Rowing machine motivation

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dm200
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by dm200 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:37 pm

eagleeyes wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:25 pm
So I bought a concept 2 rowing machine. It’s awesome. But I can’t seem to last longer than 5 minutes on it. I have to struggle to get to a 1000 meters in 5 minutes...
Anybody have some tips? Pretty sure my technique is decent. Watched a bunch of YouTube vids. Or maybe it’s my conditioning.
Find an online video showing the proper "technique:

Set the resistance down to the lowest level - to start

Use the "calories" as the unit of measure.

Start with 5 minutes - and increase the minutes once a week - do the rowing 4-6 days a week - do something else the other days.

If the resistance seem too low - increase by one - BUT do not go about 4 or 5.

take tie "long term" approach.

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Alexa9
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by Alexa9 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:57 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:33 pm
Great that you stand by your statement, it doesn't make it less contraindicated based upon the breadth of current evidence-based research. This is exactly how bad lifestyle habits (what really matters in regards to achieving short-term goals, and improving health outcomes and long-term health overall) are formed.
Prove it. Show me a peer reviewed longitudinal study that shows negative/positive reinforcement is bad. I don't buy your shtick for a second.

imoldfella
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by imoldfella » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:09 pm

Join a gym/box where they use rowers. I go to a crossfit where we regularly work on rowers and in addition to the training (one coach was a Division I rower in college) the social atmosphere helps immensely with the motivation/discipline to continue and get better. The owner of our affiliate once remarked to me "working out sucks, but it sucks less when we do it together".

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dm200
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by dm200 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:26 pm

I use the calorie numbers to track progress. I cannot rely just on how tired or fatigued I feel.

stoptothink
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by stoptothink » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:09 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:57 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:33 pm
Great that you stand by your statement, it doesn't make it less contraindicated based upon the breadth of current evidence-based research. This is exactly how bad lifestyle habits (what really matters in regards to achieving short-term goals, and improving health outcomes and long-term health overall) are formed.
Prove it. Show me a peer reviewed longitudinal study that shows negative/positive reinforcement is bad. I don't buy your shtick for a second.
People fall into many categories in regards to responding to rewards, nonetheless, here is some research explaining the mechanisms of action https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3703148/... You are simply creating dysregulation in the "rewards" systems (nucleus accumbens) of your brain...You are suggesting to someone who has a difficult time rowing for a few minutes to entice increased exercise with a reward which would take 20+ minutes of intense exercise to acutely burn-off, not to mention foster an unhealthy relationship with food in general.

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Alexa9
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by Alexa9 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:56 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:09 pm
People fall into many categories in regards to responding to rewards, nonetheless, here is some research explaining the mechanisms of action https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3703148/... You are simply creating dysregulation in the "rewards" systems (nucleus accumbens) of your brain...You are suggesting to someone who has a difficult time rowing for a few minutes to entice increased exercise with a reward which would take 20+ minutes of intense exercise to acutely burn-off, not to mention foster an unhealthy relationship with food in general.
Ummmmm no. You're making a lot of assumptions about what I said and the OP. I can tell it's not worth debating. Thank you for sharing your expertise though.

dsb012
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by dsb012 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:22 am

I think there's been some good suggestions here from some serious erg'ers. I think the best place to head over to is the Concept2 forums, you'll get the most consistent advice about learning to erg. Watch the technique videos there as well.

There's a tiny bit of terminology you should know. Setting the resistance it called setting the damper, most on the water rowers I know say 3.5 - 5 is what most feels like the water. I find about 4.25 is what works best for me. Crossfitters, HIIT people might have different suggestions. While the stroke rate is important what really tells someone how fast you are going is your split. I believe it's on the default screen on the PM5. The split is your projected pace for 500 meters. From your post it sounds like you are at a 2:30 split. I can't tell if that's too fast based on your current level of fitness.

For those that are competitive rowers or erg'ers the "race" distance on an erg is a 2K. I can tell you just to drop a few seconds (split wise) takes lot's of training and time.

nick evets
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by nick evets » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:33 pm

If I understand correctly, OP, what you're doing is the equivalent of wanting to run, say, a 5k, but you're tearing out of your house as fast as you can, and dying at the end of the next street over.

So...set a goal of time, or distance (better) on your Concept 2. 5000 meters is probably too much, for now, but say...2500? Lower the resistance, and row away with good form, resting as needed, until you complete the distance. Then, as your fitness level increases you'll see your times getting lower and lower.

As far as concurrent entertainment to distract, personally I find TV shows, and movies or podcasts too distracting, and it's easy to lose intensity and focus. Music...concert videos...they seem to hit the sweet spot. But it's hard, painful work: I'm always amused by folks at the gym on treadmills, or ellipticals, flipping pages of a magazine, not a bit sweaty. Uh...

inbox788
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by inbox788 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:43 pm

barnaclebob wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:24 pm
Yes, healthy food as a punishment for not working out. I'm sure that's a great way to frame healthy eating.
Yeah, I'd be cautious about the incentive program. Here's another questionable one: betting on weight loss.

https://www.healthywage.com

It's a bit like viaticals, where the counter party is betting against your success. Use these motivating factors with caution.

Did someone mention virtual apps yet?

https://www.self.com/story/fitness-kino ... ke-run-row

I've seen biking apps where you can bike with friends online in the app. Maybe there is one like that for rowing.

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dm200
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by dm200 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:13 am

nick evets wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:33 pm
If I understand correctly, OP, what you're doing is the equivalent of wanting to run, say, a 5k, but you're tearing out of your house as fast as you can, and dying at the end of the next street over.
So...set a goal of time, or distance (better) on your Concept 2. 5000 meters is probably too much, for now, but say...2500? Lower the resistance, and row away with good form, resting as needed, until you complete the distance. Then, as your fitness level increases you'll see your times getting lower and lower.
As far as concurrent entertainment to distract, personally I find TV shows, and movies or podcasts too distracting, and it's easy to lose intensity and focus. Music...concert videos...they seem to hit the sweet spot. But it's hard, painful work: I'm always amused by folks at the gym on treadmills, or ellipticals, flipping pages of a magazine, not a bit sweaty. Uh...
As I noted, I use "Calories" - both total and rate as my "tracking" and motivation. I know the calorie numbers are not accurate - BUT are relatively significant - and it keeps me motivated. Some folks may like distance - or some other numbers. One friend of mine uses one of the games on the rower.

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CaliJim
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by CaliJim » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:56 pm

Getting started on a regular exercise routine can be HARD. The first few weeks/months especially as you build/rebuild fitness.
pilotpaul wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:26 am
Visit the Concept 2 forums. Many folks in your similar situation will share advice on how they train. Focus on a slower stroke rate and stronger stroke. Keep your rate below 22 strokes/min and work on a long strong strokes that begins with the legs. Definitely download ERGDATA and sync the results with the free Concept2 log. Set easily attainable goals and keep improving. I think it's an awesome piece of equipment. Get a heartrate chest strap and wirelessly connect to the PM5. Good luck.
+1


And adding on.... (lots of C2 experts here.... so I risk embarrassing myself... but) here is my advice:

Don't just get on the thing and row for calories. Ugh. Calories in/Calories out is so old school. No.. just because you burned 500 calories it DOES NOT MEAN you can have a milk shake. (No offense meant to other posters... just my opinion.)

Rather .... think of each session as race prep and occasionally, an actual race. Be in it to get better at it. Create workouts. Set goals. Improve your splits (500m pace) and personal bests on both interval and endurance workouts. (This is what works for me. YMMV)

Focus on form first. Watch the C2 beginner videos.
Next, focus on form and cadence.
Then, focus on form, cadence and power.
Finally, tie it all together: form, cadence, power, and endurance.

Slowly build your base. Don't go so hard or so often that you get injured. Rest and recover a day or two between harder workouts - until you have a good base, and muscles and joints are well acclimated to the motion. As you get in better shape, you get better at recovery as well and can workout more often. But go easy at first. So...maybe row a minimum of 2, but no more than 4 times a week at first, and increase meters per week by 1k or so until you get comfortable doing a total of 5k to 7k per workout every other day.

Alternate between interval training (to raise the anaerobic threshold) and longer endurance training, with progressively increasing numbers of sets, distances, and times. Interval training helps endurance performance as well. Example workouts:

5 to 10 sets of x 100m/250m/500m, with 30-45-60 seconds rest between sets. Row hard. Breath hard. Feel great after
1-2-3 sets x 750m/1000m Row not as hard. Congratulate yourself on going the distance
4 x 1000 meters with 3–4 minutes rest. Now you're talking.
4–5 x 5 minutes with 4 minutes rest. Similar to above.
5 x 4 minutes with 4 minutes rest. Did you get to 4 or 5k meters total?

http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/t ... -threshold

Row 2k's occasionally at a hard pace to gauge your overall progress:

*500m warmup. easy. bring up the temps and lube the joints.
*short rest, get a drink, do some dynamic stretches
*2 x 100m hard. really get hearts and lungs prepped
*3 minutes rest. walk around. swing the arms. psych up.
*2000m at race pace. go for it!
*short rest on the rower
*500m cool down
*shower, take a nap

Standard race distance is 2k. If 2k takes > 12 or 13 minutes, you have more base laying work to do. That's a 3 minute split (split=500m). Re-evaluate form, cadence, power.
*If you can do 2k in under 10 minutes.... you're doing better (sub 2:30 split)
*If you can do 2k in under 9 minutes.... you're doing real good (sub 2:15 split)
*If you can do 2k in under 8 minutes.... now you are really generating some power over time (sub 2:00 split)
*When you can do 2k in under 7.5 minutes...OMG that is awesome.

Geoffrey Knight of GBR rowed a 7:40.4 in his early 80's.

http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/r ... world/2000
-calijim- | | For more info, click this Wiki

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dm200
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by dm200 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:37 pm

CaliJim wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:56 pm
Getting started on a regular exercise routine can be HARD. The first few weeks/months especially as you build/rebuild fitness.
pilotpaul wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:26 am
Visit the Concept 2 forums. Many folks in your similar situation will share advice on how they train. Focus on a slower stroke rate and stronger stroke. Keep your rate below 22 strokes/min and work on a long strong strokes that begins with the legs. Definitely download ERGDATA and sync the results with the free Concept2 log. Set easily attainable goals and keep improving. I think it's an awesome piece of equipment. Get a heartrate chest strap and wirelessly connect to the PM5. Good luck.
+1
And adding on.... (lots of C2 experts here.... so I risk embarrassing myself... but) here is my advice:

Don't just get on the thing and row for calories. Ugh. Calories in/Calories out is so old school. No.. just because you burned 500 calories it DOES NOT MEAN you can have a milk shake. (No offense meant to other posters... just my opinion.)
Rather .... think of each session as race prep and occasionally, an actual race. Be in it to get better at it. Create workouts. Set goals. Improve your splits (500m pace) and personal bests on both interval and endurance workouts. (This is what works for me. YMMV)
Focus on form first. Watch the C2 beginner videos.
Next, focus on form and cadence.
Then, focus on form, cadence and power.
Finally, tie it all together: form, cadence, power, and endurance.
Slowly build your base. Don't go so hard or so often that you get injured. Rest and recover a day or two between harder workouts - until you have a good base, and muscles and joints are well acclimated to the motion. As you get in better shape, you get better at recovery as well and can workout more often. But go easy at first. So...maybe row a minimum of 2, but no more than 4 times a week at first, and increase meters per week by 1k or so until you get comfortable doing a total of 5k to 7k per workout every other day.
Alternate between interval training (to raise the anaerobic threshold) and longer endurance training, with progressively increasing numbers of sets, distances, and times. Interval training helps endurance performance as well. Example workouts:
5 to 10 sets of x 100m/250m/500m, with 30-45-60 seconds rest between sets. Row hard. Breath hard. Feel great after
1-2-3 sets x 750m/1000m Row not as hard. Congratulate yourself on going the distance
4 x 1000 meters with 3–4 minutes rest. Now you're talking.
4–5 x 5 minutes with 4 minutes rest. Similar to above.
5 x 4 minutes with 4 minutes rest. Did you get to 4 or 5k meters total?
http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/t ... -threshold
Row 2k's occasionally at a hard pace to gauge your overall progress:
*500m warmup. easy. bring up the temps and lube the joints.
*short rest, get a drink, do some dynamic stretches
*2 x 100m hard. really get hearts and lungs prepped
*3 minutes rest. walk around. swing the arms. psych up.
*2000m at race pace. go for it!
*short rest on the rower
*500m cool down
*shower, take a nap
Standard race distance is 2k. If 2k takes > 12 or 13 minutes, you have more base laying work to do. That's a 3 minute split (split=500m). Re-evaluate form, cadence, power.
*If you can do 2k in under 10 minutes.... you're doing better (sub 2:30 split)
*If you can do 2k in under 9 minutes.... you're doing real good (sub 2:15 split)
*If you can do 2k in under 8 minutes.... now you are really generating some power over time (sub 2:00 split)
*When you can do 2k in under 7.5 minutes...OMG that is awesome.
Geoffrey Knight of GBR rowed a 7:40.4 in his early 80's.
http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/r ... world/2000
For me. "calories" work - because I do not consider that to be universally accurate, but rather relatively accurate. I mean that if I am doing 500 cal/hr and row for 30 minutes - that 250 cal is relevant when, the next week, I move up to 550 cal/hr and do 30 min and count 275. I know that 250 cal on the C2 rower is not the same as 250 cal on the elliptical or stationary bike.

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Elsebet
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by Elsebet » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:02 pm

I don't do cardio currently, but when I do my 3x weekly recommended routine from /r/bodyweightfitness I usually watch a movie/tv series that my husband doesn't like. We only have one television and it's a nice treat to watch what I like on the big screen & sound system instead of my computer monitor.

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Cycle
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by Cycle » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:33 pm

I use the loop app to track my exercise daily. Categories I add are strength (lifting/yard work/shoveling), cardio(swim, run, ski, row), stretch (yoga). I exercise daily, but don't spend a lot of time doing it.

Also use it to track diet. 3 categories. No grains, no sugar/juice, no Vegetable oil.

I eat one meal a day during the week.

I've been meaning to get serious about the concept 2, so I like this topic.

IMO, long durations of cardio isn't necessary. Like I don't run over 2 miles at a time or bike over 4 miles or swim over 1 mile, but that is sufficient for me to do ironmans. When I do exercise though, I do it vigorously, like run 5:40 mile pace or just do intervals (sprints) uphill.

I recently ran a race with a distance further than the training I did all year and finished in the top 20.

phantom cosmonaut
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by phantom cosmonaut » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:10 pm

eagleeyes wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:25 pm
So I bought a concept 2 rowing machine. It’s awesome. But I can’t seem to last longer than 5 minutes on it. I have to struggle to get to a 1000 meters in 5 minutes...

Anybody have some tips? Pretty sure my technique is decent. Watched a bunch of YouTube vids. Or maybe it’s my conditioning.
Make sure you're not rowing too fast. The rule of thumb is 80/20. At least 80% of the time, you want to be rowing slowly enough to pass the "talk test". You should be able to carry on a conversation with someone, but the doing so should be just a touch uncomfortable. If you can't do that, you need to go slower. If talking feels completely normal, you're going too slow.

If you want to improve your speed, what you need is a high volume at low intensity. Instead of speeding up, aim to row for longer periods of time.

I run mostly myself, but have done some rowing. They key to running, I've found, is to have (a) have a heart rate monitor and (b) know what my target aerobic zone is and (c) stick to it. The same goes for running, I would think.

Yukon
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by Yukon » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:28 pm

Cycle wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:33 pm

IMO, long durations of cardio isn't necessary. Like I don't run over 2 miles at a time or bike over 4 miles or swim over 1 mile, but that is sufficient for me to do ironmans. When I do exercise though, I do it vigorously, like run 5:40 mile pace or just do intervals (sprints) uphill.

I recently ran a race with a distance further than the training I did all year and finished in the top 20.
Impressive. Would love to see your workout calendar. What's your week look like? High intensity every day but just rotate activities? 8 x 400s? 8 hill repeats? What's the secret?
Don't Work Forever.

tepper28
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by tepper28 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:35 pm

I love to use it for HIIT training. Generally 60 second sprints, or some defined distance like 250M, then let your heart rate come down to 60% of max and start the next sprint.

Alternatively, I've done four minute segments. Complete a segment at a strong, but not sprint pace, rest a minute, then start the next segment.

Going more than 5 minutes is more about breaks and you will achieve great cardio benefits by shorter high intensity intervals with rest. For whatever it's worth...

calmaniac
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by calmaniac » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:16 pm

eagleeyes wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:25 pm
So I bought a concept 2 rowing machine. It’s awesome. But I can’t seem to last longer than 5 minutes on it.
Methamphetamine? [Joke]

I find indoor exercise inherently boring. Some people love it. The secret was to find something you love to do.

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Cycle
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by Cycle » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:23 pm

Yukon wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:28 pm
Impressive. Would love to see your workout calendar. What's your week look like? High intensity every day but just rotate activities? 8 x 400s? 8 hill repeats? What's the secret?
Weights (for running really just squats are needed) 2x per week. I do the stronglifts 5x5 workout. The app is awesome. I do this year round when not injured. Sometimes I'll do kettle bells or a few minutes on the concept 2. Injured now from lifting.

Bike twice a day. 4 miles each way, vigorously. 6-7 days per week year round

When the lake isn't frozen swim open water .75-1.5 miles 1x per week. Typically just easy freestyle to make sure I won't drown during an Ironman.

Run. When training for something typically will do sprints twice a week 8x 200m with a 1.5-2m rest between, uphill if one is nearby. 800 jog warmup/cool down. If in good shape I'll do 12x. Run from danger effort. One 3 mile timed run per week, at about a 6 min mile.

Been running in minimalist shoes, so can't make it much beyond 2 miles right now. I wear regular shoes for distance events.

Sometimes I get lazy, but I can feel when my muscles are getting atrophied and I get out and do something about it. I haven't gone two weeks without some vigorous exercise since I was a junior in high school. I'm as fast now as I was then twenty years ago, mainly due to old man grit and strength training.

Cop51
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by Cop51 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:36 pm

I didn’t read all the comments so this may be a repeat but I use mine for Tabata 20 seconds on going hard at 90% power then 10 seconds off resting. I do this for 8 minutes.

lightheir
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by lightheir » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:07 pm

Cycle wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:33 pm
I use the loop app to track my exercise daily. Categories I add are strength (lifting/yard work/shoveling), cardio(swim, run, ski, row), stretch (yoga). I exercise daily, but don't spend a lot of time doing it.

Also use it to track diet. 3 categories. No grains, no sugar/juice, no Vegetable oil.

I eat one meal a day during the week.

I've been meaning to get serious about the concept 2, so I like this topic.

IMO, long durations of cardio isn't necessary. Like I don't run over 2 miles at a time or bike over 4 miles or swim over 1 mile, but that is sufficient for me to do ironmans. When I do exercise though, I do it vigorously, like run 5:40 mile pace or just do intervals (sprints) uphill.

I recently ran a race with a distance further than the training I did all year and finished in the top 20.

WHAAAAT??

I call mega BS on anyone who never bikes over 4 miles at a time, yet says they can race ironman races (which is a 2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike, and 26.2 mile run - takes amateurs typically 12-16 hours to complete, non stop.)

Swimming 1 mile then doing a 2.4 mile swim is very reasonable. But running <2 miles at a time, and racing 26.2? Or biking 4 miles at a time max at then racing 112? I don't think so. Are you doing tons of x-country skiing or some other cardio sport?

Prove me wrong!

inbox788
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by inbox788 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:51 pm

lightheir wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:07 pm
Cycle wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:33 pm
I use the loop app to track my exercise daily. Categories I add are strength (lifting/yard work/shoveling), cardio(swim, run, ski, row), stretch (yoga). I exercise daily, but don't spend a lot of time doing it.

Also use it to track diet. 3 categories. No grains, no sugar/juice, no Vegetable oil.

I eat one meal a day during the week.

I've been meaning to get serious about the concept 2, so I like this topic.

IMO, long durations of cardio isn't necessary. Like I don't run over 2 miles at a time or bike over 4 miles or swim over 1 mile, but that is sufficient for me to do ironmans. When I do exercise though, I do it vigorously, like run 5:40 mile pace or just do intervals (sprints) uphill.

I recently ran a race with a distance further than the training I did all year and finished in the top 20.

WHAAAAT??

I call mega BS on anyone who never bikes over 4 miles at a time, yet says they can race ironman races (which is a 2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike, and 26.2 mile run - takes amateurs typically 12-16 hours to complete, non stop.)

Swimming 1 mile then doing a 2.4 mile swim is very reasonable. But running <2 miles at a time, and racing 26.2? Or biking 4 miles at a time max at then racing 112? I don't think so. Are you doing tons of x-country skiing or some other cardio sport?

Prove me wrong!
I put in a goal of a 3 hour marathon for a 11:20 2 mile pace on my first try and look how close it is. It was just pure luck. It's possible "at a time" doesn't mean just once a day. Sprinters "only" run 100m at a time while training, but do many such reps. If he's doing 5 or 10 reps of <2 miles, the miles add up. And 5:40 is quite fit. And if the 4 miles of biking is all up a steep hill, then going 100 miles on flat is more believable. FWIW, I've been stuck on a plateau and not making much progress, so stepping up the intensity is probably what I have to do, but it's hard, both mentally and physically, and not falling back is already a partial success for me.

https://www.mcmillanrunning.com

Code: Select all

CURRENT TIMES
vLT 6:25vVO2 5:32
DISTANCE	TIME	PACE
100m	15.6	4:11
200m	31.3	4:11
400m	1:05.4	4:23
500m	1:25.4	4:34
600m	1:44.8	4:41
800m	2:23.7	4:49
1000m	3:08.9	5:04
1500m	4:55.9	5:17
1600m	5:18.0	5:19
Mile	5:20.1	5:20
2000m	6:46.4	5:27
1.5 Miles	8:20.0	5:33
3000m	10:32.5	5:39
3200m	11:15.7	5:39
2 Miles	11:20.0	5:40
4000m	14:30	5:50
3 Miles	17:44	5:55
5000m	18:31	5:58
6000m	22:24	6:01
4 Miles	24:04	6:01
8000m	30:31	6:08
5 Miles	30:42	6:08
10km	38:27	6:11
12km	46:45	6:16
15km	59:35	6:24
10 Miles	1:04:17	6:26
20km	1:21:04	6:31
1/2 Marathon	1:25:44	6:33
15 Miles	1:39:12	6:37
25km	1:43:00	6:38
30km	2:05:16	6:43
20 Miles	2:14:57	6:45
25 Miles	2:50:51	6:50
Marathon	3:00:26	6:53
50km	3:38:52	7:03
50 Miles	6:40:19	8:00
100km	8:47:26	8:29
100 Miles	17:21:47	10:25
GOAL TIMES
vLT 6:24vVO2 5:31
DISTANCE	TIME	PACE
100m	15.6	4:11
200m	31.2	4:11
400m	1:05.3	4:22
500m	1:25.2	4:34
600m	1:44.6	4:40
800m	2:23.3	4:48
1000m	3:08.5	5:03
1500m	4:55.2	5:16
1600m	5:17.2	5:19
Mile	5:19.3	5:19
2000m	6:45.5	5:26
1.5 Miles	8:18.8	5:32
3000m	10:31.0	5:38
3200m	11:14.1	5:39
2 Miles	11:18.4	5:39
4000m	14:28	5:49
3 Miles	17:42	5:54
5000m	18:28	5:57
6000m	22:21	6:00
4 Miles	24:00	6:00
8000m	30:26	6:07
5 Miles	30:38	6:08
10km	38:22	6:10
12km	46:39	6:15
15km	59:26	6:23
10 Miles	1:04:07	6:25
20km	1:20:52	6:30
1/2 Marathon	1:25:32	6:32
15 Miles	1:38:58	6:36
25km	1:42:45	6:37
30km	2:04:58	6:42
20 Miles	2:14:38	6:44
25 Miles	2:50:27	6:49
Marathon	3:00:00	6:52
50km	3:38:21	7:02
50 Miles	6:39:21	7:59
100km	8:46:10	8:28
100 Miles	17:19:17	10:24

lightheir
Posts: 2298
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:43 pm

Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by lightheir » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:16 pm

inbox788 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:51 pm
lightheir wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:07 pm
Cycle wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:33 pm
I use the loop app to track my exercise daily. Categories I add are strength (lifting/yard work/shoveling), cardio(swim, run, ski, row), stretch (yoga). I exercise daily, but don't spend a lot of time doing it.

Also use it to track diet. 3 categories. No grains, no sugar/juice, no Vegetable oil.

I eat one meal a day during the week.

I've been meaning to get serious about the concept 2, so I like this topic.

IMO, long durations of cardio isn't necessary. Like I don't run over 2 miles at a time or bike over 4 miles or swim over 1 mile, but that is sufficient for me to do ironmans. When I do exercise though, I do it vigorously, like run 5:40 mile pace or just do intervals (sprints) uphill.

I recently ran a race with a distance further than the training I did all year and finished in the top 20.

WHAAAAT??

I call mega BS on anyone who never bikes over 4 miles at a time, yet says they can race ironman races (which is a 2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike, and 26.2 mile run - takes amateurs typically 12-16 hours to complete, non stop.)

Swimming 1 mile then doing a 2.4 mile swim is very reasonable. But running <2 miles at a time, and racing 26.2? Or biking 4 miles at a time max at then racing 112? I don't think so. Are you doing tons of x-country skiing or some other cardio sport?

Prove me wrong!
I put in a goal of a 3 hour marathon for a 11:20 2 mile pace on my first try and look how close it is. It was just pure luck. It's possible "at a time" doesn't mean just once a day. Sprinters "only" run 100m at a time while training, but do many such reps. If he's doing 5 or 10 reps of <2 miles, the miles add up. And 5:40 is quite fit. And if the 4 miles of biking is all up a steep hill, then going 100 miles on flat is more believable. FWIW, I've been stuck on a plateau and not making much progress, so stepping up the intensity is probably what I have to do, but it's hard, both mentally and physically, and not falling back is already a partial success for me.

https://www.mcmillanrunning.com

Code: Select all

CURRENT TIMES
vLT 6:25vVO2 5:32
DISTANCE	TIME	PACE
100m	15.6	4:11
200m	31.3	4:11
400m	1:05.4	4:23
500m	1:25.4	4:34
600m	1:44.8	4:41
800m	2:23.7	4:49
1000m	3:08.9	5:04
1500m	4:55.9	5:17
1600m	5:18.0	5:19
Mile	5:20.1	5:20
2000m	6:46.4	5:27
1.5 Miles	8:20.0	5:33
3000m	10:32.5	5:39
3200m	11:15.7	5:39
2 Miles	11:20.0	5:40
4000m	14:30	5:50
3 Miles	17:44	5:55
5000m	18:31	5:58
6000m	22:24	6:01
4 Miles	24:04	6:01
8000m	30:31	6:08
5 Miles	30:42	6:08
10km	38:27	6:11
12km	46:45	6:16
15km	59:35	6:24
10 Miles	1:04:17	6:26
20km	1:21:04	6:31
1/2 Marathon	1:25:44	6:33
15 Miles	1:39:12	6:37
25km	1:43:00	6:38
30km	2:05:16	6:43
20 Miles	2:14:57	6:45
25 Miles	2:50:51	6:50
Marathon	3:00:26	6:53
50km	3:38:52	7:03
50 Miles	6:40:19	8:00
100km	8:47:26	8:29
100 Miles	17:21:47	10:25
GOAL TIMES
vLT 6:24vVO2 5:31
DISTANCE	TIME	PACE
100m	15.6	4:11
200m	31.2	4:11
400m	1:05.3	4:22
500m	1:25.2	4:34
600m	1:44.6	4:40
800m	2:23.3	4:48
1000m	3:08.5	5:03
1500m	4:55.2	5:16
1600m	5:17.2	5:19
Mile	5:19.3	5:19
2000m	6:45.5	5:26
1.5 Miles	8:18.8	5:32
3000m	10:31.0	5:38
3200m	11:14.1	5:39
2 Miles	11:18.4	5:39
4000m	14:28	5:49
3 Miles	17:42	5:54
5000m	18:28	5:57
6000m	22:21	6:00
4 Miles	24:00	6:00
8000m	30:26	6:07
5 Miles	30:38	6:08
10km	38:22	6:10
12km	46:39	6:15
15km	59:26	6:23
10 Miles	1:04:07	6:25
20km	1:20:52	6:30
1/2 Marathon	1:25:32	6:32
15 Miles	1:38:58	6:36
25km	1:42:45	6:37
30km	2:04:58	6:42
20 Miles	2:14:38	6:44
25 Miles	2:50:27	6:49
Marathon	3:00:00	6:52
50km	3:38:21	7:02
50 Miles	6:39:21	7:59
100km	8:46:10	8:28
100 Miles	17:19:17	10:24

Nope. Not even close at that running mileage.

I (as well as virtually every marathon runner who HAS run a marathon) knows full well that the Mcmillan estimates(as well as other calculator estimates) for your marathon potential based on 5k/10k results - is at best a very optmistic estimated ***ASSUMING YOU RUN 70ish MILES PER WEEK *** to support it.

It is NOT meant to say "wow - I just ran a 5:19 mile - this means I can go out tomorrow and run a 3:00:00 marathon or a 17:19:17 100 miler!"

I wish that were the case, but unfortunately, it's not even close. Now, if you're running 70mpw, AND you can hit that 5:19 mile, then you have respectably good chances of running a 3:00:00 marathon on a fast course on a good day.

But if you're running at most 2 miles at a time? Fuggetabout it. Post this scenario on any runner/triathlon forum, and 100% of the folks will agree with me there. The only possible exception is if you're literally running 50+mpw in tiny 2 mile increments (25 runs per week) or if you were running big mileage recently, and now are just coasting on your built-up gains which should hang around at least for a few weeks if not months despite the uberlow mileage.

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Cycle
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by Cycle » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:36 am

lightheir wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:07 pm
Cycle wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:33 pm
I use the loop app to track my exercise daily. Categories I add are strength (lifting/yard work/shoveling), cardio(swim, run, ski, row), stretch (yoga). I exercise daily, but don't spend a lot of time doing it.

Also use it to track diet. 3 categories. No grains, no sugar/juice, no Vegetable oil.

I eat one meal a day during the week.

I've been meaning to get serious about the concept 2, so I like this topic.

IMO, long durations of cardio isn't necessary. Like I don't run over 2 miles at a time or bike over 4 miles or swim over 1 mile, but that is sufficient for me to do ironmans. When I do exercise though, I do it vigorously, like run 5:40 mile pace or just do intervals (sprints) uphill.

I recently ran a race with a distance further than the training I did all year and finished in the top 20.

WHAAAAT??

I call mega BS on anyone who never bikes over 4 miles at a time, yet says they can race ironman races (which is a 2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike, and 26.2 mile run - takes amateurs typically 12-16 hours to complete, non stop.)

Swimming 1 mile then doing a 2.4 mile swim is very reasonable. But running <2 miles at a time, and racing 26.2? Or biking 4 miles at a time max at then racing 112? I don't think so. Are you doing tons of x-country skiing or some other cardio sport?

Prove me wrong!
I do x country ski, typically won't do more than 15k before a 50k race. I just don't see any benefit to any cardio activity over 20 minutes, for me anyways.

Before an Ironman I'll go for one or two long runs, like 7 miles each to break in the legs. I don't think these are necessary. The two IMs I did were a little over 13 hrs, but I was using a rental bike so my bike times were a little slow. One only needs to run the first 13 miles of the marathon and then jog then walk/jog the rest.

The big problem with this on the last one was that I hadn't worn clip ons in a year, so during the run I had to run a marathon on massive blisters. Never did a ride over 4 miles for that one since it was in April, but I would ride 6-7 days a week, twice per day.

Samething with the 25k trail race I did a few weeks ago. Having not run more than 2 miles at a time, I got massive blisters and two of my toenails turned black.

One other trick I use is a strick ketogenic diet 4 weeks going in to the race, so I drop a bunch of weight from that.

Im going to get a concept 2 workout in over lunch today, have used one in 6 months. Going to be soar tomorrow!

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Cycle
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by Cycle » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:40 am

On interval workouts listen to this podcast from Dr Gibala on Tim Ferriss. I'm a big proponent of interval workouts. Work on speed and the endurance will follow.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/tim.blog/2 ... ibala/amp/

lightheir
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by lightheir » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:45 pm

Cycle wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:36 am
lightheir wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:07 pm
Cycle wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:33 pm
I use the loop app to track my exercise daily. Categories I add are strength (lifting/yard work/shoveling), cardio(swim, run, ski, row), stretch (yoga). I exercise daily, but don't spend a lot of time doing it.

Also use it to track diet. 3 categories. No grains, no sugar/juice, no Vegetable oil.

I eat one meal a day during the week.

I've been meaning to get serious about the concept 2, so I like this topic.

IMO, long durations of cardio isn't necessary. Like I don't run over 2 miles at a time or bike over 4 miles or swim over 1 mile, but that is sufficient for me to do ironmans. When I do exercise though, I do it vigorously, like run 5:40 mile pace or just do intervals (sprints) uphill.

I recently ran a race with a distance further than the training I did all year and finished in the top 20.

WHAAAAT??

I call mega BS on anyone who never bikes over 4 miles at a time, yet says they can race ironman races (which is a 2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike, and 26.2 mile run - takes amateurs typically 12-16 hours to complete, non stop.)

Swimming 1 mile then doing a 2.4 mile swim is very reasonable. But running <2 miles at a time, and racing 26.2? Or biking 4 miles at a time max at then racing 112? I don't think so. Are you doing tons of x-country skiing or some other cardio sport?

Prove me wrong!
I do x country ski, typically won't do more than 15k before a 50k race. I just don't see any benefit to any cardio activity over 20 minutes, for me anyways.

Before an Ironman I'll go for one or two long runs, like 7 miles each to break in the legs. I don't think these are necessary. The two IMs I did were a little over 13 hrs, but I was using a rental bike so my bike times were a little slow. One only needs to run the first 13 miles of the marathon and then jog then walk/jog the rest.

The big problem with this on the last one was that I hadn't worn clip ons in a year, so during the run I had to run a marathon on massive blisters. Never did a ride over 4 miles for that one since it was in April, but I would ride 6-7 days a week, twice per day.

Samething with the 25k trail race I did a few weeks ago. Having not run more than 2 miles at a time, I got massive blisters and two of my toenails turned black.

One other trick I use is a strick ketogenic diet 4 weeks going in to the race, so I drop a bunch of weight from that.

Im going to get a concept 2 workout in over lunch today, have used one in 6 months. Going to be soar tomorrow!
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're telling the truth, which means you're probably one of the most gifted endurance amateurs out there.

I guarantee that if you took 100 random people, including current triathletes and endurance athletes, limited their bike and run training to the extent you do and keep them there for 3 years (so you can't coast off prior training), literally 99% of them would drop out of the IM at some point or not make the cutoff. Your training method makes even the 'raw beginner' plans for ironman training or even straight up half marathon training, look super hard in comparison.

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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by phantom cosmonaut » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:49 pm

lightheir wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:45 pm
Cycle wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:36 am
[...]
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're telling the truth, which means you're probably one of the most gifted endurance amateurs out there.

I guarantee that if you took 100 random people, including current triathletes and endurance athletes, limited their bike and run training to the extent you do and keep them there for 3 years (so you can't coast off prior training), literally 99% of them would drop out of the IM at some point or not make the cutoff. Your training method makes even the 'raw beginner' plans for ironman training or even straight up half marathon training, look super hard in comparison.
So I'm a runner who thinks the proper way to train for a marathon is to run 50 miles a week at a minimum and more like 100 if you want to be any good. That said, just *finishing* an endurance race isn't all that hard, especially if you're young and otherwise fit. You just have to go slow. Which is what I gather the poster did given the walk/jogging and +13 hour IM times.

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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by TheOscarGuy » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:16 pm

eagleeyes wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:25 pm
So I bought a concept 2 rowing machine. It’s awesome. But I can’t seem to last longer than 5 minutes on it. I have to struggle to get to a 1000 meters in 5 minutes...

Anybody have some tips? Pretty sure my technique is decent. Watched a bunch of YouTube vids. Or maybe it’s my conditioning.
I have exact same rowing machine, I have had it for several years now. I totally know what you mean. I have now started rowing in front of a TV in my basement and I have something on it, I don't get bored too much. I kinda wish they had a good attachment for iPod or whatever, and a speaker, as I can barely hear iPad when rowing machine is being used.

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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by Cycle » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:11 pm

lightheir wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:45 pm
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're telling the truth, which means you're probably one of the most gifted endurance amateurs out there.

I guarantee that if you took 100 random people, including current triathletes and endurance athletes, limited their bike and run training to the extent you do and keep them there for 3 years (so you can't coast off prior training), literally 99% of them would drop out of the IM at some point or not make the cutoff. Your training method makes even the 'raw beginner' plans for ironman training or even straight up half marathon training, look super hard in comparison.
When training, I bike 8hrs a week, Climb 100 flights of stairs, Lift for 2-3hrs, run for 1 hr, swim for 1-2hrs. That's 15 hours of pretty high intensity workouts plus another couple hours of yoga. That's a lot of activity, probably more than 99% of the population.

An Ironman is just a long day of lots of low intensity activity for most. I have no idea how people finish them in under 10 hrs, but for the 13hr+ folks like myself it's just a long day of easy exercise with usually one really annoying injury or cramp that appears and to make it a hurtlocker. Ironmans are WAY easier to finish than say a 50 mile trail run.

I've met other IM participants who did zero running before the IM due to IT band injuries. It's pretty common. They just do a 6hr marathon.

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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by CedarWaxWing » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:19 pm

black jack wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:13 am
Congratulations on the new exercise machine!

I like podcasts or audiobooks for my long runs too.

But first things first: is this your first experience with a rowing machine? If you can't last more than 5 minutes, you're going too hard, and are likely to burn yourself out and stop using the rower.

You could either do high intensity interval workouts, or scale back and go at a pace that you can keep up for more than 5 minutes (aim for 15 or more) and enjoy while you're doing it.

You may not be a beginner at this, but if you are: the #1 mistake of a novice exerciser is going too hard too soon--which is why so many people give up on exercise. Hopefully this will become a part of your life for many years to come; take it easy, and keep going.
Very true. Consider doing it in front of a good movie. Maybe 4 minute intervals easy at first. Rest 4 minutes, then 4 minutes aa a touch higher pace without too much resistance. Do that several times in front of the movie and not to the point of exhaustion. every week add only one minute to the times. Seems like slow progress, but in time if it is too slow... you will naturally do it a little faster, a little longer, but for the first month or two slow progress it good. When you find yourself being only comfortably winded you can naturally pick up the pace if you like.. but no big deal to take your time on building up the pace, times, or resistance. Keep it fun or you may well decide to quite altogether.

As you progress... do NOT do it every day so as to avoid tendonitis (golfers elbow, tennis elbow). When you get up to 30 -60 minutes per day, only do it every other day, so as to have a good recovery period between strenuous workouts. There is no hurry... if you push it you will be less likely to enjoy it. :)

Best...
Last edited by CedarWaxWing on Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by Cycle » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:51 pm

inbox788 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:51 pm

I put in a goal of a 3 hour marathon for a 11:20 2 mile pace on my first try and look how close it is. It was just pure luck. It's possible "at a time" doesn't mean just once a day. Sprinters "only" run 100m at a time while training, but do many such reps. If he's doing 5 or 10 reps of <2 miles, the miles add up. And 5:40 is quite fit. And if the 4 miles of biking is all up a steep hill, then going 100 miles on flat is more believable. FWIW, I've been stuck on a plateau and not making much progress, so stepping up the intensity is probably what I have to do, but it's hard, both mentally and physically, and not falling back is already a partial success for me.
The 2 mile run is fine for IM or even half marathon. My Ironman marathons are 4.75-5.5hrs.

For marathon training most of my runs are 3-7 miles, plus the interval work. 3 runs a week (2 weekday, 1 weekend). I also have always put a 10-13 mile run in 4 weeks before and 18-20 mile run in 3 weeks before the event. My marathon times have ranged from 3:14-3:25. I could probably shave 10 minutes off my PR if I followed some training plan, especially since those times are pre-squat era for me. I did significant walking in all my marathons thus far, as I run with the 3hr pace group till mile 18 then blow up.

If you want to break a plateau, squats and track work will do the trick.

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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by Cycle » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:36 pm

I gave a lot of bad advice on this thread. I think I may have been training wrong for endurance events the last 20 years.

If you're training your aerobic system for endurance sports, like lasting on the concept 2 for 45 minutes, train your aerobic system.

Listen to this:
http://trailrunnernation.com/2013/01/dr ... wing-down/

Read this:
http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/cip ... n_2007.pdf

The summary is to train with a heart rate monitor to keep your body below it's aerobic threashold, eventually you will gain speed but still be operating aerobically. The no-pain/no-gain strategy I employ relies heavily on the anaerobic system and leads to bonks around mile 18 of marathons.

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dm200
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Re: Rowing machine motivation

Post by dm200 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:38 pm

No expertise myself - but from credible things I read - to maximize performance in running - you need to do almost all training/preparation running.

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