long term care insurance

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WoW2012
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:28 am

Re: long term care insurance

Post by WoW2012 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:54 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:52 pm
WoW2012 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:47 pm
JoeRetire wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:55 am
WoW2012 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:23 am
Fortunately, the Rate Stability Regulation has removed the incentive for insurance companies to “price policyholders out”. Over 90% of the rate increases you hear about are on policies that are not protected by the Rate Stability Regulation.
It's nice to hear from someone who understands the (admittedly complex) details of insurance, and in particular LTCi, rather than folks who just parrot headlines or bullet points that they don't really comprehend.

How can I find out if my policy is protected by the Rate Stability Regulation or not?

Thanks!
It depends upon the state you were a resident of when you bought the policy and when you bought the policy. Also, there are some group policies (e.g. the federal long-term care insurance program, CalPERS, WERS, and other self-funded groups) that do not comply with the Rate Stability Regulation. If you bought a policy from the FLTCIP or CalPERS or WERS, then your policy is not protected by the Rate Stability Regulation.

Ask the agent you bought your policy from. He/she should know.
Resident of MA. Bought it in 2014 - no increases in premiums so far. Mutual of Omaha.
I was hoping there would be some phrase in the policy that would indicate compliance with the Rate Stability Regulation?

I'll try to hunt down the agent...

Thanks!

Massachusetts is one of 9 states that has not enacted the Rate Stability Regulation.
You've got a great company, though.

JoeRetire
Posts: 1495
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: long term care insurance

Post by JoeRetire » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:59 pm

WoW2012 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:54 pm
Massachusetts is one of 9 states that has not enacted the Rate Stability Regulation.
You've got a great company, though.
We've been pleased with the company and policy so far.

It appears that MA passed Chapter 312 of the Acts of 2012, An Act Establishing Standards for Long-Term Care Insurance, for policies issues after the beginning of 2013. Maybe that's not the same as Rate Stability?

Hmm, what about Maine?

While we are currently residents of MA, we will be retiring in Maine in the next year or two.
So when we purchased the policy, we used our Maine address (we have a home there too, where we intend to move upon retirement).

[edit]I found this:
All but nine states have not enacted any type of Rate Stability Regulation:

Alaska
Connecticut
Indiana
Massachusetts
Mississippi
Nebraska
Nevada
New York
Wyoming

Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

WoW2012
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:28 am

Re: long term care insurance

Post by WoW2012 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:13 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:59 pm
WoW2012 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:54 pm
Massachusetts is one of 9 states that has not enacted the Rate Stability Regulation.
You've got a great company, though.
We've been pleased with the company and policy so far.

It appears that MA passed Chapter 312 of the Acts of 2012, An Act Establishing Standards for Long-Term Care Insurance, for policies issues after the beginning of 2013. Maybe that's not the same as Rate Stability?

Hmm, what about Maine?

While we are currently residents of MA, we will be retiring in Maine in the next year or two.
So when we purchased the policy, we used our Maine address (we have a home there too, where we intend to move upon retirement).

[edit]I found this:
All but nine states have not enacted any type of Rate Stability Regulation:

Alaska
Connecticut
Indiana
Massachusetts
Mississippi
Nebraska
Nevada
New York
Wyoming

Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

If you used your Maine address when you applied for the policy, then you would have been issued a Maine-approved policy, which would mean that your policy is covered by the Rate Stability Regulation.

JoeRetire
Posts: 1495
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: long term care insurance

Post by JoeRetire » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:15 pm

WoW2012 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:13 pm
If you used your Maine address when you applied for the policy, then you would have been issued a Maine-approved policy, which would mean that your policy is covered by the Rate Stability Regulation.
Good news!

Thanks again!

littlebird
Posts: 1398
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:05 pm
Location: Valley of the Sun, AZ

Re: long term care insurance

Post by littlebird » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:44 pm

WoW2012 wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:11 pm

Quick question: if/when you ever need long-term care, will all of your other living expenses magically disappear?
It depends on what kind of care you need, can afford, and are willing to put up with. When my spouse was in an assisted living group home — with excellent care — costing $48,000/year, additional expenses were only the 20% Medicare copay for his medical needs, prescriptions, and medical and incontinence supplies. Now he is being cared for at home, with 6 hours a day of caregiver help at $50,000/year, plus about $8,000/year additional food and utilities expenses. Of course, this requires there to be a home — with all its residual expenses — to go home to. Some people can be alone, with caregiver help, in their home, and some can only do it if there’s a family member to supervise, manage and be a second pair of hands, full or part time. No-one knows in advance what their needs are going to be, but there are some affordable alternatives.

For the curious: we had no LTC insurance, retired early and very early, respectively, and on a relative shoe-string 30 years ago. Given my spouse’s current age, these expenses will likely not go on for more years than we can afford (drawing down less than 4% currently, having converted some assets to an annuity on my life).

JoeRetire
Posts: 1495
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: long term care insurance

Post by JoeRetire » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:42 pm

littlebird wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:44 pm
WoW2012 wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:11 pm

Quick question: if/when you ever need long-term care, will all of your other living expenses magically disappear?
It depends on what kind of care you need, can afford, and are willing to put up with. When my spouse was in an assisted living group home — with excellent care — costing $48,000/year, additional expenses were only the 20% Medicare copay for his medical needs, prescriptions, and medical and incontinence supplies.
That's your spouse. But what about your expenses? They didn't disappear.

littlebird
Posts: 1398
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:05 pm
Location: Valley of the Sun, AZ

Re: long term care insurance

Post by littlebird » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:42 pm
littlebird wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:44 pm
WoW2012 wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:11 pm

Quick question: if/when you ever need long-term care, will all of your other living expenses magically disappear?
It depends on what kind of care you need, can afford, and are willing to put up with. When my spouse was in an assisted living group home — with excellent care — costing $48,000/year, additional expenses were only the 20% Medicare copay for his medical needs, prescriptions, and medical and incontinence supplies.
That's your spouse. But what about your expenses? They didn't disappear.
Not everybody has a (living) spouse.

JoeRetire
Posts: 1495
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: long term care insurance

Post by JoeRetire » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:57 pm

littlebird wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm
JoeRetire wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:42 pm
littlebird wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:44 pm
WoW2012 wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:11 pm

Quick question: if/when you ever need long-term care, will all of your other living expenses magically disappear?
It depends on what kind of care you need, can afford, and are willing to put up with. When my spouse was in an assisted living group home — with excellent care — costing $48,000/year, additional expenses were only the 20% Medicare copay for his medical needs, prescriptions, and medical and incontinence supplies.
That's your spouse. But what about your expenses? They didn't disappear.
Not everybody has a (living) spouse.
I understand that. You did. And you had expenses that didn't go away.

littlebird
Posts: 1398
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:05 pm
Location: Valley of the Sun, AZ

Re: long term care insurance

Post by littlebird » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:32 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:57 pm
littlebird wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm
JoeRetire wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:42 pm
littlebird wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:44 pm
WoW2012 wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:11 pm

Quick question: if/when you ever need long-term care, will all of your other living expenses magically disappear?
It depends on what kind of care you need, can afford, and are willing to put up with. When my spouse was in an assisted living group home — with excellent care — costing $48,000/year, additional expenses were only the 20% Medicare copay for his medical needs, prescriptions, and medical and incontinence supplies.
That's your spouse. But what about your expenses? They didn't disappear.
Not everybody has a (living) spouse.
I understand that. You did. And you had expenses that didn't go away.
But I am not in long term care. My spouse IS. And his expenses of daily living DID go away when in the group home, except for those items mentioned. For those alone in late life, yes, their usual expenses mostly CAN go away, if they go into a facility, or may not go away, if they get care in their home.

JoeRetire
Posts: 1495
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: long term care insurance

Post by JoeRetire » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:09 pm

littlebird wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:32 pm
But I am not in long term care. My spouse IS. And his expenses of daily living DID go away when in the group home, except for those items mentioned.
Much of the reason behind LTCi is not to burden the rest of the family when long-term care is needed.

The person needing long term care can end up draining the family's assets, time, and resources. His expenses might go down, but unless you are willing to vacate your home, much of the overall family expenses remain.

That was the point.

carruthers209
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:35 pm

Re: long term care insurance

Post by carruthers209 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:24 pm

https://www.wsj.com/articles/long-term- ... 1528387201

This article in the Wall Street Journal was just posted (June 11th) and highlights hybrid policies which for some families, could be very helpful. It's an interesting read. It's definitely aimed at the more affluent and provides some life insurance even when the long term care is utilized. Can't promise the hyperlink will work. I downloaded the article from Apple News.

Nate79
Posts: 3324
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:24 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: long term care insurance

Post by Nate79 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:40 pm

carruthers209 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:24 pm
https://www.wsj.com/articles/long-term- ... 1528387201

This article in the Wall Street Journal was just posted (June 11th) and highlights hybrid policies which for some families, could be very helpful. It's an interesting read. It's definitely aimed at the more affluent and provides some life insurance even when the long term care is utilized. Can't promise the hyperlink will work. I downloaded the article from Apple News.
The comments in that article were quite interesting about how bad these products really are. This is still Whole life insurance.

ncbill
Posts: 346
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:03 pm

Re: long term care insurance

Post by ncbill » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:03 am

Nate79 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:40 pm
carruthers209 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:24 pm
https://www.wsj.com/articles/long-term- ... 1528387201

This article in the Wall Street Journal was just posted (June 11th) and highlights hybrid policies which for some families, could be very helpful. It's an interesting read. It's definitely aimed at the more affluent and provides some life insurance even when the long term care is utilized. Can't promise the hyperlink will work. I downloaded the article from Apple News.
The comments in that article were quite interesting about how bad these products really are. This is still Whole life insurance.
Make sure it's straight whole life.

A few years ago my insurance agent tried to get me to exchange an old plain-vanilla whole life policy for one of these hybrids.

Dumping in $100,000 cash value from the existing policy with add'l premiums of $10,000/year for 10 years.

But the new policy was universal life, not traditional whole life.

So, looking at the guarantee, the policy ran out of money and blew up in my 60s.

Yeah, thanks but no thanks, buddy.

capemaydiamond
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:32 pm

Re: long term care insurance

Post by capemaydiamond » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:43 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:38 pm
capemaydiamond wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:25 pm
...On another note, I have requested email notification when someone posts on this topic and I'm not getting them. Any thoughts about why not? I can't find my email address anywhere on the site to confirm the correct one is on file, and I can't find any info about a forum administrator to ask this kind of thing.......
I sent you a PM.

(Thanks to the member who reported the post to get our attention.)
Lady Geek - I just looked for your PM and it says it was deleted.....

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