To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
User avatar
FrugalInvestor
Posts: 4847
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:20 am

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by FrugalInvestor » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:46 pm

Comment deleted.
Last edited by FrugalInvestor on Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
IGNORE the noise! | Our life is frittered away by detail... simplify, simplify. - Henry David Thoreau

DoTheMath
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:11 pm
Location: The Plains

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by DoTheMath » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:48 pm

First off, congratulations! Such an offer speaks volumes about you and your work. Well earned!

It sounds like it more or less hinges on the retention offer. If your current U. can get reasonably close, then staying sounds more appealing. Being in a good department with good colleagues, having the resources to be professionally successful (evidently!), and living in an area you like, are all very good things to have and a rare combo in academia. Personally I would be quite reluctant to give that up.

One thing which would tip things the other way is if there was a commitment at the new place to build up in your area. If this is part of a cluster hire, for example, and you have the chance to build a group of several faculty in the area, then that could be appealing. If it becomes known as a great place to do Zebra Studies, then grad students and postdocs will be interested in coming even if the rest of the department/university isn't quite as well known.

You mentioned the grandparents as being close by the new place, but how close? My sister and brother live ~.75 hr and ~1.5 hrs from my folks and I know they see and babysit my sister's kids probably 3x as often. Partly because of circumstances, but also the travel difference is already enough to make it much less convenient. I would think about how often they would actually see the kids in practice. Buying a condo in your current city so they can make long visits when they like might be more appealing all around.
“I am losing precious days. I am degenerating into a machine for making money. I am learning nothing in this trivial world of men. I must break away and get out into the mountains...” -- John Muir

inbox788
Posts: 5377
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by inbox788 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:21 pm

tarheel wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:04 am
My outside offer is from a private institution with deep pockets. The offer is very aggressive salary-wise, and we would have grandparents in the area. However, the institution is significantly weaker in my research area and it would likely negatively affect my group's research, at least in the short term. That will make it harder to maintain visibility of the research program, secure external funding, etc....making my job more challenging.
I'd stay put. It's seems like it has a better long term overall outlook. If you're planning on a career change, then taking the easy money might make sense now. Don't expect a public institution to come close, because it probably can't. Is a little improvement sufficient is really the question.

User avatar
tarheel
Posts: 363
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:33 am

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by tarheel » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:13 am

anonenigma wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:15 pm
Presumably you have a defined benefit pension plan at your public university? Presumably only a defined contribution planning at the private that’s recruiting you? Difference will be substantial.
Defined contribution at the private, but higher contribution %.

User avatar
tarheel
Posts: 363
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:33 am

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by tarheel » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:16 am

DoTheMath wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:48 pm
First off, congratulations! Such an offer speaks volumes about you and your work. Well earned!

It sounds like it more or less hinges on the retention offer. If your current U. can get reasonably close, then staying sounds more appealing. Being in a good department with good colleagues, having the resources to be professionally successful (evidently!), and living in an area you like, are all very good things to have and a rare combo in academia. Personally I would be quite reluctant to give that up.

One thing which would tip things the other way is if there was a commitment at the new place to build up in your area. If this is part of a cluster hire, for example, and you have the chance to build a group of several faculty in the area, then that could be appealing. If it becomes known as a great place to do Zebra Studies, then grad students and postdocs will be interested in coming even if the rest of the department/university isn't quite as well known.

You mentioned the grandparents as being close by the new place, but how close? My sister and brother live ~.75 hr and ~1.5 hrs from my folks and I know they see and babysit my sister's kids probably 3x as often. Partly because of circumstances, but also the travel difference is already enough to make it much less convenient. I would think about how often they would actually see the kids in practice. Buying a condo in your current city so they can make long visits when they like might be more appealing all around.
It would be about 1 hour away. I'd expect the grandparents to come over every week, maybe twice a week. They love the kids.

User avatar
tcassette
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:20 pm
Location: Southeast Tennessee

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by tcassette » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:19 pm

If your current employer is preparing a retention offer because you told them you are considering a move, why aren't they paying you more already? In other threads concerning job offers in fields outside academia, most people say "retention" offers by current employers are the kiss of death, i.e., your career will suffer in the future because of your disloyalty if you stay. Is academia that much different?

DoTheMath
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:11 pm
Location: The Plains

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by DoTheMath » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:01 am

tcassette wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:19 pm
If your current employer is preparing a retention offer because you told them you are considering a move, why aren't they paying you more already? In other threads concerning job offers in fields outside academia, most people say "retention" offers by current employers are the kiss of death, i.e., your career will suffer in the future because of your disloyalty if you stay. Is academia that much different?
In my experience, it's completely different. At most universities, excluding promotion in rank to Associate or Full professor, pretty much the only time you receive a substantial raise is as part of a retention package because you have an offer from somewhere else (or at least an interview or other strong interest). This is widely understood. Reasonable people don't hold it against a person if they handle the situation professionally.
“I am losing precious days. I am degenerating into a machine for making money. I am learning nothing in this trivial world of men. I must break away and get out into the mountains...” -- John Muir

User avatar
Clever_Username
Posts: 1042
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:24 am
Location: Southern California

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by Clever_Username » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:20 am

DoTheMath wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:01 am
tcassette wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:19 pm
If your current employer is preparing a retention offer because you told them you are considering a move, why aren't they paying you more already? In other threads concerning job offers in fields outside academia, most people say "retention" offers by current employers are the kiss of death, i.e., your career will suffer in the future because of your disloyalty if you stay. Is academia that much different?
In my experience, it's completely different. At most universities, excluding promotion in rank to Associate or Full professor, pretty much the only time you receive a substantial raise is as part of a retention package because you have an offer from somewhere else (or at least an interview or other strong interest). This is widely understood. Reasonable people don't hold it against a person if they handle the situation professionally.
I might be getting off-topic, but how does one handle this situation professionally? I figure that's information I may want to know in case it comes up for me too.
"What was true then is true now. Have a plan. Stick to it." -- XXXX, _Layer Cake_

DoTheMath
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:11 pm
Location: The Plains

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by DoTheMath » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:05 am

Clever_Username wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:20 am
DoTheMath wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:01 am
tcassette wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:19 pm
If your current employer is preparing a retention offer because you told them you are considering a move, why aren't they paying you more already? In other threads concerning job offers in fields outside academia, most people say "retention" offers by current employers are the kiss of death, i.e., your career will suffer in the future because of your disloyalty if you stay. Is academia that much different?
In my experience, it's completely different. At most universities, excluding promotion in rank to Associate or Full professor, pretty much the only time you receive a substantial raise is as part of a retention package because you have an offer from somewhere else (or at least an interview or other strong interest). This is widely understood. Reasonable people don't hold it against a person if they handle the situation professionally.
I might be getting off-topic, but how does one handle this situation professionally? I figure that's information I may want to know in case it comes up for me too.
Obviously it will vary quite a bit depending on individual circumstances. Mainly try to be reasonably open, respectful of the people both at your current place and the new place, and work with people in good faith.

The sorts of things which will burn bridges are egregiously excessive demands, threatening to leave if you don't get X and then not leave when you don't get X, accepting an offer and later withdrawing, playing the two off of each other excessively when it's clear you really only are interested in one of them, etc.

Of course if you don't care if people think you're a jerk, then feel free to do any or all of the the above. Just like anywhere, if you're good enough at what you do, people will put up with lots of diva behavior.
“I am losing precious days. I am degenerating into a machine for making money. I am learning nothing in this trivial world of men. I must break away and get out into the mountains...” -- John Muir

maylikesun
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:46 pm

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by maylikesun » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:20 am

I think the quality of students is indeed an important factor to consider cos that will directly affect your productivity. However, if you are already quite visible in the field, maybe you can also hire postdocs. In that situation, your own academic reputation and the location of the university will matter more.
Since both positions are hard money positions, I will also weight more on the start-up package and the resources you can get from the new institute, and whether your retention offer from current department will give you more money and resources.

student
Posts: 2504
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by student » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:27 am

DoTheMath wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:05 am
Clever_Username wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:20 am
DoTheMath wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:01 am
tcassette wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:19 pm
If your current employer is preparing a retention offer because you told them you are considering a move, why aren't they paying you more already? In other threads concerning job offers in fields outside academia, most people say "retention" offers by current employers are the kiss of death, i.e., your career will suffer in the future because of your disloyalty if you stay. Is academia that much different?
In my experience, it's completely different. At most universities, excluding promotion in rank to Associate or Full professor, pretty much the only time you receive a substantial raise is as part of a retention package because you have an offer from somewhere else (or at least an interview or other strong interest). This is widely understood. Reasonable people don't hold it against a person if they handle the situation professionally.
I might be getting off-topic, but how does one handle this situation professionally? I figure that's information I may want to know in case it comes up for me too.
Obviously it will vary quite a bit depending on individual circumstances. Mainly try to be reasonably open, respectful of the people both at your current place and the new place, and work with people in good faith.

The sorts of things which will burn bridges are egregiously excessive demands, threatening to leave if you don't get X and then not leave when you don't get X, accepting an offer and later withdrawing, playing the two off of each other excessively when it's clear you really only are interested in one of them, etc.

Of course if you don't care if people think you're a jerk, then feel free to do any or all of the the above. Just like anywhere, if you're good enough at what you do, people will put up with lots of diva behavior.
+1. This is very accurate.

User avatar
Clever_Username
Posts: 1042
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:24 am
Location: Southern California

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by Clever_Username » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:57 pm

DoTheMath wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:05 am

Obviously it will vary quite a bit depending on individual circumstances. Mainly try to be reasonably open, respectful of the people both at your current place and the new place, and work with people in good faith.

The sorts of things which will burn bridges are egregiously excessive demands, threatening to leave if you don't get X and then not leave when you don't get X, accepting an offer and later withdrawing, playing the two off of each other excessively when it's clear you really only are interested in one of them, etc.

Of course if you don't care if people think you're a jerk, then feel free to do any or all of the the above. Just like anywhere, if you're good enough at what you do, people will put up with lots of diva behavior.
Thank you! It's probably unlikely that I'll get an offer like that, but it's good to be prepared in case I do.
"What was true then is true now. Have a plan. Stick to it." -- XXXX, _Layer Cake_

deikel
Posts: 551
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:13 pm

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by deikel » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:23 pm

Is Tenure still a consideration or ticked off already ?

If the new place is 2x the salary and does include tenure than I would argue its a no brainer. The perceived lower reputation of the new place in your area should be compensated for with more external collaboration - yes, that's more stress, but also more valuable for later on if you think along further career steps.

You would be paid for out of the endowment and not some temporary surge money, right ?

Moving and setting up your group anew always gives opportunity to prune out unnecessary items/people/research aspects and focus on the next 5-10 years in your set-up, I would argue that is almost always a plus and gains you focus in your work.

Yes, you are leaving behind a great place, but (assuming based on your kids being little) you are still young and would benefit from any move on your CV. Or the other way round, you seem too young (and probably too successful) to bunker down already and ride into retirement.

Having the grandparents around is icing and your wife might appreciate once (and if) you wants to get back to some work.
Everything you read in this post is my personal opinion. If you disagree with this disclaimer, please un-read the text immidiatly and destroy any copy or remembrance of it.

deikel
Posts: 551
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:13 pm

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by deikel » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:31 pm

tcassette wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:19 pm
If your current employer is preparing a retention offer because you told them you are considering a move, why aren't they paying you more already? In other threads concerning job offers in fields outside academia, most people say "retention" offers by current employers are the kiss of death, i.e., your career will suffer in the future because of your disloyalty if you stay. Is academia that much different?
Yes, very much so. Your salary is much more determined by committee than by a direct supervisor asking for more money for a productive employee. Formalized offer from outside helps moving along the urgency much better and results in funds becoming available from way up top (since you actually make the University money when you bring in grants thanks to the overhead proportion in the grant). Accepting those retention offers have a whole different connotation than in industry, more a batch of honor really.

At the same token, some outside offers are doctored to provide opportunity to advance (friends of friends of the Dean). Some outside offers will never be accepted (and are understood as such) and some are not even worth the paper they stand on (if an internal candidate is supposed to get the job) - there is a whole lot of ugly underbelly to these things. Its not a 'free market' by any stretch of the imagination.
Everything you read in this post is my personal opinion. If you disagree with this disclaimer, please un-read the text immidiatly and destroy any copy or remembrance of it.

Sandi_k
Posts: 773
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 11:55 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by Sandi_k » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:44 pm

I've worked in academia at a top-tier university, and I'd say that the important elements are:

- Base salary

- Summer Salary support

- Research support - which institution does better at supporting grant activity? Does the "new" offer come from a Univ. that is successful with NIH/NSF applications in general?

- GRADUATE STUDENT quality. We've had several PhD students graduate and go off to second-tier universities for a tenure-track job, and be stunned at the lack of intellectual rigor and devotion to inquiry for inquiry's sake at those universities. If you cannot hire first-class student researchers, your research will suffer.

- Housing or downpayment support?

- Public vs. private school for your kids?

- Pension or Defined Contribution?

- Teaching relief/workload/course prep negotiations

- Colleagues. We have a "no asshole" rule in my unit, and it's been excellent. Not all fields have this rule. ;)

Personally, IIWY, I would be hesitant to go to a second-tier research department at this stage in your career. In general, I'd get the Google Scholar citations up, make sure that you're serving as a referee to at least one of the field's Top 3 journals now, and build your profile over the next 5 years with first-class PhDs. And then go on the market in 5 years when it's clear that YOUR research is top-tier, your have national grants that are prestigious, and people are less inclined to forget you just because you're at a second-tier university.

Best of luck!

User avatar
tarheel
Posts: 363
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:33 am

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by tarheel » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:50 pm

deikel wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:31 pm
tcassette wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:19 pm
If your current employer is preparing a retention offer because you told them you are considering a move, why aren't they paying you more already? In other threads concerning job offers in fields outside academia, most people say "retention" offers by current employers are the kiss of death, i.e., your career will suffer in the future because of your disloyalty if you stay. Is academia that much different?
Yes, very much so. Your salary is much more determined by committee than by a direct supervisor asking for more money for a productive employee. Formalized offer from outside helps moving along the urgency much better and results in funds becoming available from way up top (since you actually make the University money when you bring in grants thanks to the overhead proportion in the grant). Accepting those retention offers have a whole different connotation than in industry, more a batch of honor really.

At the same token, some outside offers are doctored to provide opportunity to advance (friends of friends of the Dean). Some outside offers will never be accepted (and are understood as such) and some are not even worth the paper they stand on (if an internal candidate is supposed to get the job) - there is a whole lot of ugly underbelly to these things. Its not a 'free market' by any stretch of the imagination.
Exactly. Nothing weird with my current department, I've put all of my cards on the table the whole way. If anything, an outside offer will increase my reputation in the department. Shows you're valued elsewhere.

User avatar
tarheel
Posts: 363
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:33 am

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by tarheel » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:55 pm

Sandi_k wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:44 pm
I've worked in academia at a top-tier university, and I'd say that the important elements are:

- Base salary

- Summer Salary support

- Research support - which institution does better at supporting grant activity? Does the "new" offer come from a Univ. that is successful with NIH/NSF applications in general?

- GRADUATE STUDENT quality. We've had several PhD students graduate and go off to second-tier universities for a tenure-track job, and be stunned at the lack of intellectual rigor and devotion to inquiry for inquiry's sake at those universities. If you cannot hire first-class student researchers, your research will suffer.

- Housing or downpayment support?

- Public vs. private school for your kids?

- Pension or Defined Contribution?

- Teaching relief/workload/course prep negotiations

- Colleagues. We have a "no asshole" rule in my unit, and it's been excellent. Not all fields have this rule. ;)

Personally, IIWY, I would be hesitant to go to a second-tier research department at this stage in your career. In general, I'd get the Google Scholar citations up, make sure that you're serving as a referee to at least one of the field's Top 3 journals now, and build your profile over the next 5 years with first-class PhDs. And then go on the market in 5 years when it's clear that YOUR research is top-tier, your have national grants that are prestigious, and people are less inclined to forget you just because you're at a second-tier university.

Best of luck!
Thanks for the helpful comments. I would say that my group is a bit more established than I've let on - we're already checked off all of the marks in your last paragraph. I don't think my group would be forgotten - it'd just take a while before the student quality increases if my group moves, and it'd be more work from my end rather than coasting where we are now. No questions that the student quality where I would move is a bit lower. Maybe 6.5/10 on average instead of 9/10.

tch_usa
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:07 am

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by tch_usa » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:44 pm

Sandi_k wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:44 pm


- GRADUATE STUDENT quality. We've had several PhD students graduate and go off to second-tier universities for a tenure-track job, and be stunned at the lack of intellectual rigor and devotion to inquiry for inquiry's sake at those universities. If you cannot hire first-class student researchers, your research will suffer.
Expanding this point:
Does your current department offer more fellowships or other support to incoming graduate students than the new department? Is the new department willing and able to offer support for incoming graduate students?

Also, does the new department (or your own reputation) carry enough weight that a student coming in with NSF/NIH/NDSEG/etc. will want to come join your new department as opposed to going and joining your current department?

MandyT
Posts: 186
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:29 pm

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by MandyT » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:36 pm

Have you considered trying the new position while taking a year's unpaid leave of absence from your current school? My situation was a bit different, but I got to a point when I was unhappy with several aspects of the town and school environment and was ready to leave my tenured position. My department chair pointed out that I wouldn't really lose anything by taking a leave of absence. It only took me a couple of months to realize that the thing that made the most sense for me would be to go back. Fortunately, everything worked out well after that. I kept my tenure, benefits, and seniority--all I lost was the one year of service when I wasn't working.

DoTheMath
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:11 pm
Location: The Plains

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by DoTheMath » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:06 am

MandyT wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:36 pm
Have you considered trying the new position while taking a year's unpaid leave of absence from your current school? My situation was a bit different, but I got to a point when I was unhappy with several aspects of the town and school environment and was ready to leave my tenured position. My department chair pointed out that I wouldn't really lose anything by taking a leave of absence. It only took me a couple of months to realize that the thing that made the most sense for me would be to go back. Fortunately, everything worked out well after that. I kept my tenure, benefits, and seniority--all I lost was the one year of service when I wasn't working.
This is a good point. I expect the OP knows this already, but maybe not others who are reading. In academia it is quite common to take a leave of absence for a year (and possibly longer) from your current employer to take up a new position. This makes moving a lower risk proposition than in industry. Although moving is such a huge project, especially if you are in the lab sciences and/or are moving grad students and others in addition to yourself, moving back again is pretty rare.

P.S. I hope Tarheel lets us know how it all turns out!
“I am losing precious days. I am degenerating into a machine for making money. I am learning nothing in this trivial world of men. I must break away and get out into the mountains...” -- John Muir

mak1277
Posts: 772
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:26 pm

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by mak1277 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:16 am

Do you enjoy "change" or do you like the status quo?

Personally, if something is a truly a coin flip, I'm always going to choose the side of change. Adding variety, living somewhere new, experiencing different people, places and things...these have value to me. Staying in the same place forever sounds like a prison sentence.

KeepinItPositive
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:46 am

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by KeepinItPositive » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:33 pm

Any updates?

User avatar
tarheel
Posts: 363
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:33 am

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by tarheel » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:07 am

MandyT wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:36 pm
Have you considered trying the new position while taking a year's unpaid leave of absence from your current school? My situation was a bit different, but I got to a point when I was unhappy with several aspects of the town and school environment and was ready to leave my tenured position. My department chair pointed out that I wouldn't really lose anything by taking a leave of absence. It only took me a couple of months to realize that the thing that made the most sense for me would be to go back. Fortunately, everything worked out well after that. I kept my tenure, benefits, and seniority--all I lost was the one year of service when I wasn't working.
Wouldn't work in this case.....have to move or not.

User avatar
tarheel
Posts: 363
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:33 am

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by tarheel » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:08 am

mak1277 wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:16 am
Do you enjoy "change" or do you like the status quo?

Personally, if something is a truly a coin flip, I'm always going to choose the side of change. Adding variety, living somewhere new, experiencing different people, places and things...these have value to me. Staying in the same place forever sounds like a prison sentence.
I agree with this on some level....

User avatar
tarheel
Posts: 363
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:33 am

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by tarheel » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:08 am

KeepinItPositive wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:33 pm
Any updates?
Should know more about the retention package this week......I'll check back in when I have more details. Thanks for the help and interest everyone! :sharebeer

User avatar
tarheel
Posts: 363
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:33 am

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by tarheel » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:21 pm

Ok, got the retention package. It is very fair. Significant salary bump (>50%). An amount of $ that would make a real difference for the family. Not quite at the level of the private school, but in the same general ballpark.

Any helpful comments welcome....thanks everyone.

CFOKevin
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:07 pm

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by CFOKevin » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:26 pm

What is your wife's preference now?

I'd do that.

Good Luck,

Kevin

User avatar
TxAg
Posts: 1268
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:09 am

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by TxAg » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:57 pm

tarheel wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:21 pm
Ok, got the retention package. It is very fair. Significant salary bump (>50%). An amount of $ that would make a real difference for the family. Not quite at the level of the private school, but in the same general ballpark.

Any helpful comments welcome....thanks everyone.
Maybe I'm a homebody, but >50% to stay put and stay comfy sounds pretty good.

Barefoot
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by Barefoot » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:58 pm

Mrs Barefoot is a big fish in a small pond.
Grad student and postdoc quality are very important to her.
Money is nice, but it didn't drive any of the life decisions we've made.

Having said that, we decided that the most important thing was where we wanted to live.

DoTheMath
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:11 pm
Location: The Plains

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by DoTheMath » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:58 pm

tarheel wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:21 pm
Ok, got the retention package. It is very fair. Significant salary bump (>50%). An amount of $ that would make a real difference for the family. Not quite at the level of the private school, but in the same general ballpark.

Any helpful comments welcome....thanks everyone.
It sounds like the salary is reasonably close. There are lots of things more important than pay. I'd go with whichever is best for you and your family, both professionally and personally.
“I am losing precious days. I am degenerating into a machine for making money. I am learning nothing in this trivial world of men. I must break away and get out into the mountains...” -- John Muir

User avatar
TxAg
Posts: 1268
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:09 am

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by TxAg » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:57 pm

Update?

User avatar
tarheel
Posts: 363
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:33 am

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by tarheel » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:13 pm

TxAg wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:57 pm
Update?
I have the final offer from my present institution, and at this point we would accept it if nothing changes. It is fair, but not overly aggressive.

I have communicated this to the private school, and they are currently meeting with administration and trying to do everything they can to increase their offer. If it was good enough, we will have to strongly consider moving.

I really just continue to struggle with the choice. I know that my career will be a bit more challenging with the move - on a 10 point scale I rate my current institution a 9 in my field, with the private institution a 6.5-7, but I'll add to that and we would be hiring more in the near future (although probably not directly in my field). With a happier family (three young children and potentially still growing) and significantly more $ to support everyone, at some point I have to just take the jump, right?

KeepinItPositive
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:46 am

Re: To Move or Not To Move - Couldn't be more of a Coinflip! (Help Please)

Post by KeepinItPositive » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:49 pm

Any updates? If you are well taken care of at both places, I'd go wherever you think your family would be most happy.


If you left, and found that you weren't as happy because the new school didn't have as good of students, facilities, etc, do you think you could move back in say 5 years to your current university? If yes, that might be worth thinking about. I know of some academics that have done that and it worked out well for them.

Best of luck. Congrats for being so valuable that you now have to excellent options. :sharebeer

Post Reply