New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

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Muse94552
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Muse94552 » Wed May 02, 2018 1:15 pm

I'm enjoying the boglehead discussion about Lively, and have confirmed I am eligible for a one-time transfer from IRA to HSA. But I hesitate- is anyone ELSE worried that Lively will disappear in a couple of years/be sold or actually fail? :oops:
I realize that Lively deposits are theoretically in SPIC or FDIC insured accounts, but only indirectly. Is my concern unwarranted?

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jhfenton
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Wed May 02, 2018 1:35 pm

Muse94552 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 1:15 pm
I'm enjoying the boglehead discussion about Lively, and have confirmed I am eligible for a one-time transfer from IRA to HSA. But I hesitate- is anyone ELSE worried that Lively will disappear in a couple of years/be sold or actually fail? :oops:
I realize that Lively deposits are theoretically in SPIC or FDIC insured accounts, but only indirectly. Is my concern unwarranted?
It's possible that Lively will go under and that I'll have to move my account to another provider that I won't like as much. That would be an inconvenience, though, not a disaster. My investments are custodied at TD Ameritrade. Any cash in my Lively HSA account (usually zero) is custodied at Choice Financial bank. Lively going under would not put any of my assets at risk.

The worst part of Lively going under would be what it says about the viability of the business model of the low-cost HSA investment provider.

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indexfundfan
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan » Wed May 16, 2018 8:21 am

Just completed my latest money transfer from my bank to Lively/TDA. This time it took T+4 days for money to appear in TDA for trading, an improvement of one day from my last transfer.
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tenkuky
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by tenkuky » Wed May 16, 2018 10:45 am

indexfundfan wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:21 am
Just completed my latest money transfer from my bank to Lively/TDA. This time it took T+4 days for money to appear in TDA for trading, an improvement of one day from my last transfer.
To confirm, did you do from an HSA trustee-to-trustee transfer? Or just an individual contribution to Lively?
I was planning (once I start) to do the employer linked HSA provider distribution to me, I deposit check and simultaneously ACH the same amount from checking to Lively. The Lively rep suggested it is seamless and both send me 5498 so I can handle my taxes. Plus, this way no fees vs. $25 for the transfer way.

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indexfundfan
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan » Wed May 16, 2018 11:53 am

tenkuky wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 10:45 am
indexfundfan wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:21 am
Just completed my latest money transfer from my bank to Lively/TDA. This time it took T+4 days for money to appear in TDA for trading, an improvement of one day from my last transfer.
To confirm, did you do from an HSA trustee-to-trustee transfer? Or just an individual contribution to Lively?
I was planning (once I start) to do the employer linked HSA provider distribution to me, I deposit check and simultaneously ACH the same amount from checking to Lively. The Lively rep suggested it is seamless and both send me 5498 so I can handle my taxes. Plus, this way no fees vs. $25 for the transfer way.
My example was a bank-to-TDA transfer. It is not a trustee-to-trustee direct transfer.

If you are going to deposit the check into your account and ACH the money to Lively, yes, you are going to see the same T+4 days as me before money can be invested at TDA.
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MJR84
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by MJR84 » Sun May 20, 2018 9:26 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 1:35 pm
Muse94552 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 1:15 pm
I'm enjoying the boglehead discussion about Lively, and have confirmed I am eligible for a one-time transfer from IRA to HSA. But I hesitate- is anyone ELSE worried that Lively will disappear in a couple of years/be sold or actually fail? :oops:
I realize that Lively deposits are theoretically in SPIC or FDIC insured accounts, but only indirectly. Is my concern unwarranted?
It's possible that Lively will go under and that I'll have to move my account to another provider that I won't like as much. That would be an inconvenience, though, not a disaster. My investments are custodied at TD Ameritrade. Any cash in my Lively HSA account (usually zero) is custodied at Choice Financial bank. Lively going under would not put any of my assets at risk.

The worst part of Lively going under would be what it says about the viability of the business model of the low-cost HSA investment provider.
Naive question: How do we know that, if Lively went out of business, investments made through the Fidelity platform would be safe? It makes perfect sense to me that they would, but (unlike FDIC protections) I don't really understand the mechanics of how a scenario like this would work.

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MossySF
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by MossySF » Mon May 21, 2018 1:00 am

MJR84 wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 9:26 pm
Naive question: How do we know that, if Lively went out of business, investments made through the Fidelity platform would be safe? It makes perfect sense to me that they would, but (unlike FDIC protections) I don't really understand the mechanics of how a scenario like this would work.
The accounts are under your name so Lively is just an administrator. For them to access your accounts for their own purposes, they'd need to make some type of fraudulent activity -- say example making up some fake medical bills to then use your funds to pay themselves. SIPC exists for this purpose ... you are protected to up to $500K of assets ($250K cash) against fraud/improper comingling/etc in a brokerage account. (It does not protect you against value drops of the underlying assets.)

financeidiot
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by financeidiot » Mon May 21, 2018 8:21 am

Switched to Lively a few months ago. I've since lost my HSA eligibility (new employer has no HSA eligible plans) and they've been extremely helpful in navigating how much I need to withdraw and what the rules would be if I get my eligibility back later this year. Best and fastest service I've ever had from a financial institution. For contrast, my old HSA provider would just send me a link to the IRS website and tell me to figure it out.

captpete
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by captpete » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:00 pm

Hello,

My wife's employer just started offering HSA HDHP and she is to choose her own HSA custodian. I set her up with Lively to find out that they do not receive direct deposits.

Does anyone on here use lively anyway, by taking the contribution to a savings account then contributing from there to the Lively account?

Thanks for any guidance on this

Pete

Muse94552
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Muse94552 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:35 am

Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask this question: I read somewhere that California now taxes both the HSA contributions AND, earnings when HSA funds are withdrawn to pay qualified expenses. This changes the calculation for me somewhat as I was planning to make the 'once in a lifetime' trustee to trustee transfer from an IRA to fund the HSA. Can anyone confirm or deny the story on California tax on HSA? Our legislators sure make things complicated at every opportunity.

aristotelian
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by aristotelian » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:53 am

captpete wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:00 pm
Hello,

My wife's employer just started offering HSA HDHP and she is to choose her own HSA custodian. I set her up with Lively to find out that they do not receive direct deposits.

Does anyone on here use lively anyway, by taking the contribution to a savings account then contributing from there to the Lively account?

Thanks for any guidance on this

Pete
I have direct deposit set up from my employer to Lively.

Before it was set up I did it manually from my employer custodian.

Muse94552
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Muse94552 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:32 pm

Just now created a Lively account. There IS a $25fee for 'early' account closure if closed within 12months listed in the Choice Bank Terms, approx page 15. Just wanted to give all a heads-up.
Upon application completion, a popup indicated account setup would take 1-2 days. I did not link existing bank account to this HSA, nor roll an existing HSA into this one.

zeugmite
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by zeugmite » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:33 pm

Looks like, business model fears aside, Lively is the hands down winner, provided you like the TDA commission-free ETF's. RE: how they make money, I don't know -- how much is the expense of bookkeeping an HSA really? Sometimes tech is just much cheaper.

zeugmite
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by zeugmite » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:17 am

Muse94552 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:32 pm
Just now created a Lively account. There IS a $25fee for 'early' account closure if closed within 12months listed in the Choice Bank Terms, approx page 15. Just wanted to give all a heads-up.
Upon application completion, a popup indicated account setup would take 1-2 days. I did not link existing bank account to this HSA, nor roll an existing HSA into this one.
Do the fees start immediately or after money goes in?

ssenneff
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by ssenneff » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:48 pm

Here is a good site to compare HSA's: https://thehsareportcard.com . I'll be rolling over my wife and my HSA's to Avidia Bank. They waive the $2.50/Mo investment fee if the avg monthly balance is greater than $3,000, so I should have no fees at all. A bit weak on investment options, but having VFIAX (Vanguard 500 Index) at a 0.04 ER is good enough. There are a couple of other low cost index funds as well. There are other fees like Overdraft ($30) and outgoing rollover ($25), but not concerning to me.

harvestbook
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by harvestbook » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:22 pm

Has anyone actually withdrawn money from Lively? Say, using your account to pay current medical expenses? Is it a smooth process?

I have only seen posts of people putting money in.
I'm not smart enough to know, and I can't afford to guess.

TropikThunder
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by TropikThunder » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:25 pm

ssenneff wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:48 pm
Here is a good site to compare HSA's: https://thehsareportcard.com . I'll be rolling over my wife and my HSA's to Avidia Bank. They waive the $2.50/Mo investment fee if the avg monthly balance is greater than $3,000, so I should have no fees at all. A bit weak on investment options, but having VFIAX (Vanguard 500 Index) at a 0.04 ER is good enough. There are a couple of other low cost index funds as well. There are other fees like Overdraft ($30) and outgoing rollover ($25), but not concerning to me.
Avidia sounds pretty good, but there's a reason HSA Report Card didn't rank it among their Top 10 HSA's for investors. Many of us (me included) won't accept having to keep $3,000 in the HSA account to avoid the service fee. I'd gladly accept the $2.50 per month fee to allow me to invest 100% of the money (but at least Avidia gives you the choice). I'd like to think I will make more than $30/year off the $3,000 if I invest it.

TropikThunder
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by TropikThunder » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:40 pm

harvestbook wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:22 pm
Has anyone actually withdrawn money from Lively? Say, using your account to pay current medical expenses? Is it a smooth process?

I have only seen posts of people putting money in.
They have a Visa debit card (like most if not all HSA's) so I imagine it would be seamless as long as you have money in the HSA account itself (un-invested).

TIAX
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by TIAX » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:56 pm

harvestbook wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:22 pm
Has anyone actually withdrawn money from Lively? Say, using your account to pay current medical expenses? Is it a smooth process?

I have only seen posts of people putting money in.
Bogleheads don't withdraw money from HSAs.

harvestbook
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by harvestbook » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:13 am

TIAX wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:56 pm
harvestbook wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:22 pm
Has anyone actually withdrawn money from Lively? Say, using your account to pay current medical expenses? Is it a smooth process?

I have only seen posts of people putting money in.
Bogleheads don't withdraw money from HSAs.
Plan B is to die perfectly healthy without ever having touched the HSA, but that sounds like a form of market timing.
I'm not smart enough to know, and I can't afford to guess.

ssenneff
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by ssenneff » Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:12 pm

TropikThunder wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:25 pm
ssenneff wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:48 pm
Here is a good site to compare HSA's: https://thehsareportcard.com . I'll be rolling over my wife and my HSA's to Avidia Bank. They waive the $2.50/Mo investment fee if the avg monthly balance is greater than $3,000, so I should have no fees at all. A bit weak on investment options, but having VFIAX (Vanguard 500 Index) at a 0.04 ER is good enough. There are a couple of other low cost index funds as well. There are other fees like Overdraft ($30) and outgoing rollover ($25), but not concerning to me.
Avidia sounds pretty good, but there's a reason HSA Report Card didn't rank it among their Top 10 HSA's for investors. Many of us (me included) won't accept having to keep $3,000 in the HSA account to avoid the service fee. I'd gladly accept the $2.50 per month fee to allow me to invest 100% of the money (but at least Avidia gives you the choice). I'd like to think I will make more than $30/year off the $3,000 if I invest it.
I have to admit that I didn't consider the opportunity cost of not investing the $3K. I tend to keep cash large cash balances in accounts that have outgoing expenses, but $3K is more cash than necessary to cover medical expenses. Thanks for pointing that out.

Angst
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Angst » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:30 pm

ssenneff wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:12 pm
TropikThunder wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:25 pm
ssenneff wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:48 pm
Here is a good site to compare HSA's: https://thehsareportcard.com . I'll be rolling over my wife and my HSA's to Avidia Bank. They waive the $2.50/Mo investment fee if the avg monthly balance is greater than $3,000, so I should have no fees at all. A bit weak on investment options, but having VFIAX (Vanguard 500 Index) at a 0.04 ER is good enough. There are a couple of other low cost index funds as well. There are other fees like Overdraft ($30) and outgoing rollover ($25), but not concerning to me.
Avidia sounds pretty good, but there's a reason HSA Report Card didn't rank it among their Top 10 HSA's for investors. Many of us (me included) won't accept having to keep $3,000 in the HSA account to avoid the service fee. I'd gladly accept the $2.50 per month fee to allow me to invest 100% of the money (but at least Avidia gives you the choice). I'd like to think I will make more than $30/year off the $3,000 if I invest it.
I have to admit that I didn't consider the opportunity cost of not investing the $3K. I tend to keep cash large cash balances in accounts that have outgoing expenses, but $3K is more cash than necessary to cover medical expenses. Thanks for pointing that out.
You may well need to do this at your stage in life, but be sure you understand that most Bogleheads intentionally do NOT withdraw from their HSA's up front and instead prefer to leave them intact and growing for future use down the road once they're on Medicare. If you haven't already seen it, be sure to read the BH Wiki re: HSA accounts:

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Health_ ... _of_pocket

bhough
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by bhough » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:32 pm

Personal experience here regarding something mentioned above about withdrawing from Lively.

I opened an account with them last year after leaving megacorp. I started a small business and wanted to roll over and fund an HSA. My plan with HSA was not to use the money and use it to extend my pre-tax space, like most of you here do.

However, cash flow in the first year of a business is a little "herky-jerky" to say the least. So I found that I had to use it or a credit card earlier this year when the bill came due on braces for one of the little ones. My wife used the debit card function without a hitch. Highly recommend.
b

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