Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

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fsrph
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Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by fsrph » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 pm

I'm having a hard time retiring and trying to figure out what's holding me back. I have thought about this a lot. I've heard it's better to retire to something rather than away from something. But what if your job is so bad you have to get out? My job was fine for decades. I work in healthcare and 7 years ago the facility was bought by a for profit hospital chain. Everything became progressively worse and as the chain became financially unstable things became even more difficult. Now it is truly horrendous. In the last few years about 50% of the workers in my department left for better opportunities.

So why do I stay? I'm 58 years old and figure I'll retire from this job but just can't pull the trigger. The finances are in great shape, that's not the problem. Sometimes I feel like I should just try and last a few more years other times it's get out ASAP. My mind goes back and forth and all this thinking and analyzing is driving me crazy. Any other Bogleheads ever feel like this? Is it just make a decision and stick to it? Any tips you can give me? Thanks.

Francis
"Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get." | Dale Carnegie

jebmke
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by jebmke » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:42 pm

If you are reluctant to stop working for various reasons why not look for another job?
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

RRAAYY3
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by RRAAYY3 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:45 pm

if you are financially secure and truly hate going to work, I don’t understand why this is even a debate

Enjoy life

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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by fabdog » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:49 pm

I agree that you should be looking to jump from this place... no one needs the stress at any age.

If you haven't worked out the plan of what to retire to, maybe look for something part time so you have some structure, and use the new free time to explore things (volunteer or paid, maybe even your own small side gig) you might enjoy. As those develop (and you'll likely go thru several) you can decide when or if to ditch the part time gig and move full time to things you enjoy

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prudent
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by prudent » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:52 pm

fsrph wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 pm
Sometimes I feel like I should just try and last a few more years
When you feel that way, what is/are the reason(s) you feel you should stay?

You want more money? Fear of having nothing to do? Fear of the unknown? Something else?

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Cycle
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by Cycle » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:57 pm

You're delaying the inevitable. You'll eventually retire and have to find something to fill you time. Why not do that tomorrow?

Alternatively can you cut back on hours, I think the mad fientists wife works in healthcare and was able to go part time. I'm at megacorp, and its all or nothing with respect to fire.

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celia
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by celia » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:03 pm

fsrph wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 pm
I've heard it's better to retire to something rather than away from something.
This!

What are you looking forward to in retirement? It sounds like you haven't made any plans, a bucket list, or know what your days will be like. Many of us who are retired are busier than when we were working. The only difference is that WE CHOOSE how we want to spend our time. We have had some threads in the past about what retirees do with their time, like this:
Volunteering Ideas and
What will You do with all that time?

quantAndHold
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by quantAndHold » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:54 pm

I think we get sold a bill of goods when everyone says that you have to retire *to* something. You're retiring *to* not having to show up at that stinking place anymore. You can figure out what you want to do next anytime you want. If you decide to do something and it doesn't work out, you can decide to do something else a week later. You don't have to have it all figured out before you go.

I was in your situation. It was horrible. I got to the point where I just couldn't take it anymore, gave my 2 weeks notice, and left. Now I'm doing stuff that I hadn't even thought of before I left the job. I'm too busy to go to a job. I'm having a blast.

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Pajamas
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by Pajamas » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:01 pm

fsrph wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 pm
Any tips you can give me? Thanks.
Talk to the person you report to and tell them you would like to go part-time. See what their reaction is. Be ready to say why you want to go part-time.

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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by mouses » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:10 pm

I can't imagine why you're staying at this job when you're financially secure. What happens if it gives you a heart attack?

Quit. Then figure out what you want to do. The world isn't going to end if you do nothing useful but sleep and eat for a few weeks until you figure this out.

RRAAYY3
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by RRAAYY3 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:15 pm

Travel, take a college course in something you’re interested in, learn to cook, read the books / watch the movies you’ve “been meaning to”

Life is so much more than work - you worked hard enough to get to this point, stress will kill you and you don’t even need to put up with it so don’t

Quit Monday!

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samsoes
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by samsoes » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:24 pm

fsrph wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 pm
I'm having a hard time retiring and trying to figure out what's holding me back. I have thought about this a lot. I've heard it's better to retire to something rather than away from something. But what if your job is so bad you have to get out? My job was fine for decades. I work in healthcare and 7 years ago the facility was bought by a for profit hospital chain. Everything became progressively worse and as the chain became financially unstable things became even more difficult. Now it is truly horrendous. In the last few years about 50% of the workers in my department left for better opportunities.

So why do I stay? I'm 58 years old and figure I'll retire from this job but just can't pull the trigger. The finances are in great shape, that's not the problem. Sometimes I feel like I should just try and last a few more years other times it's get out ASAP. My mind goes back and forth and all this thinking and analyzing is driving me crazy. Any other Bogleheads ever feel like this? Is it just make a decision and stick to it? Any tips you can give me? Thanks.

Francis
I hear ya, brother! I'm in the same situation, very close in age. Substitute Megacorp for Hospital and tack-on a horrid, 3-hour daily interstate round-trip commute. I've analyzed this ad nauseam, but still don't have the cajones to pull the ripcord. I am financially secure, single, no dependents.

I've planned several retire dates, established countdowns, etc., but when the day rolls-around to give notice, I just can't do it.

The reasons I am having so much difficulty retiring resigning are (1) it's an irrevocable decision, (2) I've been working since I was 12 (delivering newspapers) and I'm just programmed to work, and (3) health care, 'cuz you ever know. But it's killing me, draining my soul, effecting my relationships, and isn't good for my health.

I, too, would appreciate some tips.
Last edited by samsoes on Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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btenny
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by btenny » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:30 pm

Sorry about your situation. But if your finances are good why not just quit. You can get another job at lower or the same pay if you want it. There is just no reason to stay at a place you hate. There are not enough good qualified workers in the health fields so I am sure you can get another job.

So I suggest you just quit tomorrow and give your two weeks notice. Then take off 3-4 months. Do not retire. Take a mental health break. Go to the beach. Clean your house. Sleep in and drink coffee and goof off for a few weeks. Do all the home projects you have been ignoring. Go visit your kids. Then in 2-3 months think about what you want to do. You need the time off. So do not look for a job and be forced to go back to work so soon.

Then after a while make some decisions. Do you want to go back to work? Do you want to work full time? What kind of work might be fun again? Doctors office? A hospital? A specialty clinic? Hospice care? Helping some older folks with home care? Working in Urgent care? There are just so many choices I am sure you can find another position IF you want to.

Plus you might find you enjoy goofing off full time and then you can decide to retire.. Life is wonderful outside those work walls.

Good Luck.

RRAAYY3
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by RRAAYY3 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:31 pm

samsoes wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:24 pm
fsrph wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 pm
I'm having a hard time retiring and trying to figure out what's holding me back. I have thought about this a lot. I've heard it's better to retire to something rather than away from something. But what if your job is so bad you have to get out? My job was fine for decades. I work in healthcare and 7 years ago the facility was bought by a for profit hospital chain. Everything became progressively worse and as the chain became financially unstable things became even more difficult. Now it is truly horrendous. In the last few years about 50% of the workers in my department left for better opportunities.

So why do I stay? I'm 58 years old and figure I'll retire from this job but just can't pull the trigger. The finances are in great shape, that's not the problem. Sometimes I feel like I should just try and last a few more years other times it's get out ASAP. My mind goes back and forth and all this thinking and analyzing is driving me crazy. Any other Bogleheads ever feel like this? Is it just make a decision and stick to it? Any tips you can give me? Thanks.

Francis
I hear ya, brother! I'm in the same situation, very close in age. Substitute Megacorp for Hospital and tack-on a horrid, 3-hour daily interstate round-trip commute. I've analyzed this ad nauseam, but still don't have the cajones to pull the ripcord. I am financially secure, single, no dependents.

I've planned several retire dates, established countdowns, etc., but when the day rolls-around to give notice, I just can't do it.

The reasons I am having so much difficulty retiring are (1) it's an irrevocable decision, (2) I've been working since I was 12 (delivering newspapers) and I'm just programmed to work, and (3) health care, 'cuz you ever know. But it's killing me, draining my soul, effecting my relationships, and isn't good for my health.

I, too, would appreciate some tips.
Here’s a tip: “It’s killing me, draining my soul, effecting my relationships, and isn’t good for my health”

Listen to yourself.

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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by cfs » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:35 pm

fsrph wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 pm
. . .I'm having a hard time . . .
samsoes wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:24 pm
. . .I'm in the same situation . . .
As a member of The Active Retired Force the only recommendation I have for you [both] is to **Q U I T** right now. Good luck with your decision, and thanks for reading ~cfs~
~ Member of the Active Retired Force since 2014 ~

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BolderBoy
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by BolderBoy » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:43 pm

samsoes wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:24 pm
The reasons I am having so much difficulty retiring resigning are (1) it's an irrevocable decision, (2) I've been working since I was 12 (delivering newspapers) and I'm just programmed to work, and (3) health care, 'cuz you ever know. But it's killing me, draining my soul, effecting my relationships, and isn't good for my health.

I, too, would appreciate some tips.
#1 tip - don't retire completely and suddenly; go part-time instead. Like you I was pretty nervous about retiring, so instead I became an "on-call" only worker (cover sick call-ins, unexpected absences, unexpected increase in workload, etc) - they could call me at the last minute, if necessary; this was also in the healthcare field. My former employer used me less-and-less in each of the next three years until I finally told them I was ready to stop entirely. Was win-win and we parted on excellent terms (I'm glad I'm gone and they hate it that they can't quit yet :).
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Tamarind
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by Tamarind » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:55 pm

Find another job, go part time, or just retire and find hobbies or volunteering to sustain your interest.

But above all remember you are going to die. How much more of your life do you want to spend where you are now?

GratefulinNC
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by GratefulinNC » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:02 pm

RRAAYY3 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:45 pm
if you are financially secure and truly hate going to work, I don’t understand why this is even a debate

Enjoy life
Right on, brother!

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sunnywindy
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by sunnywindy » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:03 pm

So don't retire and find another job that you like. Am I missing something?
Powered by chocolate!

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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by cherijoh » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:07 pm

I have been on the fence about retiring. Healthcare has been the big :?: since I currently have 6 years until Medicare (if its still around by then). But after having lost several friends and family members at relatively young ages (late 60s to mid 70s) I have decided that I need to retire so that I can take care of ME. My job isn't horrid but the positives no longer outweigh the negatives most of the time. Of course I haven't put my papers in yet :wink: - I'm waiting to get the last part of my 2017 compensation paid out later this month.

I do have some ideas of what I want to do. I currently volunteer every week and get a great deal of satisfaction out of that. I can volunteer additional hours at the same non-profit or find other volunteer options. A former colleague has approached me to do some consulting for her small company, which would be right up my alley. In addition, quite a few of my friends have retired in the last two years so I'll be able to join them for lunch and a bargain movie, day trips, etc.

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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by Dottie57 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:25 pm

Accepting an early retirement plan was hard for me. But turning in my acceptance made me feel great. Less stress.
15 working days left.

If your work is as you state, you owe it to yousel to quit.

JBTX
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by JBTX » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:42 pm

If I hated my job and was financially independent i would quit. Then I would figure out if I want to stay fully retired or work somewhere else.

You may also be able to take a leave of absence and perhaps getting away from it will give you more clarity.

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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by tuningfork » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:00 pm

For most of my career I enjoyed my job. My plan had always been to be ready to retire by 55 (when early retirement benefits kicked in). Then, if the job ever turned sour I could quit at any time. As it happened, the job started going downhill a couple of years before 55. At 55 my finances checked out ok, so I quit. Best decision I ever made. My stress level is much lower than when I was working. I have more things to keep me busy than I ever had before. I'm eating healthier, I'm exercising more, I spend much of my time on hobbies, and my old co-workers who are still working tell me I always have a smile on my face.

You should hand in your resignation this month. Then, spend the next six months decompressing and seeing what life is like outside of work. Then take some time to figure out what you want to do with the rest of your life. There are many great suggestions in this thread. Volunteer work. Get a part time job. Go back to school to learn something you've always wanted to learn. Try some new hobbies or rekindle some old ones. Turn a hobby into a source of income.

Some people need structure in their lives or need to contribute something to society to feel useful, while others can spend all their time in leisure. It's absolutely true that you should retire "to" something, not just "from" something. But that doesn't mean you have to know what you're retiring to on day 1. You'll have plenty of time to figure that out.

mouses
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by mouses » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:22 pm

samsoes wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:24 pm

The reasons I am having so much difficulty retiring resigning are (1) it's an irrevocable decision, (2) I've been working since I was 12 (delivering newspapers) and I'm just programmed to work, and (3) health care, 'cuz you ever know. But it's killing me, draining my soul, effecting my relationships, and isn't good for my health.
It isn't irrevocable. If you change your mind and then can't get a paying job, you can work, even full time, as a volunteer.

Change your programming.

What about Obamacare? I suspect becoming "unemployed" is a qualifying event.

I can hardly believe this thread. I have had a couple of terrible jobs in my life, and if I were near retirement age and financially independent when I had them, I would have quit in a nanosecond.

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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by radiowave » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:42 pm

samsoes wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:24 pm

I hear ya, brother! I'm in the same situation, very close in age. Substitute Megacorp for Hospital and tack-on a horrid, 3-hour daily interstate round-trip commute. I've analyzed this ad nauseam, but still don't have the cajones to pull the ripcord. I am financially secure, single, no dependents.

I've planned several retire dates, established countdowns, etc., but when the day rolls-around to give notice, I just can't do it.

The reasons I am having so much difficulty retiring resigning are (1) it's an irrevocable decision, (2) I've been working since I was 12 (delivering newspapers) and I'm just programmed to work, and (3) health care, 'cuz you ever know. But it's killing me, draining my soul, effecting my relationships, and isn't good for my health.

I, too, would appreciate some tips.
samsoes Thanks for the post, I had a good chuckle, I started my "career" delivering Newsday on LI in the late 1960's. That's 50 years in the workforce.

To the OP, I'm going to take a contrary position to some of the posts above, stick it out for a couple more years. I just had a very rough time last 2 years with, well a really difficult and probably mentally ill boss who was eventually asked to step down and now things are a bit better. I also work in healthcare (nurse) and I can empathize with your dilemma. You are close but still a few years short from Medicare and SS. Yeah, I agree with some of the posts above re, it's not worth the pain and emotional distress. But I keep saying to myself, a couple more years could mean the difference between just getting by vs. living a same or equivalent lifestyle. Hard choice of course, but once you pull the trigger, you can never get the bullet back in the gun.
Last edited by radiowave on Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AAA
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by AAA » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:27 pm

I was in a similar situation. Given the economy at the time, it was hard to walk away from a good job. Things got to the point, however, that I just couldn't do it any more and I didn't want to do it. People always told me that I'd know when it was time to leave and they were right. So my advice might be to stick it out for a while unless and until you think it might be affecting your health. I think the knowledge that you can leave any time should give you some strength.

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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by Pajamas » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:30 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:25 pm
Accepting an early retirement plan was hard for me. But turning in my acceptance made me feel great. Less stress.
15 working days left.
Congratulations! :sharebeer

visualguy
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by visualguy » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:05 pm

Isn't there a big demand and shortage in healthcare? Wouldn't it be possible to find another (better) job as half of your ex-colleagues did?

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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by fsrph » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:03 am

prudent wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:52 pm
fsrph wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 pm
Sometimes I feel like I should just try and last a few more years
When you feel that way, what is/are the reason(s) you feel you should stay?

You want more money? Fear of having nothing to do? Fear of the unknown? Something else?
I would like to thank everyone for reading and/or responding to my post. To answer as to why I stay - about the only aspect I like is helping others. I've been employed here for over 30 years and still enjoy helping younger (and some of the not so young workers) in learning about the profession of pharmacy.

Another thing is, since a lot of my social interactions are stemming from work, I feel I would lose these. I do have interests and hobbies outside of work but I question if they would take up my time 24/7.

Francis
"Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get." | Dale Carnegie

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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by fsrph » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:15 am

Cycle wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:57 pm
You're delaying the inevitable. You'll eventually retire and have to find something to fill you time. Why not do that tomorrow?

Alternatively can you cut back on hours, I think the mad fientists wife works in healthcare and was able to go part time. I'm at megacorp, and its all or nothing with respect to fire.
Yes, you hit on something very important. I realize I'll have these doubts and issues whenever I retire and I must work them out. Just a little back info - I actually handed in my resignation about one year ago. One of the bosses asked if I was 100% sure about leaving and I said, well I'm pretty sure. They said why not stay till I'm 100% sure. So I did and here I am one year later.

Part time is a good suggestion but it would be tough where I work. Where I work there is just too much work for the remaining workers to do. When workers leave many times they don't replace them. Workload is redistributed to the remaining workers. That's fine to a point - but they took it so far to overwhelm the remaining workers so that it's common to see people crying while they work.

Francis
"Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get." | Dale Carnegie

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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by fsrph » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:19 am

celia wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:03 pm
fsrph wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 pm
I've heard it's better to retire to something rather than away from something.
This!

What are you looking forward to in retirement? It sounds like you haven't made any plans, a bucket list, or know what your days will be like. Many of us who are retired are busier than when we were working. The only difference is that WE CHOOSE how we want to spend our time. We have had some threads in the past about what retirees do with their time, like this:
Volunteering Ideas and
What will You do with all that time?
Those are some good thoughts Celia, thanks. I do have things I want to do but don't think they'll fill up my time 24/7. I think a problem I have is I have lived my life in a low-key lifestyle with delayed gratification for the future. Now that the future is here I have a hard time in turning off the delayed gratification button and thinking more about me.

Francis
"Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get." | Dale Carnegie

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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by fsrph » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:26 am

quantAndHold wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:54 pm
I think we get sold a bill of goods when everyone says that you have to retire *to* something. You're retiring *to* not having to show up at that stinking place anymore. You can figure out what you want to do next anytime you want. If you decide to do something and it doesn't work out, you can decide to do something else a week later. You don't have to have it all figured out before you go.

I was in your situation. It was horrible. I got to the point where I just couldn't take it anymore, gave my 2 weeks notice, and left. Now I'm doing stuff that I hadn't even thought of before I left the job. I'm too busy to go to a job. I'm having a blast.
Thank you. I did think of something similar - as in get out of the job and just take it as it comes. Sort of like a gap year in employment for a younger person. If an employment opportunity interests me and meets what I need then go for it. It not, who knows I may like just doing things at my own pace and not be interested in working anywhere.

Francis
"Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get." | Dale Carnegie

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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by Watty » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:28 am

If you can't pull the trigger or even look for some other job then you might want to consider getting some counseling to help you figure out what to do.

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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by fsrph » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:38 am

samsoes wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:24 pm
fsrph wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 pm
I'm having a hard time retiring and trying to figure out what's holding me back. I have thought about this a lot. I've heard it's better to retire to something rather than away from something. But what if your job is so bad you have to get out? My job was fine for decades. I work in healthcare and 7 years ago the facility was bought by a for profit hospital chain. Everything became progressively worse and as the chain became financially unstable things became even more difficult. Now it is truly horrendous. In the last few years about 50% of the workers in my department left for better opportunities.

So why do I stay? I'm 58 years old and figure I'll retire from this job but just can't pull the trigger. The finances are in great shape, that's not the problem. Sometimes I feel like I should just try and last a few more years other times it's get out ASAP. My mind goes back and forth and all this thinking and analyzing is driving me crazy. Any other Bogleheads ever feel like this? Is it just make a decision and stick to it? Any tips you can give me? Thanks.

Francis
I hear ya, brother! I'm in the same situation, very close in age. Substitute Megacorp for Hospital and tack-on a horrid, 3-hour daily interstate round-trip commute. I've analyzed this ad nauseam, but still don't have the cajones to pull the ripcord. I am financially secure, single, no dependents.

I've planned several retire dates, established countdowns, etc., but when the day rolls-around to give notice, I just can't do it.

The reasons I am having so much difficulty retiring resigning are (1) it's an irrevocable decision, (2) I've been working since I was 12 (delivering newspapers) and I'm just programmed to work, and (3) health care, 'cuz you ever know. But it's killing me, draining my soul, effecting my relationships, and isn't good for my health.

I, too, would appreciate some tips.
Wow, that sounds exactly like me. You're right it's like being programmed to work and inertia keeps you there. I'll tell you something that recently hit home with me is to see friends co-workers near my age quickly develop health issues or pass away unexpectedly . One guy I used to work with was healthy as can be - one day wakes up with a 15 lb wt gain and severe CHF. He made it so far but it's a giant wake up call that it's later in the game than I thought.

Francis
"Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get." | Dale Carnegie

fsrph
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by fsrph » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:44 am

btenny wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:30 pm
Sorry about your situation. But if your finances are good why not just quit. You can get another job at lower or the same pay if you want it. There is just no reason to stay at a place you hate. There are not enough good qualified workers in the health fields so I am sure you can get another job.

So I suggest you just quit tomorrow and give your two weeks notice. Then take off 3-4 months. Do not retire. Take a mental health break. Go to the beach. Clean your house. Sleep in and drink coffee and goof off for a few weeks. Do all the home projects you have been ignoring. Go visit your kids. Then in 2-3 months think about what you want to do. You need the time off. So do not look for a job and be forced to go back to work so soon.

Then after a while make some decisions. Do you want to go back to work? Do you want to work full time? What kind of work might be fun again? Doctors office? A hospital? A specialty clinic? Hospice care? Helping some older folks with home care? Working in Urgent care? There are just so many choices I am sure you can find another position IF you want to.

Plus you might find you enjoy goofing off full time and then you can decide to retire.. Life is wonderful outside those work walls.

Good Luck.
Great advice btenny. As I wrote to another poster, what you are suggesting is similar to a younger person taking a gap year from their job to see what they want to do. I guess when they say you are better retiring to something it meant you retire on day x, then on day x+1 you are in the middle of your new life. I think your suggestion to take time off is a very wise one.

Francis
"Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get." | Dale Carnegie

deikel
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by deikel » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:46 am

fsrph wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:03 am
prudent wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:52 pm
fsrph wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 pm
Sometimes I feel like I should just try and last a few more years
When you feel that way, what is/are the reason(s) you feel you should stay?

You want more money? Fear of having nothing to do? Fear of the unknown? Something else?
I would like to thank everyone for reading and/or responding to my post. To answer as to why I stay - about the only aspect I like is helping others. I've been employed here for over 30 years and still enjoy helping younger (and some of the not so young workers) in learning about the profession of pharmacy.

Another thing is, since a lot of my social interactions are stemming from work, I feel I would lose these. I do have interests and hobbies outside of work but I question if they would take up my time 24/7.

Francis
And this is probably the true issue, you are one of the people who actually DO care about their work and are not just in it for the money....hence the money aspect is not the driving force here.

Based on your description you are now in a toxic work environment. It does not matter if it is objectively toxic or bad (although people crying at work is a bad sign) - but you feel it being toxic and that is all that matters.

If you continue to stay on you are at a good risk to develop health issues that might spill over into your retirement you have so diligently prepared for - so from that angle alone, I would quit asap. Yes, you might go through a slump, but that is a great opportunity to invent yourself new.

Maybe contact some old colleagues and see what they currently do ? Why not try to get a new job - healthcare related, maybe at less hours, maybe teaching related since that seems to appeal to you. Lecturer at a smaller college (pharmacy/nursing) maybe ? Home care companies ?

Get out now and find an in between job until final retirement
Everything you read in this post is my personal opinion. If you disagree with this disclaimer, please un-read the text immediately and destroy any copy or remembrance of it.

book lover
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by book lover » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:48 am

Time has become more valuable than money. Why are you spending your time that way?

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fear/greed
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by fear/greed » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:46 pm

Here are the two sign-offs of and some comments about their jobs from 1. the original poster and 2. the other person who said they were in a similar situation:

"Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get." (Re their job: "Now it is truly horrendous.", "My mind goes back and forth and all this thinking and analyzing is driving me crazy.")
and
"Happiness is not my companion." (Re their job: "But it's killing me, draining my soul, effecting my relationships, and isn't good for my health.")

Riffing on these sign-offs in a pop-psychology way, I'll say: Make happiness the thing that you want, and make happiness your companion.

Life is more complicated than a catch-phrase but since you both took the time to choose these respective phrases as important enough to appear every time you post a comment, maybe they're meaningful enough to you to take another look at, given that you're both in turmoil in your current circumstances and they're neither of them making you happy. Happiness is not the only valid emotion in life. But write down the "Pros" and "Cons" of staying at your jobs and leaving them and see what other important things you can find. You can start with: "Cons for staying at job: "it is truly horrendous" and "it's killing me, draining my soul".

Also, remember: you can be afraid to do something and be uncertain about the results, and you can do it anyway. It may be simple but not easy (like investing!). Best of luck to you both!

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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by HongKonger » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:55 pm

I don't think retirement feels like you think it will and you don't know how it feels until you do it. It certainly is not finish work on a Friday and on Monday you are eating bon bons on the sofa watching daytime tv. It takes quite a good while for it to actually sink in by which time you have found other things that occupy your time and then it takes more time to find your groove with those things. You don't go from meaningful existence to nothing overnight.

I'm 4.5 years in and finally starting to relax into it.

Just do it.

macheta
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by macheta » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:05 pm

The only reason why I am staying in a horrible workplace is because the high pay / benefits outweigh the need of having job security. I plan to wait it out and save as much as possible. I plan to start a new career after getting laid off. Maybe horrible is a bad word to explain the situation. My current situation is just lack of job security.

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celia
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by celia » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:35 pm

I wouldn't worry about your schedule too much. As you get older, you will get to know more doctors and get to know their staff on a first name basis. You'll become such good "friends", you'll start seeing each other more often.
:sharebeer

Until then, the world is your oyster. There's a lot to see and do as long as you get out and start meeting people.

quantAndHold
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by quantAndHold » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:39 pm

fsrph wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:03 am
prudent wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:52 pm
fsrph wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 pm
Sometimes I feel like I should just try and last a few more years
When you feel that way, what is/are the reason(s) you feel you should stay?

You want more money? Fear of having nothing to do? Fear of the unknown? Something else?
I would like to thank everyone for reading and/or responding to my post. To answer as to why I stay - about the only aspect I like is helping others. I've been employed here for over 30 years and still enjoy helping younger (and some of the not so young workers) in learning about the profession of pharmacy.

Another thing is, since a lot of my social interactions are stemming from work, I feel I would lose these. I do have interests and hobbies outside of work but I question if they would take up my time 24/7.

Francis
Those are both really valid reasons for wanting to continue working. How I solved them was with activities and volunteer work.

I have a volunteer position where I teach an after school class related to my profession to middle and high school kids. That has turned into mentoring a couple of the kids, which is really rewarding.

I also am taking classes. In my case, a fitness class that meets 5 days a week, and an art class that meets once a week. Both of those classes put me in the same room with the same people day after day, week after week, and those people are now my friends, instead of work people. It took some time for the friendships to happen, so it helped that I chose activities I enjoy doing, but I mostly took the classes for social reasons.

Those things don't take up 24/7, but they provide the same type of framework that work provides. Beyond that, wife and I both have projects that we're working on, that vary from week to week and month to month. So our lives are full without being overworked.

sleepwell
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by sleepwell » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:13 am

I am sorry that you are in the type of situation you describe, but you are far from alone. Many healthcare professionals in a variety of specialties feel over-worked, under-appreciated, and stressed. More attention is now being paid to the 'second victim', which is the healthcare worker. Burn-out is common. In the hospital system in which I work, the philosophy is to do more with less. More patients, less staff. Longer hours, sicker patients, equipment which doesn't always work properly, no lunch, no breaks, just keep going because that is what is expected. Every day.

It wasn't always this way, and if you are 55 and have been a pharmacist for much of that time, then you know what I mean. I'm a nurse anesthetist. I graduated from my program when I was 24, which was many years ago.I used to love my job, but I haven't felt that way for a long time.

I try to take good care of my patients. I imagine that most people in healthcare want to their patients to do well. I don't know of anyone who sets out to do a bad job. However, sometimes there is so much extraneous hooey we are expected to do that it is difficult to perform our actual jobs. My daughter is a pharmacist working in retail. I can't believe all the extra things that have been dumped on the pharmacists in the few years since she graduated, all while cutting the staffing. Already she is so frustrated some days that I don't know how she can get up and go back the next day. I sure couldn't do her job.

I don't know if going part-time is an option for you. I know other posters mentioned that as a possible solution. I actually am going to try that, and I will start my reduced hours on Monday.

Good luck to you, to me, and to all the other folks in healthcare.

Sleepwell

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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by 123 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:30 am

Among the people I've worked with it seems that those that are highly "connected" with people they work with tend to stick it out and longest and retire later while those who weren't really "invested" in their jobs retire as early as they can. Those that were "connected" with the people they worked with sometimes seemed to lack a social structure outside of work and work was everything in their social lives. One of the really "connected" workers was a manager who really annoyed everyone. We found out after he retired that a few months later he went back to work somewhere else as a manager, he seemed to like being a manager because otherwise people had to no reason to listen to him. For some folks the work environment is the only environment they have built any social relationships in.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.

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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by CurlyDave » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:46 am

fsrph wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 pm
... Any tips you can give me? ...

Francis
The day I decided to pull the trigger on retiring was when I came to the realization that I was selling my days to the company for less than they were worth to me. And, even worse, I didn't know how how many days I had left.

At that point I was close to FI, but had not found the standard calculators. I kept reading that one needed 80-85% of his pre-retirement income to be reasonably comfortable. BUT, I had been contributing 15% to a 401(k) and living on just 85% of my income already.

So I multiplied .85 x .85 and got a little over 0.72. Pension and SS plus a reasonable withdrawal got me there. That wasn't even counting the income from my little side rental business. The thing that really pushed me over was the willingness to make do with less if we had to.

All I can tell you is that it has worked out for us. DW retired a few years ago, but keeps up her consulting business also. Even year our income is greater than the year before, primarily because rents have inflated. Our days are filled with friends and activities.

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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by sport » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:05 am

The obvious attraction to retirement is the freedom to use your time as you wish. However, there is another major benefit that people often do not appreciate before they retire. It is the lack of stress. Every job has a stress level, and when you hate your job, that level of stress has to be high. It is well known that stress causes health problems, both physical and mental. Stress can actually kill you. So, if you do not need to work for financial reasons, you should do yourself a favor and quit. It is very likely that once you are relieved of all that stress, you will enjoy being retired so much, that you will wonder why you did not do it sooner. If by some chance that you find that you would like to still work, you can find some other work-type activity on your own terms. It could be a part time job. It could be a volunteer job.

I was unhappy with my job. I did not actually hate it the way you do. Yet, when I retired, I found that I really enjoyed the lack of stress along with the freedom to choose my activities. I no longer set an alarm clock. It is really nice when I look out the window and see bad weather and know I do not have to commute to work and fight the crazies on the freeway. I am now living a much more relaxed life. I drive slower, my digestive system works better, etc. etc.

JoeRetire
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by JoeRetire » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:39 am

fsrph wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 pm
I'm having a hard time retiring and trying to figure out what's holding me back. I have thought about this a lot. I've heard it's better to retire to something rather than away from something.
You've thought about this a lot. Yet you haven't come up with anything you want to retire to?

That says you aren't really ready to retire yet. Perhaps you should find a new job.
So why do I stay? I'm 58 years old and figure I'll retire from this job but just can't pull the trigger. The finances are in great shape, that's not the problem. Sometimes I feel like I should just try and last a few more years other times it's get out ASAP. My mind goes back and forth and all this thinking and analyzing is driving me crazy. Any other Bogleheads ever feel like this? Is it just make a decision and stick to it? Any tips you can give me?
This feeling isn't uncommon. You've probably been in this job a long time. And you really liked it before. Your heart is telling you that maybe it will turn around and get better even while your mind tells you that it won't.

These are hard decisions. Don't beat yourself up about how difficult it is. Consider this: what's the worst that could happen if you retire?

Instead of forcing yourself to choose between stay and retire, come up with a Plan B. Think about what you might do if you retire now, then decide retirement isn't for you. Would you go back to your current employer? Would you find a new job somewhere else (knowing that the job doesn't have to pay well it just has to be engaging)?

The retire, give it a year or two to see if you like it, then move on to Plan B if you don't.

Dottie57
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by Dottie57 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:37 pm

Pajamas wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:30 pm
Dottie57 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:25 pm
Accepting an early retirement plan was hard for me. But turning in my acceptance made me feel great. Less stress.
15 working days left.
Congratulations! :sharebeer
Thanks :sharebeer

socraticbogler
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by socraticbogler » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:54 pm

It seems like you really care about the purpose of what you do. I agree with the person that said, reach out to your former colleagues and see where they landed.

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celia
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Re: Financially secure, horrible workplace but just can't FIRE

Post by celia » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:40 pm

If you want a volunteer position that uses your pharmacy skills, consider the American Red Cross. There are a lot of their classes you can take to prepare for a disaster and they always need professionals in the medical field in the shelters. Hurricane season is the busiest time of the year as they pull volunteers from all over the country to help where it is needed. Along the way you will meet other specialists who are also driven to help others. They will cover your transportation, food, and sheltering when you are deployed so there is no out-of-pocket cost to you.

You can also volunteer for Doctors without Borders if you want to travel internationally with others. I believe they assemble teams of doctors with different specialties to work together where needed. It sounds like you would be perfect for training the local assistants in administering meds.

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