My New Car Buying Tips

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focusedonwhatmatters
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by focusedonwhatmatters » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:28 am

I just completed the purchase of a hot new car for my mother using many of the strategies in this thread. I created a new email address specifically for this transaction because I didn't want spam, or to be searched. After doing my research, I composed a succinct email and sent it to 18 dealers in three states. Nearly all of them replied within a day. I quickly narrowed it to five, completed two more rounds of negotiations, and sealed the deal for 3% lower than the TrueCar "Exceptional Price", despite my mother not being flexible on color. I didn't provide my phone number until I had decided who would win the business. I instructed the dealer that my mother (who lives in a different state) would be coming in with a check made out for $XX, and not to up-sell her on extras. They didn't. It was a simple transaction for all. :D

arsenal_fan
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by arsenal_fan » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:41 am

focusedonwhatmatters wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:28 am
I just completed the purchase of a hot new car for my mother using many of the strategies in this thread. I created a new email address specifically for this transaction because I didn't want spam, or to be searched. After doing my research, I composed a succinct email and sent it to 18 dealers in three states. Nearly all of them replied within a day. I quickly narrowed it to five, completed two more rounds of negotiations, and sealed the deal for 3% lower than the TrueCar "Exceptional Price", despite my mother not being flexible on color. I didn't provide my phone number until I had decided who would win the business. I instructed the dealer that my mother (who lives in a different state) would be coming in with a check made out for $XX, and not to up-sell her on extras. They didn't. It was a simple transaction for all. :D
:) Any email template you can come up with? Some of us struggle with things like that. Congrats!

bbrock
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by bbrock » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:04 pm

Great Job focusedonwhatmatters!

I too am using some of the strategies outlined in this thread. I am securing ludicrous pricing on a 2018 Toyota Highlander XLE AWD w/ 2nd row bench, & P 2T all weather mats/cargo liner. So far I’m at 2.65% below true car exceptional/unusually low price.
bbrock

bbrock
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by bbrock » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:07 pm

After reaching out to 16 dealerships, three main rounds, we got it for 4.62% percent below the true car exceptional/unusually low price.

The tips/techniques worked quite well. Yes, many of the dealerships wanted to me to supply the Vin or the quote directly to them, but it was those dealerships that took me seriously and provided their quotes that I ended up negotiating with. Too bad my local dealership here never came through. It was such a tug a war with them from them wanting me to come in, to supply them with the quote, and they only finally gave me a quote which was very low an hour before I got to the dealership I bought at.

Anyhow, it all worked out well and we got the preferable color we wanted, which was never a main thing because the deal was more important than color.
bbrock

surveyor
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by surveyor » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:31 am

6 dealers in my area. Three would give me OTD prices via email. All would meet the OTD price of the others. None would go any further without a competitor's written offer. Tough game they play. Ended up emailing the salesperson at the dealership we did the test drive at (who wouldn't give a OTD price). I gave him a number below the lowest and said I'd be comfortable buying for that price today. He wouldn't counter via email because "he didn't want that used against him". I agreed to negotiate via phone and it was taken care of pretty quickly. I'm pretty sure I did better than if I would have gone in but probably didn't do as well if I could have worked them against each other. I beat Trucar pretty handily and didn't have to go into the dealership.

inbox788
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by inbox788 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:24 am

surveyor wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:31 am
6 dealers in my area. Three would give me OTD prices via email. All would meet the OTD price of the others. None would go any further without a competitor's written offer. Tough game they play. Ended up emailing the salesperson at the dealership we did the test drive at (who wouldn't give a OTD price). I gave him a number below the lowest and said I'd be comfortable buying for that price today. He wouldn't counter via email because "he didn't want that used against him". I agreed to negotiate via phone and it was taken care of pretty quickly. I'm pretty sure I did better than if I would have gone in but probably didn't do as well if I could have worked them against each other. I beat Trucar pretty handily and didn't have to go into the dealership.
This is a form of collusion!
Guaranteed profits
Price-match guarantees prevent rather than provoke price wars
https://www.economist.com/news/finance- ... ed-profits
Our findings establish that when costs are symmetric, price-matching guarantees significantly increase market prices. In markets with cost asymmetries, guaranteed prices remain high relative to prices without the use of guarantees, but the overall ability of price guarantees to act as a collusion facilitating device becomes contingent on the relative cost difference. Lesser use of guarantees, combined with lower average prices and slower convergence to the collusive level, suggest that the mere presence of cost asymmetries may curtail collusive behavior.
http://myweb.lmu.edu/jpate/pricematching.pdf
As can be seen in the price-setting game above, for both Home Depot and Lowes, their own best pricing strategy, based on the strategy of the other player, is to price “low.” This is a Nash equilibrium, and it is not the most profitable situation. If the firms could communicate with one another, they could each decide to price at “high,” and make more profit. A price matching guarantee does exactly that— it eliminates the possibility of one firm undercutting another.
http://www.overtcollusion.com/pricing/2 ... ishwa.html
The price-matching guarantee eliminates the dilemma of the classic prisoners’ dilemma. This guarantee communicates both a firm’s desire to price high and also the threat that pricing low won’t steal the market. In this sense, it is tacit collusion- unspoken yet real communication. The only difference between this situation and two executives sitting in a smoke-filled room agreeing to fix the prices of dishwashers at $449.00 is that no physical meeting takes place, and that consumers assume they’re getting a good deal. But according to economic theory, it is collusive activity anyway.

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macandal
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by macandal » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:21 pm

bbrock wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:07 pm
After reaching out to 16 dealerships, three main rounds, we got it for 4.62% percent below the true car exceptional/unusually low price.
So, when I read expressions like this, do you mean below the TrueCar value or below MSRP?

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macandal
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by macandal » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:28 pm

surveyor wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:31 am
None would go any further without a competitor's written offer.
Yes, they do ask to see the other dealer's offer. So far, I haven't shown anyone anything, but, what do you do in these cases? Do you forward them the quote (I'm doing everything via email to start with) or not? What do you do in these types of situations?

I'm a total newbie, looking for tips on how to negotiate.

Thanks.

denovo
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by denovo » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:11 pm

bbrock wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:07 pm
After reaching out to 16 dealerships, three main rounds, we got it for 4.62% percent below the true car exceptional/unusually low price.

The tips/techniques worked quite well.

Anyhow, it all worked out well and we got the preferable color we wanted, which was never a main thing because the deal was more important than color.
:sharebeer

Good to know this strategy is still working.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

bbrock
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by bbrock » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:41 pm

macandal wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:21 pm
bbrock wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:07 pm
After reaching out to 16 dealerships, three main rounds, we got it for 4.62% percent below the true car exceptional/unusually low price.
So, when I read expressions like this, do you mean below the TrueCar value or below MSRP?
4.62% below the lowest price (exceptional at True Car/unusually low at True Car through CR website) on the bell curve.
This was 12.12% below MSRP, 5.16% below invoice.
bbrock

hudson
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:40 am

macandal wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:28 pm
surveyor wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:31 am
None would go any further without a competitor's written offer.
Yes, they do ask to see the other dealer's offer. So far, I haven't shown anyone anything, but, what do you do in these cases? Do you forward them the quote (I'm doing everything via email to start with) or not? What do you do in these types of situations?

I'm a total newbie, looking for tips on how to negotiate.

Thanks.
Maybe it depends on the vehicle. If the vehicle is scarce or in high demand, the dealer can play games like asking for written offers. I tried the bidding system with a vehicle that I thought that I wanted badly. I found out after calling dealers and researching that there were only a handful of those vehicles in my region. I changed vehicle to something that was plentiful, and the bidding system worked.

If asked for a written competitor's offer, I would thank that dealer and move to another. Maybe that dealer's not ready to sell. I have a local dealer who I would like to deal with that isn't flexible at all; he'll give you one OTD price and that's it. He'll only deal with what's on the lot. Therefore I do my business 30-100 miles away.

When running the bidding system to buy a car, I just communicate by phone. I don't announce that I'm doing the bidding thing. I say that I need a specific kind of vehicle in the next 3 days and I need the lowest OTD price. I save the contact information and repeat with another dealer. I'll include far away dealers. I always get the James Bragg...Fighting Chance Package so that I can get his info package and I can call him on the phone for coaching. I'll go three rounds with any dealer who gives me an OTD price. I am friendly and honest with the salesperson or sales manager; I give out my phone number and email. I am not very chatty; sometimes they ask me if I'm still on the line. I like the dealerships that don't play any games and say, "What can I do to earn your business?"

bbrock
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by bbrock » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:21 pm

@macandal. The dealers that wanted my to email them the quote, I just keep emailing and insisting that that was not necessary in order to provide me w/ their best offer. They know it, as do I, that they can provide their quote. Ultimately I attribute it to a stalling technique akin to what denovo was explaining happens when you are in a dealership. I think it is there way to try to wear you down. For instance, my local dealership kept insisting I call them (I never provided a legit phone number until the day off) or come in. The sales internet manager (they are all titled manager but they are not) kept insisting that I provide them the emailed quote. I supplied them some of the email string, but I deleted the senders name, email, identifying details. I gave them some of my email string w/ the lowest bidder at that time. Even after that, they still would not provide their offer. It wasn't until purchase day that the actual sales manager emailed me their bid, but it was too late as I was already at the dealership I was going to purchase at. Regardless, their bid was not the lowest, but rather the new "2nd lowest."

What I take from that is that they could have supplied me their bid throughout the entire process. The tug of war was pointless. The sales manager even admitted in the email that he trains his staff not to give bids via email. They will do whatever it takes to get you to come in or stall the process to shift the power back to them.
bbrock

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macandal
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by macandal » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:58 pm

bbrock wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:07 pm
...exceptional at True Car/unusually low at True Car through CR website...
?

I don't know what CR is. I'm understanding this to be 4.12% below "TrueCar Value," below taxes and fees are added.

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macandal
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by macandal » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:01 pm

hudson wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:40 am
I like the dealerships that don't play any games and say, "What can I do to earn your business?"
Aggggghhh..!!!

I get these emails everyday.

Answer, give me the car at my stated price of $XXXXX!!

focusedonwhatmatters
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by focusedonwhatmatters » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:03 pm

arsenal_fan wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:41 am
focusedonwhatmatters wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:28 am
I just completed the purchase of a hot new car for my mother using many of the strategies in this thread. I created a new email address specifically for this transaction because I didn't want spam, or to be searched. After doing my research, I composed a succinct email and sent it to 18 dealers in three states. Nearly all of them replied within a day. I quickly narrowed it to five, completed two more rounds of negotiations, and sealed the deal for 3% lower than the TrueCar "Exceptional Price", despite my mother not being flexible on color. I didn't provide my phone number until I had decided who would win the business. I instructed the dealer that my mother (who lives in a different state) would be coming in with a check made out for $XX, and not to up-sell her on extras. They didn't. It was a simple transaction for all. :D
:) Any email template you can come up with? Some of us struggle with things like that. Congrats!
Sorry, I just saw this. No, I didn't have a template, I just wrote a letter stating what I wanted. I told them I wasn't interested in special offers such as ski passes and oil changes, just give me their best offer. Conducting business by e-mail alone made it easy to "walk away".

Ithrive
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by Ithrive » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:08 am

Question: How do you find out the email addresses for the dealerships? There has to be an easier way than calling them all to ask and it's not listed on the webpages I've checked.

Thanks

denovo
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by denovo » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:18 am

Ithrive wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:08 am
Question: How do you find out the email addresses for the dealerships? There has to be an easier way than calling them all to ask and it's not listed on the webpages I've checked.

Thanks
Look more carefully. Most have a directory or contact option.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

bbrock
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by bbrock » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:28 am

Use the KBB (Kelly blue book) app. After u price a new car, the last page gives u an option to contact/email many nearby dealerships. The screen is populated with many dealerships b/c earlier in the process u enter ur zip code.
bbrock

Ithrive
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by Ithrive » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:34 pm

bbrock wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:28 am
Use the KBB (Kelly blue book) app. After u price a new car, the last page gives u an option to contact/email many nearby dealerships. The screen is populated with many dealerships b/c earlier in the process u enter ur zip code.
Thanks

abeln2672
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by abeln2672 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:20 pm

I see this thread isn't active, but I wanted to chime in since I found the info here useful when buying our CX-5 this week. I'd used a similar method when I bought my last new car in 2008 after reading James Bragg's first book, but the nuances and experiences people shared here were really helpful, so thanks everyone! We got our car for about $900 under invoice or 6.5% off MSRP. That wasn't as cheap as I was hoping, but crossovers are so hot right now, the CX-5 is Mazda's top seller, and we took their 0% financing...so I guess crazy discounts couldn't be expected. Anyway, here's what I learned after being on the sidelines the past 10 years:
  • Dealers seem to know they have to quote via email now. I contacted 26 dealers during this search the past 3 days and was pleased that all but a handful gave me a firm, itemized quote via email (most within hours). Some tried getting me to call or come down to the dealership, but when I replied to say it wasn't happening and that they were welcome to participate or not, most came back with numbers.
  • I scheduled all of our test drives online in advance via the dealer website and would suggest this rather than walking in. We got assigned to internet advisors rather than random sales guys, and emailing in advance allowed me to explain that we wouldn't be buying that day and had a ton more cars to test. Nobody pressured us or attempted to talk price -- they just greeted us and handed over keys and business cards.
  • You've gotta be very organized if you're casting a wide net. Like others have suggested, I started a spreadsheet to track who I contacted, whether they replied, bid 1 quotes, bid 2, bid 3, etc. It can get confusing -- especially early when there are lots of players -- so organization helped.
  • Dealers still use the same slimy lines and tactics online as they do in person. Some of it you can control or ignore, such as being firm with people who won't talk numbers, but isntead say things like, "We'll beat anyone by $500." Other times, you just shake your head. We thought we had a deal with two different dealers, only to have the final purchase agreements I requested by email look different than the numbers I'd confirmed earlier via email and phone -- crap like tacking on random fees/taxes or including a rebate we didn't qualify for just so they could lower the OTD on paper but snatch it away at delivery. It's hard to believe this stuff still happens in 2018...makes you sick.
  • I know this argument goes both ways in the thread, but I didn't mind providing screenshots of itemized quotes to dealers who asked if I thought they were serious contenders and might beat it. I just edited out the name and contact info of the person who provided the quote, but kept the portions of the screen showing it was in my inbox. I never had anybody doubt a quote I forwarded to them, and honestly I think it helped drive down price in a couple instances, especially the final deal.
  • I wouldn't limit your search to dealers who have the car in stock -- we ended up buying from a dealer that didn't. We'd contacted him early in the search when we were open to either of two model years and trim levels, but he asked to stay in the running even after we'd settled on a configuration he didn't have. I was skeptical, but since he was local I was glad to come back to him for bid after bid, both when things were looking good and bad for us. In the end he matched a great price we got from an out of state dealer (after I emailed him the quote) and he purchased the car from a different dealer 2 hours away (one who I'd contacted earlier in the search, but who wouldn't budge on price. Ironic.).
  • I purchased James Bragg's "Fighting Chance Info Package" for the first time, mainly because I loved his first book and his website was so helpful to me the last time I bought a car 10 years ago. Honestly, unless you need a ton of hand holding I don't think it's worth it. You get very clear invoice prices, but that can probably be dug up elsewhere. Plus you're not really chasing invoice these days -- you're just going after the best possible price you can get at that moment in time. He does provide templates for emails and phone conversations, but I found that what I typed up worked just fine and sounded more like me. I've heard Mr. Bragg will hand hold you via telephone if you buy his package and really need personal attention, so I guess that would be a big advantage to some...I just didn't feel I needed it. But who knows -- if you're curious, buy it. Lord knows the guy has done a ton for consumers.
All in all, this system still works great and is the ONLY way to buy a new car IMO. I didn't save as much as I wanted, but I have no doubt it was still much better than I could dream of doing in person. I'm no expert, but lemme know if I can be of assistance to anyone.

hudson
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Tue May 01, 2018 4:53 am

Thanks abeln2672!

I always get James Bragg's package when buying a new car. His strategies change through the years. He used to be in favor of using the fax machine; now he favors a personal phone call followed up with emails. I also like to call him if needed. On my last bid process things weren't going well, so I called him. I know that I should have figured it out myself; he told me that I was trying to buy a vehicle that was too specialized....I changed horses and things worked out. I believe that I get my money's worth from his service. He can also be very helpful with negotiating a lease.

I also read his book; it's out of print...but available used... https://www.amazon.com/Buyers-Leasers-N ... op?ie=UTF8

Your hints on dealers and emails are helpful. When I went through the bid process 5 years ago many of the dealers quoted me over the phone and followed up with emails.

I agree with you that a spreadsheet or large piece of paper is needed to keep track of the bids....or maybe a bunch of note cards.

I never had a dealer cheat on their numbers. On my last bidding process, dealers were all bidding on a specific VIN numbered vehicle; I didn't know which dealer had it until later; it was 200 miles away at a dealer that wasn't included. A losing dealer bought that specific VIN vehicle either out of spite, or he was trying to get me to buy from him. The winning dealer gave me comparable vehicle priced higher at the same price...I should have thanked the loser. (The winning dealership's general manager called me and thanked me for sticking with them and told me that my Dec. 31st purchase helped them have a very successful year.)

I like your idea about sending an emailed "winning quote" to a dealer on request after removing identifying info. Bragg recommends that you remove that dealer from consideration along with a strong verbal reply.

Bragg's system has changed me from being a wimp negotiator to an effective negotiator.

I usually never contact more than 10 dealers; but I'll touch base with dealers in adjoining states to see if there's any interest. I also learned that for my situation that the larger fancy dealerships did more talking and less negotiating. The small town dealerships were happy to negotiate until the end.

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William4u
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by William4u » Tue May 01, 2018 5:22 am

abeln2672 wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:20 pm
We thought we had a deal with two different dealers, only to have the final purchase agreements I requested by email look different than the numbers I'd confirmed earlier via email and phone -- crap like tacking on random fees/taxes or including a rebate we didn't qualify for just so they could lower the OTD on paper but snatch it away at delivery. It's hard to believe this stuff still happens in 2018...makes you sick.
Yup. I just expect this when I buy a car. Sad but true. I recently bought a toyota and two dealers did this. I use the Bragg method, and trust in the Bragg process. It works, despite such dishonest practices.

LawEgr1
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by LawEgr1 » Tue May 01, 2018 7:20 am

I referenced this thread heavily for our recent car purchase 1.5 weeks ago. Here is what I found -

-Test drove vehicle at high volume dealer with lowest online price. It clearly showed all incentives and rebates. This provided my baseline.
-Told our very nice / low pressure salesman that I'd bid out to at least another dealership
-I found some dealerships and more specifically, brands, varied on how they presented the best "price" online. Some were very clear and competitive from the get go. Some, not so much. Examples: Honda and Toyota dealerships in my area had the MSRP prices. Subaru, Hyundai had clearly laid out rebates / incentives, etc.

-Requested lowest OTD price from another dealership online for similar make / model / features.

-Then asked our previous salesman for an extended test drive (i.e. overnight) to solidify our choice. Of course, that sold the car. Upon return the next morning I said if you make a competitive offer here and now you've got a deal. We then went to breakfast. About 1.5 hours later he texted me the OTD offer on a contract. It was a good price, good enough to pull the trigger. I quickly called the other dealership and they wouldn't beat it. Texted previous salesman we had a deal.

-as their online site indicated, it clearly showed all rebates and incentives.
-There was almost no pushing the extended warranties or anything.
-We obtained four free oil changes and tire rotations
-In and out in about two hours after we arrived for closing the deal.

Before all of this I did extensive research at specific car forums understanding what OTD individuals paid for the certain car, used TrueCar, understood what invoice price was (not that it mattered really in this case). This gave me more confidence as to what a decent deal was. Given that I had a good repoir with the initial salesman and the other dealership said they didn't want to compete, I was more than happy to give him the sale.

All of the above was via text message with the dealership we utilized. Our salesman was probably mid to upper 30's. Quite frankly, it was awesome and painless. A lot better than haggling forever on my used car I purchased in 2015.

Edit: Should note this was a Hyundai.

abeln2672
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by abeln2672 » Tue May 01, 2018 9:05 am

Happy to see a little action in this thread as I think it's a fun topic even if you're not currently in the market. It's seriously wild how crazy the average consumer gets when it comes to buying a car. It's such a huge purchase, but most put very little thought or effort into it.

I just wanted to quickly add one more thing since I saw a comment about it in a different car buying thread: most dealer sites have a "Contact Us" link on the very bottom of the site, and that's what I used to reach out for initial quotes. Most don't require a phone number in order to submit, but when they did I always entered 555-555-5555. Like I said, I really didn't have any trouble getting quotes via email anyway, and when folks asked me to call I simply told them I wouldn't but that it was their choice whether or not to participate via email. So if you'd rather not give up your phone number, you truly don't have to.

tydas
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by tydas » Thu May 03, 2018 2:44 pm

Here is a dumb question, I plan to use this process, I am assuming that once I agree upon the price, when you go to pick up the car, you do an inspection and a quick test drive to make sure nothing is wrong?

Another strange thing, I am looking at the kia optima, the truecar app and website have two different prices for the same car? the app is lower by several thousand dollars, anyone ever experience that?

abeln2672
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by abeln2672 » Mon May 07, 2018 9:16 am

tydas wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 2:44 pm
Here is a dumb question, I plan to use this process, I am assuming that once I agree upon the price, when you go to pick up the car, you do an inspection and a quick test drive to make sure nothing is wrong?

Another strange thing, I am looking at the kia optima, the truecar app and website have two different prices for the same car? the app is lower by several thousand dollars, anyone ever experience that?
Good luck! To answer your first question, I definitely do a thorough visual inspection of the car both inside and out to make sure there are no cosmetic issues like scratches, loose trim, headliner issues, stains, dash problems, etc. Likely everything will be fine, but pre-existing problems with cosmetic issues would be hard to prove after you take delivery of the car. I've never test driven a new car on delivery, but I don't see the harm in it. That said, mechanical issues will be covered under warranty if you're buying a new car, so anything that comes up would be fixed eventually anyway.

Not sure on your second question, but I will say this: the TrueCar price is interesting, but mostly worthless anyway. If you do this correctly (and near the end of the month), you'll get many, many bids from dealers over several rounds. At that point, your only concern is getting the absolute lowest price -- regardless of the TrueCar, Edmunds, Costco, or even invoice prices. Those are out the window. The only question to ask is, "Can somebody else beat this price?"

crazychris
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by crazychris » Thu May 17, 2018 2:43 pm

I'm encouraged by all the posts on this thread. Just started this process today! Haven't received any quotes yet, but it has been less than 4 hours :) Part of me is excited to do this, and another part is worried about not getting any interest because dealers may have "wizened up". Will keep you guys posted!

bbrock
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by bbrock » Thu May 17, 2018 10:30 pm

Regarding your first question, after I had an agreed-upon price, already knowing the car I was completely intending to purchase, I didn’t even bother with the test drive or the inspection. Was not going to sweat cosmetic issues, as when I find them, if it matter that much, I bring it up during warranty. YMMV.
bbrock

tydas
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by tydas » Mon May 21, 2018 1:21 pm

I started the process today as well. Got tons of responses, one guy communicated well but is still $1000 higher than NADA or Tru Car lowest price...they are all trying to get me in the dealership but am following the program and being patient until I get the price I think is fair. BTW, if anyone wants a great podcast to check out 'Deal Talk' by Jerome Velt, he is great to listen too and has some useful tips.

One question for anyone, if I see the exceptional trucar price, does that include the destination fee or should I add that to the trucar low price?

BanditKing
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by BanditKing » Mon May 21, 2018 1:26 pm

tydas wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 1:21 pm
One question for anyone, if I see the exceptional trucar price, does that include the destination fee or should I add that to the trucar low price?
You want to be asking for the "out the door" pricing inclusive of taxes and fees, so you don't have surprises. I assume tru-car doesn't include delivery fees, paper fees, sales tax, thumb tax, carpet tax, tax fees, and fee taxes. :P

tydas
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by tydas » Mon May 21, 2018 2:19 pm

Yes, that is what I have been doing, just trying to figure out when I get to a fair price. Some dealers were trying to do high plate and doc fees, one wanted $900

hudson
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Mon May 21, 2018 2:42 pm

tydas wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 2:19 pm
Yes, that is what I have been doing, just trying to figure out when I get to a fair price. Some dealers were trying to do high plate and doc fees, one wanted $900
If you are doing the "out the door price" it doesn't matter what the charge for that or anything else. The "out the door price" is all you need to look at.

tydas
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by tydas » Tue May 22, 2018 11:50 am

So...I understand from reading that people don't go by Trucar as it may be to high however...I am looking at a Kia Optima and both TruCar and NADA have a exceptional/low price of $24,500, figure with a $400 plate and doc fee plus tax that should be $26,800 OTD..All the offers I am getting are around $28,000 OTD..I am wondering if TruCar and NADA are off on this car? I am going to be persistent and patient and see what happens but right now I am at 18% under MSRP so that does seem pretty good...

tydas
Posts: 23
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by tydas » Fri May 25, 2018 9:32 am

Well, for anyone interested, I completed my purchase using this process. Final price was $400 below Truecar exceptional price. I think a couple people mention that one of the nice side bonuses is that when you go to the dealership they don't bother trying to up-sell you anything because I assume they know you are a savvy buyer.

I sent emails to around 12 dealers and only 5 responded with a OTD price. I felt my price was right when i stopped getting responses at my lowest price. One thing I noticed that was not mentioned, I got two emails personally from the general sales manger, I ended up calling him to finalize the deal, he balked initially and required to see the other offers in writing but he caved and gave me the price.

I was out of the dealership in about an hour, mostly listening to the salesman go over the car with me..

Thanks All!

hudson
Posts: 1486
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Bought a New Toyota Using the Bidding System

Post by hudson » Sat May 26, 2018 1:59 pm

I used the bidding system without saying anything about it.
I used one 3x5 card to write the name and phone number of each dealer. I made changes as needed. I kept the OTD, Out the Door Price on that card...and the name of the contact person.

I called each dealer by phone and gave them any information that they wanted but I asked for the sales or internet manager. I said that I was a serious buyer for a very specific Toyota and that I was buying today or tomorrow and I wanted their OTD price. I gave them 3 color preferences.
Some gave the price right then and emailed me a description; many gave me the price later...some by email...some by phone...their choice. Some promised a price, but I never got it.

I didn't state any ground rules, I just wanted the OTD price and their contact information. If they promised to price match, I kind of mumbled or changed the subject, but asked again for their OTD price. If they promised to go $500 under any written quote that I presented....same thing...I'd start mumbling and change the subject and ask for their best price.

I think that I had about 8 OTD quotes; one was 2K lower than the rest. I called everybody back and said that I was going to have to go with the 2K lower bid. I even called a few that hadn't given me quotes to see if they would bite. One dealer that was kind of late to the game turned out to be the winning dealer. That really got some of the contacts excited...but not enough to drop 2K. They accused the quoting dealer of being dishonest and said that I should watch out. They wanted to see my written quote. I said that I would rather not share that; I would double check everything with the 2K lower dealer before putting down a deposit.

One dealer said that we're a meet and beat dealer; if you give us a written quote, we'll beat it. I turned that down and said, all I want is your lowest OTD price. He said that he would call me back; He did and he gave me a price $300 lower than the 2K lower dealer.

Now I'm down to 2 dealers: I called both and said that it's down to you and another dealer. Your quotes are very close; I'm ready to make a decision. I'll decide tomorrow morning; please send me a written quote by tomorrow morning and I'll decide. The 2K lower dealer came down $300 more overnight. I called the "losing" dealer and told him that I was going with 2K lower because he was 20 miles closer. He got excited and asked what it would take. I didn't have anything constructive to say; he knew what to do...the call was over. His boss called me 2 minutes later and dropped $500 more and said that he would do all the paperwork remotely and deliver the car to my door. I requested a written proposal. I got it 3 minutes later; it was 2K higher (VERY DECEPTIVE) than the winning dealer. I called and told him that I wanted the OTD price; he didn't make any changes so I went with the low OTD price. I was kind of frustrated with the dealer that gave me the deceptive prices; but his actions saved me $500 as the other dealer dropped his price. The moral of the story is always ask for a written proposal before you make any final decisions. I had several request the written proposals but I just started mumbling and requested their lowest price.

I believe that I got the lowest price available for that vehicle in my area.

Leesbro63
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by Leesbro63 » Mon May 28, 2018 8:29 pm

I have to tell you, the post above makes me wonder a bit. I am very "value conscious". But I'm not sure I'd want to work that hard to save $500 by beating up a car dealer that thoroughly...not that I love car dealers. My approach is to get a few bids at a few convenient dealers, maybe go back and forth once or twice and if I pay $500 too much, so be it.

alwi228
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by alwi228 » Mon May 28, 2018 8:42 pm

So, this is a tough thread since bogleheads mostly hate new cars :) but here is a pretty simple route for anyone who has mediocre car and internet experience (this has worked for me on my last 4 new cars). Search Cars.com an area of 250 miles (the most im realistically willing to drive to have someone evaluate my trade in, or drive in general if I dont have a trade in). Through email or phone, if they dont agree to the bottom price they had listed on cars.com (this is COMMON! Dealers list prices that are not actually obtainable), then walk out, which helps with the small amount one has driven to scope out such a deal. Anyways, after sending dealers within 100 miles the lowest deal in 250 miles for a few weeks, i have always got someone to eventually agree to the terms. This, as in anything else, does NOT work if you desperately need the car. My wifes last car took 4 months.

hudson
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Tue May 29, 2018 5:39 am

Leesbro63 wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 8:29 pm
I have to tell you, the post above makes me wonder a bit. I am very "value conscious". But I'm not sure I'd want to work that hard to save $500 by beating up a car dealer that thoroughly...not that I love car dealers. My approach is to get a few bids at a few convenient dealers, maybe go back and forth once or twice and if I pay $500 too much, so be it.
My plan exactly. I called 8-10 dealers to start with because I didn't know who would negotiate on price. You never know which dealer wants to sell a car. In my case, once one dealer dropped the price by 2K, I was ready to quit. As a courtesy, I called the dealers that I considered to be serious informing them of the low bid; all but one bowed out. That one was dishonest and lowered his bid with the SALES price instead of the requested OTD price. The dishonest dealer is actually the one that squeezed the last $500 out of the low price dealer. I was getting ready to buy from the dishonest dealer until I saw his written proposal. (I only ask for written proposals from final bidders...when I'm getting ready to place a deposit.)

It seems like big city dealers won't play the bid game. I've only had luck with the smaller town dealers. They're interested if they have the vehicle you want in stock or if it's on the way. They're interested if they'll find the vehicle you want and swap it with another dealer. Many dealers don't do the search and swap. I'm looking for an internet manager or sales manager who wants to sell a car badly to make a sales goal....so I call all of the above at least once.

I've found that once you get down to the end of the bidding process, that I'm not doing the squeezing, it's two or three sales managers wanting to add a notch to their belts. By this time, the salesperson is out of the picture and you are dealing with a manager.

core4portfolio
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by core4portfolio » Tue May 29, 2018 8:03 am

While I purchased my new car Honda CRV EX 2WD back in Jan 2018, I know what is the exceptional price of that car and my budget.
So I havent done bidding game.
I have been following the internet pricing thread forum of that car for close to 6 months.
I sent an email to dealer who is 300 miles away asking for OTD price.
His quote came back as 26k. I told them my budget is only 25k.
Next day they send quote for 25.5k including small accessory in that price. I agreed to that price.
My friend also need a new car, want to counter that with local dealers which stretched one week of my time but no one willing to do so.
When I drove 300 miles and arrived dealership on buying day, sales person told car is sold and they need to get from another dealer.
Gave an offer for AWD with 1700 more and I know it also an exceptional price. i havent pulled the trigger.
I stick to my budget and informed I will go to next dealer if you dont have Now.
After 30 mins, I got brand new car loaded down from truck which is just 2 miles in Odometer.
Email strategy works but if you know whats exceptional price then you can do specify that number directly and be done with that.
Last edited by core4portfolio on Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Allocation : 80/20 (80% TSM, 20% TBM) | Need to learn fishing sooner

namenloseblonde
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by namenloseblonde » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:57 am

Denovo, thanks for starting this fabulous thread and sharing your secrets. I am planning to start the emailing process tomorrow and I have a couple of questions for you or the other experts on this thread. We are in the market for a 2018 Ford Explorer, and Ford is running a number of published incentives, including $1,000 back and 0% interest for 6 years for purchases through Ford Finance and $3,000 back on cash purchases (which is obviously just another way of saying that you're actually paying about 1.5-2% interest if you take the 0% loan on a $40K car). I don't think we can do better than 1.5-2% financing from a private lender, and though we could pay in cash, we're planning to take the 0% deal. What is the best way to handle this for the purposes of negotiation? Just tell them in the initial email that we want an OTD price including the 0% rebate? We also qualify for a current student rebate ($500) and we received a rebate certificate from TrueCar ($500), but I'm not sure if those rebates are combinable with each other or the 0%+rebate deal. I just don't want to get into a situation where we're not actually comparing apples to apples or the dealer quotes a price with ALL the rebates and then we find out when we go to get the car that one or more of them don't apply.

Also, we have seen a rather dizzying array of options available on this car, many of which cost quite a bit while adding absolutely nothing to our enjoyment of the car (a CD player in 2018, really?). We know what we prefer (black cloth interior plus red exterior is our top choice), but we are willing to accept second choices (black leather interior and black or white exterior) if the price is right. For instance, I received two window stickers from a dealer who had a red one with leather that cost almost exactly the same as a red one with cloth, simply because the cloth one had a bunch of other stuff we don't care about. We actually prefer cloth and don't want to pay for the leather upgrade, but if the cloth ones are going to be just as expensive due to a bunch of other dumb add-ons, we'd probably just take the leather. What's the best way to handle this? Tell them specifically which options are required and which we don't want/want to pay for?

BTW, I went into the local dealer who participates in the Costco program out of curiosity and they told me that Costco pricing is $300 over "invoice." Invoice on this particular model was $42,106 (MSRP of $43,810), so my price would be $42,406 minus all available rebates. Ignoring rebates, the Costco price was about 3% below MSRP. With the 0% + $1000 rebate, college student and TrueCar rebates added ($2000 total), it was about 7.8% below MSRP. I am certain I can do better than this, but I thought it was interesting to see how the Costco program worked. I did ask if there was any further wiggle room in that price and they said no, but they understood that I wasn't planning to buy right then and there so there wasn't really any incentive for them to haggle.

I'll report back on how the email process works for me, and in the meantime, thanks in advance for your help!

namenloseblonde
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by namenloseblonde » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:33 pm

I started my email campaign this morning so I thought I'd share my preliminary results! I sent the following email to about 35 dealers (through their "Contact Us" form on their website, with 555-555-5555 for the phone number) within a 75 mile radius of my home:

I am in the market for a XXX and would like to complete my purchase in the next two weeks, before the end of July. I am shopping online for the best price on a vehicle in COLOR with package XXX (cloth interior) and a sunroof (white or black exterior would also be acceptable). I would appreciate it if you could send me your best "out-the-door" price on this vehicle including a breakdown of all fees and rebates. I am planning to finance through the dealer if the 0% incentive is available. If not, I am pre-approved for private financing or may consider a cash purchase. I look forward to hearing from you.

I got a predictable assortment of "when can we talk on the phone" emails, all of which I simply deflected by stating that phone was not convenient for me and to please send any questions and a quote via email. It feels SO GOOD to say NO! Most of them did send quotes, although a couple simply didn't respond and one said they didn't negotiate prices online. Okay, BYE FELICIA. I got about 20 responses, and about half of those have sent me a quote already. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

Unfortunately, the combination of features and colors we really want seems to be uncommon enough that most dealers don't have one in stock. Also, there are four or five "bloatware" packages that we don't want, but nearly all models include at least one and sometimes several of these. Therefore, we have received quotes on vehicles that vary wildly in MSRP, making it a bit difficult to pinpoint the best deal. I created a spreadsheet to track the responses and added columns showing the MSRP and the quoted OTD best price, and then another column to calculate the percentage discount off MSRP. While I realize MSRP is not the number you want to use when negotiating, given the variety of options available on this car and fact that one dealer may not be able to quote the EXACT same model as another, I am thinking that when I ask dealers to beat a given price I will actually have to ask them to beat a percentage off MSRP.

Anyway, I have already gotten three quotes in the 8-9% off MSRP range including a $1,000 rebate from Ford. I will wait to discuss the other rebates until we're further along in the process, since they come from the manufacturer anyway. I will probably wait until Wednesday to start round 2, as I anticipate getting more initial quotes tomorrow. TrueCar claims an exceptional price for my area is 14% below MSRP - fingers crossed I can beat it!
Last edited by namenloseblonde on Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sman09
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by sman09 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:15 pm

core4portfolio wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 8:03 am
While I purchased my new car back in Jan 2018, I know what is the exceptional price of that car and my budget.
So I havent done bidding game.
I have been following the internet pricing thread forum of that car for close to 6 months.
I sent an email to dealer who is 300 miles away asking for OTD price.
His quote came back as 26k. I told them my budget is only 25k.
Next day they send quote for 25.5k including small accessory in that price. I agreed to that price.
My friend also need a new car, want to counter that with local dealers which stretched one week of my time but no one willing to do so.
When I drove 300 miles and arrived dealership on buying day, sales person told car is sold and they need to get from another dealer.
Gave an offer for AWD with 1700 more and I know it also an exceptional price. i havent pulled the trigger.
I stick to my budget and informed I will go to next dealer if you dont have Now.
After 30 mins, I got brand new car loaded down from truck which is just 2 miles in Odometer.
Email strategy works but if you know whats exceptional price then you can do specify that number directly and be done with that.

Excellent! Nice reading about the way you closed the deal.

A new car i bought last year had about 60 miles in it. Is that normal/Okay or is it a little too high for a new car?

I was on the market for a very long time trying various negotiating strategies backed by a thorough homework (such as gleaning information on user forums regarding the price paid in an area, extra features added etc.,) - finally the need for a car outweighed my ability to wait any further (Waited almost 3 months).

Looking back, not sure whether i should have used the 60 miles on odometer for a sharp bargain - any thoughts?

SixAlpha
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by SixAlpha » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:34 pm

namenloseblonde wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:33 pm
I started my email campaign this morning so I thought I'd share my preliminary results!
Sounds like you’re doing great so far!
namenloseblonde wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:33 pm
Unfortunately, the combination of features and colors we really want seems to be uncommon enough that most dealers don't have one in stock.
Have you tried using a site like CarGurus to try and find exact matches for what you want that are in stock nearby? Might help narrow things down a bit so you don’t end up overpaying for features you don’t need.

We recently purchased a Pilot using the email technique you’re employing. While we ended up with a fantastic deal (16% off MSRP plus a few accessories thrown in that we would have purchased anyways) In retrospect, I wish we’d taken a little more time to be better organized like you are. I’m sure you’ll get a great deal!

SixAlpha
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by SixAlpha » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:40 pm

sman09 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:15 pm

Looking back, not sure whether i should have used the 60 miles on odometer for a sharp bargain - any thoughts?
60 miles is not worth fussing about. A handful of test drives can easily burn up 100 miles or so. When we test drove our Pilot, our dealership’s preferred test drive route was nearly 20 miles long!

namenloseblonde
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by namenloseblonde » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:21 pm

Well, I'm running into a snag now that I've started shopping my best quote around. There are six dealers who are quoting the same VIN (the one who actually has the car on their lot is the farthest from my home, so not my preferred dealer). The dealer in possession and three others have quoted the EXACT same price, down to the dollar. One dealer (where we did our test drive, interestingly enough) was much higher. The final dealer quoted a price that was about $400 lower, so I have now taken that quote to the three dealers at that price that don't have the car on their lot. Two of them flatly refused to come down. I'm waiting on the third now, and wondering if this is collusion at play!

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Blueskies123
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by Blueskies123 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:53 pm

namenloseblonde wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:21 pm
Two of them flatly refused to come down. I'm waiting on the third now, and wondering if this is collusion at play!
Yep, this was inevitable. All dealers can share profitability and sales statistics among themselves. They to have their industry trade shows and meetings. They also can see each others inventory and sell the same VIN. It is not much of leap forward to think they may all agree on selling the car for the same price. Wink Wink.
My son-in-law had to fly out of state to get the deal on his 4 wheel drive truck but it was worth it. One way ticket up and drove it back. You may have to extend you search out of the "local network" if you know what I mean. A one way ticket to a smaller city out of state might be two, three, four hundred dollars but might save that many times over.

Leesbro63
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by Leesbro63 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:51 pm

Blueskies123 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:53 pm
namenloseblonde wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:21 pm
Two of them flatly refused to come down. I'm waiting on the third now, and wondering if this is collusion at play!
Yep, this was inevitable. All dealers can share profitability and sales statistics among themselves. They to have their industry trade shows and meetings. They also can see each others inventory and sell the same VIN. It is not much of leap forward to think they may all agree on selling the car for the same price. Wink Wink.
My son-in-law had to fly out of state to get the deal on his 4 wheel drive truck but it was worth it. One way ticket up and drove it back. You may have to extend you search out of the "local network" if you know what I mean. A one way ticket to a smaller city out of state might be two, three, four hundred dollars but might save that many times over.
Plus the travel costs to drive thew new vehicle home. And time spent.

tydas
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by tydas » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:23 am

namenloseblonde wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:21 pm
Well, I'm running into a snag now that I've started shopping my best quote around. There are six dealers who are quoting the same VIN (the one who actually has the car on their lot is the farthest from my home, so not my preferred dealer). The dealer in possession and three others have quoted the EXACT same price, down to the dollar. One dealer (where we did our test drive, interestingly enough) was much higher. The final dealer quoted a price that was about $400 lower, so I have now taken that quote to the three dealers at that price that don't have the car on their lot. Two of them flatly refused to come down. I'm waiting on the third now, and wondering if this is collusion at play!
Honestly, you might need to be more flexible on the car you want. I would check the inventories of many of the dealers you mentioned and see what is close, unfortunately, that is a lot of work.

namenloseblonde
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by namenloseblonde » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:33 am

tydas wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:23 am

Honestly, you might need to be more flexible on the car you want. I would check the inventories of many of the dealers you mentioned and see what is close, unfortunately, that is a lot of work.
Yes, the fact that there are so few cars built to the specs we prefer is definitely a problem. The third dealer just came back and said they can't beat the price - obvious collusion. I will have to try my hand with the dealer who has that car on their lot if we really want it, but I have a bunch of decent offers on cars with a different (but acceptable) equipment package and color, so if I can't get the deal I want on this one, I'll try elsewhere.

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Blueskies123
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by Blueskies123 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:49 am

[/quote]
Plus the travel costs to drive thew new vehicle home. And time spent.
[/quote]


Correct, so for those working long hours or working and chasing kids it might be worth paying up, that is what the dealers are hoping. If you can get away for a day and be willing to drive 8-12 hours in a day it still may be worth it if the price is thousands less. I imagine in most cases it will not be thousands.

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