IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

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John151
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IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by John151 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:41 pm

I can’t file my state income tax return until I file my federal income tax return, and I can’t file my federal income tax return until the IRS updates Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs) for tax year 2017. Does anyone know the reason for the delay, or when the new Form 8606 will be available?

thx1138
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by thx1138 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:43 pm

A bunch of forms, including the 8606, aren't scheduled to be finalized until 2/8/18. I have no idea why certain forms take a bit longer to be finalized.

The above date is from the IRS Free Fillable Forms. I assume all the commercial E-File vendors will update at just about the same date.

JohnFiscal
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by JohnFiscal » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:54 pm

I saw a similar note about this when I was using TurboTax (web-based). I didn't quite understand it as it sounded like the IRS generates the completed Form 8606.

I thought that the taxpayer is supposed to fill that out when/as necessary, isn't this so?

(ps: for the sake of the $4,000 I wish I had never made those nondeductible contributions like 30 years ago, the bookkeeping confusion isn't worth it)

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by Epsilon Delta » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:21 pm

The IRS generates the blank 8606. You put the numbers in the blanks. As of now the IRS has not shown us what the blank 8606 will look like for 2017* so it's hard to fill in the blanks.

* Although many of us think it will look a lot like the 2016 form, with the obvious differences.

Swimmer
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by Swimmer » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:57 pm

Unless rules have changed, you can go ahead and file the Federal return and mail the 8606s separately. I used a 2016 8606 to do the calculations to determine the taxable amounts that are used on the 1040. That calculation doesn’t change even though the form might.
That said, I’ll wait until 2/8 to get the 2017 forms and file it together. Seems cleaner.

2015
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by 2015 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:10 pm

thx1138 wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:43 pm
A bunch of forms, including the 8606, aren't scheduled to be finalized until 2/8/18. I have no idea why certain forms take a bit longer to be finalized.

The above date is from the IRS Free Fillable Forms. I assume all the commercial E-File vendors will update at just about the same date.
TaxAct didn't give me an exact date, but told me it would be within the next week or two when I called on Monday.

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MP123
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by MP123 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:14 pm

TurboTax desktop says available 2/8/18. The form is in there currently but has a big red "DO NOT FILE" on it.

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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by stuyguy » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:25 pm


2015
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by 2015 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:34 pm

MP123 wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:14 pm
TurboTax desktop says available 2/8/18. The form is in there currently but has a big red "DO NOT FILE" on it.
Thanks for the 2/8/18 corroboration. Interestingly, I don't recall any IRS forms holding up my filing last year. I do recall the State of CA not releasing forms timely holding up my January filing last year and the year before.

mopman78
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by mopman78 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:41 pm

Is this form needed for a backdoor IRA rollover? I made a non-deductible IRA contribution, then rolled it over to a Roth. So far I’ve entered it all in turbotax with no issue and no prompt or warning about 8606

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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by Alan S. » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:45 pm

John151 wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:41 pm
I can’t file my state income tax return until I file my federal income tax return, and I can’t file my federal income tax return until the IRS updates Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs) for tax year 2017. Does anyone know the reason for the delay, or when the new Form 8606 will be available?
Perhaps the IRS is updating the recharacterization wording in the 8606 Inst, although it is difficult to understand that a statement that 2017 conversions can be recharacterized in 2018 would result in much of a delay. The IRS will probably not release a form until the form instructions are finalized, but I don't see anything on the actual form that needs changes other than the years where they showed up as 2016 or 2017 in the 2016 edition.

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by Epsilon Delta » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:56 pm

mopman78 wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:41 pm
Is this form needed for a backdoor IRA rollover? I made a non-deductible IRA contribution, then rolled it over to a Roth. So far I’ve entered it all in turbotax with no issue and no prompt or warning about 8606
Yes. Part I of 8606 is needed for the non-deductible tIRA contribution that is the first half of the backdoor Roth. The rest of Part I and Part II is needed for the conversion.

vveat
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by vveat » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:11 am

The availability is now updated to February 15th :oops:

I also did my taxes and am waiting for this to let me submit. Annoying.

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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by mouses » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:17 am

thx1138 wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:43 pm
A bunch of forms, including the 8606, aren't scheduled to be finalized until 2/8/18. I have no idea why certain forms take a bit longer to be finalized.

The above date is from the IRS Free Fillable Forms. I assume all the commercial E-File vendors will update at just about the same date.
I googled this phrase, but didn't see anything with release dates. I wish the IRS would put release dates on their forms and pubs page. Besides 8606 I am waiting for the RMD tables in Pub 590b.

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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by missingdonut » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:01 pm

John151 wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:41 pm
Does anyone know the reason for the delay
The reason the 8606 is delayed this year is due to hurricane tax relief provisions that require some changes to the form and IRS computer programming.

bikechuck
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by bikechuck » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:26 pm

I have a question regarding this form when it does become available. If this is your second year of executing a "backdoor" Roth where you

1) Make a non-deductible contribution to a traditional IRA and then
2) Convert this traditional IRA to a Roth IRA

Assume that you complete the above steps in the same calendar year in year one and properly file form 8606. And then assume that in year two you again complete steps one and two above.

When completing form 8606 in year two do you start from scratch or is there some carryover information from year one that should be entered on year 2's form 8606?

nolesrule
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by nolesrule » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:32 pm

bikechuck wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:26 pm
I have a question regarding this form when it does become available. If this is your second year of executing a "backdoor" Roth where you

1) Make a non-deductible contribution to a traditional IRA and then
2) Convert this traditional IRA to a Roth IRA

Assume that you complete the above steps in the same calendar year in year one and properly file form 8606. And then assume that in year two you again complete steps one and two above.

When completing form 8606 in year two do you start from scratch or is there some carryover information from year one that should be entered on year 2's form 8606?
You would carry over the remaining basis in your TIRA from the 2016 form (Line 14) to put on Line 2 of the 2017 form. If you converted everything in 2016 and had a ZERO TIRA balance, then that carryover should be ZERO.

Chuck
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by Chuck » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:35 pm

Why the rush? I usually hold off filing until at least March, lest I get "corrected" 1099s and have to file a 1040X.

bikechuck
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by bikechuck » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:39 pm

nolesrule wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:32 pm
bikechuck wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:26 pm
I have a question regarding this form when it does become available. If this is your second year of executing a "backdoor" Roth where you

1) Make a non-deductible contribution to a traditional IRA and then
2) Convert this traditional IRA to a Roth IRA

Assume that you complete the above steps in the same calendar year in year one and properly file form 8606. And then assume that in year two you again complete steps one and two above.

When completing form 8606 in year two do you start from scratch or is there some carryover information from year one that should be entered on year 2's form 8606?
You would carry over the remaining basis in your TIRA from the 2016 form (Line 14) to put on Line 2 of the 2017 form. If you converted everything in 2016 and had a ZERO TIRA balance, then that carryover should be ZERO.
Thanks!

dickyboy
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by dickyboy » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:46 pm

I used Tax Slayer software this year as I always do and they had the "2017" 8606 form available. My taxes are all done and ready to file with the IRS but I haven't done that yet. Perhaps now I should wait a while as Tax Slayer may have jumped the gun with making that 8606 form available. Any thoughts on that ?

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MP123
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by MP123 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:04 pm

dickyboy wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:46 pm
I used Tax Slayer software this year as I always do and they had the "2017" 8606 form available. My taxes are all done and ready to file with the IRS but I haven't done that yet. Perhaps now I should wait a while as Tax Slayer may have jumped the gun with making that 8606 form available. Any thoughts on that ?
I don't think any other tax software or even the IRS has it available yet so maybe wait a little? I'd be more concerned about getting corrected 1099s and that sort of thing that would require correcting your return.

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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by Swimmer » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:14 pm

Chuck wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:35 pm
Why the rush? I usually hold off filing until at least March, lest I get "corrected" 1099s and have to file a 1040X.

The “rush” for me is the increase in the probability of someone filing a return FOR me to fraudulently claim a refund. This is a legitimate concern, especially for taxpayers in Florida, which I believe is a leader in fraudulent filings. I find this delay annoying. :twisted: :annoyed

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John151
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by John151 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:25 pm

I find it annoying too, but my refund will be small, and I don't need the money right away. The people I feel sorry for are the ones whose refunds will be more substantial, particularly if their refunds are delayed even further because someone else got them first.
Last edited by John151 on Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

2015
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by 2015 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:54 pm

Chuck wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:35 pm
Why the rush? I usually hold off filing until at least March, lest I get "corrected" 1099s and have to file a 1040X.
In my case, the "rush" is I've moved on to other more important projects now and want to slam the door on this still pending project which I began in December when preliminary tax software was released and "almost" completed (but for the IRS) in January when final tax software was released.

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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by Swimmer » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:39 pm

2015 wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:54 pm
Chuck wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:35 pm
Why the rush? I usually hold off filing until at least March, lest I get "corrected" 1099s and have to file a 1040X.
In my case, the "rush" is I've moved on to other more important projects now and want to slam the door on this still pending project which I began in December when preliminary tax software was released and "almost" completed (but for the IRS) in January when final tax software was released.

+1

thx1138
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by thx1138 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:09 pm

mouses wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:17 am
thx1138 wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:43 pm
A bunch of forms, including the 8606, aren't scheduled to be finalized until 2/8/18. I have no idea why certain forms take a bit longer to be finalized.

The above date is from the IRS Free Fillable Forms. I assume all the commercial E-File vendors will update at just about the same date.
I googled this phrase, but didn't see anything with release dates. I wish the IRS would put release dates on their forms and pubs page. Besides 8606 I am waiting for the RMD tables in Pub 590b.
Link to page with availability dates for various forms on the IRS Free Fillable Forms site:

https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/li ... able-forms

Swimmer
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by Swimmer » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:23 pm

It's now online!

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John151
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by John151 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:51 pm

Swimmer wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:23 pm
It's now online!
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8606.pdf

shipbuilder
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by shipbuilder » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:09 pm

But the instructions are still for 2016.

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John151
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by John151 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:21 pm


hulburt1
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by hulburt1 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:28 am

With vanguard I did a conversion Ira to Roth. They just sent me a 1099-r. I'm 64 and do take money out of my Ira weekly. They just put it all together.
Do I need a Form 8606? Total $32000 (Roth15000)

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by Epsilon Delta » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:09 am

hulburt1 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:28 am
With vanguard I did a conversion Ira to Roth. They just sent me a 1099-r. I'm 64 and do take money out of my Ira weekly. They just put it all together.
Do I need a Form 8606? Total $32000 (Roth15000)
You need a 8606. Any Roth conversion must be reported on Part II.

You would only need part I if you have basis in your tIRA, which would usually means you filed 8606 in some prior year. If you do not have any basis part II is one of the easiest tax forms you will ever complete (Three lines, one is zero and the other two are the same)

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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by KC123 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:54 am

Well it's 2/8/2018 and Form 8606 and the instructions are available as pdf forms on the IRS website but the online Free File Fillable Forms (FFFF) still won't let you add the form to your return. It is on the supported form list with an availability listed as today. Does anyone know if there is a delay between the pdf form availability and its appearance in FFFF?

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John151
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by John151 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:00 pm

The IRS’s list of Free File Fillable Forms says Form 8606 will be available for e-filing on February 15. TurboTax is projecting the same date.

https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/li ... able-forms

Swimmer
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by Swimmer » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:39 pm

KC123 wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:54 am
Well it's 2/8/2018 and Form 8606 and the instructions are available as pdf forms on the IRS website but the online Free File Fillable Forms (FFFF) still won't let you add the form to your return. It is on the supported form list with an availability listed as today. Does anyone know if there is a delay between the pdf form availability and its appearance in FFFF?

I printed out the FFFF return, completed the 8606s by hand, and mailed it all in today. DONE!

bikechuck
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by bikechuck » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:55 pm

This is an interesting thread. I finished our federal returns yesterday (we file separately to take advantage of savings on our state taxes) and my wife had to file form 8606. The 2017 H&R Block software completed the 8606 form properly yesterday and the form header says it is the 2017 version of 8606.

I hope all is well with our filings and that the software generated the proper version of the form as I hate dealing with follow-up issues related to taxes.

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John151
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by John151 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:31 pm

I’m filing my taxes with FreeTaxUSA this year, and they’re now showing the updated version of Form 8606 with all of my information in the right places. I could probably file my taxes today, but I’ll hold off doing that for a few days, until I have time to double-check my return for any errors.

KC123
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by KC123 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:14 am

Looks like they changed the FFFF 8606 availability to 2/15/2018 sometime after my post yesterday. Guess I could go the separate filing route but since I have so many issues with 8606 filing in the past I'll probably wait just until the 15th.

Yeti
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by Yeti » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:55 am

I made a non-deductible contribution to an IRA in 2015 and filled out form 8606 to reflect that contribution on my 2015 taxes. Do you have to keep filing form 8606 each year if there isn't a contribution made or a distribution taken?

Yeti

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by Epsilon Delta » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:23 pm

Yeti wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:55 am
I made a non-deductible contribution to an IRA in 2015 and filled out form 8606 to reflect that contribution on my 2015 taxes. Do you have to keep filing form 8606 each year if there isn't a contribution made or a distribution taken?

Yeti
No, you only need to file the 8606 for certain IRA transactions. You don't need one if it's just sitting there earning money.

However when you do get around to making a contribution or distribution in a later year you need the last 8606 you filed. I keep a copy of the last 8606 I filed with my most recent years tax return so everything I need next year is in the same file.

Yeti
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by Yeti » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:35 pm

Epsilon Delta wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:23 pm
Yeti wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:55 am
I made a non-deductible contribution to an IRA in 2015 and filled out form 8606 to reflect that contribution on my 2015 taxes. Do you have to keep filing form 8606 each year if there isn't a contribution made or a distribution taken?

Yeti
No, you only need to file the 8606 for certain IRA transactions. You don't need one if it's just sitting there earning money.

However when you do get around to making a contribution or distribution in a later year you need the last 8606 you filed. I keep a copy of the last 8606 I filed with my most recent years tax return so everything I need next year is in the same file.
Thank you, Epsilon Delta.

KC123
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by KC123 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:41 am

They just updated the availability of Form 8606 (for FFFF) to 2/22/2018. :annoyed

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John151
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by John151 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:29 pm

TurboTax is still saying February 15, but that could change.

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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by Alan S. » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:09 pm

KC123 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:41 am
They just updated the availability of Form 8606 (for FFFF) to 2/22/2018. :annoyed
Where are you getting this? I just checked the FFFF site and it still shows 2/15/2018 there. Not that I would be surprised with another extension or two at this point.

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John151
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by John151 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:35 pm

Alan S. wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:09 pm
KC123 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:41 am
They just updated the availability of Form 8606 (for FFFF) to 2/22/2018. :annoyed
Where are you getting this? I just checked the FFFF site and it still shows 2/15/2018 there. Not that I would be surprised with another extension or two at this point.
The list of available Free File Fillable Forms is here:

https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/li ... able-forms

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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by Alan S. » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:07 pm

They have more than one list.

When you log off FFFF a screen comes up to "Show supported forms". Form 8606 on that list which is different from the one you posted still shows 2/15 as the available date.
I don't know what their problem is, but this is getting annoying. This must be payback for the backdoor Roth! :x

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John151
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by John151 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:02 am

If they keep postponing things, we may not have to file at all.

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by Epsilon Delta » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:08 am

Or payback for passing tax bills on Dec 22.

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John151
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by John151 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:34 pm

The IRS has two lists of Free File Fillable Forms. Both of them are now saying that Form 8606 won’t be available until February 22.

https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/# ... ailability

https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/li ... able-forms

stl717
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Re: IRS Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRAs)

Post by stl717 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:52 pm

Just found this on TT website regarding 8606-T

UPDATE 2/15 3:05PM: We just received an update that this form WILL be available today. It is currently available in the desktop program and is scheduled to be available at 8:30 PM Pacific time in the Online program.

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