Tesla Autopilot, worth it?

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queso
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Re: Tesla Autopilot, worth it?

Post by queso » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:37 pm

GAAP wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 11:10 am
As a motorcyclist, I am inherently opposed to anything that encourages drivers to disconnect from the driving experience.

Given how poor systems like this are at identifying the presence of a motorcycle, I'm even more opposed.

I think such systems should be banned...
I had a discussion with another rider about this the other day concerning whether or not we ought to just illegally filter at red lights to avoid being hit from behind by a distracted driver or a Tesla on autopilot. It seems they like to hit stationary objects and if they have trouble detecting a fire truck, a jersey barrier or an 18 wheeler with trailer attached (massive lol all around) I'm thinking the occasional visit to traffic court might be a worthwhile safety investment.

jdb
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Re: Tesla Autopilot, worth it?

Post by jdb » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:01 pm

wrongfunds wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 12:55 pm
Can we get a moderator to request cut down by Tesla shorts to troll the topic? Trolling is an art and some of you need to learn it so that you can do it with a finesse. Frankly, the way being done here is too obvious and irritating.
Not too much joy in Tesla shortville this week. But agree that this thread like other Tesla threads seems to get lots of negative feedback from posters who I suspect never rode in a Tesla vehicle let alone have owned one or have experience with autopilot. But staying on topic, we have Model S now with over 60,000 miles without autopilot and love the vehicle. We have Model X with full autopilot and love the vehicle. We are ordering autopilot on the two
Model 3’s, one of which is now in production. I like the autopilot in rush hour traffic, the sensors are much quicker than me to detect a driver cutting in front without signaling or suddenly braking seemingly without reason, but never use the autosteer function. Bottom line, it is great vehicle with or without autopilot. But if you do get autopilot please read manual and never take your eyes off road or your hands off steering wheel. Good luck.
Last edited by jdb on Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Leif
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Re: Tesla Autopilot, worth it?

Post by Leif » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:45 pm

jdb wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:01 pm
I like the autopilot in rush hour traffic but never use the autosteer function.
Do you think $5,000 is a bit much for just TACC? To each his own.
jdb wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:01 pm
Bottom line, it is great vehicle with or without autopilot. But if you do get autopilot please read manual and never take your eyes off road or your hands off steering wheel.
Absolutely.
Investors should diversify across many asset-classes so that whatever happens, we will not have all our investments in underperforming asset classes and thereby fail to meet our goals-Taylor Larimore

alexander29
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Re: Tesla Autopilot, worth it?

Post by alexander29 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:00 pm

Robotic autopilot is obviously a work in progress, but to be fair, here's the police blotter human record for ONE WEEK in my town of 20,000:

- A 95-year-old woman was killed when she made a hasty left turn into the path of an oncoming sheriff deputy SUV.
- An unoccupied Mini-Cooper was not put in park, rolled onto the highway, and smashed into another car.
- A distracted 39-year-old (cell phone?) went off the road with his pickup and hit an unoccupied sedan.
- An erratic 68-year-old who fell out of his car when finally stopped was tested at twice the legal limit for alcohol.
- A 25-year-old failed to yield the right of way and hit another car.
- A mountain biker with a felony warrant was stopped carrying illegal drugs.
- A speeding 33-year-old was found to have a suspended license and lacking a required ignition interlock device.
- A 28-year=old who was stopped after an illegal U-turn was found to be driving with a suspended license.
- A 32-year-old made an illegal U-turn across double yellow lines and totaled his car after hitting an SUV.

If Elon Musk can do better, I say Go Tesla.

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matjen
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Re: Tesla Autopilot, worth it?

Post by matjen » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:31 pm

Here is a preliminary NTSB report on a Tesla on Autopilot running into the sharp end of a median. Not just running into it but accelerating into it.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acc ... inary.aspx
A preliminary review of the recorded performance data showed the following:

The Autopilot system was engaged on four separate occasions during the 32-minute trip, including a continuous operation for the last 18 minutes 55 seconds prior to the crash.
During the 18-minute 55-second segment, the vehicle provided two visual alerts and one auditory alert for the driver to place his hands on the steering wheel. These alerts were made more than 15 minutes prior to the crash.
During the 60 seconds prior to the crash, the driver’s hands were detected on the steering wheel on three separate occasions, for a total of 34 seconds; for the last 6 seconds prior to the crash, the vehicle did not detect the driver’s hands on the steering wheel.
At 8 seconds prior to the crash, the Tesla was following a lead vehicle and was traveling about 65 mph.
At 7 seconds prior to the crash, the Tesla began a left steering movement while following a lead vehicle.
At 4 seconds prior to the crash, the Tesla was no longer following a lead vehicle.
At 3 seconds prior to the crash and up to the time of impact with the crash attenuator, the Tesla’s speed increased from 62 to 70.8 mph, with no precrash braking or evasive steering movement detected.
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.

GAAP
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Re: Tesla Autopilot, worth it?

Post by GAAP » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:43 pm

queso wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:37 pm
GAAP wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 11:10 am
As a motorcyclist, I am inherently opposed to anything that encourages drivers to disconnect from the driving experience.

Given how poor systems like this are at identifying the presence of a motorcycle, I'm even more opposed.

I think such systems should be banned...
I had a discussion with another rider about this the other day concerning whether or not we ought to just illegally filter at red lights to avoid being hit from behind by a distracted driver or a Tesla on autopilot. It seems they like to hit stationary objects and if they have trouble detecting a fire truck, a jersey barrier or an 18 wheeler with trailer attached (massive lol all around) I'm thinking the occasional visit to traffic court might be a worthwhile safety investment.
Where I used to live, filtering and lane splitting wasn't illegal -- and I feel a lot less safe here in any sort of traffic situation. I've been rear-ended in my truck -- really wouldn't want that on a motorcycle...

PhilosophyAndrew
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Re: Tesla Autopilot, worth it?

Post by PhilosophyAndrew » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:06 pm

Leif wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:45 pm
Do you think $5,000 is a bit much for just TACC? To each his own.
It could be worse: My Mercedes required a $9,000 option package to receive adaptive cruise control. That package also gave it auto steering, auto lane change, enhanced emergency breaking for cross traffic, upgraded seats, upgraded sound, heads-up display, etc.

Even though the Mercedes $9,000 package includes many other options, its pricing suggests that, like Tesla, Mercedes priced the semi-autonomous functionality in the thousands of dollars. Since this is cutting edge technologhy, this is unsurprising; the price should fall as it becomes more common. I wish that Tesla and Mercedes would offer the adaptive cruise control separately, but I understand why they want to bundle it in an expensive package.

Andy.

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Leif
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Re: Tesla Autopilot, worth it?

Post by Leif » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:36 pm

PhilosophyAndrew wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:06 pm
I wish that Tesla and Mercedes would offer the adaptive cruise control separately, but I understand why they want to bundle it in an expensive package.

Andy.
I wanted the mythical unicorn called Full Self Drive so to get that I needed EAP. Now I just wish I passed on both. Fixed speed cruise control is standard, which is good enough for me.
Investors should diversify across many asset-classes so that whatever happens, we will not have all our investments in underperforming asset classes and thereby fail to meet our goals-Taylor Larimore

PhilosophyAndrew
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Re: Tesla Autopilot, worth it?

Post by PhilosophyAndrew » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:01 pm

Leif wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:36 pm
PhilosophyAndrew wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:06 pm
I wish that Tesla and Mercedes would offer the adaptive cruise control separately, but I understand why they want to bundle it in an expensive package.

Andy.
I wanted the mythical unicorn called Full Self Drive so to get that I needed EAP. Now I just wish I passed on both. Fixed speed cruise control is standard, which is good enough for me.
I enjoy playing with tech gadgets and happily bought the Mercedes package on my car; my wife doesn’t like gadgets and gimmickry and happily chose not to purchase Autopilot on her Tesla; each of us ended up with cars we enjoy a lot.

Andy.

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matjen
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Re: Tesla Autopilot, worth it?

Post by matjen » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:18 am

The video in this BBC article is pretty chilling. The Tesla driver had perhaps 2 seconds time to adjust to AutoPilot failure. This is a common type of occurrence it seems to me. I have BMW's traffic jam assist technology in one of my cars and do use it fairly frequently in slow moving traffic conditions. Very useful for that.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44439523
With the Autopilot system switched on, the Model S kept in lane and slowed to a halt when a car it was following encountered standing traffic.

But on a second run the car in front switched lanes at the last moment, and the Tesla was unable to brake in time, running into a stationary vehicle.
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.

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Leif
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Re: Tesla Autopilot, worth it?

Post by Leif » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:47 am

matjen wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:18 am
The video in this BBC article is pretty chilling.
I wonder if this is a Tesla cruise control (Traffic Aware Cruise Control - TACC) issue or that other cars with adaptive cruise control have the same issue. If other cars do not have the issue then Tesla needs to fix it. Certainly an inattentive driver would experience the same results. Hopefully Tesla can program their TACC to handle this, but it may be a limitation of the range of the sensors. In some cases, where I can see the traffic is slowing down my car with TACC on is not slowing since it does not "see" the tail lights and out of range for the radar.
Last edited by Leif on Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Investors should diversify across many asset-classes so that whatever happens, we will not have all our investments in underperforming asset classes and thereby fail to meet our goals-Taylor Larimore

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HomerJ
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Re: Tesla Autopilot, worth it?

Post by HomerJ » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:17 am

jdb wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:01 pm
wrongfunds wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 12:55 pm
Can we get a moderator to request cut down by Tesla shorts to troll the topic? Trolling is an art and some of you need to learn it so that you can do it with a finesse. Frankly, the way being done here is too obvious and irritating.
Not too much joy in Tesla shortville this week. But agree that this thread like other Tesla threads seems to get lots of negative feedback from posters who I suspect never rode in a Tesla vehicle let alone have owned one or have experience with autopilot. But staying on topic, we have Model S now with over 60,000 miles without autopilot and love the vehicle. We have Model X with full autopilot and love the vehicle. We are ordering autopilot on the two
Model 3’s, one of which is now in production. I like the autopilot in rush hour traffic, the sensors are much quicker than me to detect a driver cutting in front without signaling or suddenly braking seemingly without reason, but never use the autosteer function. Bottom line, it is great vehicle with or without autopilot. But if you do get autopilot please read manual and never take your eyes off road or your hands off steering wheel. Good luck.
Why do you need 4 cars?
The J stands for Jay

jdb
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Re: Tesla Autopilot, worth it?

Post by jdb » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:08 am

HomerJ wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:17 am
jdb wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:01 pm
wrongfunds wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 12:55 pm
Can we get a moderator to request cut down by Tesla shorts to troll the topic? Trolling is an art and some of you need to learn it so that you can do it with a finesse. Frankly, the way being done here is too obvious and irritating.
Not too much joy in Tesla shortville this week. But agree that this thread like other Tesla threads seems to get lots of negative feedback from posters who I suspect never rode in a Tesla vehicle let alone have owned one or have experience with autopilot. But staying on topic, we have Model S now with over 60,000 miles without autopilot and love the vehicle. We have Model X with full autopilot and love the vehicle. We are ordering autopilot on the two
Model 3’s, one of which is now in production. I like the autopilot in rush hour traffic, the sensors are much quicker than me to detect a driver cutting in front without signaling or suddenly braking seemingly without reason, but never use the autosteer function. Bottom line, it is great vehicle with or without autopilot. But if you do get autopilot please read manual and never take your eyes off road or your hands off steering wheel. Good luck.
Why do you need 4 cars?
Good question. The two Model 3’s are for our adult sons and spouses in Chicago and Cincinnati.

wrongfunds
Posts: 1728
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: Tesla Autopilot, worth it?

Post by wrongfunds » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:18 pm

Good question. The two Model 3’s are for our adult sons and spouses in Chicago and Cincinnati.
I agree with you 100% that your two spouses should be kept away from each other.

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