My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

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ofckrupke
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by ofckrupke » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:06 pm

If the relaxation of oil to the sump proceeds faster than the cooling to ambient, then it is not guaranteed that the net measurement error will proceed monotonically from a negative value immediately after stopping the engine (to which I'll stipulate) to the asymptotic value (which for a temperature controlled lab we can take to be zero error). As such, it's not at all clear that one of these effects is insignificant relative to the other throughout the relaxation/cooling period.

Further, the oil relaxation issue doesn't affect the point about ambient temperature potentially mattering for even asymptotically cold engine measurements, if the acceptable dilution limit is as small as 2%.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:36 pm

I've checked it multiple times both when it's been sitting overnight in the garage, and also after I've driven it and the engine is hot. Always have it parked in the same place when measuring. Honda Owner's Manual doesn't say specifically to check it when cold or warm but the instructions are to (1) turn the engine off and (2) wait at least 3 minutes before checking the oil level. One could infer they are suggesting to check it when the engine is warmed up. At any rate, I don't find any discernible difference in the oil level either way. Hey, when you've got 0-20 and then dilute it with gasoline, it runs back down into the crankcase pretty fast!
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:40 pm

^^^ Good point.

From a non-authoritative source: When are you supposed to check your oil, when the engine is warm or when it's cold? | Car Talk
...So our advice is to follow the instructions in your owner's manual when you're in the mood for a really accurate reading. If it says to check the oil cold, the dipstick has been calibrated for cold, unexpanded oil.
A google search shows this may be the correct answer.

From Mobil One: Should oil levels be checked when the engine is hot or cold?
We recommend checking the oil level either before turning on the engine or 5 to 10 minutes after shutting down so you can have all the oil in the oil pan to get an accurate measurement.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by JPH » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:17 am

I've ordered my oil test kit. I will post the results.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:51 am

JPH wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:17 am
I've ordered my oil test kit. I will post the results.
Are you having issues?
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by wrongfunds » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:28 am

ofckrupke wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:06 pm
If the relaxation of oil to the sump proceeds faster than the cooling to ambient, then it is not guaranteed that the net measurement error will proceed monotonically from a negative value immediately after stopping the engine (to which I'll stipulate) to the asymptotic value (which for a temperature controlled lab we can take to be zero error). As such, it's not at all clear that one of these effects is insignificant relative to the other throughout the relaxation/cooling period.

Further, the oil relaxation issue doesn't affect the point about ambient temperature potentially mattering for even asymptotically cold engine measurements, if the acceptable dilution limit is as small as 2%.
I need to learn how to write this. How can anybody rebut this brilliant reply? I am guessing you are a patent lawyer by trade!

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by JPH » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:52 am

CULater wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:51 am
JPH wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:17 am
I've ordered my oil test kit. I will post the results.
Are you having issues?
My dipstick looks just like yours, and there seems to be an odor of gasoline.
While the moments do summersaults into eternity | Cling to their coattails and beg them to stay - Townes Van Zandt

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:31 pm

JPH wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:52 am
CULater wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:51 am
JPH wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:17 am
I've ordered my oil test kit. I will post the results.
Are you having issues?
My dipstick looks just like yours, and there seems to be an odor of gasoline.
Be interested in your oil analysis results. On bobistheoilguy.com I found the following post regarding oil analysis report for the 1.5L turbo engine in a Honda Civic. Note the Comments section of the report in which it is stated that fuel contamination was at a severe level at >5%. (Mine appears to be at 10% - 15% currently by estimate).

Image

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbth ... _TGDI..DI

The analysis report has two items of relevance to fuel dilution: cSt viscosity @100 degrees and Fuel Dilution %. On the CRVOwner's Club website, some posters question the methodology used by Blackstone of the Fuel Dilution % measure saying that it gives a reading that is too low. If this is the case, the viscosity measure would be of particular importance if it is below the acceptable minimum for 0-20. Note the the Civic uses 5W-30; whereas the CRV uses 0-20, so the critical levels should be different. Edit: reading the thread, apparently this guy was using 5W-30; whereas, 0-20 is the recommended grade for the 1.5L turbo in the Civic as well as the CRV.
Not trying to over-complicate this, but one comment about Blackstone. The method they use to calculate fuel dilution of a sample is unreliable in the extreme, almost always underestimating the amount of fuel present. Some labs measure dilution directly using gas chromotography, but Blackstone relies on human observation of flashpoint and infers a fuel dilution percentage.

So I’d ignore the fuel dilution values Blackstone provides and look at 100C viscosity instead. New 0-20 engine oils have typical 100C viscosities of 8.5-9.0 cSt. A little viscosity reduction is normal because of molecule shearing, but if your sample is less than, say 7.5 cSt, fuel dilution is present. If your sample is in the 6.xs you have a lot of fuel and if below 6.0 there’s really a lot.
http://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/137 ... ues-8.html

Here are the tolerance limits for oil viscosity for 20-grade and 30-grade oil from Oil Analyzers
___Min___Max
20 6.9 <9.3
30 9.3 <12.5

http://oaitesting.com/reading-reports.aspx

Here's an article that compares oil analysis reports from Blackstone and Oil Analyzers, arguing that Oil Analyzers is more valid. I decided to go with Oil Analyzers. More expensive though: $45 vs. $28.

http://renosyn.com/blackstone-labs-vs-o ... ion-issue/
Last edited by CULater on Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:06 pm

FWIW, I noted that on the CRVOwner's Club website, there are two prominent threads on the CRV gas dilution issue that are generating the most traffic on the forum by far, indicating the growing scope of the problem. One of them now has almost 36,000 views and nearly 400 posts. The other has over 16,500 views and 156 posts. The word may be getting out (I hope). CHECK YOUR OIL!

http://www.crvownersclub.com
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by t3xn » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:13 pm

I have a 2016 Civic Touring w/ the same 1.5T as the cr-v. Thanks to this thread, I became aware of this potential issue and checked my oil level. The level was above the full mark and definitely smelled of gas. I did my oil change today (I do it myself and definitely measure out the required 3.7 qts exactly) and drained out 3.7 quarts from the oil pan only. Removing the oil filter drained another 1/4 quart of oil so I'd guess it's safe to say I have at least 1/4 quart of gas in my oil. If my math is correct, this is a 6.7% oil dilution after 5771 miles of Houston, Texas highway driving.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:30 pm

t3xn wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:13 pm
I have a 2016 Civic Touring w/ the same 1.5T as the cr-v. Thanks to this thread, I became aware of this potential issue and checked my oil level. The level was above the full mark and definitely smelled of gas. I did my oil change today (I do it myself and definitely measure out the required 3.7 qts exactly) and drained out 3.7 quarts from the oil pan only. Removing the oil filter drained another 1/4 quart of oil so I'd guess it's safe to say I have at least 1/4 quart of gas in my oil. If my math is correct, this is a 6.7% oil dilution after 5771 miles of Houston, Texas highway driving.
Looks like it is the 1.5L engine, and you're finding same thing as I am in Phoenix -- it isn't just a problem in cold weather climates.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by finite_difference » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:34 pm

It sounds like the issue can be mitigated by using premium gasoline and driving in Sport mode?
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by tapotti » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:36 pm

I had my oil checked by dealer yesterday. I had him check the dipstick front of me.

Said the oil was "perfect". I couldn't argue, looked like the oil was at the full line. When I said it smelled of gas, he offered a generic BS explanation. Told me that I just need to get used to the smell.

I suppose I'll keep watching this and see if it creeps upward again.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:30 pm

tapotti wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:36 pm
I had my oil checked by dealer yesterday. I had him check the dipstick front of me.

Said the oil was "perfect". I couldn't argue, looked like the oil was at the full line. When I said it smelled of gas, he offered a generic BS explanation. Told me that I just need to get used to the smell.

I suppose I'll keep watching this and see if it creeps upward again.
Your earlier post suggested you had read the oil level and found it was higher than the overfill mark. Are you pretty sure the reading the dealer took was valid? I find that it is very difficult to discern where the oil line is on that orange dipstick and the oil runs very easily. I have to check and re-check it to be sure. This has been commented on in the CRVOwners Club forum. I followed one poster's advice and used sandpaper to rough up the surface of the orange plastic a bit so it's not so shiny. I also put a little indent in the orange plastic with a drill up at the top of the orange plastic tip that will hold a bit of oil if the level is that high. Another poster even suggested making notches in the metal where the upper and lower marks are and then removing the orange plastic tip altogether.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:35 pm

I opened a ticket with Honda Customer Service on the oil dilution problem. I asked what steps would be taken to address the issue. Here's what I got back. What the heck does this mean? It sounds like basically they aren't going to do anything. Is there any point to contacting Customer Service? Has anybody done this and have info on what it added or didn't add to the process of dealing with a complaint?
No further steps will be taken at this time as your concern has been documented. If further escalation is required, please reach back out here or contact us at #800-999-1009, option 5, weekdays, 6:00a.m. – 5:00p.m. Pacific Time.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by inbox788 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:25 pm

CULater wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:35 pm
I opened a ticket with Honda Customer Service on the oil dilution problem. I asked what steps would be taken to address the issue. Here's what I got back. What the heck does this mean? It sounds like basically they aren't going to do anything. Is there any point to contacting Customer Service? Has anybody done this and have info on what it added or didn't add to the process of dealing with a complaint?
No further steps will be taken at this time as your concern has been documented. If further escalation is required, please reach back out here or contact us at #800-999-1009, option 5, weekdays, 6:00a.m. – 5:00p.m. Pacific Time.
What would you like them to do? They're in the data collecting stage, and haven't admitted a problem yet. In China, they're negotiating the extent of the problem and the solution (i.e. trying to sweep it under the rug).
https://www.commonfund.org/wp-content/u ... ELEASE.pdf
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hond ... SKCN1GE1P8
So far it's not a safety issue, so it's lower on the priority scale.

I don't know what they would do if you had oil analysis to back your case. I'm guessing you'd need more than one and significant contamination, but if you're one of a few folks that went through the trouble, they might try to appease you rather than risk a class action lawsuit.

I wonder if the oil analysis folk would share their data or try to sell it to Honda or class action lawyers. They might collectively have enough data to help define the problem, but it's their data, and besides protecting or profiting from it, they may have some privacy issues. Still, I'm guessing there's some self selection going on with folks getting oil analysis only when there are signs of problems.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by LadyGeek » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:49 pm

^^^ You might want to double-check the first link.

When finances are affected, management will notice. The oil dilution issue has been identified as a hit to last month's Honda sales in China.

- Honda's China sales fall in March as quality issue threatens growth run, April 3, 2018, Reuters.com
- Dongfeng Honda CR-V March sales nosedives 93.6% YoY threatened by engine issue, April 04,2018, Gasgoo.com (China automotive marketplace journal).
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by inbox788 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:31 pm

I hope some of the folks here having the problem are leasing the vehicle. It's not likely there will be major issues in 3 years to worry about. This might be one of those times when leases are better than buying. And if they don't quickly resolve the matter, it might start impacting residual values. There might be a small window where prices fall, but residual values are still high, and you can get a very nice lease deal, then dump the problem back to the dealer in 3 years. If this truly turns out to be limited to cold weather driving, then folks in the sunbelt might consider flying to Chicago, Michigan, Minnesota or Maine to get the best deals. But I'm not ready to take a chance and the CRV and now the Accord and Civic that share the same engine are now off my short list until further notice.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:52 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:49 pm
^^^ You might want to double-check the first link.

When finances are affected, management will notice. The oil dilution issue has been identified as a hit to last month's Honda sales in China.

- Honda's China sales fall in March as quality issue threatens growth run, April 3, 2018, Reuters.com
- Dongfeng Honda CR-V March sales nosedives 93.6% YoY threatened by engine issue, April 04,2018, Gasgoo.com (China automotive marketplace journal).
Hadn't seen those links. Thanks. The CR-V being such a popular vehicle and the new design being raved unanimously by reviewers, Honda has a major, major problem in the U.S. taking any action that soils the image and reputation of the vehicle here. I can't believe there is any way it is possible that they don't know all about the issue. If there was a fix that could be conveniently implemented, they would have done it by now. After all, the issue was being reported in 2016 with the Civic and in early 2017 with the CR-V and now they are into the 3rd year model of the Civic and the 2nd year of the CR-V. They have an engine with a serious engineering flaw and it won't be fixed until a re-engineered engine is put into these vehicles; perhaps in the 2019 models? If I were a dealer for Toyota, Mazda, Subaru, and other competitors to the CRV, I'd be licking my chops about now.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:31 pm

China not buying Honda's "fix" for the oil dilution problem. Meanwhile, American Honda says "duh, we don't know nuttin'. Problem, what problem?"
April 12, 2018 — Reports of Honda CR-V rising oil levels are being monitored by Honda officials in the U.S. after Chinese officials rejected Honda's plans to recall 350,000 CR-Vs and Civics in that country.

Dongfeng Honda said the 350,000 vehicles would have adjustments made to the timing and speed of the engines and updates of the fuel injection timing and gasoline injection control software. Additionally, the warranties of the CR-Vs would be extended to six years to calm the fears of owners.

However, Chinese regulators put a halt to Honda's plans and the automaker's ability to sell new CR-Vs in the country. Chinese officials say Honda needs to do more to address and fix the oil level and gas odor problems, forcing Honda to issue a stop-sale on new SUVs until government-approved recall repairs are performed.

American Honda says there isn't much to say at this point because the automaker needs to first come to an engineering understanding to conclude that there truly is a problem.

Many CR-V owners complain about multiple problems with their SUVs, including issues with heating, vibrations, gas odors in the cabins and increasing oil levels due to fuel mixing with the engine oil.

According to Honda, engineers must determine exactly which symptoms match what root cause and then determine appropriate repairs for the vehicles.

Attorneys are also investigating alleged engine oil contamination problems in 2016-2018 Honda CR-V SUVs to decide if a class-action lawsuit should be filed to represent affected CR-V owners. You can learn more about that here.
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2018 ... uel.shtml
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:22 am

Oil Drop Test

If you think you might have gasoline in the engine oil on your Honda, but don't know if you want to pay for an oil analysis, you can perform an oil drop test. This is not an exact test and a little subjective, but might give you an idea of whether an oil analysis might be merited.

To do the oil drop test, just put a drop of oil from the dipstick on the plain back of a business card. Lay the card flat and elevate the card at the edges; you can use a couple of pencils or something to do that. You should wait until the drop is completely absorbed into the material of the card to read it; which might take awhile. I did this last evening and let the oil drop dry overnight and looked at it this morning.

- A colorless spot or slight yellow outer ring - "good" oil.
- A dense, dark deposit zone - Dispersancy failure
- A black, pasty zone - Glycol (Antifreeze) in your oil
- A dark center with distinct outer ring - Severely oxidized oil
- A dark center with surrounding rings - Fuel in oil

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/u ... er=639235

My oil has about 500 miles on it, and it has the appearance of a bullseye with a couple of concentric rings around the center. For comparison, I placed a drop of fresh 0-20 Mobil 1 synthetic on the card as well. The drop is clear with no rings. So, based on this crude test, I do plan to go ahead with the paid oil analysis since there does appear to be fuel in the oil.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by finite_difference » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:57 pm

CULater wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:22 am
Oil Drop Test

If you think you might have gasoline in the engine oil on your Honda, but don't know if you want to pay for an oil analysis, you can perform an oil drop test. This is not an exact test and a little subjective, but might give you an idea of whether an oil analysis might be merited.

To do the oil drop test, just put a drop of oil from the dipstick on the plain back of a business card. Lay the card flat and elevate the card at the edges; you can use a couple of pencils or something to do that. You should wait until the drop is completely absorbed into the material of the card to read it; which might take awhile. I did this last evening and let the oil drop dry overnight and looked at it this morning.

- A colorless spot or slight yellow outer ring - "good" oil.
- A dense, dark deposit zone - Dispersancy failure
- A black, pasty zone - Glycol (Antifreeze) in your oil
- A dark center with distinct outer ring - Severely oxidized oil
- A dark center with surrounding rings - Fuel in oil

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/u ... er=639235

My oil has about 500 miles on it, and it has the appearance of a bullseye with a couple of concentric rings around the center. For comparison, I placed a drop of fresh 0-20 Mobil 1 synthetic on the card as well. The drop is clear with no rings. So, based on this crude test, I do plan to go ahead with the paid oil analysis since there does appear to be fuel in the oil.
The only thing missing from that informational post is th pictures. And pictures of your oil too!

I am curious to try this for my car just to see what it looks like.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by munemaker » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:55 pm

CULater wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:06 pm
The word may be getting out (I hope).
Maybe a good time to short Honda stock, or at least buy PUT options.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by theplayer11 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:18 pm

Honda better do something..I have crossed the CR-v off my list.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:13 pm

I bought a spare dipstick and then I removed the orange plastic tip from tip, after drilling indents into the metal where the upper and lower holes were (overfill and underfill points). MUCH better than the lousy orange plastic. Now I can see exactly where the oil level is on the metal. This allows me to measure that the oil level has increased to exactly 8 m/m above the overfill mark, where it was when the oil was changed about 500 miles ago. 8 m/m corresponds to .44 quart, assuming that the volume between the upper and lower holes is 1 quart (18 m/m apart). .44 quart is 12% of the 3.7 quart in the sump. This matches exactly the chart I put up previously. So, it appears that my oil is diluted 12% by fuel at present. According to Oil Analyzers, > 5% fuel dilution is SEVERE.

I would like to send a sample of my oil to Oil Analyzers for an official test result. I don't think I can right now, however. You have to provide almost 4 oz of oil in the sample bottle. If my calculations are correct, the amount left would drop the overfill by nearly 1/3. I believe I should return to Honda to follow up with the true amount of overfill, to see if they do anything or blow me off. If they blow me off, I'll draw the sample then and send it in for analysis. If they do another oil change, I'll wait until the overfill goes back up to draw the oil sample. At this point, I need to get it on the books with Honda that I do have a problem. They haven't even admitted that yet. Lemon Law requires that there must be 3 attempts to fix a problem before a claim can be filed. As of now, they haven't even said I have a problem. This could get tricky.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Morse Code » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:16 am

I purchased a 2018 CR-V in March with the 1.5 L turbo. Wouldn't you know it, I found this thread about a week later.

I'm in Michigan. We've had a cold spring and I commute about 3 miles to work. So I'm the ideal candidate for the oil fuel-dilution problem. I have driven my CR-V about 1300 miles so far with no gas smell in cabin, no increase in oil level, no gas smell on dipstick. I did the oil drop test last night and results look normal. Guess I'm just lucky.

By the way, I love the CR-V. Perfect vehicle for my needs. I've been very impressed with the gas mileage of that turbo engine.

I'm glad I didn't find this thread until after I purchased my Honda, because it would have unnecessarily persuaded me to buy something else.
Livin' the dream

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:20 am

Morse Code wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:16 am
I purchased a 2018 CR-V in March with the 1.5 L turbo. Wouldn't you know it, I found this thread about a week later.

I'm in Michigan. We've had a cold spring and I commute about 3 miles to work. So I'm the ideal candidate for the oil fuel-dilution problem. I have driven my CR-V about 1300 miles so far with no gas smell in cabin, no increase in oil level, no gas smell on dipstick. I did the oil drop test last night and results look normal. Guess I'm just lucky.

By the way, I love the CR-V. Perfect vehicle for my needs. I've been very impressed with the gas mileage of that turbo engine.

I'm glad I didn't find this thread until after I purchased my Honda, because it would have unnecessarily persuaded me to buy something else.
You might be a lucky one. But it looks like the average mileage being reported by people with the problem is around 8000-9000 miles. Mine showed up at about 8500 miles. So don't count your chickens just yet...
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by researcher » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:07 am

CULater wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:20 am
Morse Code wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:16 am
I purchased a 2018 CR-V in March with the 1.5 L turbo...
I have driven my CR-V about 1300 miles so far...
Mine showed up at about 8500 miles. So don't count your chickens just yet...
Agree with this.

You've only owned your car for a month.

I think you'd need to drive it for least 6 months before even beginning to call yourself "lucky."

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Morse Code » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:15 am

Perhaps. Is this really something that can be "not present" and then after a certain period of time or miles driven appears? Or is it that it's just discovered at 8-9K on average, but was there all along?

I do appreciate the "heads up" and really feel for you guys who bought a Honda expecting the highest quality and reliability only to have lemons.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out. This is the first new car I've purchased in my life.
Last edited by Morse Code on Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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invst65
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by invst65 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:19 am

Morse Code wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:16 am
I purchased a 2018 CR-V in March with the 1.5 L turbo. Wouldn't you know it, I found this thread about a week later.
You and me both. I live in Florida so I'm hoping it's a cold weather problem as has been suggested.

I did a lot of research before buying the CR-V and don't recall seeing anything about this. Actually, I remember reading an article about the 2018 CR-V getting an SUV of the year award. So go figure.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Morse Code » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:22 am

invst65 wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:19 am
Morse Code wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:16 am
I purchased a 2018 CR-V in March with the 1.5 L turbo. Wouldn't you know it, I found this thread about a week later.
You and me both. I live in Florida so I'm hoping it's a cold weather problem as has been suggested.

I did a lot of research before buying the CR-V and don't recall seeing anything about this. Actually, I remember reading an article about the 2018 CR-V getting an SUV of the year award. So go figure.
Same. I did all kinds of internet research and heard nothing but praise for the CR-V and turbo engine. Probably read every review available. Can't believe this didn't come up in my searches. Hopefully it's isolated to a relatively small number of vehicles.
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markcoop
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by markcoop » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:04 am

I actually didn't buy a CRV this year because of this issue. Initially, it was my first choice. I wonder how much it has hurt sales in this country. I still don't have a strong feel as to how many vehicles really have this issue. My gut is this problem will get fixed and most Honda CRV owners will be fine, but didn't see a need to take the chance given there are other good SUVs out there.
Mark

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:29 pm

I didn't notice the problem until after the first oil change at around 6000 miles. I still had 30% left on the maintenance minder I believe. The dealer oil change seemed to be overfilled but that's happened to me before so I decided I couldn't do anything about it at that time. After hearing about the fuel dilution issue, I wondered if the high oil level was due to that and not an overfill. I did the sniff test and it smelled like gas, so I hauled it into a dealer at 8900 miles.

I could have been having the problem after the first oil change, but not sure why that would make a difference. I had checked the oil level prior to that but maybe wasn't paying close attention, and it's very difficult to see exactly where the level is on that orange plastic dipstick. This vehicle is the first new one I've owned in 15 years and there's a tendency to think that the "maintenance minder" and all the electronic gimmicks are taking care of business, but I've found out now that I still need to remain "hands on" just like I always have. I know that some new vehicles (I think Audi is one) don't even come with a dipstick anymore, so you have to rely on the electronics. The cynic in me says that is how Honda will "fix" this problem in the next gen of this engine -- NMD (no mo dipstick). :annoyed
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by tapotti » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:53 pm

Have you tried using premium gas? If so, did it improve the situation?

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by snodog » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:11 pm

theplayer11 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:18 pm
Honda better do something..I have crossed the CR-v off my list.
I know. We were planning to buy my wife the 1.5 liter turbo Civic si but now we're just going to wait a while to see what transpires and try to get a better handle on things.

If we had to purchase right now we'd probably buy a Mazda 3.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by westcoast » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:27 pm

We bought ours in July 2017 not knowing about the oil dilution problem. After about 500 miles the oil pressure gauge stayed on indicating the pressure was to high. After taking it to the dealer they kept it for three days trying to figure out what was wrong. They called Honda Tech and changed the "switch" and it seemed to fix it. Prior to taking it to the dealer I checked the dip stick and it looked the it was over fill mark but I didn't do the sniff test. Had the oil changed at the dealer at 5000 miles and the oil minder still had 20 per cent value left. I asked the service tech at the dealership if she had heard of the oil dilution issue she told me she didn't know anything about it. Car now has 7200 miles and looks like it is over orange mark on the dip stick and smells like gas. I submitted a complaint to Honda and was told there is nothing they have planned to fix the issue even though they are aware of it. The person from Honda customer service told me the issue in China with the car is different. She also wanted to know what web sites I have checked to find out about the issue. If any of you have the oil dilution problem call Honda an get a complaint number and asked if they are aware of a class action suit regarding it.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:33 pm

tapotti wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:53 pm
Have you tried using premium gas? If so, did it improve the situation?
I've read the debate about whether premium would help. I'd like to try that, but at this point I want to continue running the recommended octane and document the problem via going back to Honda. If they change the oil again, we'll see if the same thing happens within 500 miles; rinse and repeat. My understanding is that there have to be 3 repeats of the same problem to support a Lemon Law claim. Once we have that, I might wait until I need to fill up my fuel tank and put premium in, and then get another oil/filter change to see if anything different happens. I'd like this problem to go away, but I don't think it will, so my first objective is to figure out how to get rid of the vehicle at the lowest possible financial cost. LL would be the best solution, but may have to trade it or sell it and take a hit.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by inbox788 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:49 pm

theplayer11 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:18 pm
Honda better do something..I have crossed the CR-v off my list.
It's off my list too. Have a couple of relatives who are looking and I've told them about the issue and neither is considering the CRV anymore. I'll probably be looking too in about a year, so hopefully they've resolve the issue by then.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:58 pm

westcoast wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:27 pm
We bought ours in July 2017 not knowing about the oil dilution problem. After about 500 miles the oil pressure gauge stayed on indicating the pressure was to high. After taking it to the dealer they kept it for three days trying to figure out what was wrong. They called Honda Tech and changed the "switch" and it seemed to fix it. Prior to taking it to the dealer I checked the dip stick and it looked the it was over fill mark but I didn't do the sniff test. Had the oil changed at the dealer at 5000 miles and the oil minder still had 20 per cent value left. I asked the service tech at the dealership if she had heard of the oil dilution issue she told me she didn't know anything about it. Car now has 7200 miles and looks like it is over orange mark on the dip stick and smells like gas. I submitted a complaint to Honda and was told there is nothing they have planned to fix the issue even though they are aware of it. The person from Honda customer service told me the issue in China with the car is different. She also wanted to know what web sites I have checked to find out about the issue. If any of you have the oil dilution problem call Honda an get a complaint number and asked if they are aware of a class action suit regarding it.
Sounds like my story. The only people who haven't heard of the problem are the people at Honda dealerships. Did you submit a complaint through Honda Customer Service? I'm surprised they admitted they are aware of the problem, not surprised that they have nothing planned to fix it. Need more owners to complain, but my guess is that a vast majority of CRV buyers rarely check their own oil and are looking for low oil levels if they do it. The engine breakdowns that are likely to result from insufficient lubrication won't happen for some time and might not be associated with gas in oil even then. I guess Honda has figured that the vehicles will last until the 36-month warranty is up so no need to get involved. We're each on our own to try to get some kind of help with this.

I'm working on trying to build a case for a Lemon Law claim; but that will be tough I think. There has to be documentation of a problem as a starting point. On my service report it says "Could not duplicate the concern." What does that even mean? Service advisor verbally told me: "you don't have a problem, we didn't find a problem." I'm supposing that Honda Tech tells the dealer NOT to identify this issue as a problem with the vehicle. They're just treating it on a individual case basis, as if it is a unique concern to that vehicle. Hoping a class action will be filed, which might change the picture.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Finridge » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:10 am

inbox788 wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:49 pm
theplayer11 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:18 pm
Honda better do something..I have crossed the CR-v off my list.
It's off my list too. Have a couple of relatives who are looking and I've told them about the issue and neither is considering the CRV anymore. I'll probably be looking too in about a year, so hopefully they've resolve the issue by then.
The Honda CRV was at the top of my list when I first saw this thread. I did some reading about it, and now it's not on the list at all. Just as troublesome as the problem itself is Honda's failure to deal with it.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by munemaker » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:28 am

Finridge wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:10 am
The Honda CRV was at the top of my list when I first saw this thread. I did some reading about it, and now it's not on the list at all. Just as troublesome as the problem itself is Honda's failure to deal with it.
Initially I was thinking Toyota as the obvious alternative, but perhaps the Acura RDX would be another good choice.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:02 pm

munemaker wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:28 am
Finridge wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:10 am
The Honda CRV was at the top of my list when I first saw this thread. I did some reading about it, and now it's not on the list at all. Just as troublesome as the problem itself is Honda's failure to deal with it.
Initially I was thinking Toyota as the obvious alternative, but perhaps the Acura RDX would be another good choice.
If it were me, I'd wait to look at the 2019 RAV4 coming out this winter. Hey, it is me! Has everything the CRV has, but more. Will have 2.4 non-turbo engine (good!) and an 8-speed tranny (good!). Only thing missing will be Android Auto, although it has CarPlay. If this thing is as good as it looks, I'll likely be dumping my gas-lubricated CRV after having looked at the RAV4. [OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by uberme » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:34 am

Ugh :shock:

We bought a '17 last year and its been a dream thus far. At about 5,500 miles. Had the oil changed by the dealer two months ago for the first time, , posted 500 miles since, checking the oil no strong smell, however, its past the top mark... will call the dealership. Never smelt gas inside the car.

What is everyone else doing?? Sounds like going to premium gas is the only possible fix thus far

UPDATE: went to the dealer and they admitted there was too much showing on the dipstick so removed some oil to get it in line. They have not heard of any oil gas-diluation issue and couldn't find it anywhere in their service notes. :?
I will always now have them show me the level before I leave the dealership!
Last edited by uberme on Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by munemaker » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:48 am

CULater wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:02 pm

If it were me, I'd wait to look at the 2019 RAV4 coming out this winter.
Pictures of the 2019 RAV4 look nice, but isn't it bad form to buy the first year of a redesign? Something about the new model having defects that might not be immediately obvious.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:42 pm

uberme wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:34 am
Ugh :shock:

We bought a '17 last year and its been a dream thus far. At about 5,500 miles. Had the oil changed by the dealer two months ago for the first time, , posted 500 miles since, checking the oil no strong smell, however, its past the top mark... will call the dealership. Never smelt gas inside the car.

What is everyone else doing?? Sounds like going to premium gas is the only possible fix thus far

UPDATE: went to the dealer and they admitted there was too much showing on the dipstick so removed some oil to get it in line. They have not heard of any oil gas-diluation issue and couldn't find it anywhere in their service notes. :?
I will always now have them show me the level before I leave the dealership!
Now that you have the oil level set to the mark (upper overfill mark?), you can keep tabs on it to see if the level increases again. The first time mine was above overfill, I didn't know for sure that it had increased because I wasn't precise about where it was before I drove off from the dealer where the oil had been changed. The oil was changed again 500 miles ago and set carefully to the overfill hole on the dipstick and has now increased to the top of the orange dipstick tip. So I know it does increase and probably did the first time too. Taking it in on Tuesday as dealer instructed for followup. We'll see what they do; but simply draining out some oil to get it back to the mark would not be acceptable to me.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

invst65
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by invst65 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:47 pm

Decided to check the oil on my 1.5 months old 2018 CRV this morning after reading this thread. It has 2100 miles on it and the oil looks as normal as it could be. As for a gas smell, with some amount of gas-dilution being normal, it's hard to know what would smell abnormal. For those of you have smelled it in the car I guess it's obvious.

As I said in an earlier thread when we bought the CRV-EX there was only one left on the lot but there were about 25 LX's (that's with the 2.4L non turbo engine). The salesman said the reason for that was because the EX trim sells so well they can't keep them on the lot. We didn't like the color so they had to order one for us.

After reading this thread I'm left wondering if that was the real reason for the supply/demand issue. Either the CRV-EX really is that popular and Honda is full-speed ahead on the production line despite the problem or they have cut back on production because of it. Go figure.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by uberme » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:36 pm

CULater wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:42 pm
uberme wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:34 am
Ugh :shock:

We bought a '17 last year and its been a dream thus far. At about 5,500 miles. Had the oil changed by the dealer two months ago for the first time, , posted 500 miles since, checking the oil no strong smell, however, its past the top mark... will call the dealership. Never smelt gas inside the car.

What is everyone else doing?? Sounds like going to premium gas is the only possible fix thus far

UPDATE: went to the dealer and they admitted there was too much showing on the dipstick so removed some oil to get it in line. They have not heard of any oil gas-diluation issue and couldn't find it anywhere in their service notes. :?
I will always now have them show me the level before I leave the dealership!
Now that you have the oil level set to the mark (upper overfill mark?), you can keep tabs on it to see if the level increases again. The first time mine was above overfill, I didn't know for sure that it had increased because I wasn't precise about where it was before I drove off from the dealer where the oil had been changed. The oil was changed again 500 miles ago and set carefully to the overfill hole on the dipstick and has now increased to the top of the orange dipstick tip. So I know it does increase and probably did the first time too. Taking it in on Tuesday as dealer instructed for followup. We'll see what they do; but simply draining out some oil to get it back to the mark would not be acceptable to me.
Yes, I'm definitely going to watch it going forward. I'm leaning towards them having put too much oil during the change. Our car has really been solid and we love the look/features, no smell inside the cabin, good power, around 30mph - but we've only put on 5500 miles since we've owned it for year plus now. I feel for everyone with more serious issues. I wonder if its a manufacturing problem (ours shown built in Canada)
Will be following this thread!

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by tapotti » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:38 pm

Yes, no significant problems here either. Driving in northern California with about 4700 miles over 7 months. Also will keep following thread.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:20 am

One other trick I ran across to help accurately monitor oil level on the dipstick. I've had a devil of a time being sure just where the oil level is on the dipstick with fresh oil. It is so thin and clear the border for the oil level has been really hard to determine on the shiny orange plastic tip. This is especially true if you are checking the oil when the engine is still hot, when the oil is very thin -- almost like water.

I ended up buying another dipstick from Honda for $10.99 and then, after marking the bottom and top fill level holes in the plastic tip on the metal with a drill, I knocked off the orange plastic so I could read the oil level on the metal. That seemed to be better, but there's a big hole in the metal part just above the upper fill mark where the plastic was mounted and really hard to see where the oil level is on the thin edges around that hole. So, the trick I ran across is to use baking powder. After removing the metal dipstick from the engine, you can sprinkle a little baking powder around the area where the oil is on the dipstick. The baking powder sticks to the oil and seems to make it clear just where the oil line ends. Baking powder is good, since it will not add any grit to oil if you happen to get a little bit in there; although I take great pains to wipe it clean and use a toothpick to push it out of the little holes in the metal part of the dipstick. The baking powder trick doesn't work with the orange tip very well, so you really need to make a modified dipstick by knocking off the shiny orange tip.

Before I take the vehicle into Honda to follow up the oil change 500 miles ago, I wanted to be sure that I can "prove" where the oil is on the dipstick; I was worried that there could be disagreement because of the difficulty reading the level on the orange dipstick part with fresh oil. I'll be showing up with my metal dipstick and some baking powder. :thumbsup
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Carl53
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Carl53 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:55 am

CU

How many times a week are you checking your oil level? If multiple times per day, I wonder if the few drops on the dipstick, done multiple times could be causing you to underestimate the problem.

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