Vanguard 403b Changes

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
dkview
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by dkview » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:21 pm

Mickey7 wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:17 am
For something that has been afoot for awhile and for a company as stable as Vanguard, this is turning into a 3 Stooges production. On my last Vanguard confirmation it showed the contribution to Total Bond, but not for Wellington or Equity Income. What happened to the other contributions? It also shows that I now have a Total Bond Investor fund and a Total Bond Admiral fund.
On the list of 403b funds available none of the three appear. Also in the FAQ section it says that I will not be able to change the existing ones to a fund on their limited list of available funds. I was going to move an older 403b with Oppenheimer to those funds, but now?
Guess who is calling Vanguard tomorrow?
Btw when I retire will I be able will I be able to move the whole to an IRA without any implications?
i'm having a similar problem that you are having. I am having two funds of each funds, the investor and admiral shares each. My old contributions that was there already never converted to admiral shares from investor shares. My new contributions are going into the admiral shares. I am trying to convert the investor shares to admiral shares but there is no options for it. Trying to re balance my portfolio, it only shows the admiral shares I have. The bulk of my portfolio is still in investor shares.

docdaneeka
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by docdaneeka » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:25 pm

So Vanguard is outsourcing their 403b7 accounts and the yearly fee is going from $15 to $60. Well I certainly haven't noticed a fourfold increase in benefits and features. Also, Vanguard is moving my 401k to Fidelity in January; I guess they want to divest their retirement accounts.

I plan to close my 403b in January and move the money to my taxable accounts. Depending on Fidelity's customer service with my 401K, I'll probably move my IRA accounts over to them as well. Had a good run with Vanguard, but I think it's time to move on.

Over the past year or so, I've become more and more disappointed with Vanguard's customer service, the quality of their website, and the way they treat their investors.
Last edited by docdaneeka on Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dkview
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by dkview » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:32 am

delete
Last edited by dkview on Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

jdbrandner
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:30 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by jdbrandner » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:34 pm

Pravin Lol wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:52 am
Anyone else experiencing delays in contributions appearing in 403b accounts after the switch to Newport? In the past my contributions would appear in a day or two after my paycheck was issued. But I was paid about a week ago, deductions were made from the paycheck, and they haven't shown up at Vanguard yet.

I don't mind if the new system means another day or two of delays. But I worry that my payroll office may have screwed something up. I don't think many employees use Vanguard for their 403b (or, in fact, have one at all), so the office isn't always up to speed.
Yes - I have two payroll contributions that have yet to post. The first payroll was 21 days ago, the second payroll was 7 days ago. Previously, at Vanguard, these posted two days after my payroll. I have an email message into Newport - two days ago - with no response yet. I'll try calling next week.

User avatar
alpenglow
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:02 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by alpenglow » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:03 pm

It seems I've been lucky. I'm sorry to hear that some are having problems with conversion and posting of contributions. This is well worth the extra fees! In 18 years, I can rollover to an IRA. This has solidified my plan to move all assets to Fidelity.

Pravin Lol
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:40 am

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by Pravin Lol » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:32 pm

Despite having some teething problems, I'm overall very happy with the change. $60 annual fee for admiral shares in any VG fund that has them is a good deal. It makes the 403(b) a great account for rebalancing. Sometimes it's necessary to only take a small position in an asset class in an account when rebalancing to avoid having to sell in taxable, or to get around lack of fund choices in another account. It's great to be able to access admiral shares even in such cases.

dkview
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by dkview » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:07 am

delete
Last edited by dkview on Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

A440
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:46 am
Location: NJ

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by A440 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:51 am

Has anyone figured out how to link the Newport/Vanguard 403b to Financial Engines? It no longer shows up under account holdings.

dkview
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by dkview » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:35 am

NVM. I figured it out on my own. Apparently, if you do the rebalancing options, it doesn't show any investor shares to rebalance from or to. What i had to do was exchange each fund separately. So, what I did was exchange all my investor shares, one by one, to a target date fund. That target date fund shows up in the rebalancing option now. Now, if I rebalance, it'll show that target date fund for me to rebalance away from.

mikeyzito22
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:42 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by mikeyzito22 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:53 pm

For those of you who don't like the extra $5.00 a month, I suggest you get one less Starbucks latte, one less anything. Or you could just adjust your contribution to be five bucks less. For the average teacher, I think $5.00 is what we may spend just one drink after work. So I would just say "really"? I get it, we all want low fees, but this thread is like the cheap trying to outdo the cheap. How many of you take your kids for ice cream every once in awhile, or splurge on a meal? The really poor folks can't even get into a 403b because they are living month to month. So, again, is this a little overboard? Overreacting? Maybe, you, maybe?

A440
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:46 am
Location: NJ

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by A440 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:35 am

Newport Group website and access to Vanguard 403b seems to be down this morning.
I hope it didn't get hacked! :shock:

dkview
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by dkview » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:50 am

Anyone knows when the expense ratio will be deducted from my account?

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 45597
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by LadyGeek » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:04 pm

Are you asking this for tax purposes?

Just in case, see: Are mutual fund expense ratios tax deductible? | Investopedia (No)
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

dkview
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by dkview » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:25 pm

No. Not for tax purposes.

User avatar
FiveK
Posts: 4857
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:43 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by FiveK » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:29 pm

dkview wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:50 am
Anyone knows when the expense ratio will be deducted from my account?
Unless this is done in an unusual manner, the expense ratio, which is deducted from the fund's average net assets, is accrued on a daily basis.

In other words it already has been, and will continue to be, each day. It just doesn't show as a separate line item.

ResearchMed
Posts: 6423
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by ResearchMed » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:33 pm

dkview wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:50 am
Anyone knows when the expense ratio will be deducted from my account?
The expense ratio is built into the fund value/returns; there isn't any single time or times when it is deducted.
Think of it being deducted on a daily basis, before you see the "value" posted.

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

dkview
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by dkview » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:08 pm

That's interesting. Wouldn't that be hard to do since it would be so small of an expense ratio to calculate?

With my old 403b, the expense ratio would be deducted quarterly and it'll show the deduction. If, as you said, is done daily according to the NAV, would that mean that I had the expense ratio applied twice?

ResearchMed
Posts: 6423
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by ResearchMed » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:16 pm

dkview wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:08 pm
That's interesting. Wouldn't that be hard to do since it would be so small of an expense ratio to calculate?
What wouldn't be "hard to do"?

The way it is handled isn't any different, if you think about it, than the fact that each department store item has "overhead" built into the price. They don't charge for the item and then add the "expense of running the store".

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

ResearchMed
Posts: 6423
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by ResearchMed » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:17 pm

dkview wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:08 pm
That's interesting. Wouldn't that be hard to do since it would be so small of an expense ratio to calculate?

With my old 403b, the expense ratio would be deducted quarterly and it'll show the deduction. If, as you said, is done daily according to the NAV, would that mean that I had the expense ratio applied twice?
Sorry, I missed the second part while you were typing.

Are you sure you aren't referring the *plan* fees?
These are indeed often deducted quarterly.

But that is not the same as the ER of each fund that each mutual fund vendor has, within your plan or not.

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

dkview
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by dkview » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:20 pm

Okay. Thanks RM, you are right, those are the "plan fee".

Crazy how I never thought about this before.

Nevermind, I figured it all out now

Anonymous Coward
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:10 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by Anonymous Coward » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:18 am

This transition has not been very smooth.

I just got off the phone for the second time with Newport Group, trying to understand what their detail-lite statements are showing me. I am unfailingly polite and respectful to customer service reps, but so far the professionalism and customer service I'm getting from Newport Group people is nowhere close to what I have received from Vanguard people, who (IME) have always been professional, polite, and knowledgeable. This last Newport Group rep came across as very uninterested in helping, almost rude and dismissive. I was on hold for more than 15 minutes while she "researched" a couple of contributions.

In a nutshell, I had a contribution to my 403(b) which came in to Vanguard during the "blackout" period between 11/6/2017 and 11/13/2017. I download everything to Quicken, and I'm trying to reconcile my account for 2017. Posting dates for transactions at Newport Group seem to be lagging the paycheck date by a month or more, which makes it confusing to reconcile. That contribution which hit Vanguard in early November wasn't clocked in by the Newport Group people until 12/12/2017, more than 40 days after it was taken from my paycheck. Another contribution that was taken from my check at the end of November didn't get clocked in at Newport Group until the end of December.

So far I've sent three emails and made three phone calls trying to get to the bottom of this. Newport Group seems to be nonresponsive to email requests for information, and talking to them on the phone isn't much better. Vanguard defers all questions regarding this to Newport Group. Overall, very disappointing and unsatisfactory.

Zakry72
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:22 am

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by Zakry72 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:41 am

I recently tried to interact with the Newport customer service when trying to rollover money to my Vanguard 403(b). I was on hold for over 25 minutes before I gave up and called Vanguard directly. I let them know that I could not get through to Newport and the Vanguard rep said" No problem, I will connect you directly to them". Well, after another 20 minutes on a silent hold (where I couldn't be sure that I was still connected), I did get to talk to a Newport customer service representative. She explained that the wait time was abnormally high due to Vanguard sending out statements showing a zero balance in 403b accounts that had been moved to Newport.

She was very friendly and helpful, but in the end I decided to transfer the money to Fidelity. My Vanguard 403b from a previous employer had been my first choice, but due to switching jobs I had a Fidelity account as an option. I believe the fees on the Fidelity account are comparable to Vanguard and I found the customer service at Fidelity to be outstanding. I never thought I would choose them over Vanguard as I have encouraged everyone who asks me about investing to go Vanguard. This move to outsource 403b accounts does not seem to match the customer service excellence that I have grown to expect from Vanguard. I hope it is not a trend.

Anonymous Coward
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:10 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by Anonymous Coward » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:24 am

Zakry72 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:41 am
[...] in the end I decided to transfer the money to Fidelity. My Vanguard 403b from a previous employer had been my first choice, but due to switching jobs I had a Fidelity account as an option. I believe the fees on the Fidelity account are comparable to Vanguard and I found the customer service at Fidelity to be outstanding. I never thought I would choose them over Vanguard as I have encouraged everyone who asks me about investing to go Vanguard. This move to outsource 403b accounts does not seem to match the customer service excellence that I have grown to expect from Vanguard. [...]
I just looked at the Fidelity "Freedom" funds, which are parallel to the Vanguard Target Date funds. For my horizon, I have assets in VTTHX, which has an expense ratio of 15 bps. The comparable Fidelity fund (FJLSX) has an expense ratio of 75 bps, making it five times more expensive.

I know that 15 bps can be cut by converting to Admiral shares and doing the rebalancing myself, but to be direct I have always found it is very easy to put it off. It's hard to know when to sell, and doing it mindlessly according to some arbitrary dates on a calendar makes me wonder if there is a better way.

While my experience with Newport Group service has been uniformly negative, and it makes me consider rolling over all our assets from Vanguard if there was a decent alternative, the fact is, there isn't a decent alternative. So unfortunately, it looks like I'll be sucking it up. What else can I do?

User avatar
FiveK
Posts: 4857
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:43 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by FiveK » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:28 am

Anonymous Coward wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:24 am
I just looked at the Fidelity "Freedom" funds....
The Fidelity Freedom Index funds would provide a fairer comparison.

Anonymous Coward
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:10 pm

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by Anonymous Coward » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:36 am

FiveK wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:28 am
Anonymous Coward wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:24 am
I just looked at the Fidelity "Freedom" funds....
The Fidelity Freedom Index funds would provide a fairer comparison.
No, I'm not comparing Vanguard Admiral shares in some index fund with Fidelity Freedom funds. I'm comparing a Vanguard Target Retirement 2035 Fund (VTTHX) with a Fidelity Flex Freedom 2035 Fund (FJLSX). Fidelity Freedom 2035 (FFTHX) has the same 75 bps expense ratio.

====================

Now I see. Gosh, Fidelity has a few 2035 funds. And you're right, FIHFX has a comparable expense ratio, 15 bps. Maybe if Fidelity offers a decent promo, I'll consider rolling everything over from Vanguard. Never thought I'd be thinking such as that, but what can I say?

Nate79
Posts: 2569
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:24 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Vanguard 403b Changes

Post by Nate79 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:27 am

Anonymous Coward wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:36 am
FiveK wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:28 am
Anonymous Coward wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:24 am
I just looked at the Fidelity "Freedom" funds....
The Fidelity Freedom Index funds would provide a fairer comparison.
No, I'm not comparing Vanguard Admiral shares in some index fund with Fidelity Freedom funds. I'm comparing a Vanguard Target Retirement 2035 Fund (VTTHX) with a Fidelity Flex Freedom 2035 Fund (FJLSX). Fidelity Freedom 2035 (FFTHX) has the same 75 bps expense ratio.

====================

Now I see. Gosh, Fidelity has a few 2035 funds. And you're right, FIHFX has a comparable expense ratio, 15 bps. Maybe if Fidelity offers a decent promo, I'll consider rolling everything over from Vanguard. Never thought I'd be thinking such as that, but what can I say?
Fidelity has both active and index funds. They are really tricky and you have to make sure INDEX is in the fund name.

Post Reply