Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

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MO MAN
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:28 am

Looking at the bond index funds, one that was mentioned earlier is VBTLX. With our government now almost 20 trillion dollars in debt and no way out, why would we want to own a index fund with what looks like almost all gov bonds? would corporate bonds be better? Or will Gov bonds look better in the future for some reason? It looks like more managed funds do better with bonds. Just curious.

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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by LadyGeek » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:40 am

I removed some off-topic comments. As a reminder, this is a "no politics" forum. See: Politics and Religion
In order to avoid the inevitable frictions that arise from these topics, political or religious posts and comments are prohibited. The only exceptions to this rule are:
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  • Proposed regulations that are directly related to investing may be discussed if and when they are published for public comments.
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2pedals
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by 2pedals » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:43 am

Why did you dump your advisor?

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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by FrugalInvestor » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:49 am

Mo Man you are right. If this is money that you don't and won't ever actually need then it really doesn't matter what you do with it. In that case this is probably not the best forum for you - not because you're not welcome but because most of us are not in your position and so have a much different perspective and goals than you.
IGNORE the noise! | Our life is frittered away by detail... simplify, simplify. - Henry David Thoreau

MO MAN
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:58 am

2pedals wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:43 am
Why did you dump your advisor?
Kept pushing us to sell our stocks into High ER funds with front loads, and since he was the financial guy I made the mistake of trusting him to make good decisions on our behalf, expensive mistake after looking at the calculator. Finally sat down and actually looked at what we owned and said enough was enough. So busy building a business over the years, never even looked at the stuff. He retired and his successor kept with the same program. After looking at some forums like this one, I made the leap last year.

MO MAN
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:02 am

FrugalInvestor wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:49 am
Mo Man you are right. If this is money that you don't and won't ever actually need then it really doesn't matter what you do with it. In that case this is probably not the best forum for you - not because you're not welcome but because most of us are not in your position and so have a much different perspective and goals than you.
Maybe it isn't the right place for me, but there are so many smart guys on here I thought I could pick up a few things. And I have, I will look at more Bonds in the future, never really gave them any thought until now. But I can see when I get close to retire, they may be where more of my money goes. Got to thank the guys on here for that!

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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by FrugalInvestor » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:17 am

MO MAN wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:02 am
FrugalInvestor wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:49 am
Mo Man you are right. If this is money that you don't and won't ever actually need then it really doesn't matter what you do with it. In that case this is probably not the best forum for you - not because you're not welcome but because most of us are not in your position and so have a much different perspective and goals than you.
Maybe it isn't the right place for me, but there are so many smart guys on here I thought I could pick up a few things. And I have, I will look at more Bonds in the future, never really gave them any thought until now. But I can see when I get close to retire, they may be where more of my money goes. Got to thank the guys on here for that!
Why? Again you don't and won't ever need the money and you like speculating, picking the 'hot' sectors, etc. In other words, this is a hobby for you and risk or even return is of no concern. Bonds just don't seem to fit the bill.
IGNORE the noise! | Our life is frittered away by detail... simplify, simplify. - Henry David Thoreau

2pedals
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by 2pedals » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:20 am

MO MAN wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:58 am
2pedals wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:43 am
Why did you dump your advisor?
Kept pushing us to sell our stocks into High ER funds with front loads, and since he was the financial guy I made the mistake of trusting him to make good decisions on our behalf, expensive mistake after looking at the calculator. Finally sat down and actually looked at what we owned and said enough was enough. So busy building a business over the years, never even looked at the stuff. He retired and his successor kept with the same program. After looking at some forums like this one, I made the leap last year.
This is a great decision :sharebeer

Originally you trusted you advisor in making good decisions in your behalf because you admitted you were not willing to invest your time in it. Now you have the time and confidence make your our decisions, excellent. Just don't blow money around thinking your gut feelings are any better than all of the army of analysts and professionals that try and can't beat index funds on a long term basis.

MO MAN
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:27 am

2pedals wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:20 am
MO MAN wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:58 am
2pedals wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:43 am
Why did you dump your advisor?
Kept pushing us to sell our stocks into High ER funds with front loads, and since he was the financial guy I made the mistake of trusting him to make good decisions on our behalf, expensive mistake after looking at the calculator. Finally sat down and actually looked at what we owned and said enough was enough. So busy building a business over the years, never even looked at the stuff. He retired and his successor kept with the same program. After looking at some forums like this one, I made the leap last year.
This is a great decision :sharebeer

Originally you trusted you advisor in making good decisions in your behalf because you admitted you were not willing to invest your time in it. Now you have the time and confidence make your our decisions, excellent. Just don't blow money around thinking your gut feelings are any better than all of the army of analysts and professionals that try and can't beat index funds on a long term basis.
Was young and dumb at the time and trusted someone, but so did a lot of people with Madoff. I just did not have the time, we both worked full time jobs and started a business 30 years ago nights and weekends. Now that I retired from construction and just run our business, I have time to look at more things closer. I tell everyone that works for me know, its ok to trust, but verify. I do like the index funds I have now as I said, no more stocks for me.

MO MAN
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:38 am

FrugalInvestor wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:17 am
MO MAN wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:02 am
FrugalInvestor wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:49 am
Mo Man you are right. If this is money that you don't and won't ever actually need then it really doesn't matter what you do with it. In that case this is probably not the best forum for you - not because you're not welcome but because most of us are not in your position and so have a much different perspective and goals than you.
Maybe it isn't the right place for me, but there are so many smart guys on here I thought I could pick up a few things. And I have, I will look at more Bonds in the future, never really gave them any thought until now. But I can see when I get close to retire, they may be where more of my money goes. Got to thank the guys on here for that!
Why? Again you don't and won't ever need the money and you like speculating, picking the 'hot' sectors, etc. In other words, this is a hobby for you and risk or even return is of no concern. Bonds just don't seem to fit the bill.
Your right bonds don't fit the bill right now for me, but maybe they will in the future. Who knows? This is more than a hobby, if I don't do as well as the suggested 3 fund in the next ten years, so be it, I am just happy I did not own any bonds so far in the past 30 years. But if others are happy with bonds, great. I will be happy for everyone of the 3 fund guys when they pass me by! Pretty happy so far with the 3 index funds I have right now!

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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by FrugalInvestor » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:57 am

MO MAN wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:38 am
FrugalInvestor wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:17 am
MO MAN wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:02 am
FrugalInvestor wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:49 am
Mo Man you are right. If this is money that you don't and won't ever actually need then it really doesn't matter what you do with it. In that case this is probably not the best forum for you - not because you're not welcome but because most of us are not in your position and so have a much different perspective and goals than you.
Maybe it isn't the right place for me, but there are so many smart guys on here I thought I could pick up a few things. And I have, I will look at more Bonds in the future, never really gave them any thought until now. But I can see when I get close to retire, they may be where more of my money goes. Got to thank the guys on here for that!
Why? Again you don't and won't ever need the money and you like speculating, picking the 'hot' sectors, etc. In other words, this is a hobby for you and risk or even return is of no concern. Bonds just don't seem to fit the bill.
Your right bonds don't fit the bill right now for me, but maybe they will in the future. Who knows? This is more than a hobby, if I don't do as well as the suggested 3 fund in the next ten years, so be it, I am just happy I did not own any bonds so far in the past 30 years. But if others are happy with bonds, great. I will be happy for everyone of the 3 fund guys when they pass me by! Pretty happy so far with the 3 index funds I have right now!
Given your description of your situation I just can't figure out what you're trying to achieve. Picking up ideas is all well and good but without specific goals there is no way for you or us to figure out if those ideas will actually help you get to where you want to be. You say that you don't and won't actually need the money that you're investing but you also say that the investing you're doing is more than a hobby. These statements seem contradictory to me. Am I missing something?
IGNORE the noise! | Our life is frittered away by detail... simplify, simplify. - Henry David Thoreau

JBTX
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by JBTX » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:19 pm

MO MAN, all due respect if you have been following here a while it doesn’t seem like you’ve been paying attention. You want to jump into sector funds, like to speculate, think the stock market is “gambling” and are worried about the 0.15 percent fee of a life strategy fund yet were content to pay 2.0% to a financial advisor for years. There’s a lot you can learn in here but if you just going to do whatever you want then not sure what you are trying to accomplish here.

I know some farmers in MN and their land has done very well. Some time back Shiller (an economist) speculated that farmland may be the next bubble. Those farmers I know, who are good salt of the earth people, have always struggled with their other investments, jumping from advisor to advisor and buying high and selling low. Luckily for them their land has done very well and they are very frugal so they will be fine.

At the risk of stereotyping It may be that farmers are more apt to have a speculative mentality. They have to make judgements of when to buy, sell and hedge that can have very significant impacts on their income. They have to become extremely risk tolerant. A storm can wipe out most of a years income. Commodity prices(and thus their income) can go up or down dramatically from year to year My guess is they take that mentality of active speculation to investing where it almost always fails.

Good luck to you.

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cinghiale
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by cinghiale » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:30 pm

Am I the only one getting the “chasing the rabbit around the field” sense of this thread?

I still don’t think the OP understands the difference between the 3-fund portfolio— (total US stock, total international stock, total US bond, which allows full participation in almost 10,000 publicly traded companies (3637 in US and 6302 international, as of today) and almost 8500 US bonds across types and durations— and just any three Vanguard funds. The former guarantees an investor’s “fair share” of all that the world’s companies are producing and broad participation in the US debt markets, while the latter is simply a three fund guess on which part of the whole may do better than the whole in the indeterminate future.

I do wonder if someone is having on with us?
"We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are." Anais Nin | | "Sometimes the first duty of intelligent men is the restatement of the obvious." George Orwell

MO MAN
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:37 pm

JBTX wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:19 pm
MO MAN, all due respect if you have been following here a while it doesn’t seem like you’ve been paying attention. You want to jump into sector funds, like to speculate, think the stock market is “gambling” and are worried about the 0.15 percent fee of a life strategy fund yet were content to pay 2.0% to a financial advisor for years. There’s a lot you can learn in here but if you just going to do whatever you want then not sure what you are trying to accomplish here.

I know some farmers in MN and their land has done very well. Some time back Shiller (an economist) speculated that farmland may be the next bubble. Those farmers I know, who are good salt of the earth people, have always struggled with their other investments, jumping from advisor to advisor and buying high and selling low. Luckily for them their land has done very well and they are very frugal so they will be fine.

At the risk of stereotyping It may be that farmers are more apt to have a speculative mentality. They have to make judgements of when to buy, sell and hedge that can have very significant impacts on their income. They have to become extremely risk tolerant. A storm can wipe out most of a years income. Commodity prices(and thus their income) can go up or down dramatically from year to year My guess is they take that mentality of active speculation to investing where it almost always fails.

Good luck to you.
But I am not buying high and selling low, I just continue to buy. I have rolled money into the stock market since 1981, Have done very well even though the fee's were high for years. Now I will see what low fee's and continuing speculation in the stock market will get me in the future. Its been pretty good so far, I have to say that! Let er ride!

MO MAN
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:42 pm

cinghiale wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:30 pm
Am I the only one getting the “chasing the rabbit around the field” sense of this thread?

I still don’t think the OP understands the difference between the 3-fund portfolio— (total US stock, total international stock, total US bond, which allows full participation in almost 10,000 publicly traded companies (3637 in US and 6302 international, as of today) and almost 8500 US bonds across types and durations— and just any three Vanguard funds. The former guarantees an investor’s “fair share” of all that the world’s companies are producing and broad participation in the US debt markets, while the latter is simply a three fund guess on which part of the whole may do better than the whole in the indeterminate future.

I do wonder if someone is having on with us?
I fully understand, many of you want slow steady growth, that's just not me. I still think we have some good upswing in the market. Bonds, not so much. We can't judge the future with past results, I get that. But you can't over look the fact the stock market (Dow) has gone from 1,800 to 25,000 since 1981. Let it crash, I will just throw more money at it when it does. Yes, they way I look at things are not the same as yours, but you can cut a pie many ways. Mine is just 3 big pieces from one side right now.

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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by FrugalInvestor » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:46 pm

I agree that what you're doing is perfect for you. I'd just keep doing what you're doing and, as you say, let 'er ride!
IGNORE the noise! | Our life is frittered away by detail... simplify, simplify. - Henry David Thoreau

JBTX
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by JBTX » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:48 pm

MO MAN wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:37 pm
JBTX wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:19 pm
MO MAN, all due respect if you have been following here a while it doesn’t seem like you’ve been paying attention. You want to jump into sector funds, like to speculate, think the stock market is “gambling” and are worried about the 0.15 percent fee of a life strategy fund yet were content to pay 2.0% to a financial advisor for years. There’s a lot you can learn in here but if you just going to do whatever you want then not sure what you are trying to accomplish here.

I know some farmers in MN and their land has done very well. Some time back Shiller (an economist) speculated that farmland may be the next bubble. Those farmers I know, who are good salt of the earth people, have always struggled with their other investments, jumping from advisor to advisor and buying high and selling low. Luckily for them their land has done very well and they are very frugal so they will be fine.

At the risk of stereotyping It may be that farmers are more apt to have a speculative mentality. They have to make judgements of when to buy, sell and hedge that can have very significant impacts on their income. They have to become extremely risk tolerant. A storm can wipe out most of a years income. Commodity prices(and thus their income) can go up or down dramatically from year to year My guess is they take that mentality of active speculation to investing where it almost always fails.

Good luck to you.
But I am not buying high and selling low, I just continue to buy. I have rolled money into the stock market since 1981, Have done very well even though the fee's were high for years. Now I will see what low fee's and continuing speculation in the stock market will get me in the future. Its been pretty good so far, I have to say that! Let er ride!
A 35 year bull market will make everybody look like a genius.

$10000 invested in the S&P in the late 70s is now almost $1 million.

http://quotes.morningstar.com/chart/fun ... ture=en_US

Change above chart to maximum.

MO MAN
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:03 pm

JBTX wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:48 pm
MO MAN wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:37 pm
JBTX wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:19 pm
MO MAN, all due respect if you have been following here a while it doesn’t seem like you’ve been paying attention. You want to jump into sector funds, like to speculate, think the stock market is “gambling” and are worried about the 0.15 percent fee of a life strategy fund yet were content to pay 2.0% to a financial advisor for years. There’s a lot you can learn in here but if you just going to do whatever you want then not sure what you are trying to accomplish here.

I know some farmers in MN and their land has done very well. Some time back Shiller (an economist) speculated that farmland may be the next bubble. Those farmers I know, who are good salt of the earth people, have always struggled with their other investments, jumping from advisor to advisor and buying high and selling low. Luckily for them their land has done very well and they are very frugal so they will be fine.

At the risk of stereotyping It may be that farmers are more apt to have a speculative mentality. They have to make judgements of when to buy, sell and hedge that can have very significant impacts on their income. They have to become extremely risk tolerant. A storm can wipe out most of a years income. Commodity prices(and thus their income) can go up or down dramatically from year to year My guess is they take that mentality of active speculation to investing where it almost always fails.

Good luck to you.
But I am not buying high and selling low, I just continue to buy. I have rolled money into the stock market since 1981, Have done very well even though the fee's were high for years. Now I will see what low fee's and continuing speculation in the stock market will get me in the future. Its been pretty good so far, I have to say that! Let er ride!
A 35 year bull market will make everybody look like a genius.

$10000 invested in the S&P in the late 70s is now almost $1 million.

http://quotes.morningstar.com/chart/fun ... ture=en_US

Change above chart to maximum.
I am smiling about that chunk of money right now Brother!

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Taylor Larimore
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by Taylor Larimore » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:41 pm

I have always taken calculated risks throughout my life.
MO MAN:

Always consider "Consequences."

Best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

FBN2014
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by FBN2014 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:55 pm

MO MAN wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:58 am
2pedals wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:43 am
Why did you dump your advisor?
Kept pushing us to sell our stocks into High ER funds with front loads, and since he was the financial guy I made the mistake of trusting him to make good decisions on our behalf, expensive mistake after looking at the calculator. Finally sat down and actually looked at what we owned and said enough was enough. So busy building a business over the years, never even looked at the stuff. He retired and his successor kept with the same program. After looking at some forums like this one, I made the leap last year.
Was this "advisor" a RIA or IAR with fiduciary responsibilities to you? If so, you may have a legal claim against him for doing what was best for him (to generate commissions) and not for you.
"October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May March, June, December, August and February." - M. Twain

MO MAN
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:56 pm

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:41 pm
I have always taken calculated risks throughout my life.
MO MAN:

Always consider "Consequences."

Best wishes.
Taylor
Trust me, I had 3 kids, even after the old man, said you better think about that son.....the consequences, if you only knew!.......LOL!

MO MAN
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:03 pm

FBN2014 wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:55 pm
MO MAN wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:58 am
2pedals wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:43 am
Why did you dump your advisor?
Kept pushing us to sell our stocks into High ER funds with front loads, and since he was the financial guy I made the mistake of trusting him to make good decisions on our behalf, expensive mistake after looking at the calculator. Finally sat down and actually looked at what we owned and said enough was enough. So busy building a business over the years, never even looked at the stuff. He retired and his successor kept with the same program. After looking at some forums like this one, I made the leap last year.
Was this "advisor" a RIA or IAR with fiduciary responsibilities to you? If so, you may have a legal claim against him for doing what was best for him (to generate commissions) and not for you.


I have no idea what that even is. He worked at the bank, and held a securities license, and I ok'ed everything he did, just never took the time to see what we were getting other than it was a mix of mutual funds. Funds with front loads and high ER we find out later. At the time I thought funds spread out the risk better than owning 3 or 4 stocks. My fault, for not checking more closely, hope everyone checks better than I did starting out. Lots of money was made, but lots was lost with the high fee's!

FBN2014
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:07 pm

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by FBN2014 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:57 pm

MO MAN wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:03 pm
FBN2014 wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:55 pm
MO MAN wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:58 am
2pedals wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:43 am
Why did you dump your advisor?
Kept pushing us to sell our stocks into High ER funds with front loads, and since he was the financial guy I made the mistake of trusting him to make good decisions on our behalf, expensive mistake after looking at the calculator. Finally sat down and actually looked at what we owned and said enough was enough. So busy building a business over the years, never even looked at the stuff. He retired and his successor kept with the same program. After looking at some forums like this one, I made the leap last year.
Was this "advisor" a RIA or IAR with fiduciary responsibilities to you? If so, you may have a legal claim against him for doing what was best for him (to generate commissions) and not for you.


I have no idea what that even is. He worked at the bank, and held a securities license, and I ok'ed everything he did, just never took the time to see what we were getting other than it was a mix of mutual funds. Funds with front loads and high ER we find out later. At the time I thought funds spread out the risk better than owning 3 or 4 stocks. My fault, for not checking more closely, hope everyone checks better than I did starting out. Lots of money was made, but lots was lost with the high fee's!
If he held a Series 65 license then he was a fiduciary. You can check which licenses he held at https://brokercheck.finra.org/ and https://adviserinfo.sec.gov/d
If he was merely a broker then he was only required to use suitable investments for your situation and was free to put you in high commission investments. Since you ok'ed all transactions you would have no action against him or the bank. I'm glad you have seen the folly of your ways and am now a converted boglehead! :happy
"October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May March, June, December, August and February." - M. Twain

MO MAN
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Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:32 pm

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:46 pm

FBN2014 wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:57 pm
MO MAN wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:03 pm
FBN2014 wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:55 pm
MO MAN wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:58 am
2pedals wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:43 am
Why did you dump your advisor?
Kept pushing us to sell our stocks into High ER funds with front loads, and since he was the financial guy I made the mistake of trusting him to make good decisions on our behalf, expensive mistake after looking at the calculator. Finally sat down and actually looked at what we owned and said enough was enough. So busy building a business over the years, never even looked at the stuff. He retired and his successor kept with the same program. After looking at some forums like this one, I made the leap last year.
Was this "advisor" a RIA or IAR with fiduciary responsibilities to you? If so, you may have a legal claim against him for doing what was best for him (to generate commissions) and not for you.


I have no idea what that even is. He worked at the bank, and held a securities license, and I ok'ed everything he did, just never took the time to see what we were getting other than it was a mix of mutual funds. Funds with front loads and high ER we find out later. At the time I thought funds spread out the risk better than owning 3 or 4 stocks. My fault, for not checking more closely, hope everyone checks better than I did starting out. Lots of money was made, but lots was lost with the high fee's!
If he held a Series 65 license then he was a fiduciary. You can check which licenses he held at https://brokercheck.finra.org/ and https://adviserinfo.sec.gov/d
If he was merely a broker then he was only required to use suitable investments for your situation and was free to put you in high commission investments. Since you ok'ed all transactions you would have no action against him or the bank. I'm glad you have seen the folly of your ways and am now a converted boglehead! :happy
Right on! :sharebeer

simpleman1
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by simpleman1 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:06 pm

MO MAN wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:41 pm
Hi Guys, been following you guys for a while, and finally decided to join up, and get my investments in order. And it should have been done a long time ago, as I was paying hi front loads and high ER and at 58 years old, it has cost me a lot of money I see. Won't need any money for about ten years. This is what I have done so far. Opened a account with Vanguard, moved some money in, with more Roll overs to go. My wife and I have invested in these 3 funds, VTSAX, VHCIX, and VITAX. Looking for 3 more good funds with low ER. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
MO MAN, thank you very much for listing VITAX (Vanguard Information Technology Index Fund Admiral Shares) in your original post. I had no idea that this Vanguard fund existed. For some reason I have never seen it on the Vanguard website before.

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nedsaid
Posts: 10231
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:33 pm

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by nedsaid » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:29 pm

MO MAN wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:58 am
2pedals wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:43 am
Why did you dump your advisor?
Kept pushing us to sell our stocks into High ER funds with front loads, and since he was the financial guy I made the mistake of trusting him to make good decisions on our behalf, expensive mistake after looking at the calculator. Finally sat down and actually looked at what we owned and said enough was enough. So busy building a business over the years, never even looked at the stuff. He retired and his successor kept with the same program. After looking at some forums like this one, I made the leap last year.
Congratulations. It takes courage to do this as relationships develop that are hard to sever. Some advisors are better than others, unfortunately the temptation is to churn client accounts to charge commissions. Hard to say how much goes on as there is both regulatory compliance and internal compliance at these firms, I am told there is a lot of scrutiny now on advisor fees. So while I don't believe churning is a thing of the past, there does seem to be more scrutiny.

This is why paying an advisor for his time by the hour is much better than paying an advisor through commissions. It eliminates a big conflict of interest for the advisor, obviously the more turnover in a portfolio, the more commissions, and the more advisor compensation. But again, there appears to be more scrutiny now.

The other problem is that an advisor has to toe the company line. Firms hire economists and market strategist, so there will be a firm viewpoint on the markets and the economy. This limits an advisor's ability to think independently. Firms also have preferred products that they want their representatives to sell. For example, there was a big lawsuit over American Funds paying Edward Jones for "shelf space" at their firm. Ameriprise has a preferred list of funds where certain mutual fund companies pay fees to Ameriprise in exchange for favored status. Ameriprise discloses this but it makes you wonder how objective advisor recommendations are.

Another issue are the sales managers. The pressure on people in the financial industry to meet high goals is pretty intense and advisors are pressured to push certain products. Another problem with conflict of interest.

I use an independent broker, he has fiduciary status, but I do not have an Assets Under Management agreement with him. I make my own decisions with his input but I have never given anyone discretionary powers over my accounts. So he is paid by commission only and seeing that I don't do a lot of trades, I am probably not a very profitable client. There is a certain critical mass of investments an advisor has to have to make it all work and a certain level of fees from each client. I am surprised I have not been dumped by him but he says he treats all clients and accounts the same.

Ultimately, if you need advice, you will have to pay for it one way or another. Time and expertise aren't free. This forum is an excellent source of information and I highly recommend the Boglehead's Books, there is one on Retirement Planning and another on Investing. I also recommend the wiki on this site. As far as the forum itself, you do have to separate the wheat from the chaff as members vary in expertise. Quite often, the advice here is better than what many advisors will provide.
A fool and his money are good for business.

MO MAN
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:32 pm

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:57 pm

simpleman1 wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:06 pm
MO MAN wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:41 pm
Hi Guys, been following you guys for a while, and finally decided to join up, and get my investments in order. And it should have been done a long time ago, as I was paying hi front loads and high ER and at 58 years old, it has cost me a lot of money I see. Won't need any money for about ten years. This is what I have done so far. Opened a account with Vanguard, moved some money in, with more Roll overs to go. My wife and I have invested in these 3 funds, VTSAX, VHCIX, and VITAX. Looking for 3 more good funds with low ER. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
MO MAN, thank you very much for listing VITAX (Vanguard Information Technology Index Fund Admiral Shares) in your original post. I had no idea that this Vanguard fund existed. For some reason I have never seen it on the Vanguard website before.
You are welcome my man!

Been in it for about 10 months, been good so far! :moneybag

MO MAN
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:32 pm

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:10 pm

nedsaid wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:29 pm
MO MAN wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:58 am
2pedals wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:43 am
Why did you dump your advisor?
Kept pushing us to sell our stocks into High ER funds with front loads, and since he was the financial guy I made the mistake of trusting him to make good decisions on our behalf, expensive mistake after looking at the calculator. Finally sat down and actually looked at what we owned and said enough was enough. So busy building a business over the years, never even looked at the stuff. He retired and his successor kept with the same program. After looking at some forums like this one, I made the leap last year.
Congratulations. It takes courage to do this as relationships develop that are hard to sever. Some advisors are better than others, unfortunately the temptation is to churn client accounts to charge commissions. Hard to say how much goes on as there is both regulatory compliance and internal compliance at these firms, I am told there is a lot of scrutiny now on advisor fees. So while I don't believe churning is a thing of the past, there does seem to be more scrutiny.

This is why paying an advisor for his time by the hour is much better than paying an advisor through commissions. It eliminates a big conflict of interest for the advisor, obviously the more turnover in a portfolio, the more commissions, and the more advisor compensation. But again, there appears to be more scrutiny now.

The other problem is that an advisor has to toe the company line. Firms hire economists and market strategist, so there will be a firm viewpoint on the markets and the economy. This limits an advisor's ability to think independently. Firms also have preferred products that they want their representatives to sell. For example, there was a big lawsuit over American Funds paying Edward Jones for "shelf space" at their firm. Ameriprise has a preferred list of funds where certain mutual fund companies pay fees to Ameriprise in exchange for favored status. Ameriprise discloses this but it makes you wonder how objective advisor recommendations are.

Another issue are the sales managers. The pressure on people in the financial industry to meet high goals is pretty intense and advisors are pressured to push certain products. Another problem with conflict of interest.

I use an independent broker, he has fiduciary status, but I do not have an Assets Under Management agreement with him. I make my own decisions with his input but I have never given anyone discretionary powers over my accounts. So he is paid by commission only and seeing that I don't do a lot of trades, I am probably not a very profitable client. There is a certain critical mass of investments an advisor has to have to make it all work and a certain level of fees from each client. I am surprised I have not been dumped by him but he says he treats all clients and accounts the same.

Ultimately, if you need advice, you will have to pay for it one way or another. Time and expertise aren't free. This forum is an excellent source of information and I highly recommend the Boglehead's Books, there is one on Retirement Planning and another on Investing. I also recommend the wiki on this site. As far as the forum itself, you do have to separate the wheat from the chaff as members vary in expertise. Quite often, the advice here is better than what many advisors will provide.
You are correct on the first guy was kinda a friend, I trusted him, and when the next gal came on board when he retired, I decided to start checking out what I really had as she wanted me to move around some money right away. Man did i get a shock after running some calculators and figured out what those commissions really cost me. It took me about 6 weeks to finally get all the paperwork done for all the roll over crap. But I must say, Vanguard was really helpful in getting all the paperwork done and signed in the right spots. I really like that place. I am sure there are other great places to buy mutual funds, but I think I am at the right place for now!

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