$12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

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dharma student
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$12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

Post by dharma student » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:01 am

I am in the market for a new appliance package. My loca store has a 1600 rebate on select, upscale Kitchen Aid appliances and I am leaning in that direction. I am look at ~ $7k approx for DW, Fridge, Micro, Stove before rebate

But I saw a Viking refrigerator for $12,000. Some of their other appliances are even higher......OK, it keeps the food cold, frozen when desired....what is this poor half indexer/half active/half stock/half bond Bogehead missing?

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David Jay
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by David Jay » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:07 am

dharma student wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:01 am
I am look at ~ $7k approx for DW, Fridge, Micro, Stove.
$7000??? For kitchen appliances???

OK, it keeps the food cold, washes dishes, and cooks (at least 3 different ways)....what is this poor Boglehead missing?

[/sarc]

(Edit) it is all perspective. You can’t imagine spending $12,000 on a fridge. 98% of the world’s population couldn’t envision you spending $5400 on kitchen appliances.
Last edited by David Jay on Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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onourway
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by onourway » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:09 am

Like any luxury good, the price does not reflect its utility. Does a $200k car get your kids to school any better? Some of the money does go into making a better engineered product (note this does not mean more reliable). There may be more features. Mostly though you are paying for the social signaling of the luxury brand.

Traveler
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by Traveler » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:17 am

Unless I ran a catering business from my home or owned a restaurant where the additional quality and features might be used, I can't imagine having a $12,000 fridge. Most who do are likely just keeping up with the Joneses.

Mitchell777
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by Mitchell777 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:24 am

Up until a few years ago that's only a little less than I was paying for my cars. I think appliances are about utility. I'd spend less.

john4546
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by john4546 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:29 am

dharma student wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:01 am
I am in the market for a new appliance package. My loca store has a 1600 rebate on select, upscale Kitchen Aid appliances and I am leaning in that direction. I am look at ~ $7k approx for DW, Fridge, Micro, Stove before rebate

But I saw a Viking refrigerator for $12,000. Some of their other appliances are even higher......OK, it keeps the food cold, frozen when desired....what is this poor half indexer/half active/half stock/half bond Bogehead missing?

Looks like the refrigerator version of a $6,000 shower curtain (Remember Dennis Kozlowski/Tyco scandal).

dharma student
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by dharma student » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:37 am

Point taken, David.

I did go low end about 8 years ago - ~1600 for Fridge, gas stove, convection micro - all - Frigidaire, all poorly made.

My next Washer/Dryer is going to be a Speed Queen...lasts 25 years, made in American, 5 year warranty, 7 year on some models. NO fancy cycles which I never use - 90% of the time I use speed wash or delicate, do all my laundry on cold. It cleans better...does it for me.

All these newer appliances seem to want to cater to the "App" generator.....I don't need that on my appliances....cook it, clean it, keep it cold.....but then I grew up with Depression era parents. I am SO grateful now. We were too poor for a car, so now I own a little Prius that gets me from point A to B at 42 MPH (It is 10 years old). Alot of my money strapped friends insist on driving 15-20 MPG vehicles....growing up poor really teaches you.

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bottlecap
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by bottlecap » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:39 am

I’d look into a Subzero before dropping that kind of coin on a Viking.

Good luck,

JT

rxtra8
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by rxtra8 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:49 am

$12,000 refrigerators are mostly eye candy emulating what you see in the fancy magazine, movies or TV shows. Usually you see a Sub-Zero...very expensive but look very high end ...usually counter-depth but need to be wider to deal with less space inside a normal depth refrig. They have some nice features but the most important is that they keep food cold....most refrigerators do also.

I believe that I read in consumer reports a few years ago that even the most reliable refrig has an almost 20% failure rate within a short time. So.....Me, I bought a stainless Whirlpool 25cu ft refrig 2.5 years ago with nothing fancy from Home Depot for $995 on sale...looks great and works great. (but I also had a deeper space to work with as there used to be a walk-in pantry in the same space...so the refrig is now "counter depth" and does not stick out).
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btenny
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by btenny » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:51 am

My wife and I go tour high end homes sometimes in Scottsdale and Tahoe. My wife drools at all the fancy stuff in the kitchens. It is routine to see a giant super wide (four doors) cabinet like refrigerator. Yep the thing looks like a walk in closet but cold for food storage. It is built into the wall and has custom wood doors and hardware. It has ultra quiet compressors and coolers. These things are like you see in the grocery store but fancy. Since it is totally custom installed I am sure it costs a bundle. Now remember these homes costs upwards of $2.5M and in some cases $5M or more so I bet a $12K refrigerator is no big deal....


Oh and my BILs neighbor was grumping at New Years. His refrigerator went out. It was a big built in thing. He was spending $5K for a new one. And this is in a ordinary $500K subdivision. So yes fancy refrigerators are just expensive.

ZinCO
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by ZinCO » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:55 am

Also likely has to do with the size. We bought a house with an 84x48 built-in Viking that needs to be replaced. The choices in that size are very limited (and all $10k+), but redoing the kitchen to accomodate a standard refrigerator size is not exactly a good option either.

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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by stoptothink » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:56 am

onourway wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:09 am
Like any luxury good, the price does not reflect its utility. Does a $200k car get your kids to school any better? Some of the money does go into making a better engineered product (note this does not mean more reliable). There may be more features. Mostly though you are paying for the social signaling of the luxury brand.
Wait, you mean the $6500 6-burner range that was part of my parent's recent kitchen remodel doesn't cost more than 7x what mine did due to being more functional and reliable? FWIW, that range, which was one of my stepfather's dream purchases for a few years (can't remember the brand off the top of my head right now), has been an absolute maintenance nightmare. On top of the upfront cost, I swear they've had to have a repair man out over a dozen times in less than 2yrs. Wealth signaling, pure and simple.

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willthrill81
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by willthrill81 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:07 pm

From Brian Regan (you really need to watch this).

Refrigerator salesman: "We have this refrigerator right here. This keeps all your food cold for $600. We got this refrigerator here that keeps all your food cold for $800. Check this out! It keeps all your food cold for $1,400!"
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

mattshwink
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by mattshwink » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:28 pm

Interesting conversation, but I will say that there are some things that are not being captured in this conversation. As someone that did a complete kitchen remodel in the last 15 months, it totally depends on what you are looking for. There are lots of reasons to go upscale, but you need to do your homework.

One of the main issues I had in outfitting our kitchen was the range. I wanted 6 burners, minimum. The interesting thing is that going from 30" to 36" is an eye opener. That 20% increase in size is generally a minimum of 300% increase in price (high end 30" can be had for $1,200, whereas the entry point for 36" is around $4,000). For those of us that cook a lot, 36" can be incredibly useful, just this morning I had three pans going while making breakfast and on the old 30" the pans would have been crowding each other out and it would have required some compromises. No more. To cut down on the cost, I did research on what I wanted, then searched for the best price.

The big "splurge" in our kitchen is the french door wall oven. I wasn't sure I wanted it until I saw one while shopping for our fridge. Then I did research and found that they were high quality. I did research and found that Sear's Outlet (near me!) had one, half off as it had been a floor model and a scratch on the side (I have no idea why that mattered, as it was cabinet mounted). When I went to go pick it up (free shipping) I was walking around while they were getting someone to help me get it out the door I saw the range I was looking for (it was not online yet as they had just gotten it). Two grand off for a dent in the toe kick.

I will also say that having three ovens has been useful several times in the last year (our microwave also has a convection feature). So it all depends on what you do in your kitchen what you value. But the "high end" stuff is priced higher simply because it is high end. I suspect there are high margins there.

*full disclosure: I wanted the Wolf 48" range with double ovens, 6 burners, and a grill top. It was 11 grand. My wife was a hard no on that! :)

Pinotage
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by Pinotage » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:44 pm

Sometimes showrooms keep really expensive models on the floor to make the purchase of cheaper (but still expensive) alternatives seem financially responsible. Or really junky models priced not too much lower than higher quality product, which can help the customer justify the marginal extra cost for much higher perceived quality.

In the end, just know what you value and what you are willing to spend to get it.

As another poster mentioned, it is all relative, and some simply value the product more for whatever reason.
dharma student wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:37 am
I own a little Prius that gets me from point A to B at 42 MPH (It is 10 years old). Alot of my money strapped friends insist on driving 15-20 MPG vehicles....growing up poor really teaches you.
In an effort to achieve 42 mpg, I really hope you don't drive 42 mph on the highway! :sharebeer

adamthesmythe
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by adamthesmythe » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:11 pm

There are few consumer products where the best value is NOT in the middle of the price range.

A relative has a SubZero. It's a nice refrigerator but doesn't seem to offer anything I don't get in a midrange commodity manufacturer's model. Besides the commodity refrigerator I can fix myself.

spooky105
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by spooky105 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:21 pm

Have a 10-month old Kitchenaid Fridge (KRFC604FSS) and was looking at SubZero, etc. when we were in the market. Here's what I found through my research:

Back in the day, Sub Zero (and others) offered superior build quality and "food preservation" compared to regular brands. Getting into the later...

Most of your basic fridges [still] have a single cooling unit in the freezer. Air is pulled from the freezer into the fridge to maintain fridge temps. That can result in fridge items freezing around these inlets, crossflow of odors from freezer to fridge & vice versa, and less than optimal performance. Does it work? Yes. Is it the "best?" No. SubZero (and others) separated these so you have individual cooling units for the fridge and freezer, optimizing performance of both with temps, humidity, and no odor crossflow. SubZero further added filtration for ethylene gas (released by some fruits/veg and absorbed by others) extending the shelf life of produce.

Now, many mid to high end models offer separate cooling (evaporators) for fridge/freezer and some offer built in air filtration for odors/gases. Big picture, the competition has closed the performance gap on a lot of what used to set brands like SubZero apart. Sub and others are still built like tanks compared to regular brands, but at 3x the price compared to the top end from Whirlpool (of which KitchenAid is a brand), LG, Samsung, etc. your call on whether it is worth it.

We replaced a basic Frigidaire fridge ($900 retail) with our KitchenAid which gave us separate evaporators, air filtration, and ethylene gas absorbers (replaced every 6 months). We shop in bulk from Sam's Club and have seen the lifespan of our produce extended 2-3x with the new fridge.

For what it's worth, 3 separate high end appliance dealers (unaffiliated) recommended looking at the top of the line Kitchenaid models as an alternative to SubZero and similar brands. We also heard repeated complaints about the Korean brands' (LG & Samsung) support infrastructure, with customers having extended wait times for parts when repairs were required.

Afty
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by Afty » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:43 pm

spooky105 wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:21 pm
Most of your basic fridges [still] have a single cooling unit in the freezer. Air is pulled from the freezer into the fridge to maintain fridge temps. That can result in fridge items freezing around these inlets, crossflow of odors from freezer to fridge & vice versa, and less than optimal performance. Does it work? Yes. Is it the "best?" No. SubZero (and others) separated these so you have individual cooling units for the fridge and freezer, optimizing performance of both with temps, humidity, and no odor crossflow. SubZero further added filtration for ethylene gas (released by some fruits/veg and absorbed by others) extending the shelf life of produce.
If you plan to place your refrigerator in a place that gets cold (e.g. garage) this can be a real problem. The temperature sensor is usually in the fridge section, and if it's cold outside the fridge will stay close to the set temp without running the compressor. But your freezer will get too warm and your food will thaw. We've actually had this happen when we lived in a place with no radiator in the kitchen.

stan1
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by stan1 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:49 pm

For a high end built-in refrigerator I'd go with Subzero, Miele, Thermador, or Bosch (most built in models of the last 3 brands are built on the same assembly line in Turkey).

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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by randomguy » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:53 pm

dharma student wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:01 am
I am in the market for a new appliance package. My loca store has a 1600 rebate on select, upscale Kitchen Aid appliances and I am leaning in that direction. I am look at ~ $7k approx for DW, Fridge, Micro, Stove before rebate

But I saw a Viking refrigerator for $12,000. Some of their other appliances are even higher......OK, it keeps the food cold, frozen when desired....what is this poor half indexer/half active/half stock/half bond Bogehead missing?
Is there a single product category in the world that this can't be said about? People spend money on what makes them happy. And some people have a lot of money. Figure out what you want and go for it. I am sure someone things my 3k laptop is not different than their 500 dollar one and all the stuff that made me spend the money isn't worth it. After all both browse bohgleheads.org at about the same speed.

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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by Tamarind » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:56 pm

dharma student wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:37 am
Point taken, David.

I did go low end about 8 years ago - ~1600 for Fridge, gas stove, convection micro - all - Frigidaire, all poorly made.
Consider finding a happy medium. I spent $700 for my last fridge. More than some here would spend but I got a fridge that has been reliable and quiet and had the features I valued (no French door, bottom freezer).

TigerNest
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by TigerNest » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:19 pm

Sometimes stores put a super high priced item on display for psychological purposes, to make the middle priced item feel more reasonable.

If there hadn't been a $12,000 fridge, maybe the $7,000 fridge would've seemed more expensive.

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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by bhsince87 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:24 pm

You need to check out the $5,000 watch conversation! :)
BH87

Valuethinker
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by Valuethinker » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:29 pm

stan1 wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:49 pm
For a high end built-in refrigerator I'd go with Subzero, Miele, Thermador, or Bosch (most built in models of the last 3 brands are built on the same assembly line in Turkey).
Interesting.

What's the company that builds them in Turkey? Like Foxconn in China for phones?

Bosch is a separate company from Miele, and Miele have a real reputation for quality (but also expensive spare parts).

bubbadog
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by bubbadog » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:46 pm

I purchased a foreclosed home back in 2009. The previous homeowner had removed #2 36 inch Sub Zero refrigerators and a 60 inch Wolf (10 burner) stove. The next door neighbor informed me he had stolen these items from the home after the foreclosure had been completed. I had to replace these items and back then the refrigerators were $7k each and the range about $13k. It doesn't surprise me at all that a big custom fridge is now $12K. Since this was a higher end home and all of the new cabinetry was in place, the best solution was to just replace these items with new. I jokingly told my wife I was going to put #2 30 inch Kenmore ranges side by side in the opening where the giant Wolf range was missing.

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randomizer
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by randomizer » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:53 pm

Three letters: wat.
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Pajamas
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by Pajamas » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:57 pm

It's all proportionate. If a three bedroom apartment is $2 million, a $12k refrigerator might not be standard but it doesn't seem quite so crazy in the context, either.

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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:32 pm

I retitled the thread. To keep this discussion focused, please address the OP's question:
dharma student wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:01 am
I am in the market for a new appliance package. My loca store has a 1600 rebate on select, upscale Kitchen Aid appliances and I am leaning in that direction. I am look at ~ $7k approx for DW, Fridge, Micro, Stove before rebate
...
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

mouses
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by mouses » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:40 pm

mattshwink wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:28 pm

One of the main issues I had in outfitting our kitchen was the range. I wanted 6 burners, minimum. The interesting thing is that going from 30" to 36" is an eye opener. That 20% increase in size is generally a minimum of 300% increase in price (high end 30" can be had for $1,200, whereas the entry point for 36" is around $4,000).
Why not get two 30" ones? I see two appliances in magazine photos of expensive kitchens. Less expensive, more burners. One needs repair, you have one that works while waiting for the other to get fixed.

JBTX
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

Post by JBTX » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:40 pm

In our recent remodel we spent about $10k on all of the kitchen appliance. Mostly "Frigidaire Professional" For the Fridge/Freezer we opted for side by side stand alones, but they look like a large combined unit, giving the appearance of some of these $10-$20k high end fridge/freezers. The combo costed $4k. The main thing you are getting there is quite a bit of space, both in fridge and freezer.

The rest of the appliances I'd say are mid range in terms of bells and whistles.

afan
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

Post by afan » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:56 pm

I don't believe the expensive refrigerator keep food cold any better than "regular" units. But high end kitchens are standard in expensive houses. It may not make any sense, but you could maintain the value of a house by getting a Sub Zero, or some such, when the existing high end fridge need to be replaced. You could raise the value of a house by doing an elaborate kitchen remodel. Buyers would not pay nearly as much for that remodel if you had some regular fridge, instead of a Sub Zero.

It is like many other design features that are far more costly than perfectly functional alternatives.
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stan1
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by stan1 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:56 pm

Valuethinker wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:29 pm
stan1 wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:49 pm
For a high end built-in refrigerator I'd go with Subzero, Miele, Thermador, or Bosch (most built in models of the last 3 brands are built on the same assembly line in Turkey).
Interesting.

What's the company that builds them in Turkey? Like Foxconn in China for phones?

Bosch is a separate company from Miele, and Miele have a real reputation for quality (but also expensive spare parts).
Miele generally does not make refrigerators. They outsource their European and a few American models to Liebherr. Their built-in American models are outsourced via Bosch to a manufacturer in Turkey called Arcelik. Bosch owns Thermador. If you go to an appliance store where all 3 are sold in the US you will immediately see the common bones in the case although the shelves and lights are different.

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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by lazydavid » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:06 am

mattshwink wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:28 pm
*full disclosure: I wanted the Wolf 48" range with double ovens, 6 burners, and a grill top. It was 11 grand. My wife was a hard no on that! :)
That's too bad. That's the single best purchase we made in our kitchen remodel several years ago, though ours is 6 burners and a griddle. I have 4 grills outside already. :) We use the griddle on average 7-10 times per week, so if I could go back and do it over, I'd get the model with 4 burners and a double griddle. We use the small oven constantly, and my wife the baker loves how her cookies turn out in the convection oven, even 4 sheets at a time. We had a 30" LG convection oven in our last house, and there is no comparison.

As for the refrigerator, that's where we chose to shave expenses. We were already spending Toyota Camry money on our appliances, I didn't want to buy a Honda Fit on top of that to keep my food cold. So we have a higher-end LG 36" counter-depth french door fridge in stainless, and it's honestly fine.

That said, if you have the space and want the high-end look for WAY less money, Frigidaire makes 32" all-fridge and all-freezer models that can be attached to look like a single unit, and cost a total of around $3k. Kitchenaid has something similar, of course for a bit more money. Here's what the Frigidaire looks like:

Image

inbox788
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by inbox788 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:40 pm

David Jay wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:07 am
dharma student wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:01 am
I am look at ~ $7k approx for DW, Fridge, Micro, Stove.
$7000??? For kitchen appliances???

OK, it keeps the food cold, washes dishes, and cooks (at least 3 different ways)....what is this poor Boglehead missing?

[/sarc]

(Edit) it is all perspective. You can’t imagine spending $12,000 on a fridge. 98% of the world’s population couldn’t envision you spending $5400 on kitchen appliances.
I've learned to look at the bright side of things. OP can afford an expensive (a very expensive) item; good for him. He's helping drive the economy; thank you, OP. It provides a nice commission for the salesperson, and he's doing well for the month, and doesn't have to worry about his budget or health insurance, and such, so we taxpayers don't have to worry either. The factory making these refrigerators keeps churning, down the road when something breaks, it keeps the repair folks in business. Or the finance guys at the company/manufacturers/store/bank are happy with the monthly payments, interest, and warranties that they get to sell to keep these beasts going. Don't forget the movers and installers. Oh, and the power company is happy to with a constant load 24/7/365, just a terrific regular customer.

OP, you're forgetting resale value. The depreciation on the Viking is less than the less expensive units, so your cost of ownership aren't as high as the sticker price. If you like the Viking more and can afford it, by all means enjoy it!

Bacchus01
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

Post by Bacchus01 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:06 pm

Price out at Costco and get it on your Costco Visa. Will usually push your warranty to at least 4 years or more.

barnaclebob
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

Post by barnaclebob » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:15 pm

dharma student wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:01 am
But I saw a Viking refrigerator for $12,000. Some of their other appliances are even higher......OK, it keeps the food cold, frozen when desired....what is this poor half indexer/half active/half stock/half bond Bogehead missing?
Depending on the fees of those active funds and your total balance you could be missing the price of that Viking fridge a year...

RetireBy55
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

Post by RetireBy55 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:21 pm

Even though I COULD afford it and am a foodie and self-confessed gadget guy (who owns every kitchen toy known to man), I would NEVER spend $12K on a fridge.

Think "Opportunity Cost of Money". There's a lot of things you can do with $12K. Aside from impressing your friends, why would you ever spend $12K on a fridge? I'd rather go to Tahiti for a couple of weeks.

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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

Post by anoop » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:28 pm

dharma student wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:01 am
I am in the market for a new appliance package. My loca store has a 1600 rebate on select, upscale Kitchen Aid appliances and I am leaning in that direction. I am look at ~ $7k approx for DW, Fridge, Micro, Stove before rebate

But I saw a Viking refrigerator for $12,000. Some of their other appliances are even higher......OK, it keeps the food cold, frozen when desired....what is this poor half indexer/half active/half stock/half bond Bogehead missing?
Just with the refrigerator there are so many things in high end ones--dual compressors, better temperature regulation, air filters, less noise, built-in look, size, interior and exterior materials (cheaper ones have plastic interior and exterior sides; high end ones tend to have glass interiors and smoother drawers, etc. and the sides are usually metal), quality of hinges, etc. Whether or not these things matter to you is something only you can decide. High end units will likely last a lot longer too. But they will also consume more electricity.

Now if you were 100% indexing instead of doing half active, you'd have no problem affording the Viking!

(OK, just kidding about the last statement.)

Gray
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

Post by Gray » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:44 pm


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David Jay
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by David Jay » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:49 pm

inbox788 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:40 pm
I've learned to look at the bright side of things. OP can afford an expensive (a very expensive) item; good for him. He's helping drive the economy; thank you, OP. It provides a nice commission for the salesperson, and he's doing well for the month, and doesn't have to worry about his budget or health insurance, and such, so we taxpayers don't have to worry either. The factory making these refrigerators keeps churning, down the road when something breaks, it keeps the repair folks in business. Or the finance guys at the company/manufacturers/store/bank are happy with the monthly payments, interest, and warranties that they get to sell to keep these beasts going. Don't forget the movers and installers. Oh, and the power company is happy to with a constant load 24/7/365, just a terrific regular customer.

OP, you're forgetting resale value. The depreciation on the Viking is less than the less expensive units, so your cost of ownership aren't as high as the sticker price. If you like the Viking more and can afford it, by all means enjoy it!
No, he was making fun of the $12,000 refrigerator while planning to spend 2-3 times what he needed to spend for basic functionality (brand new). I was pointing out that inconsistency.

(I am all in favor of consumers driving the economy)
Last edited by David Jay on Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

Post by bogglizer » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:03 pm

I have found that a $100 fridge from Craigslist works fine. Plus $20 for the Uhaul pickup. House is valued at $1.4M. We can't all be rational all the time.

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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator?

Post by mattshwink » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:39 pm

mouses wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:40 pm
mattshwink wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:28 pm

One of the main issues I had in outfitting our kitchen was the range. I wanted 6 burners, minimum. The interesting thing is that going from 30" to 36" is an eye opener. That 20% increase in size is generally a minimum of 300% increase in price (high end 30" can be had for $1,200, whereas the entry point for 36" is around $4,000).
Why not get two 30" ones? I see two appliances in magazine photos of expensive kitchens. Less expensive, more burners. One needs repair, you have one that works while waiting for the other to get fixed.
Placement is one concern (and it would be the issue in my kitchen as well). I had areas I could do, but it would mean losing cabinet space (lowers and uppers). And it would look...strange (my kitchen is big by regular standards but not quite big enough for extra appliances). There also are added expenses, though still cheaper then a good 36" unit (would need separate vent, gas line, and breaker). The other issue is that if one breaks and is either expensive or impossible to fix, you really need to replace both to maintain the look (especially if you are looking to sell).

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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

Post by mxs » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:08 pm

We have a higher end french door GE slate fridge that retails close to $3k. It has an ice maker/water dispenser in the door, and second ice maker in the freezer. The only options I would want over what we have is the double door option, separate sliding single door drawer, or water dispenser that pours specific amounts. Everything else is not for me. This fridge would be in the 3k to 4k price today. Add to that a 1k or so DW and oven, plus microwave and you are close to 7k. Seems reasonable to me.

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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

Post by Ready3Retire » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:27 pm

:oops: The big cost driver is whether the fridge is built in or not. We remodeled our kitchen in 2001 including a built in Kitchen Aid fridge (has cabinets all around). Our 17 year old fridge is now on the Fritz. Replacement Kitchen Aid that fits in the same space is $7k...about the cost of one years Roth IRA contribution 😤. Standalone fridges are 1/3 the cost. Seems like a racket.

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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

Post by LadyGeek » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:06 pm

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (refrigerator).
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

Post by deikel » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:31 pm

Could the OP maybe describe what features this 12k fridge has compared to a more 'normal' choice - I am curious what innovations there have been in the fridge world.....
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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

Post by MarvinK » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:01 pm

I have a Liebherr in my kitchen (30" counterdepth). New they are $2.5 - 3k-ish.
It has two compressors and an electronic controller. Very quiet. Spacious. Quality glass shelves and solid door handles.
I bought mine used for $600 about 5 years ago. If this one ever dies, I would basically get a newer model of same thing.
I have gotten a lot of compliments on that fridge from visiting family.

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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

Post by Valuethinker » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:50 am

Ready3Retire wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:27 pm
:oops: The big cost driver is whether the fridge is built in or not. We remodeled our kitchen in 2001 including a built in Kitchen Aid fridge (has cabinets all around). Our 17 year old fridge is now on the Fritz. Replacement Kitchen Aid that fits in the same space is $7k...about the cost of one years Roth IRA contribution 😤. Standalone fridges are 1/3 the cost. Seems like a racket.
It is.

Could you fit a standalone model into that slot?

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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

Post by UALflyer » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:36 pm

It's unfortunate that so many people have posted in this thread without knowing anything about the considerations that go into this decision. For an existing kitchen, there isn't a single person out there who is deciding between a 1K refrigerator and a $12K refrigerator, so the comparison to expensive watches and cars is largely misplaced. People do not buy $12K refrigerators because they are trying to keep up with the Joneses. They do so because their kitchen cabinet configuration requires them to use a built in refrigerator, and ALL built in refrigerators are very expensive. If you need a built in refrigerator, a Kitchenaid will be slightly cheaper than a Subzero, but both are going to be very expensive and relatively speaking, the price difference between the two isn't dramatic. If you need a built in refrigerator, buying a $1K or a $2K refrigerator simply isn't an option.

There are significant performance, longevity and durability differences between regular and built in refrigerators, but I'm not sure that it even makes sense to get into them here, as the refrigerators are simply not interchangeable, and your kitchen design is what controls the type of a refrigerator that you have to buy.

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Re: $12,000 Refrigerator? [Looking in $7k price range]

Post by UALflyer » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:03 pm

deikel wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:31 pm
Could the OP maybe describe what features this 12k fridge has compared to a more 'normal' choice - I am curious what innovations there have been in the fridge world.....
As I mentioned above, the refrigerators are not interchangeable, but since you are curious, I can describe the differences. Built in refrigerators are cabinet depth, which is 24", so they can be flush with kitchen cabinetry. Standard refrigerators are all much deeper than that, and are generally between 29" and 35" in depth, so you can't install them flush with kitchen cabinetry.

From a functional standpoint, an advantage of a built in refrigerator is not just in the way it is designed for a seamless look (you can also have it completely integrated into the cabinetry, where the refrigerator door exactly matches the cabinetry, so that it all looks like one unit), but also in the fact that having a wider and more shallow refrigerator makes it much easier to see and reach things in it than the more narrow and deeper design of standard refrigerators.

Also, modern standard refrigerators are generally designed to last 8-10 years. Built in refrigerators are designed to be significantly more durable, so that they are designed to last at least 20 years, and come with significantly longer warranties. Most standard refrigerators come with a 1 year warranty. Most built in refrigerators now come with 2-3 year full warranties, 5 year parts and labor sealed system warranty, and a 12 year parts only sealed system warranty. These differences account for at least some of the price differences.

Although all refrigerators are designed to keep food cold, that's not all that is needed to keep food from spoiling. I think that all modern built in refrigerators now use dual compressors and air filtration, which makes most types of refrigerated and frozen foods last significantly longer. Dual compressors and air filtration have a number of other benefits, as, for instance, if you put fresh fish in the refrigerator, your ice cream and ice held in the freezer will no longer taste or smell like fish.

The downsides to built in refrigerators are their outrageous up front pricing, as they are all made by a few high end manufacturers.
Last edited by UALflyer on Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

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