keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

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The Wizard
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by The Wizard » Mon May 14, 2018 6:12 pm

GCD wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 5:02 pm

PITA to me. Now I have 2 chunky things to manage. I've had keyless ignitions on rentals and hated them. YMMV, but I think they are a useless invention. They just made the "key" bigger and more cumbersome...
Rentals are even worse, yes, since they tend to put both fobs on a single steel loop.
I'm not happy about that...
Attempted new signature...

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JamesSFO
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by JamesSFO » Mon May 14, 2018 6:17 pm

cherijoh wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 1:07 pm
JamesSFO wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 7:36 am
The Wizard wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 7:23 am
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 7:19 am
They are easy to disable. I did so on the used outback we bought
If I somehow disabled my push button start/stop, my truck would just be a lawn ornament henceforth. There's no other way to start the vehicle, without some custom aftermarket work.
I believe you are misparsing, not disable push start/stop, but disable use of the remote to REMOTELY start the car.
But the linked article isn't about remote start feature. It is about people who forget to turn off their cars after driving them into their garages.
Agreed; but Jack FFR1846 was from context talking about the remote start capability and The Wizard responded as if it was about the push button ignition.

Hug401k
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by Hug401k » Mon May 14, 2018 9:50 pm

lthenderson wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 1:19 pm

I've been known to hit the freaking PANIC BUTTON on the stupid fob in my pocket, causing the horn to honk incessantly. Talk about stupid useless features...
That sounds like someone who's never been a woman alone in a parking garage at night..

For the record, the NYT story has nothing to do with remote starters, as many of you have commented on, it's all about keyless fobs, and how you can walk away with it and the car stays on indefinitely.

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fortfun
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by fortfun » Mon May 14, 2018 10:08 pm

Thieves can also steal these cars easily. https://www.wired.com/2017/04/just-pair ... steal-car/

Glad I have 2 cars that take old fashioned keys :)

emoore
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by emoore » Mon May 14, 2018 10:31 pm

Not sure how these cars run that long without the keys. At least as more EVs are developed and sold, this problem goes away.

KT785
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by KT785 » Tue May 15, 2018 8:35 am

TravelGeek wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 4:28 pm
KT785 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 1:26 pm
My understanding (when this issue surfaced a couple years ago) was that this was more of an issue specifically with hybrid vehicles, wherein the car is still running but there's no audible indication until the battery runs down and the ICE takes over . . . .
Right, but there are other non-hybrid vehicles now that stop the (gasoline) engine when you come to a stop (eg red light) and automatically restart it when you push the gas pedal. Pretty much every rental car in Europe seems to have it. Not sure if I have come across it in the US other than with hybrid vehicles (the US rentals I get tend to be more barebones).

http://autoweek.com/article/technology/ ... k-explains

So it could be that people drive one of those vehicles into the garage, put it park, and the engine stops but is in the auto-stop mode and not really permanently turned off. And could turn back on for climate control reasons.

I have had keyless ignition vehicles for 15 years now. Don’t think I would ever go back to the old system. But I do admit that there have been two or three cases when for whatever reasons I didn’t turn off the vehicle before I got out. The vehicle then beeps at me and also won’t let me lock it. I never ignore that warning.

Regarding remote start, never had a vehicle with that feature. Now I have an EV that lets me start the heater/AC remotely.
Good point, just had a Mercedes a couple weeks ago in Germany with the auto-start/stop feature; I've also had it on several rentals in the US (including a Chevy Malibu IIRC).

That said, in the cars that I've driven with the feature, the engine would only shut off, and remain off, if the brake is continually depressed while in "Drive" . . . I seem to recall the fact that putting the car in "Park" overrides the feature. Presumably most people are taking their cars out of "Drive" when parking them in the garage--but I suspect the modern dial/selector type shifters may contribute to the variability (and risk).

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lthenderson
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by lthenderson » Tue May 15, 2018 8:51 am

Hug401k wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 9:50 pm
lthenderson wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 1:19 pm

I've been known to hit the freaking PANIC BUTTON on the stupid fob in my pocket, causing the horn to honk incessantly. Talk about stupid useless features...
That sounds like someone who's never been a woman alone in a parking garage at night..

For the record, the NYT story has nothing to do with remote starters, as many of you have commented on, it's all about keyless fobs, and how you can walk away with it and the car stays on indefinitely.
Just for the record, that isn't my quote.

cusetownusa
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by cusetownusa » Tue May 15, 2018 9:32 am

Rupert wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 4:18 pm
cusetownusa wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 4:08 pm
Rupert wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 11:12 am
munemaker wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 11:00 am
Ruger wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 10:39 am
I have the keyless start on my car, and I love it. I don't understand how people can walk away with their car running. Pushing the button is just as easy to remember as turning the key and removing it before leaving the vehicle.
+1

I wonder if anyone keeps stats on carbon monoxide deaths from people leaving the engine running with the key in the ignition.
Don't know if such stats exist, but my guess is the number of deaths is lower or nonexistent because most people keep their house key and car key on the same keyring.
Wouldn't most people keep their key fob on the same key ring as well?
Why would that make any difference when you can remove the keyless fob from the car without turning the car off? (In contrast, if you keep your traditional car key and house key on the same ring, you must remove the car key from the ignition before using your house key).
lol...sorry, I had a brain freeze. Has been about 10 years since I have had car that uses a traditional key.

I am assuming most people that park in the garage don't need a key to get into the house...At least i Know i never lock the door that leads into the house from the garage.

cusetownusa
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by cusetownusa » Tue May 15, 2018 9:33 am

The Wizard wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 4:54 pm
cusetownusa wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 4:08 pm

Wouldn't most people keep their key fob on the same key ring as well?
No, we wouldn't.
The fobs are too clunky and I have two of them.
So I keep my two car key fobs separate from all my other keys...
Makes sense.

Full disclosure...I only have a car key fob. I did away with house keys years ago and have a key pad entry. I hate carrying things in my pocket.

RickBoglehead
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by RickBoglehead » Tue May 15, 2018 9:39 am

cusetownusa wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:32 am
I am assuming most people that park in the garage don't need a key to get into the house...At least i Know i never lock the door that leads into the house from the garage.
You might want to Google how to open a garage door that is shut by an opener. In short, it takes about 15 seconds...

We always lock the interior door in the garage, with the deadbolt, AND set the home alarm.

Rupert
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by Rupert » Tue May 15, 2018 9:46 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:39 am
cusetownusa wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:32 am
I am assuming most people that park in the garage don't need a key to get into the house...At least i Know i never lock the door that leads into the house from the garage.
You might want to Google how to open a garage door that is shut by an opener. In short, it takes about 15 seconds...

We always lock the interior door in the garage, with the deadbolt, AND set the home alarm.
+1. I'm kinda surprised how many Bogleheads leave the door between their garage and house unlocked. It's so easy to break into a garage.

RickBoglehead
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by RickBoglehead » Tue May 15, 2018 9:57 am

In addition, when we leave for a week or more, we throw the deadbolt on the garage door and flip the breaker off (so we don't hit OPEN by mistake when we arrive back home).

cusetownusa
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by cusetownusa » Tue May 15, 2018 10:13 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:39 am
cusetownusa wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:32 am
I am assuming most people that park in the garage don't need a key to get into the house...At least i Know i never lock the door that leads into the house from the garage.
You might want to Google how to open a garage door that is shut by an opener. In short, it takes about 15 seconds...

We always lock the interior door in the garage, with the deadbolt, AND set the home alarm.

Thanks for the advice...I am going to get a deadbolt for that door now. I don't have a home alarm though.

cusetownusa
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by cusetownusa » Tue May 15, 2018 10:14 am

Rupert wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:46 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:39 am
cusetownusa wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:32 am
I am assuming most people that park in the garage don't need a key to get into the house...At least i Know i never lock the door that leads into the house from the garage.
You might want to Google how to open a garage door that is shut by an opener. In short, it takes about 15 seconds...

We always lock the interior door in the garage, with the deadbolt, AND set the home alarm.
+1. I'm kinda surprised how many Bogleheads leave the door between their garage and house unlocked. It's so easy to break into a garage.
That's just how the house was when we bought it. I will get a deadbolt for it now...thanks for the advice.

RickBoglehead
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by RickBoglehead » Tue May 15, 2018 11:22 am

To clarify, the door between our house and the garage has a deadbolt, as does every other exterior door in our house. In addition, the big garage overhead doors have a manual deadbolt you can throw that prevents them from being opened at all. We use that when we're gone for a week or longer, turning off the breakers we don't rack the mechanism by hitting the vehicle's opener.

The alarm came with the house when we bought it, never had an alarm before. Did some investigation, ended up with a true Boglehead experience... Alarm company refused to give me their override code, found it on an alarm forum along with manuals. Reprogrammed alarm to prevent their access, then found a non-contract company with a UL-listed central station for $8.99 a month (went to $10.45 a month and stayed there at year 3). Learned my insurance company provides a discount for a monitored alarm, and further discounts for water alarm and freeze alarm. Bought each sensor on EBay, programmed them into the system, breakeven in under 12 months. Also added CO2 sensors although no discounts for them.

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by Epsilon Delta » Tue May 15, 2018 11:46 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:39 am
We always lock the interior door in the garage, with the deadbolt, AND set the home alarm.
I bolt the exterior garage door when I'm home. Since there is no exterior handle for the bolts they'd have to cut through the door to open it. I'm not particularly worried about that since the house has windows.

Ruger
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by Ruger » Tue May 15, 2018 12:18 pm

cusetownusa wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 4:08 pm
Rupert wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 11:12 am
munemaker wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 11:00 am
Ruger wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 10:39 am
I have the keyless start on my car, and I love it. I don't understand how people can walk away with their car running. Pushing the button is just as easy to remember as turning the key and removing it before leaving the vehicle.
+1

I wonder if anyone keeps stats on carbon monoxide deaths from people leaving the engine running with the key in the ignition.
Don't know if such stats exist, but my guess is the number of deaths is lower or nonexistent because most people keep their house key and car key on the same keyring.
Wouldn't most people keep their key fob on the same key ring as well?
I don't use a house key since I pull right into the garage and I don't lock the door that goes into the house. That is what I love about the keyless start-I just leave the fob in my purse and I don't have to deal with keys at all. I've never forgotten to turn off the car, and it didn't take me any time to get used to it.
Probably not a bad idea to have a carbon monoxide detector in your house if you have a keyless car if one is worried about it. I have one in my basement anyway, and had it before I got the new car.

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lthenderson
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by lthenderson » Tue May 15, 2018 1:04 pm

Rupert wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:46 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:39 am
cusetownusa wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:32 am
I am assuming most people that park in the garage don't need a key to get into the house...At least i Know i never lock the door that leads into the house from the garage.
You might want to Google how to open a garage door that is shut by an opener. In short, it takes about 15 seconds...

We always lock the interior door in the garage, with the deadbolt, AND set the home alarm.
+1. I'm kinda surprised how many Bogleheads leave the door between their garage and house unlocked. It's so easy to break into a garage.
Unless you put a fifty cent wire lock pin in the quick release handle. Then the break-into-the-garage-trick no longer works and it adds a second or two for the owner to pull the release pin in the rare case the electricity goes out and you need to leave. This is much more convenient than having to lock and unlock the door between the garage and house.

cusetownusa
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by cusetownusa » Tue May 15, 2018 1:42 pm

lthenderson wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 1:04 pm

Unless you put a fifty cent wire lock pin in the quick release handle. Then the break-into-the-garage-trick no longer works and it adds a second or two for the owner to pull the release pin in the rare case the electricity goes out and you need to leave. This is much more convenient than having to lock and unlock the door between the garage and house.
I apologize for my ignorance...are you saying that there is a way to secure your garage door so that people can't break into it easily? What do I need to do this?

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lthenderson
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by lthenderson » Tue May 15, 2018 2:11 pm

cusetownusa wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 1:42 pm
lthenderson wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 1:04 pm

Unless you put a fifty cent wire lock pin in the quick release handle. Then the break-into-the-garage-trick no longer works and it adds a second or two for the owner to pull the release pin in the rare case the electricity goes out and you need to leave. This is much more convenient than having to lock and unlock the door between the garage and house.
I apologize for my ignorance...are you saying that there is a way to secure your garage door so that people can't break into it easily? What do I need to do this?
The videos I have seen are all of somebody bowing the garage door out, reaching in with a wire (while looking through the door window) and pulling on the quick release handle which separate the door from the drive train. On my opener, there is a hole in the quick release handle that corresponds with a hole in the bar that holds the chain that lifts the door up and down. By putting something in that hole, a bolt or lock pin, it doesn't allow the quick release handle from being tripped until the pin or bolt is removed. Burglars can fish all they want with a piece of wire and they aren't going to be able to open it short of brute force pulling the door off. Even if there is no corresponding hole on an older system, a fifty cent hose clamp to prevent it from being triggered will work though it will take a little more time on your part to undo should you ever need to get out of the garage door when the electricity is off.

criticalmass
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by criticalmass » Tue May 15, 2018 2:52 pm

lthenderson wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 2:11 pm
cusetownusa wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 1:42 pm
lthenderson wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 1:04 pm

Unless you put a fifty cent wire lock pin in the quick release handle. Then the break-into-the-garage-trick no longer works and it adds a second or two for the owner to pull the release pin in the rare case the electricity goes out and you need to leave. This is much more convenient than having to lock and unlock the door between the garage and house.
I apologize for my ignorance...are you saying that there is a way to secure your garage door so that people can't break into it easily? What do I need to do this?
The videos I have seen are all of somebody bowing the garage door out, reaching in with a wire (while looking through the door window) and pulling on the quick release handle which separate the door from the drive train. On my opener, there is a hole in the quick release handle that corresponds with a hole in the bar that holds the chain that lifts the door up and down. By putting something in that hole, a bolt or lock pin, it doesn't allow the quick release handle from being tripped until the pin or bolt is removed. Burglars can fish all they want with a piece of wire and they aren't going to be able to open it short of brute force pulling the door off. Even if there is no corresponding hole on an older system, a fifty cent hose clamp to prevent it from being triggered will work though it will take a little more time on your part to undo should you ever need to get out of the garage door when the electricity is off.
If you don't care about damage (and burglar's typically do not care), that's a lot of trouble to go through to enter a house. Breaking a window is much faster, and easier. With simple tools, it makes a lot less noise and is stealthier than forcing a whole garage door.

criticalmass
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by criticalmass » Tue May 15, 2018 3:03 pm

JamesSFO wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 7:36 am
The Wizard wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 7:23 am
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 7:19 am
They are easy to disable. I did so on the used outback we bought
If I somehow disabled my push button start/stop, my truck would just be a lawn ornament henceforth. There's no other way to start the vehicle, without some custom aftermarket work.
I believe you are misparsing, not disable push start/stop, but disable use of the remote to REMOTELY start the car.
I'm trying to figure out what remote start has to do with the story quoted from NY Times. If you read the story in the first post, it describes a problem where people people apparently leave the vehicles they just parked in their garage with the engine still running, leading to an indoor carbon monoxide situation in the house that they entered after coming home. I'm still not sure why folks leave an engine running. Whether there is a key to turn or STOP button to press, I've never had any trouble turning OFF the car after I park and before I leave it, whether in a garage or outside. But apparently some folks are having difficulty remembering to turn off their vehicle.

The Wizard
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by The Wizard » Tue May 15, 2018 3:22 pm

criticalmass wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 3:03 pm
I'm trying to figure out what remote start has to do with the story quoted from NY Times. If you read the story in the first post, it describes a problem where people people apparently leave the vehicles they just parked in their garage with the engine still running, leading to an indoor carbon monoxide situation in the house that they entered after coming home. I'm still not sure why folks leave an engine running. Whether there is a key to turn or STOP button to press, I've never had any trouble turning OFF the car after I park and before I leave it, whether in a garage or outside. But apparently some folks are having difficulty remembering to turn off their vehicle.
Remote start has nothing to do with the NYT story.
But some posters have augmented the original story to include the possibility of remote starting a vehicle in a closed garage as another way to die from CO poisoning.

But I think we've established that factory installed remote starts are unlikely to kill you this way. El cheapo older aftermarket remote starters are more likely to have this failure mode...
Attempted new signature...

cusetownusa
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by cusetownusa » Tue May 15, 2018 3:47 pm

lthenderson wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 2:11 pm
cusetownusa wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 1:42 pm
lthenderson wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 1:04 pm

Unless you put a fifty cent wire lock pin in the quick release handle. Then the break-into-the-garage-trick no longer works and it adds a second or two for the owner to pull the release pin in the rare case the electricity goes out and you need to leave. This is much more convenient than having to lock and unlock the door between the garage and house.
I apologize for my ignorance...are you saying that there is a way to secure your garage door so that people can't break into it easily? What do I need to do this?
The videos I have seen are all of somebody bowing the garage door out, reaching in with a wire (while looking through the door window) and pulling on the quick release handle which separate the door from the drive train. On my opener, there is a hole in the quick release handle that corresponds with a hole in the bar that holds the chain that lifts the door up and down. By putting something in that hole, a bolt or lock pin, it doesn't allow the quick release handle from being tripped until the pin or bolt is removed. Burglars can fish all they want with a piece of wire and they aren't going to be able to open it short of brute force pulling the door off. Even if there is no corresponding hole on an older system, a fifty cent hose clamp to prevent it from being triggered will work though it will take a little more time on your part to undo should you ever need to get out of the garage door when the electricity is off.
Good idea.

cusetownusa
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by cusetownusa » Tue May 15, 2018 3:50 pm

criticalmass wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 2:52 pm
lthenderson wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 2:11 pm
cusetownusa wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 1:42 pm
lthenderson wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 1:04 pm

Unless you put a fifty cent wire lock pin in the quick release handle. Then the break-into-the-garage-trick no longer works and it adds a second or two for the owner to pull the release pin in the rare case the electricity goes out and you need to leave. This is much more convenient than having to lock and unlock the door between the garage and house.
I apologize for my ignorance...are you saying that there is a way to secure your garage door so that people can't break into it easily? What do I need to do this?
The videos I have seen are all of somebody bowing the garage door out, reaching in with a wire (while looking through the door window) and pulling on the quick release handle which separate the door from the drive train. On my opener, there is a hole in the quick release handle that corresponds with a hole in the bar that holds the chain that lifts the door up and down. By putting something in that hole, a bolt or lock pin, it doesn't allow the quick release handle from being tripped until the pin or bolt is removed. Burglars can fish all they want with a piece of wire and they aren't going to be able to open it short of brute force pulling the door off. Even if there is no corresponding hole on an older system, a fifty cent hose clamp to prevent it from being triggered will work though it will take a little more time on your part to undo should you ever need to get out of the garage door when the electricity is off.
If you don't care about damage (and burglar's typically do not care), that's a lot of trouble to go through to enter a house. Breaking a window is much faster, and easier. With simple tools, it makes a lot less noise and is stealthier than forcing a whole garage door.
That’s ultimately what I always default too... if someone really wanted to get into my house they will just break a window.

I don’t really have anything of value to steal...my concern is just the safety of my family. Everything else can be replaced.

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lthenderson
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by lthenderson » Tue May 15, 2018 4:30 pm

criticalmass wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 2:52 pm
lthenderson wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 2:11 pm
cusetownusa wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 1:42 pm
lthenderson wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 1:04 pm

Unless you put a fifty cent wire lock pin in the quick release handle. Then the break-into-the-garage-trick no longer works and it adds a second or two for the owner to pull the release pin in the rare case the electricity goes out and you need to leave. This is much more convenient than having to lock and unlock the door between the garage and house.
I apologize for my ignorance...are you saying that there is a way to secure your garage door so that people can't break into it easily? What do I need to do this?
The videos I have seen are all of somebody bowing the garage door out, reaching in with a wire (while looking through the door window) and pulling on the quick release handle which separate the door from the drive train. On my opener, there is a hole in the quick release handle that corresponds with a hole in the bar that holds the chain that lifts the door up and down. By putting something in that hole, a bolt or lock pin, it doesn't allow the quick release handle from being tripped until the pin or bolt is removed. Burglars can fish all they want with a piece of wire and they aren't going to be able to open it short of brute force pulling the door off. Even if there is no corresponding hole on an older system, a fifty cent hose clamp to prevent it from being triggered will work though it will take a little more time on your part to undo should you ever need to get out of the garage door when the electricity is off.
If you don't care about damage (and burglar's typically do not care), that's a lot of trouble to go through to enter a house. Breaking a window is much faster, and easier. With simple tools, it makes a lot less noise and is stealthier than forcing a whole garage door.
You really need to watch the video to understand. It takes only a few seconds to get in via the garage door and leaves no trace behind that someone broke into the house which is why burglars prefer this method over simply breaking a window. Also neighbors report broken windows but probably wouldn't report a garage door left open. What is seen in this video could be easily prevented with a pipe clamp and a screwdriver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMz1tXBVT1s

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just frank
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by just frank » Wed May 16, 2018 4:37 am

The article is click bait. A similar number die from setting up charcoal grills in their living rooms in the winter.

Everyone needs to have a CO alarm in their house.

My house is all electric and my primary car is an EV...and I still have a nice CO alarm.

I also power vent my attached garage 24/7 at ~15 cfm to avoid carcinogenic fumes from the (gaswagon) car entering the house.

Hug401k
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by Hug401k » Wed May 16, 2018 3:32 pm

lthenderson wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 8:51 am
Hug401k wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 9:50 pm
lthenderson wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 1:19 pm

I've been known to hit the freaking PANIC BUTTON on the stupid fob in my pocket, causing the horn to honk incessantly. Talk about stupid useless features...
That sounds like someone who's never been a woman alone in a parking garage at night..

For the record, the NYT story has nothing to do with remote starters, as many of you have commented on, it's all about keyless fobs, and how you can walk away with it and the car stays on indefinitely.
Just for the record, that isn't my quote.

Sorry lthenderson- my bad. I deleted the wrong poster.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed May 16, 2018 3:45 pm

Why does the NYT's article blame the car versus the lack of a CO detector by the home-owner?
Everyone with an attached garage should have at least one CO-detector alarm.
My wife once left her car running in the garage WITH A KEY. Not sure of statistics of people that leave their cars running with a push-button versus a key - but to me - this is a danger with a gas engine not with a pushbutton (the person cited in the article may have left their car running even with a key - we don't know) - you need a CO detector.

sc9182
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by sc9182 » Mon May 21, 2018 11:30 am

DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 3:45 pm
Why does the NYT's article blame the car versus the lack of a CO detector by the home-owner?
Everyone with an attached garage should have at least one CO-detector alarm.
My wife once left her car running in the garage WITH A KEY. Not sure of statistics of people that leave their cars running with a push-button versus a key - but to me - this is a danger with a gas engine not with a pushbutton (the person cited in the article may have left their car running even with a key - we don't know) - you need a CO detector.
Good point, agree fully. In area where we live - believe our city code requires C0+Smoke unit on any living space above garage, and near entryway to the house (usually either mud-room, or utility room); If you have gas-drier ., wouldn't you be happy to have one in Garage AND Utility room too? Of course, all open-areas and bedrooms ought to have smoke detectors .. all connected/wired .. If one unit goes Off, every-unit blows-off alarm.

The problem with that many units though (guessing 9-10 units in our house) - the task of changing the units 9V batteries! Especially, these units have knack of going off with low-battery signal (and voice too), just about 3AM-4 AM and keep repeating every 10 minutes or so. What a worse time to disturb the best sleep. We do buy the 5 or 10 unit 9V packs !!

rgs92
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by rgs92 » Mon May 21, 2018 11:40 am

It is interesting that, if I get out of my '14 Lexus and leave it running while in Park with the key fob sitting on the passenger seat, there are no warnings of any kind and it seems like it will just keep running until it runs out of gas.

(I assume it will just keep running that long... I never let it actually run that long to test this.)

GreatLaker
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by GreatLaker » Tue May 22, 2018 12:39 pm

rgs92 wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 11:40 am
It is interesting that, if I get out of my '14 Lexus and leave it running while in Park with the key fob sitting on the passenger seat, there are no warnings of any kind and it seems like it will just keep running until it runs out of gas.

(I assume it will just keep running that long... I never let it actually run that long to test this.)
Same with my 2012 Lexus IS350.
  • Open door with engine running leaving fob inside, no warning
  • Open door with engine running then shut off car, beeps repeatedly inside, I guess to remind driver to take fob
  • Exit car leaving ignition on or engine running taking fob and shut door, beeps outside 3 times. I do this regularly picking up or dropping my mom off, or opening my non-automatic garage door
  • A bit off topic but it won't let you lock the car with the fob inside. Push the lock button on the outside door handle with the fob inside and it beeps and will not lock. Push the lock button inside on the drivers door armrest and it will lock with the fob inside, but if you shut the door all the doors will unlock a few seconds later. (Before trying make sure you have a second fob outside the car but out of range.)
I do think the outside 3-beep warning is not loud enough or insistent enough. I'd like to hear 3 beeps at normal volume followed by 3 louder beeps, then have the car shut off after some reasonable interval. Like 5 minutes... enough to load a passenger, open a garage door, do minor vehicle adjustments, give someone a boost etc.

Clearly if someone leaves the car running when parked, walks away and leaves with the fob, especially in a garage it is operator error. But in our stress and distraction filled world it can and does happen. A simple logical software design should be required to eliminate the risk.

Teague
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by Teague » Fri May 25, 2018 8:46 pm

It is interesting that, if I get out of my '14 Lexus and leave it running while in Park with the key fob sitting on the passenger seat, there are no warnings of any kind and it seems like it will just keep running until it runs out of gas.

(I assume it will just keep running that long... I never let it actually run that long to test this.)
Any car I'm aware of, new or old, keyed or keyless, will keep running if it is left running with the key in it. Should it work differently?
Semper Augustus

criticalmass
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Re: keyless ignitions and carbon monoxide

Post by criticalmass » Fri May 25, 2018 10:32 pm

rgs92 wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 11:40 am
It is interesting that, if I get out of my '14 Lexus and leave it running while in Park with the key fob sitting on the passenger seat, there are no warnings of any kind and it seems like it will just keep running until it runs out of gas.

(I assume it will just keep running that long... I never let it actually run that long to test this.)
My 2004 Lexus will also keep running without warning until I remove the key by twisting and pulling it away. That’s handy while melting ice, etc. It doesn’t give a warning either that it is running (other than the tachometer showing a non zero number), I can’t say I ever expected it to.

If people leave their engine turning and leave their car, why would they expect it to stop before they switch it off? Driving a motor vehicle is a great responsibility, turning off your engine before leaving the vehicle is part of that responsibility. Some police will fine drivers who leave their engine running unattended, due to theft risk and the problems stolen cars create.

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