How much to invest in elementary education?

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ThankYouJack
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How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by ThankYouJack » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:58 pm

Our district elementary school doesn't get the best grades and my oldest child who will be going there next year is advanced in that she was reading at 4, has an amazing memory and likes to learn. She's also sensitive and shy/reserved especially in a school setting. The school one district over would be a better fit (better test scores, less bullying incidents), but because of housing costs it would cost us $20-$30k / year for a similar set up. I don't think we'd want to send our kids to a religious private school and the secular private schools are about $18-$23k per year. We could afford it but we could also put that money towards some other great things including a 529.

Anyway just wondering how others feel, especially those who have been through a similar situation.

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Sandtrap
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by Sandtrap » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:16 pm

Whether public or private, the social environment is as important as the academic standard. When you choose a school you are choosing your child's peers.

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JBTX
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by JBTX » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:42 pm

It's really hard to say for any particular situation without knowing the exact specifics. But my take is for the most part your child will rise to her potential regardless. There have been some studies that generally bear that out. Worst case Look at it this way. Go to the local public school and hire a supplemental tutor with some of the savings.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2006/07/15/e ... eport.html

The numbers for private school will look better than public. But when you adjust for demographics, not so much. I'm going to guess the same can be true for a highly ranked public school vs one not ranked quite as high. It is mostly an indication of the affluence of the families in the school district.

My kids went to an elementary school which was ranked fairly high. It became an English as 2nd language school a day the rankings dropped a bit. The school didn't change, just the composition of the kids. Conversely another nearby new school became more highly ranked as our neighborhood filled out and the area became relatively more affluent. I seriously doubt the school got that much better. Also the middle school has increased in rankings as the concentration of more affluent neighborhood kids has increased. I don't think the school has suddenly gotten better.

Also there is a school of thought it may be better to be a big fish in small pond.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.busine ... th-2013-10

Determined
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by Determined » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:37 pm

What grade is she entering?

metrunt
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by metrunt » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:49 pm

ThankYouJack wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:58 pm
Our district elementary school doesn't get the best grades and my oldest child who will be going there next year is advanced in that she was reading at 4, has an amazing memory and likes to learn. She's also sensitive and shy/reserved especially in a school setting. The school one district over would be a better fit (better test scores, less bullying incidents), but because of housing costs it would cost us $20-$30k / year for a similar set up. I don't think we'd want to send our kids to a religious private school and the secular private schools are about $18-$23k per year. We could afford it but we could also put that money towards some other great things including a 529.
Why does it cost an extra $20-$30K / year to move, rather than a one time cost? Is the rent $2,000 a mo more expensive? Can you do an inter-district transfer? She's going into kindergarten? I wouldn't worry about bullying or academic achievement at that age.

3 kids between K-5. We did an interzone transfer so we drive 15 minutes each way for school, rather than a 5 minute walk. It is worth it. But private school wouldn't be. There's so many better options for that money.

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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by CurlyDave » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:54 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:16 pm
Whether public or private, the social environment is as important as the academic standard. When you choose a school you are choosing your child's peers...
+1

My daughter went to a private junior high. One of her classmates was suspended for a few days because she was seen smoking a cigarette -- not on school grounds, but somewhere within sight of the school.

Meanwhile, the local public school could not prevent students from selling drugs from their lockers.

Which environment would you rather have your children grow up in?

P.S. In the public school students laugh at suspensions, it is viewed as a vacation. In a private school the parents take suspensions very seriously, they are paying good money for an education.
Last edited by CurlyDave on Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ThankYouJack
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by ThankYouJack » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:55 pm

Determined wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:37 pm
What grade is she entering?
Kindergarten. So it's not like she'll be learning rocket science but I also don't want her be bored and uninspired. And we have the means to spend more on great education. We'll likely stay put and try the current school but am interested in the feedback

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jabberwockOG
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by jabberwockOG » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:57 pm

Suggest you sell your house and move to a better neighborhood and area with better public elementary, middle and high schools. Local public school performance is almost always a direct function of the local education and income level of the families that live in the specific area.

ThankYouJack
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by ThankYouJack » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:03 pm

metrunt wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:49 pm
ThankYouJack wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:58 pm
Our district elementary school doesn't get the best grades and my oldest child who will be going there next year is advanced in that she was reading at 4, has an amazing memory and likes to learn. She's also sensitive and shy/reserved especially in a school setting. The school one district over would be a better fit (better test scores, less bullying incidents), but because of housing costs it would cost us $20-$30k / year for a similar set up. I don't think we'd want to send our kids to a religious private school and the secular private schools are about $18-$23k per year. We could afford it but we could also put that money towards some other great things including a 529.
Why does it cost an extra $20-$30K / year to move, rather than a one time cost? Is the rent $2,000 a mo more expensive? Can you do an inter-district transfer? She's going into kindergarten? I wouldn't worry about bullying or academic achievement at that age.

3 kids between K-5. We did an interzone transfer so we drive 15 minutes each way for school, rather than a 5 minute walk. It is worth it. But private school wouldn't be. There's so many better options for that money.
Real estate and taxes would be a lot more in the better school district. So it would be about $20k-$30k more per year for a similar set up with what we have now. Interzone transfers are not allowed. Our current district is growing rapidly though and getting more similar to the more expensive district.

patrick474
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by patrick474 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:05 pm

CurlyDave wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:54 pm
Sandtrap wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:16 pm
Whether public or private, the social environment is as important as the academic standard. When you choose a school you are choosing your child's peers...
+1

My daughter went to a private junior high. One of her classmates was suspended for a few days because she was seen smoking a cigarette -- not on school grounds, but somewhere within sight of the school.

Meanwhile, the local public school could not prevent students from selling drugs from their lockers.

Which environment would you rather have your children grow up in?

P.S. In the public school students laugh at suspensions, it is viewed as a vacation. In a private school the parents take suspensions very seriously, they are paying good money for an education.
Some breathtaking generalizations here. I would just note that I attended a public school with many students from very affluent families and knew others who were even more affluent and attended elite prep schools. If you believe that drug and alcohol abuse does not occur with the students who are most able to flex their privilege and financial resources, then you are kidding yourself.

ytrewq
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by ytrewq » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:18 pm

Homes in good school cost more not because teachers/courses are better, but because families in those schools are more education focused. Many children get motivated to perform higher seeing their peers excel. In most states, home prices in winter are 5% - 7% lower compared to prices in Spring/Summer. By buying a smaller and older home in winter, you may be able to reduce the cost impact from 20K - 30K to say 7K - 10K.

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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by sschullo » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:19 pm

Interesting Warren Buffett said in an Interview that no Warren kids attended a private school, but I digress.

Send your children to a public school, and the money you save can be used to hire private tutors, one or two of the following depending on what you children are interested in: music (singing or learning an instrument), soccer, martial arts, foreign language, or even dance lessons (In any middle sized city there are a million ballet and martial arts studios).

Be creative. Kids want to do things and be responsible. Case point: My nephew and his wife are wealthy and their kids went to public school. They spent a ton of money for their three girls to compete in horse riding. Purchasing the horse, hiring a riding coach, getting the very expensive uniforms and saddles, traveling to competitions around the state took a lot of time and expense. However, those girls got a lot out of the seeming nonacademic activity. They learned responsibility for caring for their horses, pose under pressure, leadership and being in front of people competing, beginning in 2nd or third grade, all the way to their early 20s. One of my grand nieces is now a surgeon and the other a middle school teacher. The middle school teacher said that she was so used to performing in front of people that when she went to college one of her professors said that he never saw a student who was so comfortable and competent in front of her peers as she was, and she credits her horse training and competing. And their parents said "IT WAS WORTH EVERY PENNY!"

Don't waste your money on private elementary schools, 9 x 8 still equals 72 whether it's a public elementary school or an expensive private elementary school. Spend your money on experiences such as what my nephew and his wife did with their daughters. It was amazing.

If your child is academically ready for a lot of stress and can compete with bright students, then a private middle or senior high school that has a specialty such as technology or the arts would be the place to spend your money, but not elementary.
Public School K-12 Educators: "Ask NOT what your annuity sales person can do for you, ask what you can do to be a Do-It-Yourselfer (DIY)."

Determined
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by Determined » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:44 pm

ThankYouJack wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:55 pm
Determined wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:37 pm
What grade is she entering?
Kindergarten. So it's not like she'll be learning rocket science but I also don't want her be bored and uninspired. And we have the means to spend more on great education. We'll likely stay put and try the current school but am interested in the feedback
I didn't want to assume because I teach in my district's primary school, and elementary starts in grade three.
You said she is shy in a school setting. That may or may not be true once she enters kindergarten.

As far as being bored, you daughter will be the exception as an early reader, but not the first or the last.

School rankings are useful to a point. There are outstanding schools and truly struggling schools. In between is everyone else, and scores don't tell the whole story. There are all kinds of systems that rate schools, and most of them really don't mean much except to make headlines.

It sounds like you prefer to stay put, and I would predict that for now, you daighter will do great.

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celia
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by celia » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:06 pm

Have you even asked the other district if she could attend there? What are the reasons that they let out-of-district students attend?

Where I live, the allowed reasons are something like:
Parent works inside that district and student and parent thus commute
The after-school babysitter who will pick her up lives in that district
The student was bullied in their home school/district
The other district has a program that the student needs (special needs, magnet program)
Sibling attends a school in other district
(3 or 4 more I can't think of)

HIinvestor
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by HIinvestor » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:13 pm

Our kids attended out of district public schools (with mom driving) for grades K-8. It worked fairly well. They did go to a private HS, which also worked well and was cheaper than private K-12.

I’d check what needs to happen for your D to go to school in the next zone or at least have her try starting in your public school. Most kids are pretty resilient and as you say, your area is improving and becoming more like the desired school.

College is pretty expensive and saving for that will help your child have more options when it’s time to choose post HS education.

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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by CurlyDave » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:07 am

patrick474 wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:05 pm
...If you believe that drug and alcohol abuse does not occur with the students who are most able to flex their privilege and financial resources, then you are kidding yourself...
I never said that, and don't believe it.

What i do believe is that private schools have many fewer discipline problems, can pay much more individual attention to each student, and have far better tools to handle the problems that do come up.

lightheir
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by lightheir » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:46 am

CurlyDave wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:07 am
patrick474 wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:05 pm
...If you believe that drug and alcohol abuse does not occur with the students who are most able to flex their privilege and financial resources, then you are kidding yourself...
I never said that, and don't believe it.

What i do believe is that private schools have many fewer discipline problems, can pay much more individual attention to each student, and have far better tools to handle the problems that do come up.
Amazingly in my hcol area it's is the opposite of what you state. The public schools have far better outcomes, both by test outcomes AND college placement compared the the $$$$$ private schools. I will say this area is high immigrant proportion and has a very motivated parent base. I can identify plenty of other neighborhoods where the cash strapped public school is terrible and the private school is way better.

DarthSage
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by DarthSage » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:54 am

Disclaimer: 4 kids, all went/go to public school.

I find that public school is what you make it. My DD15 is going into her sophomore year. She sees plenty at the HS, but she's in the IB program, in orchestra, and has a good-sized circle of geeky friends. In short, she's able to navigate away from the troublemakers.

In the lower grades, teachers can offer differentiated curriculum (i.e., reading a book about reptiles, but the bright child might have a 4th grade level book while in first grade). Some schools have pull-outs for the advanced kids, some have actual gifted programs that kids test into--I have found these things in public schools.

In addition, I recommend enrichment, enrichment, enrichment. This can be private lessons (art, music, dance, whatever suits your child), it can be family activities (reading the newspaper, visiting museums, going to the zoo), you can find summer enrichment camps in all stripes--computer camps, surfing camps, science camps. These would be half-or full-day camps, depending on the age of the child.

Our oldest was reading at 4, but we didn't want to just push her to read harder books--she had the vocabulary and comprehension, but the content wasn't necessarily appropriate (this becomes an issue with early readers). So, we put her in German lessons (she had a German grandmother who wanted to take her to Germany). Later, she switched to Spanish. She's almost 23, has had 12 years of Spanish, and spent a semester in Ecuador as a college student. She double majored, elementary and bilingual education, and now teaches English to immigrant children. I realize this is not a career filled with fame and fortune, but she is amazing at what she does. So I say again--enrich, enrich, enrich--you have no idea the path you might put your child on.

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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:04 am

patrick474 wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:05 pm
CurlyDave wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:54 pm
Sandtrap wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:16 pm
Whether public or private, the social environment is as important as the academic standard. When you choose a school you are choosing your child's peers...
+1

My daughter went to a private junior high. One of her classmates was suspended for a few days because she was seen smoking a cigarette -- not on school grounds, but somewhere within sight of the school.

Meanwhile, the local public school could not prevent students from selling drugs from their lockers.

Which environment would you rather have your children grow up in?

P.S. In the public school students laugh at suspensions, it is viewed as a vacation. In a private school the parents take suspensions very seriously, they are paying good money for an education.
Some breathtaking generalizations here. I would just note that I attended a public school with many students from very affluent families and knew others who were even more affluent and attended elite prep schools. If you believe that drug and alcohol abuse does not occur with the students who are most able to flex their privilege and financial resources, then you are kidding yourself.
+1. Dysfunctional kids are found across the economic spectrum, access to money at earlier ages typically is found at the higher end.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

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jabberwockOG
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by jabberwockOG » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:06 am

DarthSage wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:54 am
Disclaimer: 4 kids, all went/go to public school.

I find that public school is what you make it. My DD15 is going into her sophomore year. She sees plenty at the HS, but she's in the IB program, in orchestra, and has a good-sized circle of geeky friends. In short, she's able to navigate away from the troublemakers.

In the lower grades, teachers can offer differentiated curriculum (i.e., reading a book about reptiles, but the bright child might have a 4th grade level book while in first grade). Some schools have pull-outs for the advanced kids, some have actual gifted programs that kids test into--I have found these things in public schools.

In addition, I recommend enrichment, enrichment, enrichment. This can be private lessons (art, music, dance, whatever suits your child), it can be family activities (reading the newspaper, visiting museums, going to the zoo), you can find summer enrichment camps in all stripes--computer camps, surfing camps, science camps. These would be half-or full-day camps, depending on the age of the child.

Our oldest was reading at 4, but we didn't want to just push her to read harder books--she had the vocabulary and comprehension, but the content wasn't necessarily appropriate (this becomes an issue with early readers). So, we put her in German lessons (she had a German grandmother who wanted to take her to Germany). Later, she switched to Spanish. She's almost 23, has had 12 years of Spanish, and spent a semester in Ecuador as a college student. She double majored, elementary and bilingual education, and now teaches English to immigrant children. I realize this is not a career filled with fame and fortune, but she is amazing at what she does. So I say again--enrich, enrich, enrich--you have no idea the path you might put your child on.
Great post and very good advice.

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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by retired recently » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:45 am

Our son went to a charter middle school, where entrance was based on scoring highly on an IQ test. He loved it there. I would not say the curriculum was very challenging and the highly ranked middle school is ranked highly almost exclusively due to the fact they have smart kids. The cohort of kids was great though.

High school (local public) has been different for sure, not bad really, just very different. The level of instruction has been really poor and most of the kids are good kids, they are just not interested in much outside of sports. Luckily son is a good soccer/tennis player so he fit in well but I do not think he learned anything last year and I am not exaggerating.

We have always supplemented his education and it has been both good and bad. The bad part is this is one reason he is not learning anything and is bored and sees assignments as busy work. The kids at his high school assume he is a genius but son knows he is not at the level of kids 50 miles away. I will say the best bang for the buck for us was private lessons, whether it be in sports or academics.

We have kids from the local high school that have been accepted into very good colleges and it will be very interesting to see how they do. These kids are going to walk into Carnegie Mellon, for instance, hoping to major in computer science or math and be shocked at how many of their fellow students are already miles ahead of them.

If I knew then what I know now about the schools in our state, we would have moved to a different district. I think the cohort is the most important thing for our son. When he is in a group of intellectually advanced kids he is switched on and engaged.

Ultimately, parenting is very hard and many will tell you what you need to do or what you have done wrong and perhaps they are right but there is not one solution given each child is very different. Know your child and do the best you can.

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lthenderson
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by lthenderson » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:21 am

I attended public school but both my children are going to a private elementary school. I am also on that schools school board. My observations are this:

Private school tends to attract parents who want the best for their children and they tend to be more involved with their child's education as a result. Not always but most of the time. I have long believed that the more a parent is involved with their child's learning, in a private or public situation, the better their child will be. In the school that I am on the board, I can think of a number of children their whose parents virtually ignore them due to careers, work loads, or other reasons and are rarely seen at the school. These children are almost always at the bottom of their class compared to other children whose parents help them with their homework in the evenings and remain involved with the school.

Our private school is small so the students tend to get very personalized teaching. For students with involved parents, this tends to accelerate their learning considerably. My oldest "graduated" from her private elementary school and is now in the public system. She is top in her class and though in middle school scores at a freshman in college level. Those students I mentioned above whose parents aren't involved in their education, tend to score average among their peers in middle school but I would bet that had they gone to a public elementary school and got lost in the shuffle, they would have been scoring near the bottom instead of the middle.

I guess in summary, I would say how involved you are in your child's education is a lot more important to their future than which school you pick. But the school you pick can play a role too.

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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by ks289 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:41 am

lthenderson wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:21 am
I attended public school but both my children are going to a private elementary school. I am also on that schools school board. My observations are this:

Private school tends to attract parents who want the best for their children and they tend to be more involved with their child's education as a result. Not always but most of the time. I have long believed that the more a parent is involved with their child's learning, in a private or public situation, the better their child will be. In the school that I am on the board, I can think of a number of children their whose parents virtually ignore them due to careers, work loads, or other reasons and are rarely seen at the school. These children are almost always at the bottom of their class compared to other children whose parents help them with their homework in the evenings and remain involved with the school.

Our private school is small so the students tend to get very personalized teaching. For students with involved parents, this tends to accelerate their learning considerably. My oldest "graduated" from her private elementary school and is now in the public system. She is top in her class and though in middle school scores at a freshman in college level. Those students I mentioned above whose parents aren't involved in their education, tend to score average among their peers in middle school but I would bet that had they gone to a public elementary school and got lost in the shuffle, they would have been scoring near the bottom instead of the middle.

I guess in summary, I would say how involved you are in your child's education is a lot more important to their future than which school you pick. But the school you pick can play a role too.
I share your opinion and experience.

Trying to measure the impact of the numerous variables (parental education/income/involvement, public v private school, student characteristics) on a student's performance is difficult and not easily generalizable. Both of my children attended a highly regarded public elementary school (Blue ribbon winner) for 5+ years, but they were bored with the material. Their experiences at a small, local private school with highly motivated peers and parents have exceeded our expectations. It is possible that at the high school level, there would be sufficient differentiation to accommodate students at different levels, but this is not always the case particularly in mathematics.

IMO, for most it is worth at least trying the public school option (I attended public school K-12), because it is cheaper and may be a terrific fit for most kids, especially in earlier grades. However, if their needs are not being optimally met at school, it is difficult for parents to make up for that during non-school hours especially when trying to participate in activities and sports.

ThankYouJack
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by ThankYouJack » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:55 am

Thanks all for the feedback. I feel better about staying put and that makes sense about enrichment - which we currently do a fair amount of and will continue to do.

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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by SimonJester » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:20 am

To be honest, the effort you put in with your kids schooling / education at home will go a lot further then any school choice.

If moving to the more expensive school district causes financial strain then I would say they will be worse off.
You might stay in your current school district, get involved in your children's school and use that money for extracurricular activities and vacations.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

ThankYouJack
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by ThankYouJack » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:27 am

celia wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:06 pm
Have you even asked the other district if she could attend there? What are the reasons that they let out-of-district students attend?

Where I live, the allowed reasons are something like:
Parent works inside that district and student and parent thus commute
The after-school babysitter who will pick her up lives in that district
The student was bullied in their home school/district
The other district has a program that the student needs (special needs, magnet program)
Sibling attends a school in other district
(3 or 4 more I can't think of)
I've read the Residency (Domicile) Policy. I imagine over-crowding and cost are big reasons they won't let out of district students attend.

retired recently
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by retired recently » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:25 am

SimonJester wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:20 am
To be honest, the effort you put in with your kids schooling / education at home will go a lot further then any school choice.
I think this is very true up through 7th-9th grade, depending on the kid. At some stage during high school, the cohort becomes very important.

Isabelle77
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by Isabelle77 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:35 am

The public/private debate is never a general one although people try to make it that way. You have to look at your child, your finances, and the school options available. No one on this board will be able to do those things for you.

BTW, this is one of those parenting choices where nearly everyone thinks they made the right decision.

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celia
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by celia » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:13 pm

ThankYouJack wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:58 pm
She's also sensitive and shy/reserved especially in a school setting.
If this is more so than it is for other kids, it could indicate something she needs to work on. You can encourage her to invite someone over to play with her, with your advance permission, of course. Then stretch it to 2 or 3 other visitors at a time. (Be prepared for their parents to stay too, until they know you.) Also think about what you model. Do you talk to strangers in her presence? Do you invite people into your house?

As far as health and safety, she needs to know when to ask for help and from whom. Sometimes we tell our kids not to talk to strangers and emphasize it too much which could be detrimental, should an emergency arise. If she sees another kid her age or younger fall or get hurt at the playground, she should know to ask if they need help getting up and likewise accept help from others if she falls.

Her classmates will only be strangers for a day. EVERYONE in her kindergarten class will be new and very few will know each other. Let her know this is normal but won't last for very long.

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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by latesaver » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:24 pm

[/quote]

+1

My daughter went to a private junior high. One of her classmates was suspended for a few days because she was seen smoking a cigarette -- not on school grounds, but somewhere within sight of the school.

Meanwhile, the local public school could not prevent students from selling drugs from their lockers.

Which environment would you rather have your children grow up in?

P.S. In the public school students laugh at suspensions, it is viewed as a vacation. In a private school the parents take suspensions very seriously, they are paying good money for an education.
[/quote]

Some breathtaking generalizations here. I would just note that I attended a public school with many students from very affluent families and knew others who were even more affluent and attended elite prep schools. If you believe that drug and alcohol abuse does not occur with the students who are most able to flex their privilege and financial resources, then you are kidding yourself.
[/quote]
+100

i went to a private school but i will admit we had our own problems.

Down here in miami we have a few private schools that cost $30-40k+ (even for elementary) and i am hearing that these schools are randomly drug testing because it's gotten so bad with rich kids bringing their parents meds (or worse) to school with them.

new2bogle
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by new2bogle » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:52 pm

latesaver wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:24 pm


+1

My daughter went to a private junior high. One of her classmates was suspended for a few days because she was seen smoking a cigarette -- not on school grounds, but somewhere within sight of the school.

Meanwhile, the local public school could not prevent students from selling drugs from their lockers.

Which environment would you rather have your children grow up in?

P.S. In the public school students laugh at suspensions, it is viewed as a vacation. In a private school the parents take suspensions very seriously, they are paying good money for an education.


Some breathtaking generalizations here. I would just note that I attended a public school with many students from very affluent families and knew others who were even more affluent and attended elite prep schools. If you believe that drug and alcohol abuse does not occur with the students who are most able to flex their privilege and financial resources, then you are kidding yourself.

+100

i went to a private school but i will admit we had our own problems.

Down here in miami we have a few private schools that cost $30-40k+ (even for elementary) and i am hearing that these schools are randomly drug testing because it's gotten so bad with rich kids bringing their parents meds (or worse) to school with them.
+1

It's not the school, I think, but the extremes of family finances, that bring in the problems. In my city, the most highly affluent high school (stock broker level income) has one of the most drug problems, on par with the high school in the "other part of town", which is pretty astonishing. But guess where the cops are called to more often?

ThankYouJack
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by ThankYouJack » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:58 pm

celia wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:13 pm
ThankYouJack wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:58 pm
She's also sensitive and shy/reserved especially in a school setting.
If this is more so than it is for other kids, it could indicate something she needs to work on. You can encourage her to invite someone over to play with her, with your advance permission, of course. Then stretch it to 2 or 3 other visitors at a time. (Be prepared for their parents to stay too, until they know you.) Also think about what you model. Do you talk to strangers in her presence? Do you invite people into your house?
Yes and Yes. Myself and my spouse are very social and we're always having people over and often setting up playdates.

Loik098
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by Loik098 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:19 pm

ThankYouJack wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:58 pm
Our district elementary school doesn't get the best grades and my oldest child who will be going there next year is advanced in that she was reading at 4, has an amazing memory and likes to learn.
FWIW, test results from tests such as the WPPSI, Cognitive Abilities Test, or the Otis-Lennon School Ability test which can theoretically demonstrate an "advanced" state at kindergarten-age have not been proven to be reliable in the long-run. In those school districts which have attempted testing at such an early age, more than half of the students who test "advanced" at age 5 end up not remaining that way a few years later, and more than half that don't test as "advanced" at age 5, really are by the time they're in middle school.

It's very difficult to determine just where your child is until, at the very least, the 3rd grade. IQ measurements just aren't accurate at all at such an early age, either. The brain is still in its early phases of construction, and some kids don't even start progressing until after age 5. If you'd like more reading, the book, "NutureShock" by Bronson has a very good (and relatively recent) examination of this subject, including a discussion of what's going on inside the brain, physically, at these ages.

All this to say, I wish for parents of very young children to consider the research before making proclamations of having an "advanced" child (only because so many parents, at least around us, make them), and I would certainly NOT move considerable financial resources based primarily on such a hunch until the child is a little older. Some kids are further along than others, but at this age, there is no guarantee they will remain that way.

harrychan
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by harrychan » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:19 am

We were on the same boat when our oldest child went to preschool at a private institute as our district had limited transitional K seats (late birthday). We went to private for K and came back to public for 1st grade. After about 2 weeks, it was clear he would be bored out of his mind and not stimulated at all. The teachers were more concerned over kids who has never been in a formal school environment and learning their ABC's. My son on the other hand were reading ESPN articles and memorizing batting avg of his favorite players. For 2nd grade onward, we found a reasonably priced private school that costs just a hair over after school care. He's now blossoming and being challenged in all areas.

Public school isn't free.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.

audioaxes
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by audioaxes » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:49 am

have you looked into charter schools? I constantly see free charter schools that out perform the local public schools.
Also I dont know if they still have it but when I was a kid there was also a GATE program atleast in California that was for advanced kids. My school didnt have its own GATE program back in the day so I was bused to a different school 2 times a week for special classes.

Isabelle77
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by Isabelle77 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:41 pm

Loik098 wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:19 pm
ThankYouJack wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:58 pm
Our district elementary school doesn't get the best grades and my oldest child who will be going there next year is advanced in that she was reading at 4, has an amazing memory and likes to learn.
FWIW, test results from tests such as the WPPSI, Cognitive Abilities Test, or the Otis-Lennon School Ability test which can theoretically demonstrate an "advanced" state at kindergarten-age have not been proven to be reliable in the long-run. In those school districts which have attempted testing at such an early age, more than half of the students who test "advanced" at age 5 end up not remaining that way a few years later, and more than half that don't test as "advanced" at age 5, really are by the time they're in middle school.

It's very difficult to determine just where your child is until, at the very least, the 3rd grade. IQ measurements just aren't accurate at all at such an early age, either. The brain is still in its early phases of construction, and some kids don't even start progressing until after age 5. If you'd like more reading, the book, "NutureShock" by Bronson has a very good (and relatively recent) examination of this subject, including a discussion of what's going on inside the brain, physically, at these ages.

All this to say, I wish for parents of very young children to consider the research before making proclamations of having an "advanced" child (only because so many parents, at least around us, make them), and I would certainly NOT move considerable financial resources based primarily on such a hunch until the child is a little older. Some kids are further along than others, but at this age, there is no guarantee they will remain that way.
This is SO true. I have a teenager who was an early reader who now is a very awesome average student. My later reader, now 12, (who wasn't considered "ready" for preschool :wink: ) is "highly gifted" and working years ahead of his grade level. Be careful assuming too much about a bright preschooler, especially a girl.

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JMacDonald
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by JMacDonald » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:55 pm

I haven't read the replies; but as a retired elementary teacher, your local school is probably better then whatever scores you are looking at. Save your money on private schools and hire your kids a tutor if there is a need. I went to a parochial school, and I know it was not a great education. So private is not necessarily better.
Best Wishes, | Joe

ThankYouJack
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Re: How much to invest in elementary education?

Post by ThankYouJack » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:57 pm

audioaxes wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:49 am
have you looked into charter schools? I constantly see free charter schools that out perform the local public schools.
Also I dont know if they still have it but when I was a kid there was also a GATE program atleast in California that was for advanced kids. My school didnt have its own GATE program back in the day so I was bused to a different school 2 times a week for special classes.
Yes, but they're lottery based. We'll enter each year but they are very tough to get into

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