest you take a look at it and drive it. It has a longer wheelbase (distance between the front axel and real axel) and therefore a better ride. You can notice the difference. I think the base Avalon is around thirty and you will have a new car with a three year warranty. I think both the ES and the Avalon are both made in Georgetown, Ky so you are likely getting the same build quality. I owned two Avalons and they were trouble free (except for the one that I gave my daughter while she was in college and law school and at about 150,000 miles we had some trouble with it). I buy cars new and keep them for ten plus years.
The advice you are getting about shopping using the internet is good. Always check Edmunds for incentives and rebates and the invoice price. Good luck.

MrJones
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by MrJones » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:34 pm

livesoft wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:40 pm

4. Accept a different color and features to get the price lower, but in no case buy a car with a black / dark interior.
Why?

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Kenkat
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by Kenkat » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:04 pm

My opinion, having bought a CPO of another brand last year, the only way you will get 20% off a used car listed on the internet is if it is way overpriced relative to all the other cars also listed. Which does happen, but there will likely also be other dealers who price the cars for quick sale knowing the transparency of pricing on the internet. In effect, you already have a competitive bid situation due to the nature of the internet.

I would spend some time on a site like cars.com, autotrader.com, or cargurus.com and search for the model you want in the trim level you want, for the year you want plus maybe one year earlier and one year later. Note, if there was a major model change, the earlier or later year may not apply.

Get an idea of what pricing should be, who is high, who is competitive, what the basic car you are looking for goes for. Then either look for the car you want at the price you want or use that information as negotiation. But you should get an idea of what is the going price for the car is and that is your negotiation point rather than some arbitrary percent off.

In my case, I looked for about 3 months before I found “my car”. The price was towards the bottom end of the range of prices - i.e., near the price I wanted to pay. I made an offer, they came back with a counter-offer and basically said, look, this car is going to sell at where we have it price-wise. I was pretty sure they were right and the car had only been on the market for about 10 days. I got a more modest discount - around 4% - but I already knew what was a good price in my mind and hit that number.

Cars.com also has a nice pricing map to allow you to compare prices across different sellers.

If you are just walking on the dealer lot looking at window prices, that’s a different situation.

eddot98
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by eddot98 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:42 pm

Why a 2014? Our last 4 Toyota Camry’s have been purchased as off lease cars. 2015 Lexus’s should be coming off lease now. The 2015 looks like the 2014 and does not have the 2016 updated grill that hasn’t been going over very well with some folks.

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Alexa9
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by Alexa9 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:46 pm

MrJones wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:34 pm
livesoft wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:40 pm

4. Accept a different color and features to get the price lower, but in no case buy a car with a black / dark interior.
Why?
I agree that it is pretty brutal in the summer to have a black interior even with window tint. I do like the look though.

LadyIJ
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by LadyIJ » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:59 pm

Barefoot Cane wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:27 pm
The Lexus ES is being completely redesigned for 2019. The pictures are already on the internet so you can take a look. Try the Automobile magazine website. I suggest that you wait a little bit since the new ES will cause the value of the previous versions to become lower in price. If you really want the ES, I suggest you consider a 2018. Lexus will try to move the inventory before the new model hits the dealerships. Check Edmunds for "incentives and rebates". Some times they are surprisingly large. If you get a 2018 you will have a new car with a new car warranty. The Lexus dealers use the ES as loaner cars when they are keeping a customer's Lexus overnight. The car should be looked over carefully if you are getting a used one. Take notice of tire wear in particular. You don't want to be heading for Costco for a new set of tires the first year you own a used car.
I saw someone suggested a Toyota Avalon. I suggest you take a look at it and drive it. It has a longer wheelbase (distance between the front axel and real axel) and therefore a better ride. You can notice the difference. I think the base Avalon is around thirty and you will have a new car with a three year warranty. I think both the ES and the Avalon are both made in Georgetown, Ky so you are likely getting the same build quality. I owned two Avalons and they were trouble free (except for the one that I gave my daughter while she was in college and law school and at about 150,000 miles we had some trouble with it). I buy cars new and keep them for ten plus years.
The advice you are getting about shopping using the internet is good. Always check Edmunds for incentives and rebates and the invoice price. Good luck.
I will consider what you are saying and check out the prices on the 2018; however, I do like a car built in Japan and the last batch was in 2015 . .

LadyIJ
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by LadyIJ » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:02 pm

Thanks everyone - I do like the look of black interior, but will probably cave to my husband and get the parchment. I will take everyone's post to heart - I do like a car made in Japan, but can look at the 2015's and also as suggested see prices on the 2018's. Thanks again.

InvisibleAerobar
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by InvisibleAerobar » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:47 pm

I know that they stopped making them in Japan (I think with the 2016 editions?), but with a 2014, you'll be getting only two (or maybe three) years of warranty on your CPO.

Other things to consider:

-your warranty is not transferable. Probably a non-issue for you, but just in case you might want to have the title transferred to parent/kid, etc
-check the actual vehicle purchase date. My dad bought a nominally 2015 Lexus last year, but the first owner bought it in early 2016. This means that the coverage extends all the way to early 2022 (four years original warranty, starting at 2016, then two more on top).
-Depending on your location, that sounds like quite a bit to pay for a 2014. The ES350 my dad bought had less than 11k miles and cost $31500 to drive off of the lot (including taxes, fees, and registration).
-some dealerships are vipers. No other way to put it. We got hit with etch fee, vehicle restoration fee, and bunch of other fees I don't remember. It came out to be ~$1500 on top of the asking price.
-and when the salesperson is done with you, the finance person will do his/her best to get you to purchase some useless warranty. Some prices are available only when you finance the car (though you can pay it off afterwards), which means you will have to talk to the finance person and listen to his/her spiel. I got conned into paying $1k for some useless warranty, but was able to have it cancelled later.
-take your time and re-read the contract to make sure all the terms are correct.

DavidW
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by DavidW » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:46 pm

I bought a used 2014 Avalon (similar to ES350) last year with 27,000 miles for $25K after tax/registration.... I drove a camry for years and thought it was a good car until I drove the Avalon. It is another level in terms of smoothness and refinement.

The one thing I didn't care for is the stiffness of the car and the limited bottom padding on the front seats. Others have commented the same thing. You might want to see if it will work for you.

I purchased the car from a Lincoln dealer but when I looked at the Carfax, the previous owner bought it off Toyota as a CPO. So, it has passed all the tests of what a CPO suppose to meet....

So as you search the internet, you might want to look through the carfax to see if you find one that was previously certified...

Pensky owns a lot of car dealerships across the country and maybe you can see if there is one local that might have a ES350....

Leesbro63
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by Leesbro63 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:45 pm

My advice is to buy new. I bought a CPO off-lease 2006 RX350 in 2009 from the Lexus dealer. Added an extended warranty. Within the first year I needed brakes and tires. Kept it 3 years. Upon trade in, the same dealer found a panel that had been repainted (prior to my purchase) that, frankly, we never noticed. Still got a decent trade in but not stellar. When I did the math, the total cost was very similar to if I had bought new to begin with and kept it 6 years (adjusting for the fact that I would have kept the new car twice as long). Unless you can get the used vehicle A LOT lower than the new car cost, I wouldn't do it. The nice thing about Toy/Hon/Lex is that they hold their value better than most vehicles. But that works against the used car buyer.

livesoft
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by livesoft » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:54 pm

Leesbro63 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:45 pm
My advice is to buy new.
I think that is a possibility. A well-negotiated new 2018 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited probably costs the same as a poorly negotiated 3-year old Lexus RX350 with similar features.
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Leesbro63
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by Leesbro63 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:58 pm

livesoft wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:54 pm
Leesbro63 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:45 pm
My advice is to buy new.
I think that is a possibility. A well-negotiated new 2018 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited probably costs the same as a poorly negotiated 3-year old Lexus RX350 with similar features.
Even a well-negotiated new Lexus might not cost that much more per mile, if anything, than a highly price-inflated 3 year old CPO Lexus. It will cost more upfront, I concede.

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ram
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Re: Buying CPO Lexus - any advice appreciated

Post by ram » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:43 pm

Ram

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