Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

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Jeff Albertson
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Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by Jeff Albertson » Fri May 18, 2018 5:57 pm

This Barron's cover story wasn't locked when I accessed it.
"Jack Bogle’s Battle"
https://www.barrons.com/articles/jack-b ... 1526674385
As you would expect, a lot of really dumb questions, like "Have you created a monster with index funds?"

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CollegePrudens
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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by CollegePrudens » Fri May 18, 2018 10:01 pm

On the plus side, the article (very briefly) mentions "the bogleheads".
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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by Stormbringer » Sat May 19, 2018 8:25 am

I don't get the impression that the author cares for Bogle very much. On Warren Buffett's suggestion that a statue of Bogle be erected:
There is, in fact, already a bronze statue of Bogle, striking a confident, commanding pose, outside Vanguard’s headquarters in Malvern, Pa., not far from Valley Forge. Inside, there’s an equally arrogant, ironic portrait of a hale Bogle as Lord Nelson, the great British naval officer.
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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by keinodoggy » Sat May 19, 2018 8:27 am

Direct link....no subscription needed.

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by abuss368 » Sat May 19, 2018 8:31 am

Is it locked?
John C. Bogle: "You simply do not need to put your money into 8 different mutual funds!" | | Disclosure: Three Fund Portfolio + U.S. & International REITs

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by oldzey » Sat May 19, 2018 8:40 am

abuss368 wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 8:31 am
Is it locked?
I got to it by Googling "Jack Bogle’s Battle." (with quotes)
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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by matjen » Sat May 19, 2018 8:59 am

Prior URLs didn't work for me but this one does.

http://www.cetusnews.com/business/Jack- ... eWaAz.html

Bogle's Current Portfolio:
What’s in your portfolio?

I have two portfolios. My retirement portfolio, my biggest, is 60/40 equities, largely index funds, like Vanguard Total Stock Market Index [ticker: VTSMX]. I have a substantial holding of Vanguard Wellington [VWELX] and PrimeCap funds. I have been a corporate director and got stock options that happened to have done very well. I keep them for old times’ sake and because they have a lot of appreciation. In my personal account, I own 40% equities and 60% bonds. I own John Bogle Jr.’s fund, Bogle Investment Management Small Cap Growth [BOGIX], and a particular favorite is Vanguard Tax-Managed Growth and Income [VTGIX].
Cliff Asness tweeted his thoughts on Bogle. :D

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by siamond » Sat May 19, 2018 9:57 am

For whatever reason, I keep receiving paper copies of Barron's although I never subscribed... Usually, it goes straight in the recycling can, but this time, I read an article from beginning to end (yes, the one about Bogle, of course). Jack's picture is on the cover, by the way, which made me smile (there is a certain irony here!).

The article started pretty poorly, with a badly constructed list of criticisms against index funds. But then the article became quite better, when telling the story of Jack Bogle. I have the utmost respect for our mentor, but he's clearly a complicated individual with some rough edges, and at the end, he's a (remarkable) human being with his foils, not a God. I think the article did a surprisingly decent job (that is, for a Barron's article!) of showing a balanced and yet respectful view of Jack, and I learned a few interesting tidbits.

My advice: read it with an open mind, till the end.

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"Jack Bogle’s Battle." Barron's

Post by Taylor Larimore » Sat May 19, 2018 12:09 pm

Bogleheads:

Our mentor, Jack Bogle, is on the cover of this week's Barron's. These are my favorite quotes:
"More than 40 years ago, the founder of Vanguard Group and the inventor of the index fund forever changed the way Americans would invest and, quite possibly, forever changed how the market functions."

"The index fund created a shrewder, more informed universe of investors who shopped for lower fees, saved regularly, and pushed the industry to cut costs and improve education."

"The man behind this revolution is a cantankerous heart transplant survivor, who has railed against the fund industry and been a thorn in the side of Vanguard, the firm that he founded."

"But on the topic of the market and the fund industry the old vigor is evident, and Bogle maintains a surprisingly busy schedule of researching, writing, and speaking."

"There is now a riot of indexing—there are more than 5,000 indexes and just 3,485 stocks."

"The research shows that from 2005 to 2017, the average investor return from “Traditional Index Funds” was 8.4%. For actively managed funds, it was 7.2%. For ETFs, it was 5.5%."

"Bogle was born in 1929 to a family that founded American Can, just a few months before the great stock market crash wiped out their fortune. He attended Princeton on a scholarship."

"Bogle started a new firm, which would become Vanguard Group. He structured it as a mutual company, which is owned by the fund shareholders, instantly reducing investor costs and dismantling conflicts of interest."

"Bogle suffered his first heart attack at the age of 31, and had five more before he was diagnosed with an erratic heartbeat."

"Last year, the Investment Company Institute, the industry trade group, declined his request to speak at its annual membership meeting. “Everyone in the industry is thinking about next quarter’s numbers and how to make money in a hurry,” recalls Don Phillips of Morningstar."

"He is a writer of marvelous clarity, considerable elegance, and humor."

"He began swapping drafts with his friend Asness, who becomes misty-eyed talking about Bogle. Says Asness: “The index fund in general and Vanguard’s application of it specifically has been the best investor welfare innovation in the past 50 years."

"The longer people get aware of the cost and the longer they figure out how long they’re going to be investing, the more this change to an indexing revolution is going to increase, he says.”

"Bogle has legions of other fans. This year, the Bogleheads organization turned 20 years old."

"The industry has surely improved: Investor outcomes are better, costs are lower, information is better, thanks in part to Bogle."

"The longer people are aware of cost and the sooner they figure out how long they are going to be investing, the more the indexing revolution will increase."

"My retirement portfolio, my biggest, is 60/40 equities, largely index funds, like Vanguard Total Stock Market Index [ticker: VTSMX]."

"I’ve never had piles of friends, just a few good friends. I fell into a place [in life] that seemed to require my every asset and ignore my every liability. Getting an extra 22 years of life (after my heart transplant) is by no means an inconsequential part of it."
Thank you, Barron's

This link to the entire article may work: http://www.cetusnews.com/business/Jack- ... eWaAz.html

Best wishes
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by LadyGeek » Sat May 19, 2018 12:29 pm

^^^ I merged Taylor Larimore's post into here.
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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by LadyGeek » Sat May 19, 2018 12:34 pm

The post is not locked if you access it from facebook. No facebook account is needed. How? See this post: Re: The Wall Street Journal to close Google loophole entirely

It works because Barrons is a Wall Street Journal publication. Same company, same software.
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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by bondsr4me » Sat May 19, 2018 12:39 pm

Great article...read it this morning (Barron's subscriber) with my breakfast/morning coffee.

Jack has unquestionably done more for individual investors than anyone else.
He's on my Mt. Rushmore of Investing right along with Warren B., Charlies M. and Ben G.

Long live Jack Bogle and long live Vanguard and Bogleheads.org.

Have a great weekend,

Don

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by talzara » Sat May 19, 2018 1:34 pm

The article mentions that Jack Bogle tried to buy IBM's mutual funds:
At Vanguard, Bogle tried to buy International Business Machines’ mutual fund business but lost out to Fleet Financial.
Vanguard even launched a proxy fight:
Vanguard and Fleet are dueling to acquire the $650 million mutual fund group that the International Business Machines Corporation wants to sell. Fleet has the upper hand, as I.B.M. has already agreed to sell Fleet its five mutual funds, which are managed by a subsidiary of the IBM Credit Corporation, for about $14 million. ... "We went to I.B.M. with a proposal worth $10 million in savings over 10 years to the shareholders of I.B.M.'s mutual funds," Mr. Duffield said. "We don't plan to revise our bid."

In accordance with Federal securities laws, I.B.M. shareholders will ultimately decide whether Fleet's bid is fair, said Robert Plaze, an assistant director in the S.E.C.'s investment management division. "There's going to be a shareholder vote," he said.

https://www.nytimes.com/1994/05/13/busi ... -help.html
A mutual fund is supposed to be mutual. The shareholders are supposed to own the fund and control its destiny. However, shareholders rarely vote against management. In 1994, the shareholders chose to give IBM $14 million instead of saving themselves $10 million over 10 years.

The creation of Vanguard in 1974 is one of the few times that shareholders voted against management. It only succeeded because a disgruntled ex-employee was leading the shareholder revolt.

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by cfs » Sat May 19, 2018 7:38 pm

"and a particular favorite is Vanguard Tax-Managed Growth and Income [VTGIX]."

This is not right, there is not such a fund at Vanguard any longer and the symbol belongs to a fund from a different family. I believe one of his favorites is the Vanguard Tax-Managed Balanced Fund (VTMFX). Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Gracias por leer / cfs
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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by triceratop » Sat May 19, 2018 7:46 pm

Bogle's criticisms of ETFs as an investment vehicle continue to make no sense to me. They seem to be full of lazy assumptions and never have any recognition that plenty of investors use them for long-term investing. Reading his comments in Barron's would make one think ETFs will cause someone to frequently trade and miss returns rather than the converse being more likely: those who want to trade seek a vehicle which allows them to do so. In any case, the problem is the behavior, not the vehicle in my humble opinion.
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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by Taylor Larimore » Sat May 19, 2018 11:26 pm

In any case, the problem is the behavior, not the vehicle in my humble opinion.
triceratop:

Mr. Bogle feels the same. He has said that ETFs held long-term are perfectly acceptable.

Best wishes.
Taylor
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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by triceratop » Sun May 20, 2018 12:25 am

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 11:26 pm
In any case, the problem is the behavior, not the vehicle in my humble opinion.
triceratop:

Mr. Bogle feels the same. He has said that ETFs held long-term are perfectly acceptable.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Taylor, that may well be, but it is distinctly not the impression one gets from reading that article.
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by Always passive » Sun May 20, 2018 12:39 am

triceratop wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 12:25 am
Taylor Larimore wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 11:26 pm
In any case, the problem is the behavior, not the vehicle in my humble opinion.
triceratop:

Mr. Bogle feels the same. He has said that ETFs held long-term are perfectly acceptable.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Taylor, that may well be, but it is distinctly not the impression one gets from reading that article.
That is my impression too. Bogle has been negative on ETFs for as long as I remember. I think that his view is that they are mainly used for speculative investing. However, many use ETFs with long term investing in mind. Sometimes they are cheaper than the equivalent mutual funds, and in my case as a US citizen living overseas, because that is the only allowable way that I have to invest in the US. Fidelity would not let me buy mutual funds.
Last edited by Always passive on Sun May 20, 2018 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by jalbert » Sun May 20, 2018 12:49 am

ETFs have made index fund investing more tax efficient. Even if you prefer Vanguard mutual funds, having ETF shares classes of the funds has enabled Vanguard to avoid having to distribute capital gains. While I’ve not heard Mr. Bogle discuss this point, I’m fairly certain he is well aware of it.

ETFs also give short-term traders a vehicle for doing their thing without adverse consequences to buy-and-hold investors who might hold either mutual fund or ETF shares. I have heard Mr. Bogle discuss this point on videos of his interviews.
Last edited by jalbert on Sun May 20, 2018 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by evestor » Sun May 20, 2018 12:57 am

jalbert wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 12:49 am
ETFs have made index fund investing more tax efficient. Even if you prefer Vanguard mutual funds, having ETF shares classes of the funds has enabled Vanguard to avoid having to distribute capital gains. While I’ve not heard Mr. Bogle discuss this point, I’m fairly certain he is well aware of it.
How does this work exactly? How did ETFs prevent the underlying funds from having to do cap gains distributions? Sorry if this is a silly question, I'm not familiar with this detail.
Thx.
Last edited by evestor on Sun May 20, 2018 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by jalbert » Sun May 20, 2018 1:32 am

At Vanguard, ETFs are associated with index funds and the ETFs, Admiral shares, investor-class shares, and any institutional share classes that might exist for a fund are all different share classes of the same fund.

One example of how that can be used to avoid capital gain distributions is that fund managers can create new ETF shares using the stock shares with the lowest cost basis, and mutual fund share withdrawals are processed using the highest cost basis shares when shares need to be sold for liquidity.

If the demand for new ETF shares is a large enough percentage of the inflows of new cash to the fund, this may be sufficient to avoid the need to distribute capital gains. There may be other strategies in play as well such as balancing the realization of capital losses with capital gains, although this is a general technique, not ETF-specific.
Risk is not a guarantor of return.

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by mlebuf » Sun May 20, 2018 3:14 am

I take exception with this paragraph in the article:

Thus began Bogle 2.0: Author, speaker, and champion of the individual investor. At Vanguard, he maintained an office with an analyst and an assistant. He often invited employees to eat with him at the cafeteria. Yet it was quite a comedown for somebody with a large ego, used to adulation. Plain-spoken, not averse to a fight, and eager to claim the limelight once more, he addressed investor groups frequently, detailing the sins of the profit-hungry fund industry.

My sister-in-law worked for Vanguard many years ago when Mr. Bogle was heading the ship. I remember her telling me that he would regularly visit the company cafeteria and have lunch with the crew when he was Chairman. Describing him as someone with a large ego who was used to adulation seems nothing like the Jack Bogle that I had the pleasure of meeting on several occasions. To the contrary, I always found him to be humble, approachable and focused on helping others. He is the epitome of a servant leader.
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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by Taylor Larimore » Sun May 20, 2018 11:14 am

Bogleheads:

I agree with Mlebuf, the co-author of my first book. I have known Jack Bogle personally for many years. I never once heard him talk about the fantastic growth of Vanguard, the number of employee, the number of funds he started, or even the huge number of investors he has helped.

One night having dinner (cooked by his wife, Eve), I told Jack that his crusade "to give ordinary investors a fair shake" was similar to someone who throws a stone into the water and the ripples go on forever. He said, "please change the subject."

Jack Bogle wears a 16 dollar watch, drives an old car, has a modest home and has given
Vanguard to its investors (which he almost never mentions).

Jack Bogle is the most humble man I ever met.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Last edited by Taylor Larimore on Sun May 20, 2018 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by drk » Sun May 20, 2018 11:21 am

cfs wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 7:38 pm
"and a particular favorite is Vanguard Tax-Managed Growth and Income [VTGIX]."

This is not right, there is not such a fund at Vanguard any longer and the symbol belongs to a fund from a different family. I believe one of his favorites is the Vanguard Tax-Managed Balanced Fund (VTMFX). Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Gracias por leer / cfs
I suspect the intended target was VGIAX.

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by Rick Ferri » Sun May 20, 2018 11:35 am

Jack Bogle's Battle? What battle. The war is over. Index investing won. The arguments brought up against indexing are the same rehash we heard 20 years ago; too much money going into too few stocks, too much in index funds is dangerous, blah, blah, blah. This is not news!

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by cfs » Sun May 20, 2018 11:37 am

drk wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:21 am
cfs wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 7:38 pm
"and a particular favorite is Vanguard Tax-Managed Growth and Income [VTGIX]."

This is not right, there is not such a fund at Vanguard any longer and the symbol belongs to a fund from a different family. I believe one of his favorites is the Vanguard Tax-Managed Balanced Fund (VTMFX). Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Gracias por leer / cfs
I suspect the intended target was VGIAX.
Thank you, Vanguard Growth and Income Fund Admiral Shares (VGIAX) could be the one, too bad Barrons' writer made a mistake on this part (I don't want to "grade" the whole article). Good luck, y gracias por leer ~cfs~
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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by Fallible » Sun May 20, 2018 11:43 am

triceratop wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 12:25 am
Taylor Larimore wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 11:26 pm
In any case, the problem is the behavior, not the vehicle in my humble opinion.
triceratop:

Mr. Bogle feels the same. He has said that ETFs held long-term are perfectly acceptable.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Taylor, that may well be, but it is distinctly not the impression one gets from reading that article.
This article, IMO, oozes active-management bias, and some references to Jack come close to snarky, whether intended as such or not. Taylor is right to point out what Jack has said many times, that his main concern about ETFs is that they can encourage excessive trading, the short term over the long term.
Bogleheads® wiki | Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by drk » Sun May 20, 2018 11:45 am

cfs wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:37 am
drk wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:21 am
cfs wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 7:38 pm
"and a particular favorite is Vanguard Tax-Managed Growth and Income [VTGIX]."

This is not right, there is not such a fund at Vanguard any longer and the symbol belongs to a fund from a different family. I believe one of his favorites is the Vanguard Tax-Managed Balanced Fund (VTMFX). Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Gracias por leer / cfs
I suspect the intended target was VGIAX.
Thank you, Vanguard Growth and Income Fund Admiral Shares (VGIAX) could be the one, too bad Barrons' writer made a mistake on this part (I don't want to "grade" the whole article). Good luck, y gracias por leer ~cfs~
:oops: I completely glossed over the "Tax-Managed" part. I found this letter informing VTGIX owners that it would be reorganized into Vanguard 500 Index in 2014. Maybe Mr. Bogle just follows his own advice and hasn't checked on it in a while.

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by drk » Sun May 20, 2018 11:47 am

Fallible wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:43 am
This article, IMO, oozes active-management bias, and some references to Jack come close to snarky, whether intended as such or not. Taylor is right to point out what Jack has said many times, that his main concern about ETFs is that they can encourage excessive trading, the short term over the long term.
Mr. Bogle remains a believer in active management. His concern has always been with its associated costs.

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by Fallible » Sun May 20, 2018 12:44 pm

drk wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:47 am
Fallible wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:43 am
This article, IMO, oozes active-management bias, and some references to Jack come close to snarky, whether intended as such or not. Taylor is right to point out what Jack has said many times, that his main concern about ETFs is that they can encourage excessive trading, the short term over the long term.
Mr. Bogle remains a believer in active management. His concern has always been with its associated costs.
Yes, costs are his main concen about active management, although he has expressed other concerns. But I was referring to the article's approach to Jack and indexing.
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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by DonnyDont » Mon May 21, 2018 1:00 pm

Of the three actively managed funds that Bogle mentions (excluding VTGIX which no longer exists in original form), here's how they have performed vs S&P 500:

Vanguard Wellington (Admiral) VWENX, inception 5/14/2001
- Annual equivalent return of 7.62% vs 6.77% for SPX

Vanguard PRIMECAP Fund (Admiral) VPMAX, inception 11/12/2001
- Annual equivalent return 10.80% vs 7.66% for SPX

Bogle Small Cap Growth Fund BOGIX, inception 10/1/1999
- Annual equivalent return of 11.60% vs 6.12% return for SPX

This is somewhat disheartening to see 3 market-beating actively managed funds held by someone who said "The odds of outpacing an all-market index fund are, well, terrible."

Do you think Bogle was cherry-picking, marketing, both, neither?

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by bayview » Mon May 21, 2018 8:55 pm

drk wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:45 am
cfs wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:37 am
drk wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:21 am
cfs wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 7:38 pm
"and a particular favorite is Vanguard Tax-Managed Growth and Income [VTGIX]."

This is not right, there is not such a fund at Vanguard any longer and the symbol belongs to a fund from a different family. I believe one of his favorites is the Vanguard Tax-Managed Balanced Fund (VTMFX). Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Gracias por leer / cfs
I suspect the intended target was VGIAX.
Thank you, Vanguard Growth and Income Fund Admiral Shares (VGIAX) could be the one, too bad Barrons' writer made a mistake on this part (I don't want to "grade" the whole article). Good luck, y gracias por leer ~cfs~
:oops: I completely glossed over the "Tax-Managed" part. I found this letter informing VTGIX owners that it would be reorganized into Vanguard 500 Index in 2014. Maybe Mr. Bogle just follows his own advice and hasn't checked on it in a while.
Don’t peek!! :D

Meanwhile, as to ETFs, I’d like to avoid them, but DH and I have probable inheritances coming our ways in the next 5 or so years. Unless Vanguard pulls up its IT and CS socks in the interim, we may be investing them elsewhere in VG ETFs. It might be the only practical way to participate in Vanguard funds at the Admiral fee level. So we wouldn’t buy them because they were ETFs, but instead in spite of the fact that they were ETFs. Go figure.

We’d rather be at VG, but they’re gonna have to convince us...
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by DonnyDont » Tue May 22, 2018 1:31 pm

bayview wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 8:55 pm
drk wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:45 am
cfs wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:37 am
drk wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:21 am
cfs wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 7:38 pm
"and a particular favorite is Vanguard Tax-Managed Growth and Income [VTGIX]."

This is not right, there is not such a fund at Vanguard any longer and the symbol belongs to a fund from a different family. I believe one of his favorites is the Vanguard Tax-Managed Balanced Fund (VTMFX). Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Gracias por leer / cfs
I suspect the intended target was VGIAX.
Thank you, Vanguard Growth and Income Fund Admiral Shares (VGIAX) could be the one, too bad Barrons' writer made a mistake on this part (I don't want to "grade" the whole article). Good luck, y gracias por leer ~cfs~
:oops: I completely glossed over the "Tax-Managed" part. I found this letter informing VTGIX owners that it would be reorganized into Vanguard 500 Index in 2014. Maybe Mr. Bogle just follows his own advice and hasn't checked on it in a while.
Don’t peek!! :D

Meanwhile, as to ETFs, I’d like to avoid them, but DH and I have probable inheritances coming our ways in the next 5 or so years. Unless Vanguard pulls up its IT and CS socks in the interim, we may be investing them elsewhere in VG ETFs. It might be the only practical way to participate in Vanguard funds at the Admiral fee level. So we wouldn’t buy them because they were ETFs, but instead in spite of the fact that they were ETFs. Go figure.

We’d rather be at VG, but they’re gonna have to convince us...
Pardon my ignorance, but when you say "pulls up its IT and CS socks" what are you referring to? Also a general question, looks like general Vanguard mutual funds and comparable ETFs have same costs, same historical performance - why are ETFs inferior?

bondsr4me
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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by bondsr4me » Tue May 22, 2018 1:48 pm

DonnyDont wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 1:31 pm
bayview wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 8:55 pm
drk wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:45 am
cfs wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:37 am
drk wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:21 am


I suspect the intended target was VGIAX.
Thank you, Vanguard Growth and Income Fund Admiral Shares (VGIAX) could be the one, too bad Barrons' writer made a mistake on this part (I don't want to "grade" the whole article). Good luck, y gracias por leer ~cfs~
:oops: I completely glossed over the "Tax-Managed" part. I found this letter informing VTGIX owners that it would be reorganized into Vanguard 500 Index in 2014. Maybe Mr. Bogle just follows his own advice and hasn't checked on it in a while.
Don’t peek!! :D

Meanwhile, as to ETFs, I’d like to avoid them, but DH and I have probable inheritances coming our ways in the next 5 or so years. Unless Vanguard pulls up its IT and CS socks in the interim, we may be investing them elsewhere in VG ETFs. It might be the only practical way to participate in Vanguard funds at the Admiral fee level. So we wouldn’t buy them because they were ETFs, but instead in spite of the fact that they were ETFs. Go figure.

We’d rather be at VG, but they’re gonna have to convince us...
Pardon my ignorance, but when you say "pulls up its IT and CS socks" what are you referring to? Also a general question, looks like general Vanguard mutual funds and comparable ETFs have same costs, same historical performance - why are ETFs inferior?
"pulls up its IT and CS socks"...a cliche'....kinda like "pull up your bootstraps"....it just means be more responsible and accountable.
I am sure (without any evidence whatsoever) that "under the hood" (another cliche') VG is addressing it's IT and CS issues....we not gonna see front page news articles about that's all.

ETF's inferior...I don't know why...ETF's of some funds are cheaper than the "investor class" shares of some funds as I recall.

I do think, again no evidence other than personal habits, EFT's can unintendedly encourage trading whereas mutual fund shares don't (you can only trade mutual funds at the end of day pricing; not so with ETF's) AFAIAC.

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by bayview » Tue May 22, 2018 3:27 pm

“Pull up your socks” means to stop slouching around and get going.

IT and CS are information technology and customer service, of course.

If VG would convey a bit of a sense of urgency, it would be reassuring.
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri

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abuss368
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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by abuss368 » Tue May 22, 2018 6:57 pm

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:14 am
Bogleheads:

I agree with Mlebuf, the co-author of my first book. I have known Jack Bogle personally for many years. I never once heard him talk about the fantastic growth of Vanguard, the number of employee, the number of funds he started, or even the huge number of investors he has helped.

One night having dinner (cooked by his wife, Eve), I told Jack that his crusade "to give ordinary investors a fair shake" was similar to someone who throws a stone into the water and the ripples go on forever. He said, "please change the subject."

Jack Bogle wears a 16 dollar watch, drives an old car, has a modest home and has given
Vanguard to its investors (which he almost never mentions).

Jack Bogle is the most humble man I ever met.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Hi Taylor -

That is an incredible story and I wanted to thank you for sharing.

Best.
John C. Bogle: "You simply do not need to put your money into 8 different mutual funds!" | | Disclosure: Three Fund Portfolio + U.S. & International REITs

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CollegePrudens
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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by CollegePrudens » Tue May 22, 2018 10:59 pm

I don't know Jack Bogle personally (would love to meet him some day). However I have read and heard many of his interviews. He comes across as
  • Genuinely caring for rank-and-file vanguard employees and as an advocate for small investors (like many of us on this forum)
  • Competitive against other investment and finance thought leaders and researchers
  • Aggressive against the (non-boglehead) machinery of investing
I can see how he may appear to be not-so-humble to some. But I can't imagine him come across that way in person when he knows that one is a regular person (aka small investor).
Taylor Larimore wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:14 am
Bogleheads:

I agree with Mlebuf, the co-author of my first book. I have known Jack Bogle personally for many years. I never once heard him talk about the fantastic growth of Vanguard, the number of employee, the number of funds he started, or even the huge number of investors he has helped.

One night having dinner (cooked by his wife, Eve), I told Jack that his crusade "to give ordinary investors a fair shake" was similar to someone who throws a stone into the water and the ripples go on forever. He said, "please change the subject."

Jack Bogle wears a 16 dollar watch, drives an old car, has a modest home and has given
Vanguard to its investors (which he almost never mentions).

Jack Bogle is the most humble man I ever met.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Live as if you were to die tomorrow; learn as if you were to live forever - Gandhi

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patrick013
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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by patrick013 » Thu May 24, 2018 5:09 pm

A few ideas. 500 index strips were available on certain
exchanges before Bogle saw their light and made the general
public much more aware of and made the creation of actual
wide spread 500 index mutual funds widely available. So
like other products and ideas great credit is due where great
credit is due.

Market dynamics. Well mutual fund trades account for a great
per cent of daily market trade volume so a static market doesn't
seem to exist, except that mutual fund trade prices could be
more competitive, instead of market orders. Why not.

ETF's are changing owners quite frequently, but ER's are not
rising. So ETF turnover is bad but I don't get the point.

So yeah, he's marketing mutual funds but everybody is somewhat
better off while he is doing it. His newest book is probably
great about market portfolios and the like.

Probably reread the Barron's article tomorrow.
age in bonds, buy-and-hold, 10 year business cycle

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Re: Bogle featured in Barrons cover story

Post by Clever_Username » Thu May 24, 2018 6:11 pm

When has Bogle been "a thorn in the side of Vanguard?" Or did I read something wrong?
"What was true then is true now. Have a plan. Stick to it." -- XXXX, _Layer Cake_

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