Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

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Robinson871
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Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by Robinson871 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:05 pm

I am looking for something kind of odd/interesting/different. I have read a lot of the books this site has recommend and implemented some of the strategies for myself but it has stimulated a passion for me:

To find a way to help people in my company and industry (real estate) to do the same thing. Most Realtors and Loan Officers make a lot of money but because they are 1099 (LO's are W2) they don't have a systematized way of saving. ​So I am looking for someone who can help me teach my people (and industry folks) how to do it and then help them get it set up.

So basically a low fee person who can help with the set up process for new people coming on board. I don't think Vanguard's online approach will do the trick, at least initially. Maybe Schwab has a person who will do it if I explain it properly to them?

Here is my core question: Does anyone know of a bay area (east bay preferred) person who might be interested in my Don Quixote-ish goal with me? :)

I think Boglehead-ing is really DIY or limited interaction with advisor approach but I think I need a human that is local to help "convert the masses" as it were and hold hands initially as we onboard people onto this way of thinking.

Thanks for the help! Any other advise on plugging into the group would be great!!

PFInterest
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by PFInterest » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:07 pm

Just send them to this site. That's literally the reason it's here. The whole point to is you don't need to visit anyone.

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BL
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by BL » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:25 pm

PFInterest wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:07 pm
Just send them to this site. That's literally the reason it's here. The whole point to is you don't need to visit anyone.
+1
Also give them a link to this great ETF for new investors and the rest of us with the basics in 16 pages:
https://www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf
It is also available at low cost at Amazon.com.

You can lead a horse to water, but......

Mike Scott
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by Mike Scott » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:37 pm

Some people really do respond better to a "local human" rather than a book or some random internet site.

Robinson871
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by Robinson871 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:40 pm

I guess I was hoping there was an easier first step into the process. Some people do need some hand holding at first. But I do get the point that this is what this site is all about.

pkcrafter
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by pkcrafter » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:54 pm

Robinson871 wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:40 pm
I guess I was hoping there was an easier first step into the process. Some people do need some hand holding at first. But I do get the point that this is what this site is all about.
Well, perhaps you can find a fee-only advisor to provide some basics, but you have to be careful they don't have a $$ motivation and pitch the wrong things.

Also, you might contact a local Boglehead chapter if there is one near your area.

viewforum.php?f=9

Boglehead Rick Van Ness offers some very good online classes.

https://financinglife.org/your-money-ma ... ng-center/

Paul
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.

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onthecusp
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by onthecusp » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:00 pm

pkcrafter mostly beat me to this but:

Sounds like a good idea but difficult to find the right expertise while not finding someone who wants to sell their ongoing services and management fees. An open minded fee only advisor or a CPA? Negotiate a rate, maybe 16 hours at their normal rate for a 4 hour session so they have time to prepare some slides?

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Watty
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by Watty » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:31 pm

Some 401k providers will come in and give a presentation on investing so if you have a good 401k plan you might include that. You of course would need to make sure that they point people towards low cost index funds since they would have a conflict of interest. Before I retired the mini-megacorp I worked for usually had those once a year but they were lightly attended.

I don't have a link handy but as I recall one of the most effective things that companies have done were to make 401k contribution and increases a default option that people would need to opt out of.

The problem is that the people that are 1099 are not really your employees so I would assume that they don't have access to your 401k.

You also have to be very careful with giving any advice since you can be sued not only for giving bad advice but for omitting some important information. That is why a large HR department will typically just refer any questions to the 401k company.

One option would be to start a library of investing books that you can keep in some place like the lunchroom that the employees can borrow or have for free.

mega317
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by mega317 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:05 pm

This might sound cold but why do you care? Or actually, I guess I care too when people are throwing away good opportunities for financial independence and nice retirements or other things you can do with money. But why is it your problem? You can't get people to do what they don't want to do, and someone making a lot of money and not saving it is not going to change their entire lifestyle because you or some nice person from Schwab showed them some charts.
Robinson871 wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:05 pm
but because they are 1099 (LO's are W2) they don't have a systematized way of saving.
I don't see the cause and effect here.

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Taylor Larimore
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by Taylor Larimore » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:24 pm

This might sound cold but why do you care?
Mega317:

Yes, it does sound cold. It is not the Boglehead way.

Best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

JoeRetire
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by JoeRetire » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:28 pm

Robinson871 wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:05 pm
Most Realtors and Loan Officers make a lot of money but because they are 1099 (LO's are W2) they don't have a systematized way of saving.
I don't think I understand their dilemma. What does being on a 1099 have to do with it?

Are you just saying that because they don't have access to an employer-sponsored 401k plan, they aren't capable of finding their own retirement plans? Not even through word of mouth?

All of the high-income 1099 workers I know (in software, not real estate) know how to figure these things out. Maybe it's just the industry?

Do you attend industry meetings? Perhaps you could hold a session. Or email your friends a few links. Or buy them a book.

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inittowinit
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by inittowinit » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:35 pm

I'm based in the East Bay and would be happy to at least help you think things through and possibly help you identify some fee-only planners who might be willing to work with you. Feel free to PM me.

Robinson871
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by Robinson871 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:44 pm

mega317 wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:05 pm
This might sound cold but why do you care?
Robinson871 wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:05 pm
but because they are 1099 (LO's are W2) they don't have a systematized way of saving.
I don't see the cause and effect here.
Well... I care because I care about them. I am one of them. I started saving later than I could/should have and I think for a lot of them they "mean" to set it up for themselves but they simply don't. If I can do something to help nudge them in the right direction by eliminating some of the hurdles I would like to do that with and for them.

The 1099 v W2 is just in reference to the company sponsored "simple" way for them to set it and forget it (I know it is not literally forget it).

Robinson871
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by Robinson871 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:45 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:28 pm
Robinson871 wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:05 pm
Most Realtors and Loan Officers make a lot of money but because they are 1099 (LO's are W2) they don't have a systematized way of saving.
I don't think I understand their dilemma. What does being on a 1099 have to do with it?

Are you just saying that because they don't have access to an employer-sponsored 401k plan, they aren't capable of finding their own retirement plans? Not even through word of mouth?

All of the high-income 1099 workers I know (in software, not real estate) know how to figure these things out. Maybe it's just the industry?

Do you attend industry meetings? Perhaps you could hold a session. Or email your friends a few links. Or buy them a book.
Sorry 1099, in my experience isn't causal its correlative. I think many of the people that I run into have right intention of securing their retirement but there isn't as simple a way for them to "go talk to HR and set it up". So they mean to... but often don't.

ShabonScribe
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by ShabonScribe » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:30 am

Robinson871 wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:05 pm
Most Realtors and Loan Officers make a lot of money...
At the risk of derailing the conversation, is this in fact true? I've read, and heard from friends in the business, that real estate is a very feast-or-famine profession. Do "most" real estate agents and loan officers actually do well financially, however they might define "making a lot of money?"

Robinson871
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by Robinson871 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:45 pm

ShabonScribe wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:30 am
Robinson871 wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:05 pm
Most Realtors and Loan Officers make a lot of money...
At the risk of derailing the conversation, is this in fact true? I've read, and heard from friends in the business, that real estate is a very feast-or-famine profession. Do "most" real estate agents and loan officers actually do well financially, however they might define "making a lot of money?"
Fair question. I am guilty of speaking in generalities so I apologize for that. I am in the San Francisco Bay Area so many make in the six figures and some wash out. Everyones idea of "a lot" (to your point) is different.

ShabonScribe
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by ShabonScribe » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:37 pm

Robinson871 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:45 pm
ShabonScribe wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:30 am
Robinson871 wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:05 pm
Most Realtors and Loan Officers make a lot of money...
At the risk of derailing the conversation, is this in fact true? I've read, and heard from friends in the business, that real estate is a very feast-or-famine profession. Do "most" real estate agents and loan officers actually do well financially, however they might define "making a lot of money?"
Fair question. I am guilty of speaking in generalities so I apologize for that.
No apology necessary. We all do it. (He said, generally.)

Robinson871
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by Robinson871 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:22 am

ShabonScribe wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:37 pm
Robinson871 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:45 pm
ShabonScribe wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:30 am
Robinson871 wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:05 pm
Most Realtors and Loan Officers make a lot of money...
At the risk of derailing the conversation, is this in fact true? I've read, and heard from friends in the business, that real estate is a very feast-or-famine profession. Do "most" real estate agents and loan officers actually do well financially, however they might define "making a lot of money?"
Fair question. I am guilty of speaking in generalities so I apologize for that.
No apology necessary. We all do it. (He said, generally.)

:D

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nedsaid
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by nedsaid » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:07 am

Robinson871 wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:05 pm
I am looking for something kind of odd/interesting/different. I have read a lot of the books this site has recommend and implemented some of the strategies for myself but it has stimulated a passion for me:

To find a way to help people in my company and industry (real estate) to do the same thing. Most Realtors and Loan Officers make a lot of money but because they are 1099 (LO's are W2) they don't have a systematized way of saving. ​So I am looking for someone who can help me teach my people (and industry folks) how to do it and then help them get it set up.

So basically a low fee person who can help with the set up process for new people coming on board. I don't think Vanguard's online approach will do the trick, at least initially. Maybe Schwab has a person who will do it if I explain it properly to them?

Here is my core question: Does anyone know of a bay area (east bay preferred) person who might be interested in my Don Quixote-ish goal with me? :)

I think Boglehead-ing is really DIY or limited interaction with advisor approach but I think I need a human that is local to help "convert the masses" as it were and hold hands initially as we onboard people onto this way of thinking.

Thanks for the help! Any other advise on plugging into the group would be great!!
The reality is that advisors need to make a living too. If you look at the economics of it, the best way from the consumer point of view is to pay for advice by the hour. Once a plan is set up, the ongoing fees for updates are manageable. People are not always willing to pay upfront $2,000 to $5,000 for a financial plan and for portfolio advice. Ongoing advice would be $150-$400 an hour. Since people don't want to write a check, they head to such folks as Edward Jones or Ameriprise. Most people also won't read up to learn how to do this themselves.

I have tried to motivate people to save and invest for retirement but it seems too difficult and too far off. Many people are in denial that they are getting older and that they need to provide for the time when they can no longer work. I have gotten the "deer in the headlights" look and they desperately want to change the subject. So I have decided that this is really none on my business and despite my concern for their future that it is better to not give advice unless asked. The other thing that happens is that they will want a stock tip and not a systematic plan for investing.
A fool and his money are good for business.

barnaclebob
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by barnaclebob » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:16 am

The problem is that to charge low fees you need to manage a whole lot of money. Someone who wants to earn a healthy salary of $150k and had a modest fee of .4% AUM would need to manage almost 40 million dollars before any overhead.

To go the hourly route you'd need to charge around $300 an hour assuming 25% of your time was actually paid time. Again this is before any overhead. Its tough to convince people to pay this when you just tell them to invest in a couple index funds.

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Stickman
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Re: Brand New Boglehead-er with a crazy idea

Post by Stickman » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:14 am

Robinson871 wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:05 pm
To find a way to help people in my company and industry ...
I see that pkcrafter mentioned my efforts in a post last week. I too have a similar passion: to teach the essential investing concepts that everyone should learn in high school, college, or around kitchen tables, but don't. I attempt to help people understand the Boglehead Philosophy using other media (short video tutorials). You could do something similar aimed at your very specific audience.

I also find truth in a Buddist saying: "When you are ready, a teacher will appear." So, until your audience feels like they have a problem, they will not act. For this reason, I also endorse the suggestion of sending William Bernstein's short free essay called "If You Can". I give it away liberally. I consider it brilliant and motivating.

Then, maybe focus your attention on delivering the next step to your motivated readers--something easy and positive. Success is a long journey of baby steps.

Glad to hear of your interest! Feel free to PM me if I can be of any help.
Rick Van Ness

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