Father financial trouble

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Joejoe00
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Father financial trouble

Post by Joejoe00 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:51 pm

Dad is 80 and lives with my wife and i...he has one credit card and a loan he consolidated through discover for 10,000. He cant pay his credit card or loan back. He has no assests and no retirement. The only income he gets is social security. What would be the best course of action? Should he just let the two go? Can they garnish his social security?

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TxAg
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by TxAg » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:54 pm

The government could garnish it, but I don’t think a cc company can. Someone will be along shortly to give us the facts. Good luck.

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Pajamas
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by Pajamas » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:58 pm

They can't garnish his Social Security for a credit card debt but could for a limited number of other types of debt.

They could try to seize his bank account and then he would have to prove that his only source of income is Social Security to prevent that. They could still seize any amount over two month's worth of SS payments. I don't know how common that would be for a credit card company but some loan companies might do that or sell the bad debt to someone who might do that. Biggest problem is going to be keeping them from hassling him.

https://www.elderlawanswers.com/can-soc ... bts--15460

https://faq.ssa.gov/link/portal/34011/3 ... arnishment

FoolStreet
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by FoolStreet » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:07 pm

Joejoe00 wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:51 pm
Dad is 80 and lives with my wife and i...he has one credit card and a loan he consolidated through discover for 10,000. He cant pay his credit card or loan back. He has no assests and no retirement. The only income he gets is social security. What would be the best course of action? Should he just let the two go? Can they garnish his social security?
Definitely let it go. The best case would be for his credit to be ruined so he won’t be able to rack up debt he can’t pay back. You can still love him, while being financially prudent.

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celia
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by celia » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:25 pm

Does he have ANY physical assets like a car he can sell? Besides using the money to pay down the debts, he will save by no longer needing to buy car insurance or gas or maintenance.

If he lives with you, what does he currently spend his SS on? I assume you feed and house him and pay the utilities. Other than medical expenses, what else does he pay for? It seems like he could pay down the debts instead of traveling or have entertainment that costs money. Senior centers usually have almost-free activities to keep the seniors occupied and to maintain a social connection.
Last edited by celia on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

denovo
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by denovo » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:29 pm

Joejoe00 wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:51 pm
Can they garnish his social security?
No.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

Joejoe00
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by Joejoe00 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:13 am

No asssets. He lives in our house. His car is a lease.

Shallowpockets
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by Shallowpockets » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:31 am

Take away his credit card. How did he amass all that debt?

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Pajamas
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by Pajamas » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:43 am

Shallowpockets wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:31 am
Take away his credit card.
Gee I'm glad I never had children! :beer

barnaclebob
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by barnaclebob » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:48 am

Pajamas wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:43 am
Shallowpockets wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:31 am
Take away his credit card.
Gee I'm glad I never had children! :beer
Sounds like his kids are the only thing between him and a much worse living situation.

Joejoe00
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by Joejoe00 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:50 am

Hes on a fixed income...took a lease out for too much money with his car and also conolidated other debt into one payment. Only has one active credit card now but his debt outweighs his income especially since he still has his lease until july 2018.

mouses
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by mouses » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:55 am

I can't speak to the debt situation, but what about going forward -

Does he realize he has to be financially prudent now? What is the car situation, does he need one? If you have two cars, can he safely borrow one periodically? What about uber? Mass transportation?

Can he get out of the lease? It sounds like he should not have been granted a lease.

(It may well be that medical bills would wipe out Social Security, depending on what his medical insurance situation is.)

Joejoe00
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by Joejoe00 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:11 am

Well hes permanantly blind in one eye the last month, so we take him everywhere. Once the lease is up he is not going to need a car.

DarthSage
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by DarthSage » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:29 am

Could you possibly turn the car in early, then? I don't know much about leases--I'm sure there's some kind of expense involved with early return--but if he truly can't use the vehicle due to medical reasons, they MIGHT waive them. And it would stop his bleeding somewhat.

I'm sorry you're in this situation. It sounds like your father doesn't grasp the tenuousness of his circumstances. God bless you for taking care of him.

Nate79
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by Nate79 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:51 am

He should cut up the credit card, inform them he can't pay and that he is judgment proof. Turn the lease in and stop paying on that as well. As long as he has no assets there is nothing they can do. If he has any extra money from his fixed income he can save it up and once he gets a certain amount offer each of these companies a settlement amount to settle the debt (try $0.25 on the dollar for the debt).

btenny
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by btenny » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:09 pm

Can he pay the minimum (maybe $30 to $50) on the credit card until the car lease is up? If he cannot do this maybe you can give him that much $$ for a few months. I know you are already helping a ton but he will feel a lot better this way. Plus the CC company will not be able to do any calling on the phone or credit shenanigans if the payments are up to date. I think that would be the best situation overall. Then when the lease is up maybe he can pay a little more to the CC each month. At his age he does not need to pay it off. Just pay some each month and make sure the balance is going down a little.

And yes take away the CC but do not cancel it. Just tell him he should not use it anymore. If you cancel it they may start some sort of phone calling campaign to get you to pay off the CC in full. I do not know the terms in that situation.

Then call the car lease company and talk to them about the car lease. Sometimes they will let a person out of a lease a little early. But he will still have to pay end of lease fee ($400 or so) even if you wait until July. Make sure the car is clean and not damaged in any way that will cost $$ at lease end. If the lease company say no then look on line for car lease take over web sites. See below. You might be able to sell or give away his lease. Lots of people are always looking for a car that they can use for few months.

http://www.leasetrader.com/car_lease/Ca ... -Over.aspx
https://leasequit.com/

Good Luck.

gotester2000
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by gotester2000 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:15 pm

Joejoe,

A simple solution is to payoff his debt - 10k is not a big amount, cut the credit card and return the car. Ask him to contribute to family expenses whatever he can.

Nate79
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by Nate79 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:44 pm

barnaclebob wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:48 am
Pajamas wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:43 am
Shallowpockets wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:31 am
Take away his credit card.
Gee I'm glad I never had children! :beer
Sounds like his kids are the only thing between him and a much worse living situation.
If he isn't willing to cut the card up himself then there is a problem. Continuing to use the card with no capability or intention to pay is theft. There is no reason to keep the card and he should realize this himself.

gloomydog
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by gloomydog » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:51 pm

If he's not going to be paying it off and he has no assets to seize, he should spend as much as he can before they close the account. :?

01spirit750
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by 01spirit750 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:57 pm

We had a similar issue with a elder relative

Numerous maxed out credit cards (Spending money on trips they could not afford)
Severe hording of stuff (food, luggage, anything that was on "sale" or etc)
Bouncing checks and racking up fees
Trying to cash a $30 check but bank would not cash due to negative balance in account.

It was a mess.

thangngo
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by thangngo » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:07 pm

Joejoe00 wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:51 pm
Dad is 80 and lives with my wife and i...he has one credit card and a loan he consolidated through discover for 10,000. He cant pay his credit card or loan back. He has no assests and no retirement. The only income he gets is social security. What would be the best course of action? Should he just let the two go? Can they garnish his social security?
He's 80. You should tell him that he should not worry about it. Let him live his life and enjoy. $10k credit card debt is minimal in the grand scheme of thing. Can he just make minimum payment until he's 100?

Joejoe00
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by Joejoe00 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:11 pm

After paying his other bills hes unable to make minimum payment. Will be going to lawyer to see what best thing to do is.

researcher
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by researcher » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:18 pm

Joejoe00 wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:11 pm
After paying his other bills hes unable to make minimum payment. Will be going to lawyer to see what best thing to do is.
I'm not sure why you need a lawyer.

He's 80 years old, in declining health, with zero assets, and zero ability to repay the debt.
Why not just have him cut up the credit card and forget about it?

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celia
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by celia » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:19 pm

I'm not very familiar with this, but somehow I think you shouldn't pay off his debt using your money because then they might be able to come after you for the rest, especially if he is now your dependent. In other words, don't co-mingle his money with yours.

Being blind in one eye, in itself, does not disqualify someone from driving. It all depends on how his vision is in the other eye. But maybe if you don't want him to drive anymore, you don't need to tell him this.

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Pajamas
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by Pajamas » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:23 pm

celia wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:19 pm
But maybe if you don't want him to drive anymore, you don't need to tell him this.
Gee I'm glad I never had children! :beer

Carefreeap
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by Carefreeap » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:26 pm

Joejoe00 wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:11 pm
After paying his other bills hes unable to make minimum payment. Will be going to lawyer to see what best thing to do is.
I agree with the prior post to see what options are available on the lease since he is no longer able to drive. In any case it's only 6 more months on the car lease.

What other bills does he have if he's living with you?

What's his SS payment? Is he Medicaid eligible? What's the rest of his health like?

I have plenty of empathy for you. When my mom died I had to deal with an estate that was -$400k with about $60k in CC debt. My nearly 82 year old dad has about $1,500 to his name. My husband and I will probably get stuck picking up the first two years of skilled nursing until his Medicaid status kicks in. For a lot of reasons I'm not happy about the situation but I am grateful that we do have the means to keep him off the street. :annoyed

B3GINN3R
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by B3GINN3R » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:33 pm

Probably worth talking to a bankruptcy lawyer. He probably can't get into chapter 13, but he might be able to do a chapter 7. That would stop the hassle and since he doesn't really need any more credit, it doesn't matter if it trashes his credit score. Find a flat fee bankruptcy lawyer that will do a free consult.

Raabe34
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by Raabe34 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:38 pm

He's basically insolvent. I would just quit paying on the card and wait until they sell it into collections and settle it later.

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celia
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by celia » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:07 pm

Pajamas wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:23 pm
celia wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:19 pm
But maybe if you don't want him to drive anymore, you don't need to tell him this.
Gee I'm glad I never had children! :beer
I'm also glad you didn't have children! :beer

How many times did your parents drive you somewhere? Now it may time to drive dad (rather than waiting for him to have an accident).

btenny
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by btenny » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:27 pm

Just give your father $50 for the next few months and make sure he uses it to pay the CC bill. And make sure he puts away that CC and does not use it any more. I guarantee you this will be the least trouble for everyone. No need to spend $500 or more for a bankruptcy lawyer. No need to deal with the CC company. Plus even if you file BK and do this work the debt will be sold to some collection agency. And those guys will drive you and your dad nuts over the phone and the mail and your door. And yes for $10K collection people will come to your door and ring the bell and scream at you. They may even try to make this bill your responsibility. So just spend a few $$ until his car lease is finished. Then he will have enough to pay the minimum himself. And then make sure he really pays the bill.

It is tough getting old and not having any money. So go easy if you can on your Dad. I am pretty sure he is not happy about the situation. Just remember he took care of you back when. Plus you will not have him around for a lot longer. Enjoy spending time with him while you can.

Good Luck.

mouses
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by mouses » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:46 pm

btenny wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:27 pm
Plus even if you file BK and do this work the debt will be sold to some collection agency. And those guys will drive you and your dad nuts over the phone and the mail and your door. And yes for $10K collection people will come to your door and ring the bell and scream at you. They may even try to make this bill your responsibility.
Can they do this legally? I thought bankruptcy cancelled various debts (not all types) in full. And there is some law that requires collections people to leave you alone if you write them a letter or something.

Palatineman
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by Palatineman » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:31 pm

btenny wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:27 pm
Just give your father $50 for the next few months and make sure he uses it to pay the CC bill. And make sure he puts away that CC and does not use it any more. I guarantee you this will be the least trouble for everyone. No need to spend $500 or more for a bankruptcy lawyer. No need to deal with the CC company. Plus even if you file BK and do this work the debt will be sold to some collection agency. And those guys will drive you and your dad nuts over the phone and the mail and your door. And yes for $10K collection people will come to your door and ring the bell and scream at you. They may even try to make this bill your responsibility. So just spend a few $$ until his car lease is finished. Then he will have enough to pay the minimum himself. And then make sure he really pays the bill.

It is tough getting old and not having any money. So go easy if you can on your Dad. I am pretty sure he is not happy about the situation. Just remember he took care of you back when. Plus you will not have him around for a lot longer. Enjoy spending time with him while you can.

Good Luck.
I agree that this is the best and most compassionate solution.

In addition the OP should make sure you never co-sign any loan, lease and make yourself an authorized user on any CC that is in his Dad's name. That would make OP responsible for the debt.

Not Law
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by Not Law » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:48 pm

1. Bankruptcy will eliminate all collection efforts.
2. ALL Social Security is protected from collection, not just 2 months worth.
3. Dad is judgment proof, so turn the car in and stop paying the debts. Bankruptcy if you can't handle collection efforts.

JGoneRiding
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by JGoneRiding » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:21 pm

denovo wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:29 pm
Joejoe00 wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:51 pm
Can they garnish his social security?
No.
The best way to prevent an attempt if they get a judgment is to make sure he has a bank acct that ONLY Ss goes into. It might be a good idea to set up a new acct if he receives any other funding at all

Joejoe00
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by Joejoe00 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:34 pm

He just has one bank acct and only funding is social security

Archimedes
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by Archimedes » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:44 pm

The idea of paying the minimal payment on the credit card each month for Dad sounds like it will keep any collection attempts at bay and preserve the peace. If you can afford those minimal monthly payments, this sounds like what I would do in this circumstance. And you don't know how long this will need to go on since you cannot predict Dad's future health, but at least for the meantime it sounds like a potentially good option.

And if Dad is willing to let you turn in the leased car early, that could also be a good idea. You could let the leasing company know that he is going blind and is struggling to make the payments. Perhaps they will allow you to return the car early.

There are also companies that arrange lease takeovers to facilitate getting out of a lease early, but I don't have any personal experience with them.

ColoRetiredGirl
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by ColoRetiredGirl » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:53 pm

I would contact the credit card company and explain to them the situation. Tell them to close the account and ask them to forgive the debt or see if they would be willing to settle it for pennies on the dollar.

ColoRetiredGirl
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by ColoRetiredGirl » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:59 pm

mouses wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:46 pm
btenny wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:27 pm
Plus even if you file BK and do this work the debt will be sold to some collection agency. And those guys will drive you and your dad nuts over the phone and the mail and your door. And yes for $10K collection people will come to your door and ring the bell and scream at you. They may even try to make this bill your responsibility.
Can they do this legally? I thought bankruptcy cancelled various debts (not all types) in full. And there is some law that requires collections people to leave you alone if you write them a letter or something.



You are correct. If this ‘unsecured debt’ is canceled in bankruptcy, they cannot collect this debt. Additionally, they cannot contact you after a wriitten notice.

sawhorse
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by sawhorse » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:24 pm

Speak with a bankruptcy lawyer about a possible Chapter 7 bankruptcy. It'll ruin his credit, but at his age that doesn't really matter.

aristotelian
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by aristotelian » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:01 pm

thangngo wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:07 pm

He's 80. You should tell him that he should not worry about it. Let him live his life and enjoy. $10k credit card debt is minimal in the grand scheme of thing. Can he just make minimum payment until he's 100?
+1.

OP, how big a deal is $10K to you? I would be inclined to tear up the credit card, return the car, and pay everything off with a stern lecture. Then thank him for the roof he put over your head while you were a kid, etc. However, I certainly understand if you don't have the means to do that and you prefer the bankruptcy route.

NotWhoYouThink
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Re: Father financial trouble

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:08 pm

Good grief people, 80 isn't dead! It may not even be nearly dead! Dad may have many years of reckless spending in front of him, I see no reason for OP to start paying off debt so Dad can run up more.

Can he make lease payments and at least a token payment on the CC each month, and will he? If so, let him do that. (Edited to add: Looks like not, I'm sorry to hear that.) When he returns the car, either now or when the lease is up, let the dealer know there is no more money and his only asset is an account funded only by SS, which they can't touch. And let them and everyone else know that you are not responsible for his spending or debts.

It would feel nice and warm and fuzzy to make a $10K payment and clean up his messes forever, but it doesn't look like that's the kind of story OP is telling. Life and family are messy. It is kind of you to let him move in with you, but not at all necessary for you to subsidize his future profligacy.

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