Picking College and College Scholarships

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wrongfunds
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by wrongfunds » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:23 am

I understand you were kidding about (some of) the predictions but I will not be surprised if most of your predictions will come true, well except the non-prediction about Stanford! Has he applied to CMU Comp Science? Any other department, and he will get in 100%, probably with some scholarship thrown in. I am extrapolating based upon my son's experience.

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:55 pm

:moneybag :moneybag :moneybag
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:52 am

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:39 am

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shawndoggy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by shawndoggy » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:59 am

**U of IL (engineering) - For U of IL, he got into their Campus Honors Program. It looks attractive. It looks like with APs and some of the perks of the program that he could finish college in 2.5 years, or go longer and work more (co-ops, etc.), or hop right into a PHD program. Anyway, options ... Another thing, from reading online, kids that get into the Campus Honors Program tend to get more merit. Nothing to action right now but interesting.


Do you have a link? In my experience (both kids had substantial AP and/or IB credit, both kids in their universities' honors programs), AP credit won't help you short-circuit engineering curriculum. At most maybe a semester of calculus / physics / chem, but not really enough for 1.5 years off of 4. Just finishing engineering in 4 at a public institution is usually seen as a major accomplishment.

ICBW tho. We never looked at University of Illinois.

ny_knicks
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by ny_knicks » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:28 am

Congrats to your son! Great schools already w/ more to come hopefully.

Couple things to keep in mind when trying to finish early.

1.) Internships typically run over the summer months and are very valuable when it comes time to landing the first job. It is a tough call but not sure I would rush through if it means giving up the opportunity to do a few. Can learn a bit more about what you like/dislike in the profession, it is paid (often well for top kids like your son) and full-time offers at top firms can sometimes be almost completely filled by the summer intern classes.

2.) I am sure you are doing this in the calculations but schools often charge for additional credit hours over ~17. So by cramming in more classes you're really just saving money on r&b.

3.) College is a wonderful experience. Engineering is a grueling major. Trying to complete it in 2.5 years seems like it would leave little if any room to enjoy oneself. A lot of the relationships I made in school will likely carry with me through the rest of my life. And they weren't made at 10 PM on a Friday in the library. There is value to the social/networking aspects of school that might be missed out on if you're in a race to the finish. He has the rest of his life to punch in/out 70 hour weeks in the corporate world.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:35 am

ny_knicks wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:28 am
[snip]
3.) College is a wonderful experience. Engineering is a grueling major. Trying to complete it in 2.5 years seems like it would leave little if any room to enjoy oneself. A lot of the relationships I made in school will likely carry with me through the rest of my life. And they weren't made at 10 PM on a Friday in the library. There is value to the social/networking aspects of school that might be missed out on if you're in a race to the finish. He has the rest of his life to punch in/out 70 hour weeks in the corporate world.
I agree. Your son worked hard to get here. Let him "enjoy" his time in college; it is grueling enough. My son's international network of contacts would not be as strong as it is if he had raced to get out as quickly as possible.

"It's not a question of how soon, but how far."

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:39 am

shawndoggy wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:59 am
**U of IL (engineering) - For U of IL, he got into their Campus Honors Program. It looks attractive. It looks like with APs and some of the perks of the program that he could finish college in 2.5 years, or go longer and work more (co-ops, etc.), or hop right into a PHD program. Anyway, options ... Another thing, from reading online, kids that get into the Campus Honors Program tend to get more merit. Nothing to action right now but interesting.


Do you have a link? In my experience (both kids had substantial AP and/or IB credit, both kids in their universities' honors programs), AP credit won't help you short-circuit engineering curriculum. At most maybe a semester of calculus / physics / chem, but not really enough for 1.5 years off of 4. Just finishing engineering in 4 at a public institution is usually seen as a major accomplishment.

ICBW tho. We never looked at University of Illinois.
Hi. Just two other reference points, kids in a similar situation: one mechanical and the other math.

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by shawndoggy » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:47 am

timmy wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:39 am
Hi. Just two other reference points, kids in a similar situation: one mechanical and the other math.
And they finished in 2.5 years based on AP credit?

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:11 am

We grilled the mechanical engineer more. He took electives at his local community college... Sr. (HS) to Fr. (college) summer and Fr. to So. summer. He worked So. to Jr. year. I believe he got his degree at the end of the 3rd year. So it might be an exaggeration that he graduated in 2.5. They only paid for 2.5 plus the cost of community college. Locally the cost is very low.

I need to check, but there might be proficiency exams for some subjects in order to get out them entirely, like CALC and DIFFY Q. If this is the case, he should be okay passing them.

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by itstoomuch » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:28 pm

JMO, graduating early:
entering the FT workforce ahead of your age cohort offers no financial advantage either in money saved in education or in an additional year in the workforce for retirement purposes.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:47 pm

itstoomuch wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:28 pm
JMO, graduating early:
entering the FT workforce ahead of your age cohort offers no financial advantage either in money saved in education or in an additional year in the workforce for retirement purposes.
Agree 100%. We believe, though, that DS got some benefit from graduating in 4 years with a combined MS/BS in Computer Science. From what I understand, his GF got a bump in starting salary for having earned a combined MA/BA (also in 4 years).

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:10 pm

Not arguing for or against whether it's a good idea or bad idea ...

On the math part, every year not spent in school saves 50K in tuition/ expenses. Assuming one (former student now working) earns 100K, and keeps 50K (25K for taxes and 25K for living expenses), isn't the spread 100k. In terms of who benefits, if I'm paying for school, I save 50K cash. (I would have had to earn 75K to pay the 50K). He keeps roughly 50K of his earned 100K. The logic/ math are crude, but for purposes of an example ... what am I missing? Thx

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:12 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:47 pm
itstoomuch wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:28 pm
JMO, graduating early:
entering the FT workforce ahead of your age cohort offers no financial advantage either in money saved in education or in an additional year in the workforce for retirement purposes.
Agree 100%. We believe, though, that DS got some benefit from graduating in 4 years with a combined MS/BS in Computer Science. From what I understand, his GF got a bump in starting salary for having earned a combined MA/BA (also in 4 years).
I wouldn't mind this. It's just another version of graduate in 3 years ... But instead of working for the 4th year, classes were taken towards a Masters. Smart move!

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:37 pm

timmy wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:12 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:47 pm
itstoomuch wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:28 pm
JMO, graduating early:
entering the FT workforce ahead of your age cohort offers no financial advantage either in money saved in education or in an additional year in the workforce for retirement purposes.
Agree 100%. We believe, though, that DS got some benefit from graduating in 4 years with a combined MS/BS in Computer Science. From what I understand, his GF got a bump in starting salary for having earned a combined MA/BA (also in 4 years).
I wouldn't mind this. It's just another version of graduate in 3 years ... But instead of working for the 4th year, classes were taken towards a Masters. Smart move!
In their cases, departmental approval was required in the 3rd year and a number of graduate courses and papers were additional requirements ( i.e, fewer electives were possible). Still, 4 years and no additional tuition.

ny_knicks
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by ny_knicks » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:47 pm

timmy wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:10 pm
Not arguing for or against whether it's a good idea or bad idea ...

On the math part, every year not spent in school saves 50K in tuition/ expenses. Assuming one (former student now working) earns 100K, and keeps 50K (25K for taxes and 25K for living expenses), isn't the spread 100k. In terms of who benefits, if I'm paying for school, I save 50K cash. (I would have had to earn 75K to pay the 50K). He keeps roughly 50K of his earned 100K. The logic/ math are crude, but for purposes of an example ... what am I missing? Thx
It depends on the required credit hours for his program. AP credits/community college can definitely lower the overall tuition cost. For engineering (was initially in an engineering major before switching to comp sci in undergrad) there were very specific classes that needed to be taken, in a very specific order with little flexibility. Probably tough to get credit for these required classes from AP/community college but I am not sure. My AP credits transferred in as mainly electives.

If he is just taking extra classes during his first few years on campus/over the summers to graduate early those likely aren't included in the tuition costs being quoted by the schools. At the three schools I attended for undergrad/graduate school anytime you broke 17 credit hours per semester you had to pay for those extra credit hours at the same rate you're paying for full-time tuition. Summer/winter classes weren't included at all. So the savings might not be as much as you are counting on. Might save some on Room & Board but you're going to pay for the credit hours regardless of how fast he gets done (unless the AP/community college transfer in and count for requirements in major).

Internships can also be significant sources of income over the summers. Not unheard of to make $25k doing a summer internship. And if you accept an offer while in school you often get a nice sign-on bonus. Recruiting/internships are very structured now. Employers expect to recruit interns Junior fall for the summer between Junior/Senior year. Full-time recruiting is mainly done fall of Senior year. I am not sure how it works if you graduate early but you likely fall outside the structured process. You will have no work experience which is becoming more important. The big employers who will be paying the $100k salaries will likely have formal "classes" of interns/full-times that all start at the same time, go through the same training processes and are on the same promotion schedules. I am not saying you won't get hired but by accelerating your schooling you fall outside their typical process and it could be more difficult to land that first job.

Between the income from internships and extra tuition costs on taking extra classes the savings probably isn't quite as much as you calculated.

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:45 pm

Ah yes, thank you for the explanation.

I believe Rose-Hulman and U of IL both offer full credit. If you take CALC AP, you don't have to take CALC in college ... and you don't have to replace it with another class. In short, it's one less class that you need to take overall.

There might also be a subject test proving competency, especially for STEM degrees.

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by itstoomuch » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:40 pm

The Patriots did it again :oops:

DS's school had their own placement tests for Physics, Math, and CS. He did high level IB so that may have been a factor. DS's HS Math and Physics teachers were top teachers in the nation.
Don't count the savings until it happens.
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by wrongfunds » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:30 am

itstoomuch wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:40 pm
The Patriots did it again :oops:
Huh? I know we are the most hated team in the USA but what does it have to do with the topic on hand or on "thumb"?

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by itstoomuch » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:10 pm

happens to be more important at the time :twisted:
Now it isn't :wink:
So the second comment is premier until SuperBowl Sunday :annoyed

Oh, don't count credits until you know the alternatives.
Our's added nude drawings as a alternative classwork. Really :P. He needed an art elective for his primary & second major.
Rev012718; 4 Incm stream buckets: SS+pension; dfr'd GLWB VA & FI anntys, by time & $$ laddered; Discretionary; Rentals. LTCi. Own, not asset. Tax TBT%. Early SS. FundRatio (FR) >1.1 67/70yo

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:27 pm

itstoomuch wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:10 pm
happens to be more important at the time :twisted:
Now it isn't :wink:
So the second comment is premier until SuperBowl Sunday :annoyed

Oh, don't count credits until you know the alternatives.
Our's added nude drawings as a alternative classwork. Really :P. He needed an art elective for his primary & second major.
On this long and winding thread, you win for the most unusual and most amusing responses.

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by itstoomuch » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:45 pm

Really no point in saying the obvious.
Always, it is the outliers that makes life interesting.
IRL, I am pretty dull.
Rev012718; 4 Incm stream buckets: SS+pension; dfr'd GLWB VA & FI anntys, by time & $$ laddered; Discretionary; Rentals. LTCi. Own, not asset. Tax TBT%. Early SS. FundRatio (FR) >1.1 67/70yo

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:23 am

These days are all about filling out apps for merit aid (scholarships). The two big ones were for ND and U of IL. If selected (for 2nd round), both will require interviews. He's also applied for several $1000 to $5000 scholarships. Most applications take 1 to 4 (if essays required), so well worth the effort.

On U of IL and the potential to finish early, say 3 years, we've done more research. It is quite possible with planning and plenty of work. (Not arguing for or against it. It was just a question earlier.)

In terms of hearing back from the remaining schools, late March is when all the action happens.

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:29 am

Big month ahead. We'll be hearing back from the remaining colleges in the next few weeks, Harvey Mudd, U of Chicago, Stanford, Caltech, MIT, and Vandy. We should be hearing back on financial aid and merit scholarships too.

Financially, we've been focused on funding worst case on the assumption that we will divert any extra funds to the younger kids 529s and generally building reserves in case of income disruptions (job loss, etc.). Early on in this thread, someone mentioned their plans being hampered by the 2007-09 recession, that hit home, so we are building the largest possible cushion.

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:15 pm

NEWEST UPDATE

Accepted, in contention for attending:

**Notre Dame
**U of IL (engineering)
**Rose-Hulman
**Purdue (engineering)

Accepted, no longer considering attending:

**Valpo - Also sent finance aid/ merit letter. About 2/3 off tuition/room/board. So, best guess, cost to attend $20K to $25K/ year.
**Miami (in Ohio), accepted. Also sent merit letter. About 2/3 off tuition/room/board. So, best guess, cost to attend $20k to $25K/ year.
**Comment on why no longer considering ... U of IL is much more attractive at $30K to $40K per year (assumes $0 merit from any source) than Valpo or Miami. Why? It's ranks top 5 to top 20 in most engineering fields. So we are removing them from the list of contenders.

Rejected:

**Caltech


Still waiting:

**Cornell
**U of Chicago
**Vanderbilt
**Harvey Mudd
**Stanford
**MIT

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by travellight » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:35 am

Is MIT next with results? 3/14?

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by snowox » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:31 am

Daughter chose Purdue and loves it with a Capital L

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:45 am

travellight wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:35 am
Is MIT next with results? 3/14?
Correct. From a "dream school" perspective, MIT is it.

I believe U of Chicago is next Friday. The rest hug the end of the month (March).

For what it's worth, he already has very good choices, and are very fortunate from that POV.

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:49 am

snowox wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:31 am
Daughter chose Purdue and loves it with a Capital L
It is great school. A friend of my son's attends there and is loving it.

We received the financial aid from there. We nixed it from the list because it is $10K higher than U of IL. Both schools have an honors program. He got into the one at U of IL but not Purdue. Aside from the $, that offers some objective and subjective benefits.

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by GCD » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:15 am

timmy wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:19 pm
This is our oldest child, so these tours are an education for the family. We have found the visits eye opening.
I may be reading too much into this, but what did you consider eye opening?

Presumably your son is not the first in the family to attend college and there is tons of info on the internet. What came as a big surprise that you were not already somewhat aware of? I ask this because my own undergrad experience is now dated by 30 years. I keep reading that things have changed, but I wonder how dramatically.

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:22 pm

You may be reading too much in. But it is still a good question. So a few comments ...

If attending college is like marriage, visiting colleges is like dating. Going strictly by online is a bit like having a mail order bride. Arranged marriages work to, but typically, arranged marriages are arranged by people who know you best.

I'm being a bit silly but not completely. The average marriage lasts 8 years, half the time you spend in college. So if you have the ability, you should spend the right amount researching the school. Site visits are part of the research.

Size, fit, the program of interest (how hands on), culture ... All these things have an objective/ subjective / logical / emotional side. Site visits help in getting a sense of them. Are they (of course not) 100% necessary to get a good sense of the school? Very little in life is 100% necessary but lot's of things are helpful.

Situations differ. Our son is sort of a special case (as it relates to college). This brings (potential) options.

My last point .. I travel for work. I'm sitting on 0.5M frequent flyer miles. It costs us almost $0 to visit Stanford (for example). In terms of time, it's all upside. I get to spend time with him/ my family visiting nice places, everyone is very present, and generally having a good time. That's priceless. Again, all situations are different so make your own judgments for your situation (regarding whether you should/ should not visit schools).

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:29 pm

“GCD” wrote:I keep reading that things have changed, but I wonder how dramatically.
This isn’t something you’d discover on a tour, but it relates to the application process.

I was a 15-year old HS student, and took 2 summer classes at a University. I liked it, wasn’t getting along so well with my step-mother, and asked Admissions if I could matriculate. They asked if my parents were okay with it, and I said yes. Next September, I attended. Can you picture that informality today?

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by 2pedals » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:34 pm

timmy wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:22 pm
You may be reading too much in. But it is still a good question. So a few comments ...

If attending college is like marriage, visiting colleges is like dating. Going strictly by online is a bit like having a mail order bride. Arranged marriages work to, but typically, arranged marriages are arranged by people who know you best.

I'm being a bit silly but not completely. The average marriage lasts 8 years, half the time you spend in college. So if you have the ability, you should spend the right amount researching the school. Site visits are part of the research.

Size, fit, the program of interest (how hands on), culture ... All these things have an objective/ subjective / logical / emotional side. Site visits help in getting a sense of them. Are they (of course not) 100% necessary to get a good sense of the school? Very little in life is 100% necessary but lot's of things are helpful.

Situations differ. Our son is sort of a special case (as it relates to college). This brings (potential) options.

My last point .. I travel for work. I'm sitting on 0.5M frequent flyer miles. It costs us almost $0 to visit Stanford (for example). In terms of time, it's all upside. I get to spend time with him/ my family visiting nice places, everyone is very present, and generally having a good time. That's priceless. Again, all situations are different so make your own judgments for your situation (regarding whether you should/ should not visit schools).
Don't take this too personally, but I think this is much ado about nothing. Just send your son to any good engineering school, statics is statics and thermodynamics is thermodynamics. Engineering schools teach the same material but at different prices. The difference is in graduate school when you spend a lot of time with the professors working on research or graduate level classes.

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:18 pm

2pedals wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:34 pm
Don't take this too personally, but I think this is much ado about nothing. Just send your son to any good engineering school, statics is statics and thermodynamics is thermodynamics. Engineering schools teach the same material but at different prices. The difference is in graduate school when you spend a lot of time with the professors working on research or graduate level classes.
Statics is statics ... well, I guess, if you say so. Even granting you that, it’s all well and good as long as the student’s plans don’t change. Not to be sarcastic, but 18-year olds never change their minds as they become 19, 20, right? My own son’s arc went from Physics to Math to Computer Science and he will be working in Finance. His education was first rate along the way, even as his focus changed.

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:23 pm

2pedals wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:34 pm
timmy wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:22 pm
You may be reading too much in. But it is still a good question. So a few comments ...

If attending college is like marriage, visiting colleges is like dating. Going strictly by online is a bit like having a mail order bride. Arranged marriages work to, but typically, arranged marriages are arranged by people who know you best.

I'm being a bit silly but not completely. The average marriage lasts 8 years, half the time you spend in college. So if you have the ability, you should spend the right amount researching the school. Site visits are part of the research.

Size, fit, the program of interest (how hands on), culture ... All these things have an objective/ subjective / logical / emotional side. Site visits help in getting a sense of them. Are they (of course not) 100% necessary to get a good sense of the school? Very little in life is 100% necessary but lot's of things are helpful.

Situations differ. Our son is sort of a special case (as it relates to college). This brings (potential) options.

My last point .. I travel for work. I'm sitting on 0.5M frequent flyer miles. It costs us almost $0 to visit Stanford (for example). In terms of time, it's all upside. I get to spend time with him/ my family visiting nice places, everyone is very present, and generally having a good time. That's priceless. Again, all situations are different so make your own judgments for your situation (regarding whether you should/ should not visit schools).
Don't take this too personally, but I think this is much ado about nothing. Just send your son to any good engineering school, statics is statics and thermodynamics is thermodynamics. Engineering schools teach the same material but at different prices. The difference is in graduate school when you spend a lot of time with the professors working on research or graduate level classes.
That was debated much above.

If he gets into MIT, I'll have to discount your comments. If he doesn't, then I'll be quoting you. (That feels a bit like statistics. :sharebeer )

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by 2pedals » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:35 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:18 pm
2pedals wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:34 pm
Don't take this too personally, but I think this is much ado about nothing. Just send your son to any good engineering school, statics is statics and thermodynamics is thermodynamics. Engineering schools teach the same material but at different prices. The difference is in graduate school when you spend a lot of time with the professors working on research or graduate level classes.
Statics is statics ... well, I guess, if you say so. Even granting you that, it’s all well and good as long as the student’s plans don’t change. Not to be sarcastic, but 18-year olds never change their minds as they become 19, 20, right? My own son’s arc went from Physics to Math to Computer Science and he will be working in Finance. His education was first rate along the way, even as his focus changed.
Yes minds do change but it depends on why they change doesn't it? Did a mind change because the work was too hard, professors with attitude problems, uninteresting classes, too many teaching assistants, boyfriend/girlfriend distractions, too many students an a class, not enough fun time, etc, etc ... etc. Many of these issues may have nothing to do with why someone wanted to do something in the first place. First rate education will avoid these problems but realistically can't. A well run engineering program is difficult and challenging. If the student got a better understanding of what life would be life in the workplace that would be good reason for someone to change their minds. This is why student work experience is very important IMHO.

travellight
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by travellight » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:47 pm

timmy wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:45 am
travellight wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:35 am
Is MIT next with results? 3/14?
Correct. From a "dream school" perspective, MIT is it.

I believe U of Chicago is next Friday. The rest hug the end of the month (March).

For what it's worth, he already has very good choices, and are very fortunate from that POV.
I just seem to vaguely recall that they use pi for decision day...

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:32 am

Yes, I think that is right. When my son was in 4th or 5th grade, he became obsessed with Pi. He memorized and would write out a few hundred digits (of Pi). It took his grade school brain a little while to fully understand that infinite means infinite.

So the draw of MIT releasing on 3.14 is like an old stoner going to a Grateful Dead concert. :confused

MnD
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by MnD » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:50 pm

timmy wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:45 pm
I believe Rose-Hulman and U of IL both offer full credit. If you take CALC AP, you don't have to take CALC in college ... and you don't have to replace it with another class. In short, it's one less class that you need to take overall.
My daughter was accepted to a number of flagship state U's including U of IL and UC-Berkeley, a couple niche engineering state U's including Colorado School of Mines and several private schools including Harvey Mudd, U of Chicago and Rice. Rejected by Stanford and wait-listed MIT.

Something to consider......
The state schools all accepted the AP and IB credits at the high score level while in general the private schools would not have.
She ended up going to Mines which accepted 33 AP+IB credits and offered a 25% total cost merit scholarship, so as in-state her total cost of attendance was about $17K per year.

So what were the consequences of picking State U and getting all those AP and IB credits accepted?
You might think graduate in 3 years.
She loaded up her schedule so could have conceivably graduated in 2.5 years.

But instead she went 4 years with full schedules. She added the honors program which entailed extra classes. And by 1st semester junior year she had more than completed her physics degree requirements. So she then took a 1.5 years of 400 and 500 level computer science classes. Ended up bailing on physics for grad school and applied exclusively to PhD computer science programs.

Best program she was accepted to was U of IL and is now about 1/2 done with her PhD specializing in AI and robotics. She has not spent a dime on it and in fact has saved 50% of her stipend on average and is approaching a six-figure net worth between stipend savings, past undergraduate paid internships and consulting gigs in grad school.

How would that have compared to 4 years at Harvey Mudd or U of Chicago for a cost of a quarter million versus $68K?
We'll never know, but the options provided by undergraduate State U accepting 33 credits of AP/IB does seems to have opened some unexpected doors.

The exclusive private schools seems like a great deal for truly middle-class (or lower) families who pay nothing (or next to nothing) after generous need aid and also for wealthy families where $60-70k a year is chump-change. But for many Boglehead types I'd be wary. We seek high performance at low costs do we not?

keith6014
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by keith6014 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:46 am

2pedals wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:35 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:18 pm
2pedals wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:34 pm
Don't take this too personally, but I think this is much ado about nothing. Just send your son to any good engineering school, statics is statics and thermodynamics is thermodynamics. Engineering schools teach the same material but at different prices. The difference is in graduate school when you spend a lot of time with the professors working on research or graduate level classes.
Statics is statics ... well, I guess, if you say so. Even granting you that, it’s all well and good as long as the student’s plans don’t change. Not to be sarcastic, but 18-year olds never change their minds as they become 19, 20, right? My own son’s arc went from Physics to Math to Computer Science and he will be working in Finance. His education was first rate along the way, even as his focus changed.
Yes minds do change but it depends on why they change doesn't it? Did a mind change because the work was too hard, professors with attitude problems, uninteresting classes, too many teaching assistants, boyfriend/girlfriend distractions, too many students an a class, not enough fun time, etc, etc ... etc. Many of these issues may have nothing to do with why someone wanted to do something in the first place. First rate education will avoid these problems but realistically can't. A well run engineering program is difficult and challenging. If the student got a better understanding of what life would be life in the workplace that would be good reason for someone to change their minds. This is why student work experience is very important IMHO.
i agree. i think work experience is more important than school attended. But, the type of jobs you get depend on the school. After few years after graduation, my work experience and companies I worked for definitely helped me more than my education -- albeit a big good state U.

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:31 am

Rejected by MIT. Ouch, that one hurt!

We no longer like Boston. And we will not watch Cheers re-runs on the Hallmark Channel. :oops:

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by TomatoTomahto » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:41 am

timmy wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:31 am
Rejected by MIT. Ouch, that one hurt!

We no longer like Boston. And we will not watch Cheers re-runs on the Hallmark Channel. :oops:
If it's any solace, MIT is among the schools that are, as the saying goes, "a reach for anyone."

I've just moved to Boston. I quite like it. It has redeeming features, not including the 22" of snow we just got.

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:24 am

I guess we knew that. But it still stings. (We calculated his odds at 2 to 4%. Why? The acceptance rate is 8%. MIT allows in 50/50 male/ female. However, the male/ female ratio of applicants is skewed. So a qualified female's odds of getting in are much higher (2x to 4x) than a qualified male's odds. Ethnicity also creates the same odds.) Anyway, no regrets.

wrongfunds
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by wrongfunds » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:09 pm

timmy wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:31 am
Rejected by MIT. Ouch, that one hurt!

We no longer like Boston. And we will not watch Cheers re-runs on the Hallmark Channel. :oops:
Add Patriots, Brady etc to the "Why I hate Boston" list :-) May be you already do!

mainebeach
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by mainebeach » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:38 pm

I think this has been a very competitive year with respect to college acceptances. A friends son w crazy high test scores and grades has been deferred so far to the very desireable schools he has applied to but still waiting on some Ivies among others.He was even wait-listed at his parents alma-mater. Our daughter just got in McGill but declined by Wellesley where we thought she was a competitive applicant coming from a stem based magnet school. Will save us money though as some of her other choices include state schools such as Wisconsin and U of Washington where she can get more research exposure. Good luck, I think the top schools are a roll of the dice.

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by shawndoggy » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:48 pm

MnD wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:50 pm
She ended up going to Mines which accepted 33 AP+IB credits and offered a 25% total cost merit scholarship, so as in-state her total cost of attendance was about $17K per year.
My son very very very seriously considered Mines (had offer to play sport). Personally I liked it better than the school he ultimately chose. His basis for picking the other school over Mines? "Too many dorks/dudes at Mines." Ugh. The mind of an 18 year old boy. I think he's coming to understand that engineers are pretty much all dorks, it's just that the concentration is higher at Mines.

(the other choice has turned out to still be a very good fit, and we would've been out of state, so Mines would've been $40kish/yr for tuition/housing/travel/incidentials after scholarships)

shawndoggy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by shawndoggy » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:48 pm

timmy wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:24 am
I guess we knew that. But it still stings. (We calculated his odds at 2 to 4%. Why? The acceptance rate is 8%. MIT allows in 50/50 male/ female. However, the male/ female ratio of applicants is skewed. So a qualified female's odds of getting in are much higher (2x to 4x) than a qualified male's odds. Ethnicity also creates the same odds.) Anyway, no regrets.
What's on the short list now? It's crunch time!

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:16 pm

shawndoggy wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:48 pm
timmy wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:24 am
I guess we knew that. But it still stings. (We calculated his odds at 2 to 4%. Why? The acceptance rate is 8%. MIT allows in 50/50 male/ female. However, the male/ female ratio of applicants is skewed. So a qualified female's odds of getting in are much higher (2x to 4x) than a qualified male's odds. Ethnicity also creates the same odds.) Anyway, no regrets.
What's on the short list now? It's crunch time!
NEWEST UPDATE

Accepted:

**Notre Dame
**U of IL (engineering)
**Rose-Hulman
**Purdue (engineering)

Rejected:

**Caltech
**MIT

Still waiting:

**Cornell (supposed to release accept/ reject end of March)
**U of Chicago (supposed to release accept/ reject tomorrow)
**Vanderbilt (supposed to release accept/ reject end of March)
**Harvey Mudd (supposed to release accept/ reject end of March)
**Stanford (supposed to release accept/ reject end of March)

Of this group, Stanford is the remaining "dream school". If he is accepted to any of these (besides Stanford), they'll be included in the conversation (objective like money and subjective like prestige) on what's best. If he gets into Stanford, then the conversation gets more interesting and one sided (rigged outcome like the best Chicago elections :twisted: ).

On the plus side, he won National Merit Scholar. And he has picked up a few smaller local scholarships.

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:07 pm

mainebeach wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:38 pm
I think this has been a very competitive year with respect to college acceptances. A friends son w crazy high test scores and grades has been deferred so far to the very desireable schools he has applied to but still waiting on some Ivies among others.He was even wait-listed at his parents alma-mater. Our daughter just got in McGill but declined by Wellesley where we thought she was a competitive applicant coming from a stem based magnet school. Will save us money though as some of her other choices include state schools such as Wisconsin and U of Washington where she can get more research exposure. Good luck, I think the top schools are a roll of the dice.
Yes, last year was a peak year, and by all accounts, this year will exceed last year.

Since this site is about investing, I wonder how well correlated college applicants (number of) are with stock market highs and lows.

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:14 pm

Psyayeayeduck wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:54 am
This will get buried with the sea of posts but hopefully one day someone reading this will follow my path regarding scholarships. As a full-ride scholarship recipient (undergrad and grad), I found some tips along the way that made life financially easier.

==============================================

- Filling out scholarship applications is very similar to filling out job applications. In both cases, you are trying to convince someone or a group of people to give you money. So start off by having some generic essay templates with fill-in-the-blank entries at the ready. A lot of these scholarship essays are similar to each other doing the same song and dance of why should they give you money.

- When starting out, your best chances of getting a scholarship are from local ones because applicant pool is so small compared to the large, popular ones like the Coca-Cola or Microsoft scholarships of the world. You have a better chance going against 20 applicants versus thousands of applicants. It's all about numbers. In addition, some of smaller businesses love using scholarships as a way to advertise themselves in a more personalized manner. They win because they are advertising by giving back to the community and the recipient wins because free money.

- Focus on the smaller amount scholarships. $100 here, $500 there. It adds up! People focus on the one-and-done full-ride scholarships but keep forgetting the smaller ones. Like my previous bullet, those smaller amount scholarships have a smaller pool of applicants versus the one-and-done full-ride scholarships. When you build up an arsenal of scholarships under your belt, you have an easier time getting future scholarships because your CV fills up faster. By then, you become a viable consideration for the larger ones including the full-ride scholarships. This is how I got my full-ride scholarship when I was an undergrad. From my experience, it is easier to get awarded money when you have already been awarded money regardless of amount.

- The more focus the scholarship is towards your major, the better. Again, you can't control who applies but you can control which pool of applicants you can be involved. The engineering scholarship is a better route than the general scholarship.

- Keep applying at all years of your schooling. For whatever reason, student applicants drop significantly after their freshman year. Whether it is school workload, laziness, or whatever reason I can't think of, applying for scholarships especially in the later years is more critical than ever because now you can show your academic prowess through taken classes and grades as evidence. A scholarship committee will be able to get a better grasp of what kind of student you are when show them that you can handle a semesters worth of school workload.

- Visit your school's financial aid office and scholarship office. They exist for a reason and have more knowledge/resources than you do.

+1

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