I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

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misterno
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I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by misterno » Wed May 16, 2018 10:43 am

I have 9-5 job where I am told will be laid off around september. The severance package is big enough to make me happy and the package has lump sum payment so that we can get unemployment benefits after we are laid off

I also have an account on Amazon where I sell stuff. I was wondering if the income from this side business would prevent me receiving the unemployment benefits

So I called my state's workforce department and some expert over there told me NO. Because I have income from business

So I decided to transfer my seller account to wife which I was planning to anyway for tax deferred savings purposes. She is a sit home mom and do most of the job anyway. But Amazon says NO.

It says "you can not transfer your seller account or sell your account".

But then I have read on the media that people selling their Amazon businesses for millions of dollars.

Amazon has its own seller forum and here is what they say

"Transferring your business is different than transferring your account."

How is this related to my situation?

If you are interested, here is the link

https://sellercentral.amazon.com/forums ... e/233873/3

https://sellercentral.amazon.com/forums ... ame/401307

BTW this is a sole prop. Only my name as the owner appears and there is no EIN. I just use my soc sec #

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MnyGrl
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by MnyGrl » Wed May 16, 2018 2:45 pm

In their eyes, if you are generating money from a business, you are not unemployed.

In many states, the unemployment payments you receive have any income deducted from them. So if they would be sending you $300 a week, but your business is generating $350 a week, you would get nothing.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed May 16, 2018 4:23 pm

My understanding is that if you own your own business you are not technically unemployed - thus cannot claim benefits. Sounds like this is what you learned from your state's agent. Unemployed benefits are for those that are truly unemployed.

If you need the unemployment payments then you should close your business prior to getting laid off. Your wife can then re-establish the business under all her own information. Why not do this?

JoeRetire
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by JoeRetire » Wed May 16, 2018 4:43 pm

misterno wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 10:43 am
So I decided to transfer my seller account to wife which I was planning to anyway for tax deferred savings purposes. She is a sit home mom and do most of the job anyway. But Amazon says NO.

It says "you can not transfer your seller account or sell your account".

But then I have read on the media that people selling their Amazon businesses for millions of dollars.

Amazon has its own seller forum and here is what they say

"Transferring your business is different than transferring your account."

How is this related to my situation?
You can "transfer" your business to your wife. She can then open her own new Amazon seller account and sell using it.
She can't use your Amazon account. Just like she cannot use your social security number.

Check with your CPA to learn how this could affect your taxes and your unemployment benefits.

batpot
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by batpot » Wed May 16, 2018 4:49 pm

Do you have a business license for the stuff you sell on Amazon?

misterno
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by misterno » Wed May 16, 2018 5:03 pm

batpot wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:49 pm
Do you have a business license for the stuff you sell on Amazon?
I am selling books no license needed

TravelGeek
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by TravelGeek » Wed May 16, 2018 5:13 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:23 pm
If you need the unemployment payments then you should close your business prior to getting laid off. Your wife can then re-establish the business under all her own information. Why not do this?
One reason for not doing this might be the loss of the reseller ratings/reviews resulting in a drop in business.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed May 16, 2018 5:32 pm

Every state will have its own rules. In mine, many years ago, I applied for unemployment and during the interview told the worker that I was thinking of starting a small business mounting ski bindings. That's the job I was laid off from. I was tild that if I even buy a hammer, I would become inelligable for unemployment.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

JoeRetire
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by JoeRetire » Wed May 16, 2018 5:38 pm

TravelGeek wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 5:13 pm
DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:23 pm
If you need the unemployment payments then you should close your business prior to getting laid off. Your wife can then re-establish the business under all her own information. Why not do this?
One reason for not doing this might be the loss of the reseller ratings/reviews resulting in a drop in business.
Which is one reason Amazon won't let you transfer your account.
How reliable could ratings/reviews be if you just sell your high-rated account to some loser?

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DaftInvestor
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed May 16, 2018 7:24 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 5:38 pm
TravelGeek wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 5:13 pm
DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:23 pm
If you need the unemployment payments then you should close your business prior to getting laid off. Your wife can then re-establish the business under all her own information. Why not do this?
One reason for not doing this might be the loss of the reseller ratings/reviews resulting in a drop in business.
Which is one reason Amazon won't let you transfer your account.
How reliable could ratings/reviews be if you just sell your high-rated account to some loser?
Correct. If you aren't willing to close your business out and allow someone else to buy it (or take it) and restart it as the new seller you aren't unemployed. You can't have it both ways.

marcopolo
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by marcopolo » Wed May 16, 2018 8:21 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:23 pm
My understanding is that if you own your own business you are not technically unemployed - thus cannot claim benefits. Sounds like this is what you learned from your state's agent. Unemployed benefits are for those that are truly unemployed.
I think this varies by state. For example, in PA, self-employed side business does not necessarily disqualify you from receiving Unemployment benefits.

From the state web site:
An employee who has a proprietary interest in a sideline business may still receive benefits if it is proven that all four of the following conditions are met:

Concurrency - the self-employment activities must have been conducted while engaged in employment.

Primary source of income - the earnings from employment must exceed the net profit from the self-employment activities.

There cannot be a substantial increase in involvement in self-employment.

The claimant must be able and available for FULL TIME suitable work.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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lthenderson
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by lthenderson » Wed May 16, 2018 8:50 pm

misterno wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 10:43 am
The severance package is big enough to make me happy and the package has lump sum payment so that we can get unemployment benefits after we are laid off
I'm sure this might depend on the state but in the past when I have received a lump sum severance payment, I was unable to collect unemployment immediately. They basically divided the lump sum by my weekly salary to come up with the number of weeks I had to wait before unemployment benefits kicked in. For example, I got a three month severance in a lump sum but still had to wait three months before I got my first unemployment check.

misterno
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by misterno » Wed May 16, 2018 9:55 pm

lthenderson wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:50 pm
misterno wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 10:43 am
The severance package is big enough to make me happy and the package has lump sum payment so that we can get unemployment benefits after we are laid off
I'm sure this might depend on the state but in the past when I have received a lump sum severance payment, I was unable to collect unemployment immediately. They basically divided the lump sum by my weekly salary to come up with the number of weeks I had to wait before unemployment benefits kicked in. For example, I got a three month severance in a lump sum but still had to wait three months before I got my first unemployment check.
mine will be real lump sum, just one payment

misterno
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by misterno » Wed May 16, 2018 10:05 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:43 pm
misterno wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 10:43 am
So I decided to transfer my seller account to wife which I was planning to anyway for tax deferred savings purposes. She is a sit home mom and do most of the job anyway. But Amazon says NO.

It says "you can not transfer your seller account or sell your account".

But then I have read on the media that people selling their Amazon businesses for millions of dollars.

Amazon has its own seller forum and here is what they say

"Transferring your business is different than transferring your account."

How is this related to my situation?
You can "transfer" your business to your wife. She can then open her own new Amazon seller account and sell using it.
She can't use your Amazon account. Just like she cannot use your social security number.

Check with your CPA to learn how this could affect your taxes and your unemployment benefits.
Here is the problem with this

Amazon does not let you transfer the account so I have to close mine and she has to open a new one

But I don't want to do it

Because I am selling books and 90% of the profit comes from selling textbooks which the new sellers does not have the right. But my account had it because it was opened more than 10 years ago.

misterno
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by misterno » Wed May 16, 2018 10:07 pm

Update

Someone at work whose wife is a CPA recommended this

Convert sole prop to S corp where I will not use my SSN but only EIN

And put my wife in charge of this S Corp.

I guess I will be the owner of the S corp but my wife operates it?

Can I collect unemployment benefits with this plan?

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ClevrChico
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by ClevrChico » Wed May 16, 2018 10:08 pm

If those really are the rules, I'd just take a break from the reselling biz. Although, those rules seem awfully strict. If you're a small fish, you're basically having an online garage sale. I can't see that interfering with a job search.

tmhudg
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by tmhudg » Wed May 16, 2018 11:06 pm

As other have said, it depends on the state but I was laid off and got a lump sum payment. I was able to collect unemployment right away but I had to show them the agreement that I signed at termination which basically stated that I wouldn't sue the company for wrongful termination.

I think the state looks at it like if you have to sign the agreement to get the lump sum, it's more like hush money instead of a salary extension and they will grant you unemployment. If I wouldn't have had to sign an agreement, I wouldn't have been able to get unemployment (for some amount of time).

JoeRetire
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by JoeRetire » Thu May 17, 2018 6:32 am

misterno wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 10:05 pm
But I don't want to do it
Yup, you don't want to do it. I guessed that already.
I was just explaining why it doesn't matter what you want to do. Amazon has rules for a reason. No free lunch.

You get to decide if you want to collect unemployment or keep selling using your Amazon account.

JoeRetire
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by JoeRetire » Thu May 17, 2018 6:34 am

misterno wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 10:07 pm
Can I collect unemployment benefits with this plan?
That is a question your state can answer.
But my guess is "No".

Didn't you ask the CPA?

doss
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by doss » Thu May 17, 2018 6:36 am

This is why I love BH. Gotta say, this was an interesting and eye-opening topic!

mouses
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by mouses » Thu May 17, 2018 6:43 am

lthenderson wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:50 pm
misterno wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 10:43 am
The severance package is big enough to make me happy and the package has lump sum payment so that we can get unemployment benefits after we are laid off
I'm sure this might depend on the state but in the past when I have received a lump sum severance payment, I was unable to collect unemployment immediately. They basically divided the lump sum by my weekly salary to come up with the number of weeks I had to wait before unemployment benefits kicked in. For example, I got a three month severance in a lump sum but still had to wait three months before I got my first unemployment check.
In California I was laid off several times, received lump sum severance every time, and was eligible for unemployment benefits every time with only the standard one week delay. Update: after reading a later post, I note that I did have to sign a no-sue paper every time.

pangea33
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by pangea33 » Thu May 17, 2018 7:20 am

I got laid off once. I tightened my belt, brushed up my resume, and was incredibly tenacious until I found another job.

You have advance notice, a lump sum, and are looking for tips to navigate around laws designed to prevent abuse.

Maybe you should spend your time looking for a job right now?

mnnice
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by mnnice » Thu May 17, 2018 8:24 am

Check your state.

I collected unemployment for about nine months and had a part-time job (w-2) nearly the entire time. There are pretty massive variations from the most generous states and the least.

misterno
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by misterno » Thu May 17, 2018 8:59 am

mnnice wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:24 am
Check your state.

I collected unemployment for about nine months and had a part-time job (w-2) nearly the entire time. There are pretty massive variations from the most generous states and the least.
woww how is this possible?

I guess it depends on the state. I think in Texas, they will deduct part time pay from your unemployment check. ( I might be wrong)

mnnice
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by mnnice » Thu May 17, 2018 10:21 pm

misterno wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:59 am
mnnice wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:24 am
Check your state.

I collected unemployment for about nine months and had a part-time job (w-2) nearly the entire time. There are pretty massive variations from the most generous states and the least.
woww how is this possible?

I guess it depends on the state. I think in Texas, they will deduct part time pay from your unemployment check. ( I might be wrong)
My unemployment was less per week because I had earnings. If my earnings had been more than my weekly UI benefit I would have gotten no unemployment that week. Anyway, I circumvented no rules.

rgs92
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by rgs92 » Thu May 17, 2018 11:38 pm

UI just checks state W2 income (that's my understanding). So if you don't have any W2s, you are good to go.

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lthenderson
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Re: I will be laid off but can not get unemployment benefits?

Post by lthenderson » Fri May 18, 2018 8:26 am

misterno wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 9:55 pm
lthenderson wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:50 pm
misterno wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 10:43 am
The severance package is big enough to make me happy and the package has lump sum payment so that we can get unemployment benefits after we are laid off
I'm sure this might depend on the state but in the past when I have received a lump sum severance payment, I was unable to collect unemployment immediately. They basically divided the lump sum by my weekly salary to come up with the number of weeks I had to wait before unemployment benefits kicked in. For example, I got a three month severance in a lump sum but still had to wait three months before I got my first unemployment check.
mine will be real lump sum, just one payment
Mine have been just one payment as well. Judging from other responses, this appears to be state dependent so something to check out.

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