To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

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FoolStreet
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by FoolStreet » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:34 pm

Travelgeek, at one time we talked about Supercharge options between Bend & Boise. It looks like Tesla just updated its map of "coming soon" superchargers. I was impressed to see one coming to Burns, Madras and Ontario. And in the general vicinity, there is one coming to Mountain Home, ID and Newell, CA. Very impressive.

Hopefully in time for your Model Y to replace your Subie ;-)


https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&search ... percharger

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BrandonBogle
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by BrandonBogle » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:07 pm

roflwaffle wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:58 am
For me, the touchscreen isn't an issue. Almost all the controls I normally access when driving are on the stalks and scroll wheels/buttons. The only exception is the wipers if I want to override the auto setting. In that case I need to touch the screen once. I guess if I routinely adjusted the mirrors/steering wheel while driving it would be a pain, but that's also distracting on the cars I have with buttons.
If you want to leave Automatic Wipers engaged but manually add a single wipe, you can do that from the stalk. You only need the screen to turn off Automatic Wipers or engage a continuous manual wipe.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by BrandonBogle » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:09 pm

Longdog wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:15 pm
It is not a sound financial decision to spend a lot of money on a car. Knowing that, I ordered the AWD, not because its 0-60 time is 0.6s seconds less than the RWD equivalent, but because I expect better handling in the snow. Looking forward to taking delivery in a few months. Worst financial decision of my life, so it better be fun! (I did drive a RWD version and indeed it was a blast.)
I will say that my RWD Model S performs better than my 4WD 4Runner. That said, the amount of snow I get lets me keep all seasons vs. getting winter tires. So performance in areas that get "real snow" :) may vary. That said, many in Norway and Colorado have RWD Model Ses without issue with the proper tires. All things being equal, AWD will likely give you a better drive in the snow though.

vg55
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by vg55 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:59 pm

I also reserved a model 3 with a 1k deposit. After waiting at least a year for delivery, I decided that the price had become too rich for me. So I cancelled my reservation and received a return of my deposit.

I am now thinking that a chevy volt would work best for my wife and I. We seem to travel most in the less than 50 miles/day except when we take very long trips to NC or VT. I really dont want to wait to recharge, so the Volt would allow us to go directly to the gas engine.

Plan now is as follows: wait until 2019 or 2020 to buy a used Chevy Volt circa 2016. My 2004 Honda Accord has 210,000 miles and should get me to 2019 or beyond.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by BrandonBogle » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:45 pm

vg55 wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:59 pm
I also reserved a model 3 with a 1k deposit. After waiting at least a year for delivery, I decided that the price had become too rich for me. So I cancelled my reservation and received a return of my deposit.

I am now thinking that a chevy volt would work best for my wife and I. We seem to travel most in the less than 50 miles/day except when we take very long trips to NC or VT. I really dont want to wait to recharge, so the Volt would allow us to go directly to the gas engine.

Plan now is as follows: wait until 2019 or 2020 to buy a used Chevy Volt circa 2016. My 2004 Honda Accord has 210,000 miles and should get me to 2019 or beyond.
I haven't had the chance to drive a Volt Gen 2 (2016 or later), but have ridden in one and driven a Gen 1. They are good cars. While I personally was not a fan of the limited range, it is an all around well done vehicle. Given the extra range of the Gen 2, I think you would be a happy camper. Just beware - once you start driving on electric, you may feel the itch that you dislike the few times you have to run on gas (the Volt will start the motor if it gets too cold and occasionally to circulate oil and such). I know a couple Volt owners that have recently switched to Model 3s. One of them was a dual EV household, kept their Leaf and moved from the Volt to a Model 3. Now they are considering changing the Leaf to a Model 3 next year. They, like you, don't usually drive more than 50 miles/day except from trips to NJ and the occasional unexpected emergency detour (they have two kids, so lots of running around some days).

Especially as more long-range, more "affordable" battery electrics come on the market, depreciation on low range vehicles will likely tick up (or at least hold steady with traditional ICE vehicles). You should be able to get a great deal on the used market for a Volt, or dare I say even potentially a Bolt!

Edited to say "2016 or later" instead of "2015 or later" thanks to madbrain below
Last edited by BrandonBogle on Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TravelGeek
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by TravelGeek » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:04 am

FoolStreet wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:34 pm
Travelgeek, at one time we talked about Supercharge options between Bend & Boise. It looks like Tesla just updated its map of "coming soon" superchargers. I was impressed to see one coming to Burns, Madras and Ontario. And in the general vicinity, there is one coming to Mountain Home, ID and Newell, CA. Very impressive.

Hopefully in time for your Model Y to replace your Subie ;-)


https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&search ... percharger
Thank you, that is great news!

madbrain
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by madbrain » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:16 am

BrandonBogle wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:45 pm
vg55 wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:59 pm
I also reserved a model 3 with a 1k deposit. After waiting at least a year for delivery, I decided that the price had become too rich for me. So I cancelled my reservation and received a return of my deposit.

I am now thinking that a chevy volt would work best for my wife and I. We seem to travel most in the less than 50 miles/day except when we take very long trips to NC or VT. I really dont want to wait to recharge, so the Volt would allow us to go directly to the gas engine.

Plan now is as follows: wait until 2019 or 2020 to buy a used Chevy Volt circa 2016. My 2004 Honda Accord has 210,000 miles and should get me to 2019 or beyond.
I haven't had the chance to drive a Volt Gen 2 (2015 or later), but have ridden in one and driven a Gen 1. They are good cars. While I personally was not a fan of the limited range, it is an all around well done vehicle. Given the extra range of the Gen 2, I think you would be a happy camper. Just beware - once you start driving on electric, you may feel the itch that you dislike the few times you have to run on gas (the Volt will start the motor if it gets too cold and occasionally to circulate oil and such). I know a couple Volt owners that have recently switched to Model 3s. One of them was a dual EV household, kept their Leaf and moved from the Volt to a Model 3. Now they are considering changing the Leaf to a Model 3 next year. They, like you, don't usually drive more than 50 miles/day except from trips to NJ and the occasional unexpected emergency detour (they have two kids, so lots of running around some days).

Especially as more long-range, more "affordable" battery electrics come on the market, depreciation on low range vehicles will likely tick up (or at least hold steady with traditional ICE vehicles). You should be able to get a great deal on the used market for a Volt, or dare I say even potentially a Bolt!
Actually the 2015 Volt is still Gen1. I own one. It is the last model year for the Gen1. I bought it right when the 2016 Volt Gen2 was being released, and got significant discount as a result. I have never drive a gen 2 and can't say how much better it might be. But you can never have too much EV range.

The gas engine on the Volt is really small. When battery is depleted, acceleration on freeway is not as good. Also, when climbing the hill on the way to my home, it struggles and there is a smell of burned rubber in my garage almost every single time in the winter when combined with the heater use. Others have reported the same under certain conditions, so I don't think it's just my particular unit. This is only a 0.6 mile stretch but at 15% incline. That particular stretch consumes from 0.6 to 1 kWh in all EVs I have driven (Leaf, Volt, Bolt). Same stretch never caused any issue with my 2007 Prius hybrid, which has a bigger gas engine than the Volt. Pretty sure somewhere, somebody is cheating on emissions tests again as it couldn't possibly be passing emissions tests during that stretch. It doesn't put any smoke or anything but just smells horrible and have to wait a few minutes to dissipate in garage. Or this kind of stressful tests isn't part of emissions tests, but should be. Not sure how you would simulate it in a lab. Put the car on incline and on a treadmill, inside of a huge freezer :) ? IMO, the computer emission tests are mostly bogus.
I have never actually done a smog check in my life as my first car was a 2001 Prius and all others since have been exempted from smog checks (several of them being zero emissions - Leaf and Bolt).

IMO, the Volt, even Gen1, is still better than the Bolt for road trips. This is because of limited availability of CCS chargers, and them not charging the Bolt that fast. Our Bolt has the DCFC CCS option but we have never tried it yet.
Gen2 Volt is probably even better than Gen1.

However, in terms of fuel efficiency and comfort, a regular Prius (non plug-in) beats the Volt. The way I drive, which is to say, over the speed limit, and not in flat terrain, always with AC or heat, I only get about 29-33MPG on gasoline. This compared with 40-45 MPG in the Prius, based on 12 years of driving a 2001, 2007 and 2011 Prius in 2 different home locations.

My Gen1 Volt will go anywhere from 30 to 45 miles on battery depending on driving conditions (speed, terrain, use of AC). Closer to 35 miles on average than 40. Terrain has a lot to do with it. The 2007 Prius was a 5-seater hatchback with much more space than the Volt. So it was both more fuel efficient and comfortable. The Volt is clearly a compromise. I wish they would come out with a Volt Gen 3 that had a form factor closer to the regular Prius. The Prius Prime and older plug-in-prius are a fail, too, as they made it a 4 seater instead of 5 seater, unlike every other Prius ever made. They also have ridiculously small batteries. The Toyota PHEV are much worse compromise than the Volt, IMO.

I think Ford came closest with the C-Max Energi, but EV battery was too small in that car. And electric motor is not good enough, maxing at 75 mph in EV mode. My Volt Gen1 (and same for Gen2) goes to 100mph. I seldom go over 90 but 75-80 is not so uncommon when alone on the freeway at night.

Bolt is limited to 90 mph also, which looks slow on paper but is actually plenty good enough given the acceleration that car has if you actually drive it.

IMO, we have yet to see the ideal PHEV. In the meantime, Volt Gen2 is the best on the market. Suitable for roadtrips unless you need to seat 5.

My 2007 Prius was old a long time ago since we couldn't justify 3 cars - money immobilized in cars, depreciation, but also ongoing costs of registration, now much higher in California than they used to be. Over $500 for my Bolt at this year's renewal, and $350 for my 3-year old Volt.
Insurance costs are also crazy high mostly due to zip code and husband having 2 points on license ... Cost of insurance & registration is a significant portion of overall driving costs for us, about 25% and that's with two car loans and both cars financed 0% down for 7 years at <2% APR.
2011 Prius was fixed and sold one year ago after a major accident and replaced with Bolt.

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matjen
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by matjen » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:23 am

Glad my $300 short position on TSLA is imaginary. Tesla on fire this week. :shock:
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.

DanMahowny
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by DanMahowny » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:20 pm

Yep. I shorted at $365. Considering another 100 share short.

No profits, crappy balance sheet, CEO is a snake oil salesman.

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matjen
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by matjen » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:47 pm

DanMahowny wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:20 pm
Yep. I shorted at $365. Considering another 100 share short.

No profits, crappy balance sheet, CEO is a snake oil salesman.
Looks like Musk is pulling out all the stops to show some sort of profit by Q3. Agree with you. Won’t matter in the long run. A growth company doesn’t lay off 9% of its work force during a crucial ramp up. Service, warranty coverage and repair will suffer.

Prospective Model 3 owners take note.
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.

ERISA Stone
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by ERISA Stone » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:21 pm

DanMahowny wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:20 pm
Yep. I shorted at $365. Considering another 100 share short.

No profits, crappy balance sheet, CEO is a snake oil salesman.
Oof, good luck with that. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesl ... ce=twitter

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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:34 pm

Please stay on-topic, which is to take delivery (or not) of a Tesla 3.

Update: An off-topic post (before this post) and a response (after this post) were removed.
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HomerJ
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by HomerJ » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:34 pm

FoolStreet wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:34 pm
Travelgeek, at one time we talked about Supercharge options between Bend & Boise. It looks like Tesla just updated its map of "coming soon" superchargers. I was impressed to see one coming to Burns, Madras and Ontario. And in the general vicinity, there is one coming to Mountain Home, ID and Newell, CA. Very impressive.

Hopefully in time for your Model Y to replace your Subie ;-)


https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&search ... percharger
It's great that they are adding superchargers, but let's not call one 8-car supercharger per town "very impressive". How about just "nice"
The J stands for Jay

TravelGeek
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by TravelGeek » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:04 pm

HomerJ wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:34 pm
It's great that they are adding superchargers, but let's not call one 8-car supercharger per town "very impressive". How about just "nice"
I don't own a Tesla, but I have to disagree. They now have over 10,000 chargers at 1261 stations. To me that IS impressive. Which other charging system has that coverage?

https://electrek.co/2018/06/09/tesla-10 ... rchargers/

Remember, there aren't that many Teslas around. No point putting 50 chargers into Burns, OR, when they currently have five or six vehicles come through each day (complete guess). And you don't need a supercharger every five miles when you go on a roadtrip. They just need to be spaced out such that you can cover the distances between them. Filling in gaps like Burns, OR, is what they need to do. SCs aren't meant to be for your local driving - I have a fully charged EV every morning in my garage. The primary goal of SCs is to enable roadtrips beyond the range of the vehicle and give apartment dwellers without garage a charging option. (I am certain there aren't many Tesla customers in Burns, OR, though)

kchico
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by kchico » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:19 am

Tesla is killing it lately. They are about to officially announced the Gigafactory in China and that they are making 5k Model 3's a week. The layoffs are certainly bullish and 35k version of the model is coming in 5 months. Great time to be a Tesla shareholder. :moneybag

wrongfunds
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by wrongfunds » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:37 am

The layoffs are certainly bullish
Have bought in to the kool-aid that layoffs are absolutely great as long as it is not YOUR employer who is doing it to YOU?

kchico
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by kchico » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:02 pm

wrongfunds wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:37 am
The layoffs are certainly bullish
Have bought in to the kool-aid that layoffs are absolutely great as long as it is not YOUR employer who is doing it to YOU?
What kool-aid? That's the normal way of operation of tech company. Staff up when there is a new project and trim down the work force when they are done. All the employees got good severance packages and stock options. Even employees that where underperforming. Tesla hired 8k people this year and let go of half of them.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.busin ... in-2018-6

FoolStreet
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by FoolStreet » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:55 pm

HomerJ wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:34 pm
FoolStreet wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:34 pm
Travelgeek, at one time we talked about Supercharge options between Bend & Boise. It looks like Tesla just updated its map of "coming soon" superchargers. I was impressed to see one coming to Burns, Madras and Ontario. And in the general vicinity, there is one coming to Mountain Home, ID and Newell, CA. Very impressive.

Hopefully in time for your Model Y to replace your Subie ;-)


https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&search ... percharger
It's great that they are adding superchargers, but let's not call one 8-car supercharger per town "very impressive". How about just "nice"
HomerJ, so when do you get yours? Ha ha. Seriously, as far as having a national charging network, Tesla has it. So I can check that box. I am leaning toward getting one....

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