Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

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investingdad
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by investingdad » Thu May 31, 2018 9:45 am

You have 3.2 million in your early 30s and expenses of 120k a year.

Assuming 15% tax rate, you're pulling 4.4% of portfolio to cover expenses.

I'd feel more comfortable with a portfolio of 4.6 million if you're not going to work. Especially at your age. I only say this because we have similar expenses, about 2.5 mil, and are mid 40s and 4.5 is my target.

I think you're close to FIRE, but not quite there yet.

The best part of working a traditional job in your area of expertise for a few years to get you over the hump? No pressure! All the self important senior managers and junior VPs would likely fall over themselves to be in your financial position, which gives you a lot of freedom.

dustinst22
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by dustinst22 » Thu May 31, 2018 9:55 am

I'm going to guess affiliate marketing.

I'm in a similar boat (if affiliate marketing is your niche). I will probably pivot to real estate once the well is totally dry.

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ClevrChico
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by ClevrChico » Thu May 31, 2018 10:06 am

Do you have family near your current home? If not, there are a ton of great LCOL places to live. With $3m and kids, I wouldn't be too eager to jump into corporate life. You could find employment doing something fun, get involved with community organizations, etc.

coupleofcents
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by coupleofcents » Thu May 31, 2018 10:09 am

I'm assuming the 2.5 million index funds are in a taxable account. Why not just take the dividends (estimating about 50k per year) since you don't want to use assets. Then make a move to a LCOL and work any job really to make up the difference. You could definitely lower your spend from 100K in a LCOL if you wanted to.

-buzz-
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by -buzz- » Thu May 31, 2018 10:48 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 9:13 pm
1. Move from HCOL to LCOL
2. Cut expenses
3. "IF" you have the savy and knack for it, and a passion to do so for the "long term", and willingness to do "whatever it takes to succeed". . . consider exploring being a landlord for your own multi unit housing units. You can continue working while you do so. Done the traditional way, not high leveraged, "easy money approach", or other "finagling", R/E multi unit housing rentals can be a lucrative and/or long term career option. If you have the savvy, "grit" and fortitude to be a businessman, this is one area that may work for you.
*disclaimer : (it is not for everyone, or those who are not entrepreneurial or business inclined or needs structure and predictability)
4. Of course, balance the above with a solid "Bogle financial plan and 3 fund portfolio".
5. Along the lines of the above, cultivate multiple income streams (like tending a garden) that will grow and mature as years go by. You will be exceedingly ahead of the game.
+1 on the advice above.

Personally, I would not consider retirement at 33 years old even if I could afford it. There is just too much opportunity out there in the world to be productive.

Real estate investing could create some great rental income without going the corporate route. Cash flow should be great since you can do it without debt. You would still have time to work doing something else or even go back to school to take your future career in a different direction.

Keeping a job with some reasonable amount of income and access to health insurance would be great. No need to be on a stressful career track. Starting your own business or even working for a nonprofit that had a mission you believe in could be great options.

mobi
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by mobi » Thu May 31, 2018 10:55 am

gcc32 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:28 am
mobi wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 10:17 pm
I've been reading this forum for more than a year and decided to register after reading your post. I'm in the same exact situation. Around the same amount of money, but 40 years old. I did affiliate marketing for almost 10 years. I don't have any advice, I tried living on the beach for 1 year, but it was boring. I have a bunch of free time, and it seems that I can't get myself into a new career or business after I made money online. I loved my career but died slowly. After I realized my business had days counted I moved to a low cost of living area.
How do you enjoy the new area? What do you do with your free time? What other jobs or careers have you tried?
I like it. Outside the big city with their traffic but close enough, no hard winters, no state tax, affordable rent, affordable home prices, good for the outdoors. Not much entertainment like the big city, but great for families.

I spent some time on Coursera learning different topics. Also I'm still doing some online stuff part-time. I used to spent a lot of time watching the markets and it's so depressing. I quit doing it and it's much better. I invest with index funds, and buy and hold technology stocks, but I did a little bit of trading and the returns were not impressive. I'm still trying to figure out what to do with my life, I basically tried early retirement for 1 year living in a beach condo but was brutal, I'm not ready to do nothing. I'm updating my programming skills and will try a part time job as a contractor and see what happens. Other options are eCommerce but too crowded, lot of work and low margins, or brick and mortal, probably a franchise.

mobi
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by mobi » Thu May 31, 2018 10:58 am

gcc32 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:28 am
mobi wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 10:17 pm
I've been reading this forum for more than a year and decided to register after reading your post. I'm in the same exact situation. Around the same amount of money, but 40 years old. I did affiliate marketing for almost 10 years. I don't have any advice, I tried living on the beach for 1 year, but it was boring. I have a bunch of free time, and it seems that I can't get myself into a new career or business after I made money online. I loved my career but died slowly. After I realized my business had days counted I moved to a low cost of living area.
What other jobs or careers have you tried?
I tried to be a landlord, with one rental property, and I hate it. Not for me!

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market timer
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by market timer » Thu May 31, 2018 11:04 am

dustinst22 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:55 am
I'm going to guess affiliate marketing.

I'm in a similar boat (if affiliate marketing is your niche). I will probably pivot to real estate once the well is totally dry.
mobi wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 10:17 pm
I've been reading this forum for more than a year and decided to register after reading your post. I'm in the same exact situation. Around the same amount of money, but 40 years old. I did affiliate marketing for almost 10 years. I don't have any advice, I tried living on the beach for 1 year, but it was boring. I have a bunch of free time, and it seems that I can't get myself into a new career or business after I made money online. I loved my career but died slowly. After I realized my business had days counted I moved to a low cost of living area.
Am I the only one who would like to see a discussion of how to make $3mn+ on affiliate marketing?

bhough
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by bhough » Thu May 31, 2018 12:47 pm

Dear OP,

You are no longer working for money. You will now be working for joy or meaning. Don't confuse the two.

When you work for money, you have to tolerate things that are irritating, but because people have to tolerate them, they tend to stay in jobs and careers and advance. When one has unlimited funds and can quit when things are irritating, they tend not to have a career. Avoid this trap.

I would reflect on what it is that you are good at. And then do this, but only for 40 hours/week. Take a paycheck in this field and spend your paycheck, but realize that you are doing this work for the good of society. Also, you can't quit. By that I mean you can quit your individual job, but then you have to work for another company doing a similar thing.

For example. Let's say that you are an excellent computer programmer. In this case, you will get a job at a local community college (it doesn't have to be Caltech) and you will teach middle class kids with a high degree of quality and patience. You will not get paid that much. When your bosses become jerks and you can't take it anymore, then apply to the community college down the street, but keep working.

Your kid also needs to be able to tell their friends what you do. They also need to tell themselves that their dad is an honest, hardworking person who is contributing to the common good. Don't martyr yourself, but don't flit from one thing to another without providing some community/global benefit. I don't mean an Adam Smith/Invisible hand type benefit. I mean doing something that you are good at that is important to your local community.

I realize this is actually a very tough question that most folks never need to ask themselves as they spend all of their money. It is rare that we are faced with this kind of existential question and usually it is between the ages of 55-60, not at 33. Good luck.
b

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by NoVa Lurker » Thu May 31, 2018 1:49 pm

The replies to this question (versus the replies to a thread from, say, a 42-year-old widow who received a $1m+ insurance settlement and is now being hounded by financial advisors) are a reminder of what is a bit beyond the skills of this forum, vs. what this forum does very well.

You can get good advice here on how to approach the investment of your $3m egg at 33 years old.

However, OP already seems to have a good understanding on that front. Meanwhile, a lot of the career / life-planning advice here does not seem very useful to a 33-year-old with a wife and infant.

My advice would be to not do a complete 180. Not take a 4-year vacation. Not start now with the work of applying to a graduate program where you might not enter for 1.5 years, and might not finish and start a new job until close to age 40. Not move somewhere where you have no connections, and where your wife doesn't know anyone.

Instead, think about the skills that earned you the money you have now, and think about how you can apply those skills in a way that will help people and make you feel engaged with your work. Then figure out what opportunities are in front of you.

One other thing to note - if your wife is a public school teacher, her salary might not seem like much now. But gradually, the salary increases. In a HCOL area, by around Year 15 of teaching, she could make around $100k, with pension benefits and a work calendar that roughly matches the kids' school calendar. Don't discount it too much.

Best of luck.

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marti038
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by marti038 » Thu May 31, 2018 2:21 pm

If I was in your shoes...

1) I'd love for my wife to stay home with the kiddos. Mine works part time, but our quality of life is higher when she's at home.
2) I'd buy a home in a lower COL area.
3) I'd use some of the money to build a shop at my house from which I'd operate my woodworking business. I'd start each day around 9:00 after I'd gotten in my triathlon training for the day and dropped the kids off at school.

In summary, I'd preserve almost all of what I had saved/earned and look for a way to make a living doing what I really enjoy. This will be a personal decision for you, but if you take your time I suspect you won't have any regrets.

I read 48 Days to the Work you Love once. It didn't lead to any dramatic changes for me, but I thought it was a good book. It's short and you might find it helpful.

You're in a great spot. Congratulations.

go_mets
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by go_mets » Thu May 31, 2018 2:33 pm

market timer wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:04 am
dustinst22 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:55 am
I'm going to guess affiliate marketing.

I'm in a similar boat (if affiliate marketing is your niche). I will probably pivot to real estate once the well is totally dry.
mobi wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 10:17 pm
I've been reading this forum for more than a year and decided to register after reading your post. I'm in the same exact situation. Around the same amount of money, but 40 years old. I did affiliate marketing for almost 10 years. I don't have any advice, I tried living on the beach for 1 year, but it was boring. I have a bunch of free time, and it seems that I can't get myself into a new career or business after I made money online. I loved my career but died slowly. After I realized my business had days counted I moved to a low cost of living area.
Am I the only one who would like to see a discussion of how to make $3mn+ on affiliate marketing?

I suspect those who actually have done it aren't going to share their knowledge.
Notice they only come here to Bogleheads *after*.

And those who do "share" are like those infomercials on TV promising riches galore.


.

Loik098
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by Loik098 » Thu May 31, 2018 4:11 pm

mak1277 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 7:57 am
gcc32 wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 5:39 pm
I feel like it would be really hard to teach them a lot of things while living a semi life of leisure.
Disagree 100%. I think it would be really hard to teach my kid a lot of things if I'm away from him all the time because of a job. Much easier to teach when in close proximity!!
1) Unless one plans to home-school, the kids will already be away from YOU for most of the day on weekdays while they are at school/activities. Then, they will have homework. I wouldn't see an extreme amount of value gained from me being there when they arrive home at 3pm instead of returning home from work at 5pm....at least, not enough to say I'd never work because of it. As they get older, they're likely not to even beat you home from work.

2) Kids learn primarily by example, not by words. It's hard for young minds to grasp the concepts of working hard, responsibility, time management when you aren't practicing them yourself and are instead blabbing on about them in your pajamas while they are getting ready for school. I imagine my kids would just say, "yeah, yeah, yeah. Just teach me how to get rich quick like you did."

BVRFC
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by BVRFC » Thu May 31, 2018 4:18 pm

$3.2M * 0.04 = $128,000

$128,000 - $120,000 = $8,000

$128,000 - $100,000 = $28,000

You already won the game. Don't sound so glum. Move to a lake in a low cost of living area and pump gas at a marina part time to keep you from going stir crazy. Enjoy the time with your wife and child. Go back to work if/when you find something you think would be fun to do.

mak1277
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by mak1277 » Thu May 31, 2018 4:41 pm

Loik098 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 4:11 pm

2) Kids learn primarily by example, not by words. It's hard for young minds to grasp the concepts of working hard, responsibility, time management when you aren't practicing them yourself and are instead blabbing on about them in your pajamas while they are getting ready for school. I imagine my kids would just say, "yeah, yeah, yeah. Just teach me how to get rich quick like you did."
If you're at work, your kids don't observe anything of what you're doing.

N=1, but my dad has a crazy work ethic and I still ended up being lazy.

audioaxes
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by audioaxes » Thu May 31, 2018 5:32 pm

know a friend who was in a similar situation. Inherited a multi-unit property in LA. His dad did pretty well for himself by living in one of the units and collecting rent from the others. Also needless to say the property exploded in value over the decades. He had nothing much going for him as a college drop out but had a plan that worked really well for him... he cashed out this property and re-invested in a mid-sized Houston complex that was giving a much higher cap rate while having enough money left over to buy himself a pretty nice house cash.
He currently just lives off the returns of this property and fills in idle time by doing a good amount of the various maintenance and repairs needed. From what I seen he's really taken a passion into trying to manage his property as efficiently as possible.

inbox788
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by inbox788 » Thu May 31, 2018 6:03 pm

Sounds like you need to start your own consulting business. You might need some filler jobs while you build up enough background, but that seems right up your alley. Look for gigs that add to your future saleability. You don't need the cash, but high paying gigs are good too. People lose faith in cheap consultants, but don't price yourself out of the market.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/abdullahim ... onsultant/

Slacker
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by Slacker » Thu May 31, 2018 6:15 pm

Any hobbies you could really get deeply involved in? For example, if I were financially independent I'd open a fish store knowing that I likely will only make enough money to sustain the store, but I could really get into spending my days maintaining 100+ different species tanks...or maybe I'd open a boardgame store and try to sell enough snacks and games for the store to pay for itself, meanwhile I get to hold little tournaments and the like and play all the latest games with random people from around the city.

Any cause you've thought about getting involved in? You could work for a non-profit and not care so much about the salary they provide you with so long as you get to have a hand in accomplishing the mission of the organization - as long as it is a mission with meaning/value to you.

Just trying to provide some additional random ideas/thoughts that you may not have already considered. I don't believe you really need a high paying career at this point - just something that engages your interest.

NextMil
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by NextMil » Thu May 31, 2018 6:35 pm

This is the most depressing thread, and not for the reasons you think.

Other than the 40 year old that parked his can on the beach for a year, (no offense, but...) not a one of us is qualified to give you reasonable advice, because we haven’t a clue of what you are facing or feeling since 99.9% are not or have ever been where you are. Congratulations by the way. Good for you.

I don’t have any advice, AND I mean this is in the nicest way possible, I hope you fall flat on your face on something that doesn’t cost you very much money. I would be very nervous that your fantastic success has completely distorted your perspective on how things work. I am not saying you need to dig ditches, or flip Big Macs, because someone of your success level clearly is of higher intelligence, but I would be worried that this short and quick success might turn you into uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite. I would be terrified that with your intelligence level, you settle, and talk about the good old days. That is what is depressing to me. Good luck man, and I would look beyond a forum of grinders to get advice. There has to be someone you can find who has faced the same.
Last edited by NextMil on Thu May 31, 2018 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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knpstr
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by knpstr » Thu May 31, 2018 7:34 pm

NextMil wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 6:35 pm
This is the most depressing thread, and not for the reasons you think.

Other than the 40 year old that parked his can on the beach for a year, (no offense, but...) not a one of us is qualified to give you reasonable advice, because we haven’t a clue of what you are facing of feeling since 99.9% are not or have ever been where you are. Congratulations by the way. Good for you.
In my opinion work is a means to an end. One works to provide for themselves/family. If you are "lucky" or able to work a job you also enjoy, well that is great and you may decide to "work forever" because you enjoy it anyway... it isn't about the money. So when one no longer needs to work for the money, ultimately the "correct" answer is to do what you enjoy (that means paycheck or not). That is different for everyone thus you are correct, his question can't be answered by any of us, we can only give suggestions for him to think about.

Just my 2 cents. :beer
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius

visualguy
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by visualguy » Thu May 31, 2018 8:03 pm

This kind of situation is an exception, but it isn't extremely rare. I call it the "too rich for a regular job, too poor and/or young to retire" situation. There's no general solution - people handle it in different ways. One important thing is to avoid blowing the money away on failing businesses. Sometimes doing nothing is much better than doing something...

EnjoyIt
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by EnjoyIt » Thu May 31, 2018 9:41 pm

investingdad wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:45 am
You have 3.2 million in your early 30s and expenses of 120k a year.

Assuming 15% tax rate, you're pulling 4.4% of portfolio to cover expenses.
This is bad math. Your taxes will oakley be much lower than 15%. This is especially true if much of those assets are in a taxable account. Capital gains is taxed at 0% on the first $77,200. Plus this family has a standard deduction of $24k. That means a family can have 101,200 in capital gains and pay $0. Also not every dollar will be capital gains, some it will be principal and also not taxed. Some of it may be tax loss harvesting as well. No reason why OP has to pay any taxes at all for many years to come.

joshuabell
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by joshuabell » Thu May 31, 2018 9:45 pm

gcc32 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:12 am
joshuabell wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 7:38 pm
I am in a very similar situation, but just a few years older with the luck of saving 80% of my pay and investing over the years. I have 5mm asset (60% in the mkt; rest is in rental and home equity). Our spending is also 100k- 120k per year and a young toddler at home. I am debating what will be next for me. Looking at standard job option with the decent benefit and high 5 figure/ low 6 figure job. I plan to work for another 10 years for the following purposes:
1. to let money grow
2. Role model for kid
3. I have sth to do
4. Healthcare and benefits
5. Flexibility of sending my kid to private school later

Hopefully this can help!!! But sometime I do wonder why I am trying so hard to get a job, but looking for the job you would like to do is a full time job to say the least.

BTW, my spouse also works as well ( makes about 100k)
Thanks. With your wife making $100k and $5mm in assets you seem ridiculously well set up. Have you considered a franchise business or some other low(er) risk lifestyle type business that you could self fund? I feel like that would be a great way to show kids the value of working hard and ownership, while (potentially) not giving yourself a ridiculously stressful life.
I haven’t really explored lower risk lifestyle business options as I have always worked in the corporate set up and I am so used to it. But I realized that I am in a really good financial spot so I can choose not to relocate for jobs, and take some time to find something that actually interests me with reasonable hours. I am going to take august off from 30 -40 hour a week job searching. That is the luxury I allow for myself. But I grow up with hard working installed in my genuine.

Loik098
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by Loik098 » Thu May 31, 2018 9:45 pm

mak1277 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 4:41 pm
Loik098 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 4:11 pm

2) Kids learn primarily by example, not by words. It's hard for young minds to grasp the concepts of working hard, responsibility, time management when you aren't practicing them yourself and are instead blabbing on about them in your pajamas while they are getting ready for school. I imagine my kids would just say, "yeah, yeah, yeah. Just teach me how to get rich quick like you did."
If you're at work, your kids don't observe anything of what you're doing.

N=1, but my dad has a crazy work ethic and I still ended up being lazy.
Sure they do.

They watch how you handle the stress that comes from work, how you prioritize family over work when both compete with one another, when/how you decide you put in extra hours when needed, hear how you develop emotional maturity in dealing with others, and hear how you handle work conflict when you talk about it with your wife at dinner. Work provides endless teaching examples for our children....or at the very least each of the attributes I mentioned in my original post. Sitting on your butt provides little to none of this.

The very fact that you know your Dad has a crazy work ethic only serves to prove my point. You watched, and you learned. Or didn't. Not all children will take the best examples their parents have to offer to heart, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't think about what's best for them and try to model it anyway.

socraticbogler
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by socraticbogler » Thu May 31, 2018 9:55 pm

Hey - I was also in this situation many years ago, and I chose to keep working. Really glad I did, for a bunch of reasons:
- I continue to learn a lot from working.
- I needed more money than I thought (aging parents, more childcare help than I thought)
To my surprise, figuring out how to manage the money responsibly was really stressful:
- Getting comfortable with not having a financial advisor took me a while (this group helped)
- Getting comfortable with financial decisions (estate planning, insurance, tax) also took a while
- I still check my balances in almost every account I have every week, almost every day, and am pretty paranoid about our finances.
Anyway - my advice is: keep working - you're in your 30's - optimize around a combination of learning and earning... you'll have your 40's to optimize around giving back.

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aj76er
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by aj76er » Thu May 31, 2018 10:12 pm

gcc32 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:07 am
aj76er wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 6:15 pm
There's a whole community of financially independent early retired folks with kids. You may want to check out some blogs or get on some of those discussion boards to get some ideas and perspective. The MMM forum is pretty active.
Thank you. Do you have any specific ones that you recommend?

I've read a bunch of MMM and listened to probably a dozen FI podcast episodes. The issue I keep coming back to is almost all of these people are way more "extreme" about FI than I would like to be. I don't want to constantly bargain hunt or spend my life doing manual labor teaching my kids the value of that. I also believe the world is likely to change enough to where I'll probably want to "stay relevant" just in case I have miscalculated and need to earn money or just want to feel somewhat normal.

Maybe I need to spend more time on those forums. There probably are less extreme FI people that I just haven't come into contact with yet.
https://rootofgood.com/
https://www.1500days.com/
https://earlyretirementnow.com/2018/03/ ... rn-family/
https://www.gocurrycracker.com/

Not sure if the lifestyles they lead will match yours or not; but all are FI while having a family and raising kids. There was also a thread on the term "fatFIRE" a while back. It described financially independent lifestyles that didn't require frugality (i.e. "leanFIRE"). You may want to google that term.
"Buy-and-hold, long-term, all-market-index strategies, implemented at rock-bottom cost, are the surest of all routes to the accumulation of wealth" - John C. Bogle

EddyB
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by EddyB » Thu May 31, 2018 10:47 pm

Loik098 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:45 pm
mak1277 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 4:41 pm
Loik098 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 4:11 pm

2) Kids learn primarily by example, not by words. It's hard for young minds to grasp the concepts of working hard, responsibility, time management when you aren't practicing them yourself and are instead blabbing on about them in your pajamas while they are getting ready for school. I imagine my kids would just say, "yeah, yeah, yeah. Just teach me how to get rich quick like you did."
If you're at work, your kids don't observe anything of what you're doing.

N=1, but my dad has a crazy work ethic and I still ended up being lazy.
Sure they do.

They watch how you handle the stress that comes from work, how you prioritize family over work when both compete with one another, when/how you decide you put in extra hours when needed, hear how you develop emotional maturity in dealing with others, and hear how you handle work conflict when you talk about it with your wife at dinner. Work provides endless teaching examples for our children....or at the very least each of the attributes I mentioned in my original post. Sitting on your butt provides little to none of this.
Is sitting on one’s butt the only alternative?

Is taking a job that one doesn’t need the only way to teach the underlying lessons? Is it more “real” than demonstrating those lessons through some other contrivance?

Are they even the best lessons one could teach, or just a good set of lessons to make out of a sub-optimal situation? Do they come at the expense of creating situations that could foster equally valuable lessons?

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by md&pharmacist » Thu May 31, 2018 10:55 pm

45 currently, retirement goal $20-30M NW (depending on market, personal business, real estate performance).

Don't stop working. Find your passion and make it into a successful business. You must have accumulated some good business/networking/money management experience with the first $3M already.

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by Loik098 » Thu May 31, 2018 11:06 pm

EddyB wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 10:47 pm
Loik098 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:45 pm
mak1277 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 4:41 pm
Loik098 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 4:11 pm

2) Kids learn primarily by example, not by words. It's hard for young minds to grasp the concepts of working hard, responsibility, time management when you aren't practicing them yourself and are instead blabbing on about them in your pajamas while they are getting ready for school. I imagine my kids would just say, "yeah, yeah, yeah. Just teach me how to get rich quick like you did."
If you're at work, your kids don't observe anything of what you're doing.

N=1, but my dad has a crazy work ethic and I still ended up being lazy.
Sure they do.

They watch how you handle the stress that comes from work, how you prioritize family over work when both compete with one another, when/how you decide you put in extra hours when needed, hear how you develop emotional maturity in dealing with others, and hear how you handle work conflict when you talk about it with your wife at dinner. Work provides endless teaching examples for our children....or at the very least each of the attributes I mentioned in my original post. Sitting on your butt provides little to none of this.
Is sitting on one’s butt the only alternative?

Is taking a job that one doesn’t need the only way to teach the underlying lessons? Is it more “real” than demonstrating those lessons through some other contrivance?

Are they even the best lessons one could teach, or just a good set of lessons to make out of a sub-optimal situation? Do they come at the expense of creating situations that could foster equally valuable lessons?
Of course not.

But you'll see that I was responding to the specific statement by this poster, "your kids don't observe anything if you're at work," and refuting that. I wasn't addressing the OP's situation or the alternatives you mention (which are, of course, good to consider.) I already did so earlier in the thread.

Shame on me, I guess, for not listing all of the options, but I still think the option of sitting on your butt doesn't accomplish much for you or your children :-)

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by EddyB » Thu May 31, 2018 11:23 pm

Loik098 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:06 pm
EddyB wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 10:47 pm
Loik098 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:45 pm
mak1277 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 4:41 pm
Loik098 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 4:11 pm

2) Kids learn primarily by example, not by words. It's hard for young minds to grasp the concepts of working hard, responsibility, time management when you aren't practicing them yourself and are instead blabbing on about them in your pajamas while they are getting ready for school. I imagine my kids would just say, "yeah, yeah, yeah. Just teach me how to get rich quick like you did."
If you're at work, your kids don't observe anything of what you're doing.

N=1, but my dad has a crazy work ethic and I still ended up being lazy.
Sure they do.

They watch how you handle the stress that comes from work, how you prioritize family over work when both compete with one another, when/how you decide you put in extra hours when needed, hear how you develop emotional maturity in dealing with others, and hear how you handle work conflict when you talk about it with your wife at dinner. Work provides endless teaching examples for our children....or at the very least each of the attributes I mentioned in my original post. Sitting on your butt provides little to none of this.
Is sitting on one’s butt the only alternative?

Is taking a job that one doesn’t need the only way to teach the underlying lessons? Is it more “real” than demonstrating those lessons through some other contrivance?

Are they even the best lessons one could teach, or just a good set of lessons to make out of a sub-optimal situation? Do they come at the expense of creating situations that could foster equally valuable lessons?
Of course not.

But you'll see that I was responding to the specific statement by this poster, "your kids don't observe anything if you're at work," and refuting that. I wasn't addressing the OP's situation or the alternatives you mention (which are, of course, good to consider.) I already did so earlier in the thread.

Shame on me, I guess, for not listing all of the options, but I still think the option of sitting on your butt doesn't accomplish much for you or your children :-)
I’m confident that I’ve got enough work stress, conflict and competing demands under my belt to successfully act out all those scenes around the dinner table for the rest of my life, even if I’m actually going skiing all winter.

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by DavidW » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:09 am

You are in a very unique but not as unique as you think...

Many professional athletes retire about age 33 and have to start a 2nd career. A lot of them end up doing what others on the board suggested, which is work in a field they are passionate about. Maybe research how they have gone onto a 2nd career and go from there.

I agree with other posters that sometimes it hard to work for someone once you have won the game. But if you goal is to make enough to cover expenses, you may have limited choices.

However, if you can live a portion off your nest egg and find a 2nd job that you like, then it doesn't feel like work.

A friend of mine retired from the grocery business but loves fishing. He ended up working at a fishing/outdoor store for a while so he be with fellow fishermen and such....

The great thing is, if you hate your boss, you can quit and find another job. You don't have the pressure of making ends meet.

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by Surplusvalue » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:32 am

I went through something very similar. One piece of advice to add - stay in your current city for the next six months and reconnect with every old friend and coworker. I found the best way to find what I wanted to do was to see what all my friends were doing. And you’ll be amazed how easy it can be to find a job when you tell everyone you’re not looking for one.

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:00 am

This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (career guidance).

Surplusvalue, Welcome!
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by joshuabell » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:49 am

Surplusvalue wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:32 am
I went through something very similar. One piece of advice to add - stay in your current city for the next six months and reconnect with every old friend and coworker. I found the best way to find what I wanted to do was to see what all my friends were doing. And you’ll be amazed how easy it can be to find a job when you tell everyone you’re not looking for one.
This is a great advice!!!

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by mrspock » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:08 am

investingdad wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:45 am
You have 3.2 million in your early 30s and expenses of 120k a year.

Assuming 15% tax rate, you're pulling 4.4% of portfolio to cover expenses.

I'd feel more comfortable with a portfolio of 4.6 million if you're not going to work. Especially at your age. I only say this because we have similar expenses, about 2.5 mil, and are mid 40s and 4.5 is my target.

I think you're close to FIRE, but not quite there yet.

The best part of working a traditional job in your area of expertise for a few years to get you over the hump? No pressure! All the self important senior managers and junior VPs would likely fall over themselves to be in your financial position, which gives you a lot of freedom.
I was waiting for this reply, Bogleheads, the only place on the Internet multi-millionaires can come and be told they don’t have enough to retire comfortably. It makes me chuckle everytime I read a thread like this :D.

That said, heed the advice as quite a few on this forum are in a similar position +\- 5yrs. The amount here isn’t quite low risk FIRE money ($4M+ at 3% withdrawal rate), so you will need to work a bit longer to let the money grow. The trick of course is not letting your expenses grow during this time and above all: stay humble (which helps tremendously at keeping expenses in check).

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by goodenyou » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:49 am

Do something productive. Don't let your marriage fall apart. Continue to earn the respect of your wife and kids. You're too young not to. Also, it will cost you a fortune if you don't. Find purpose.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" | "The best years you have left are the ones you have right now"

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by Glockenspiel » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:53 am

FlyAF wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 3:57 pm
I can't imagine anyone having that level of success at your age ever enjoying going to work for someone else making +/- 100k. There's a lot of soul crushing nonsense that goes on in the corporate world at that level.
I agree with this. A lot of corporate BS and poor work-life balance. With your success, honestly, I'd rather work for a non-profit on an issue I really care about.

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by gcc32 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:10 am

go_mets wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 2:33 pm
market timer wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:04 am
dustinst22 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:55 am
I'm going to guess affiliate marketing.

I'm in a similar boat (if affiliate marketing is your niche). I will probably pivot to real estate once the well is totally dry.
mobi wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 10:17 pm
I've been reading this forum for more than a year and decided to register after reading your post. I'm in the same exact situation. Around the same amount of money, but 40 years old. I did affiliate marketing for almost 10 years. I don't have any advice, I tried living on the beach for 1 year, but it was boring. I have a bunch of free time, and it seems that I can't get myself into a new career or business after I made money online. I loved my career but died slowly. After I realized my business had days counted I moved to a low cost of living area.
Am I the only one who would like to see a discussion of how to make $3mn+ on affiliate marketing?

I suspect those who actually have done it aren't going to share their knowledge.
Notice they only come here to Bogleheads *after*.

And those who do "share" are like those infomercials on TV promising riches galore.


.
My experience is not in affiliate marketing but since I have learned so much from this forum I will try to share something I think could be helpful to those here.

The only limitation I have found when studying the BH philosophy is that most BH followers come away with a mindset that competitive markets are extremely difficult or even impossible to beat and you should not even try, just be passive and enjoy market returns. For investing money you've earned at a job, this is great advice for 99.5%+ of people.

When applied to finding business opportunities or attempting to beat competitive markets as a full time job (as opposed to your spare time), I think this is great advice for at least 90% of people. Maybe more like 95% of people. Most people should just stay the course and try to get really good at a job they hopefully enjoy. But there's still a lot of people out there who if you put time and effort into something that looks impossible from the outside, you can win. Particularly people who have built up enough cushion to where failure is not crushing to them and people who have a strong ability to separate their feelings from reality when deciding whether a course of action is right or wrong.

The problem is you don't know ahead of time. And you probably have to fail a bunch before you find something that works. You have to be willing to accept whatever comes with that. Usually, that's a loss of a ton of time and some money, at a minimum.

My advice to people asking "but how could you make $_____ doing _____" is to think about the big picture of how this stuff works. First, at this point in the game, something as saturated as affiliate marketing is not something anyone who isn't already an expert can likely exploit. It's too late, and while maybe it's interesting how someone could have made a lot of money on it, it's not going to help you (outside of what could be applied to future opportunities).

My advice is to get into a habit of trying to take low risk bets with your time (less so money) on new trends, technologies, and industries. Constantly read about new things that are happening before they make it to mainstream media. So get on message boards, twitter, new products, local meetup groups to find like-minded people, and start actively participating before the masses find out about something. It's not really that hard to get good at something if not that many people are using it -- the key is that you have to find something that eventually does get a lot bigger. Most things that are small stay small, but if you find 10 things that are small and new, you might hit one that becomes big.

I realize this is off topic and I don't want it to come off as lecturing or anything, just trying to share a mindset that has helped me so far. I have successfully found two different niche's that have both earned me well into 7 figures income while in my 20's and 30's. And I realize that luck plays a huge role, particularly in the first one for me. But once you see certain patterns develop it is easier to know to "go for something" before it gets big.

And ironically I should probably just take my own advice and try to find the next thing, but admittedly it is hard and most importantly time-consuming. I'm not sure the risk / reward makes as much sense once you have a certain amount of money and a family to take care of. The post about "too rich for a normal job and not enough money to retire really resonated with me." It is what it is.

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by gcc32 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:11 am

Surplusvalue wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:32 am
I went through something very similar. One piece of advice to add - stay in your current city for the next six months and reconnect with every old friend and coworker. I found the best way to find what I wanted to do was to see what all my friends were doing. And you’ll be amazed how easy it can be to find a job when you tell everyone you’re not looking for one.
Great advice. Thank you.

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by gcc32 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:18 am

NextMil wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 6:35 pm
This is the most depressing thread, and not for the reasons you think.

Other than the 40 year old that parked his can on the beach for a year, (no offense, but...) not a one of us is qualified to give you reasonable advice, because we haven’t a clue of what you are facing or feeling since 99.9% are not or have ever been where you are. Congratulations by the way. Good for you.

I don’t have any advice, AND I mean this is in the nicest way possible, I hope you fall flat on your face on something that doesn’t cost you very much money. I would be very nervous that your fantastic success has completely distorted your perspective on how things work. I am not saying you need to dig ditches, or flip Big Macs, because someone of your success level clearly is of higher intelligence, but I would be worried that this short and quick success might turn you into uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite. I would be terrified that with your intelligence level, you settle, and talk about the good old days. That is what is depressing to me. Good luck man, and I would look beyond a forum of grinders to get advice. There has to be someone you can find who has faced the same.
One thing I would like to add is I have had one tremendous failure. I lost about 40% of my net worth in my mid 20's chasing an opportunity that was clearly a good opportunity but I took on too much personal financial risk and for various reasons it just didn't work out. It was stupid to do it the way I did it. But I'm glad I did because I learned not to be stupid in that way again (took a couple of years for that to really sink in).

I have an appreciation for how hard it is to find good opportunities. That's part of why I am really considering getting an everyday job even though I think I do have a knack for finding opportunity myself. So I am not going to go broke doing something stupid, just trying to keep my options open and make a good decision. It scares and motivates me greatly thinking about being some has been guy that got lucky once or twice when he was young and wasted a great head start on life, I really don't want that to be me.

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by randomguy » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:21 am

gcc32 wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 4:15 pm
tyrion wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 3:57 pm
What's your plan for health care?
My wife and kid will have health insurance through her former employer for almost another 6 months or so. After that she can go on the insurance plan I have and will have as long as I continue part-time with my former career (I'm still working part time, not as successfully as in the past but still making some money). Putting them on the plan will be $1k/mo, and I budget $1500/mo when I completely quit.

This is obviously a big issue long term.
Health care is a nonissue these days. You write a check and have it. You can afford the check. it isn't the early 00s where you ran a significant risk of not being able to buy it and any reasonable price (think 60k+/year insurance premiums).

Other people have summed it up. You don't need a job. You want a job. Find something you like doing and do it. If it only makes 40-50k/year who cares. If you want to work in corporate america for a couple years, go for it. It is an interesting experience.

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by stoptothink » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:22 am

goodenyou wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:49 am
Do something productive. Don't let your marriage fall apart. Continue to earn the respect of your wife and kids. You're too young not to. Also, it will cost you a fortune if you don't. Find purpose.
I just watched a colleague go through a messy divorce with a man who epitomizes this. Guy basically fell on a lottery ticket, answered an ad for part-time HR help in the newspaper. Turned out to be a start-up with 6 employees. He was 26 at the time, a college drop out who was just married (to my colleague) and just needed to feed his family. 15yrs later the company went public and he is suddenly worth $20M, but really has no professional skills, hobbies, and is honestly kind of a dunce. He immediately retired, couldn't find anything to do, so he got into some interesting trouble out of sheer boredom. Guy is a mess now and his family destroyed.

I don't even know what to say, but heed Goodenyou's advice.

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by DoctorE » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:40 pm

You would be surprised just how many successful under-40 entrepreneurs are in a similar situation. The group I network with all made their money through some sort of one-time opportunity where having the skills, being in the right place at the right time and working hard for a decade led to 7 and 8 figure successes. I'm not talking about 'Paypal' type success sorties you read in the Business section that went on and started 10 other highly successful companies. These guys are the other 99% of entrepreneurs: some had college education, no or very limited professional 'job experience, worked hard, saved a lot and ended up being squeezed out of their niche or they sold. After, some started new business in a similar field, others got into some real estate projects and others started cafés. While most have dabbled successfully and unsuccessfully with other businesses none came close to the passion and success of their initial venture. The theme is common, when the need for money is gone, the passion out of a 16 hour grind is gone. The ones that are happiest have some sort of non financial passion going on in their life ie. traveling around the world for 'blogging', racing cars, making documentaries, learning a complex lifetime competitive sport, training for triathlons and so on.

The mid 7-figure is a tricky amount at your age because it's almost enough to stop working but "not enough" to do everything you might want, as long as you want. I think firstly you have to consider if you can live on $75k-$100k/yr in today's money before tax 'for the rest of your life'. If that's a no, then you have to either get a job or start a new business. Some people suggested going to school, however learning anything significant that would make an impact on your job and business prospects would require a lot of money, time and desire from you. I don't know many 7 figure entrepreneurs who worked on their own for more that 10 years willing to take orders from a boss. If you start a new business, I would advise to stay as close as possible to the field and skill-set you are in. I would not rush into the decision but wait for an opportunity. Move to a MCOL/LCOL home base, travel extensively, avoid hedonistic adaptation, meet with your friends/ex-colleagues and stay on top of your previous business/skill-set.

One caveat: fast forward 10-15y, suppose you started a successful business, sold it and now have multiplied your current networth 4-fold. Don't be surprised if you have the desire to come back and post about the same dilemma you posted now.

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by Xrayman69 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:03 pm

2.9m vfiax with 2% yield = 58k year in dividends.

Substitute teacher or volunteer activities to test waters for areas in which to develop passion. If can develop cash flow of 50k annually or with wife working part time and you working part time your nearly to your needs annually without touching principle.

My BIG concern is for health care and insurance. 1 event can cost 2.9M ie needing an organ transplant for any member of the family without insurance.

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by 526297 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:37 pm

I think you are cutting your wife short here..saying she will never earn anything significant just because she wants to stay home with the kids. I have four, stay home, and love inventing new ways to earn money, so that's just not always true.

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by bltn » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:12 am

I would get the temporary job through networking while I decide what path I would like to pursue next. I wouldn t need or want to be out of work while I evaluate my opportunities.
Years ago, I also thought about getting into a franchise business as a sideline to my regular job. While I couldn t leave my primary job for a full tme career with a franchise business, in retrospect, I might have been more successful financially.
I still think that is an intriguing possibility with relatively little risk if you are acceoted.

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by financeguy88 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:56 am

Interesting post, I can relate somewhat as I'm the exact same age, and married with no kids but one on the way. Also I got my money though a market-related career but don't have much job security or great visibility into replicating anything close to my past earnings going forward. Wife works but doesn't earn a material amount vs. expenses. My assets are higher than yours but my expenses are also higher so not at the level where we could keep the same life in the same place (high cost of living area) if the well runs dry, so to speak with my job. I have the same thoughts about what I'll do as I don't have many skills outside of what I do now, too young to just check out and retire, and potentially too poor -- especially if I decide down the line that I want to send my kids to private school / private college or if I face some investment mishap.

Have you thought about joining a start-up company as an early employee? Not sure where you live, but these companies for certain roles are just looking for someone intelligent, ambitious, hard-working with no specific technical skill or background. This way you can earn a base salary to cover some of your expenses and also have potential equity upside. Also you'll get to work with other smart people and potentially network and learn something new, so that even if that doesn't work out you can move on to the next thing. It is a middle ground between going to a corporate-type job at the lower end of the ladder and having the stress and financial commitment of starting your own company.

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by lostdog » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:00 am

I'll make this short and simple. Semi-retire.

Move to LCOL area close to family and friends, pick a part time gig you're passionate about. You'll have a balance of both worlds. No stress, still make money with something you enjoy doing and spending more time with your wife and kid. Balance.

Congratulations, you've won the game.
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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by lostdog » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:10 am

Glockenspiel wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:53 am
FlyAF wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 3:57 pm
I can't imagine anyone having that level of success at your age ever enjoying going to work for someone else making +/- 100k. There's a lot of soul crushing nonsense that goes on in the corporate world at that level.
I agree with this. A lot of corporate BS and poor work-life balance. With your success, honestly, I'd rather work for a non-profit on an issue I really care about.
I agree with this 100%. It took tradgedy in my life of getting extremely sick and bed ridden for a few years to finally figure it out we had "enough" to leave the corporate culture behind. I am 100% fully recovered and loving life. Unless you really love your job, the corporate culture will suck the soul from you.
100% Vanguard Total World Equity Index. Simplicity 100%.

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Re: Have $3m at 33, "approach to career" advice needed

Post by smectym » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:27 am

gcc32, go to much-maligned law school. That’s what I did at your age and it worked. Sounds like your “Hi, I’m Jay Gatsby” CV will resonate at many schools. Study hard for and take the LSAT. If you haven’t given up on a traditional career path altogether, don’t reflexively dismiss this option.

Smectym

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