Travel insurance-2ndary versus primary

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sil2017
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:25 am

Travel insurance-2ndary versus primary

Post by sil2017 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:16 am

I will be trekking Mt Kilimanjaro , followed by a safari with a UK tour group within 10 days. Total number of days with Tour group is 20 days.

I have international travel insurance with Kaiser Permanente which will cover my urgent and emergency care. They will also provide transportation cost if it is an emergency. I have Chase Sapphire Preferred card which covers accidental death or dismemberment on public transportation (500k). Schedule airplane rides (100K) I think they cover lost baggage and flight delays too.

I bought world nomads travel insurance yesterday but realized that it is only secondary insurance.

World nomads secondary coverage is for trip delay (500), accidental death and dismemberment (5k), Emergency accident or sickness (100k), emergency evacuation at 300k, hospital advancement (500 USD), non emergency evacuation (25K), baggage delay etc-700 USD)

I believe I already have all the above with my Kaiser and Chase credit card except for Non emergency evacuation. In fact my kaiser medical has 1 million or more for medical cost and it covers urgent car and not just emergency care

Would I need the coverage from World Nomads if it is only secondary insurance? The cost is $133

jayk238
Posts: 436
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:02 pm

Re: Travel insurance-2ndary versus primary

Post by jayk238 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:49 am

Most people dont even get travel insurance but if you do primary should be enough particulary w that card -which we have too (the reserve for wife preferred for me)

sil2017
Posts: 242
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Re: Travel insurance-2ndary versus primary

Post by sil2017 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:56 am

I just called World Nomads. CSR keeps dodging the answer to my question about their secondary insurance coverage. I told CSR that I have international medical insurance through my employer and if by chance I need medical attention to be transferred to the hospital and get medical care, will the World Nomads or my Employer's insurance reimbursed me. I asked 3 times and rephrased the question. Every time , CSR answers with I am cover to 100k for medical but never answered who would pay for my medical fees (World Nomads or my Primary medical insurance)

It seems like the answer would be my Primary insurance with my Employer. Does anyone else think so?

I don't need trip cancelation as I am about to leave within 10 days.

The tour company needs prove of insurance. At first, I sent the UK company information about my Kaiser medical. Due to family asking about insurance again , I decided to purchase World Nomads . I told the UK tour that I bought another insurance and sent the summary plan benefits information to tour company as requested.

I am thinking I am going to cancel World Nomads and just stay with my Kaiser and Chase Sapphire Preferred card insurance instead.

What do you all think after the conversation with CSR from World Nomads

SrGrumpy
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Re: Travel insurance-2ndary versus primary

Post by SrGrumpy » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:01 am

Seems you are more than covered without World Nomads, and they can be a bit circumspect, though claims processing is first-rate. You need to read the small print. Also, World Nomads coupons are easy to find online with simple Google search. You can usually save about 7%. Make sure mountain climbing is covered and any charter transport.

student
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Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Travel insurance-2ndary versus primary

Post by student » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:04 am

I think GeoBlue offers primary insurance as there is an option that does not require you to have a primary health plan.

sil2017
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:25 am

Re: Travel insurance-2ndary versus primary

Post by sil2017 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:09 am

With my Kaiser Permanente CA insurance, my co pay is $15 for office visits. This will apply to urgent care abroad. If an emergency, I have full coverage without co-pay, same as in US.

tev9876
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Re: Travel insurance-2ndary versus primary

Post by tev9876 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:17 am

The Chase AD&D coverage only applies to the transportation time as I understand. If your plane crashes it will pay. If you fall off a cliff hiking the mountain it does not. It also only applies to motorized transportation by licensed operators that you pay for with the card. Riding a burro up the mountain - not covered. Train derails going up the mountain but you paid cash for the fare - not covered.

No matter what I would look into making sure whatever you have covers the higher risk activities you have planned. Breaking a leg tripping on a curb in downtown London might be covered, but breaking a leg running from a charging rhino might not be. Read every detail.

I've always used insuremytrip.com to find policies, but my experience is limited to helping friends for more mundane trips since I know my medical insurance covers me world wide, I can fend for myself if my flight is cancelled, and I am unlikely to be attacked by a rhino where I travel.

ResearchMed
Posts: 7076
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Travel insurance-2ndary versus primary

Post by ResearchMed » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:47 am

sil2017 wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:16 am
I will be trekking Mt Kilimanjaro , followed by a safari with a UK tour group within 10 days. Total number of days with Tour group is 20 days.

I have international travel insurance with Kaiser Permanente which will cover my urgent and emergency care. They will also provide transportation cost if it is an emergency. I have Chase Sapphire Preferred card which covers accidental death or dismemberment on public transportation (500k). Schedule airplane rides (100K) I think they cover lost baggage and flight delays too.

I bought world nomads travel insurance yesterday but realized that it is only secondary insurance.

World nomads secondary coverage is for trip delay (500), accidental death and dismemberment (5k), Emergency accident or sickness (100k), emergency evacuation at 300k, hospital advancement (500 USD), non emergency evacuation (25K), baggage delay etc-700 USD)

I believe I already have all the above with my Kaiser and Chase credit card except for Non emergency evacuation. In fact my kaiser medical has 1 million or more for medical cost and it covers urgent car and not just emergency care

Would I need the coverage from World Nomads if it is only secondary insurance? The cost is $133
We always get third party travel insurance through Trip Insurance Store (a broker), and usually purchase policies written by Travel Insured. (We've had some claims paid, including two large claims) without any nonsense.
It's very important for us that there *not* be any exclusions for pre-existing medical conditions, so the coverage must be started within 20 days of the first deposit. (There is another company that can do this if the policy is started within 24 hours of final payment (defined narrowly), but the terms of TI policies work better for us.)

In the future, you might also want to check the Travel insurance sub-forum of www.CruiseCritic.com - there are some who are very experienced with this there.

I do have some questions about the coverage you are describing.w
What good is a $500 guarantee/advancement to a hospital? That won't go far...
Also, what is a non-emergency "evacuation"? What does that actually cover?

I strongly agree about reading ALL of the "fine print" so that you know for sure that they types of coverage you might need *would* be included.
Double check what was suggested above AND also whether anything related to any pre-existing condition would also be covered.

And enjoy the trip. Sounds terrific :happy

RM
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Shallowpockets
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Re: Travel insurance-2ndary versus primary

Post by Shallowpockets » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:26 am

Your international travel insurance per Kaiser is, I believe, a reimbursement thing. Don't know if there are limits on that. I also have Kaiser. I have not seen any specific add on for international travel insurance. It is part of their coverage.
Any BH traveling to Africa for what you describe most certainly has disposable income. The most important thing about international travel is emergency evacuation. The other things, lost luggage, cancellations, etc may be covered by your credit card policy. \ I do not believe any credit cards cover emergency evacuation. Such a thing is usually the most expensive part of any losses in a travel experience. Most BH can weather loss of luggage, even trip cancellation, but evacuation is a big elephant.
Your trip is probably in excess of 15K a person. For your already paid for World Nomad insurance at $133, it is ludicrous to even debate the issue.
A good part of travel insurance is the ability to call someone for help that has the info you need.
I have used Allianz in the past. In fact, the frst time we ever even got travel insurance. DW had a stroke on a bus in Laos. We were not on any organized tour. I got her to Bangkok. Allianz knew the hospital and had a relationship and we walked out of there without having to pay anything out of pocket in order to leave. There was no reimbursement process needed. We got the best of medcal care and the bill was only about 3K anyway. I could have paid it easily.
Emergenecy evacuation. That is the heart and soul of travel insurance. All else you can probably afford if you had to.

sil2017
Posts: 242
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Re: Travel insurance-2ndary versus primary

Post by sil2017 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:42 am

I agree with emergency evacuation which is what I am interested in. Kaiser will pay for all urgent and emergency medical fees. I need to file a claim which is the same for any travel insurance.

I read the primer travel insurance from cruise critic forum. It mentioned "medjetassist" which is a stand alone emergency evacuation. Would this be the best to purchase? I can buy it for just the trip or for a year to 5 years.

Has anyone ever used this?

ResearchMed
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Re: Travel insurance-2ndary versus primary

Post by ResearchMed » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:58 am

sil2017 wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:42 am
I agree with emergency evacuation which is what I am interested in. Kaiser will pay for all urgent and emergency medical fees. I need to file a claim which is the same for any travel insurance.

I read the primer travel insurance from cruise critic forum. It mentioned "medjetassist" which is a stand alone emergency evacuation. Would this be the best to purchase? I can buy it for just the trip or for a year to 5 years.

Has anyone ever used this?
We have MedJetAssist, as an annual policy (not per-trip), but fotunately have never needed to use it, although we came a bit too close a few years ago.

First, the main advantage of it, vs other medevac coverage, is that YOU get to decide to be medevac'd and YOU get to choose the hospital in your home country. (This is for USA-based; not sure about other).
You aren't just medevac'd to the "nearest minimally suitable hospital".
-->> BUT you must be admitted as an inpatient to invoke this. Being in an ER or "observation" status is not sufficient.
Also, one must be at least 150 miles from home.

The ability to bypass beancounters and to avoid needing to place local medical providers in the possibly awkward position of needing to declare themselves not sufficiently qualified to treat you... that's good.

With the annual policy, we are covered for "regular" trips such as domestic business trips or to visit friends/family, as long as we are 150 miles from home, which is almost always the case.

When I had a medical emergency overseas and was taken by ambulance to hospital, it took them a while to stabilize me, and also we weren't sure just what was wrong.
There did come a time when we started thinking... "Should we call MedJetAssist and just get home??" It was almost a toss-up.
I turned the corner soon after that, and it took me a while to recover enough to pick up the last part of our trip.
(Our regular travel insurance picked up the costs of all of that. And I couldn't do much more than sit around in gorgeous settings, or just sit on a boat we had already chartered on Lake Como. But we were very glad we were able to continue.)

I think Cruise Critic has a few reports about people that have used MedjetAssist.

RM
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Shallowpockets
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Re: Travel insurance-2ndary versus primary

Post by Shallowpockets » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:53 pm

To OP, good luck in your Kilimanjaro climb. That is long hours there in the final assault and then coming down. You must have all your physical prep done by this time. Enough so that nothing bad happens to you. Getting down won't be a med assist jet, the porters would have to carry you.
From what I heard you will be handing out a lot of tips. Good luck.

sil2017
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:25 am

Re: Travel insurance-2ndary versus primary

Post by sil2017 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:00 pm

Thanks for the information. I checked out global rescue as well. Highly recommended by the American alpine club .

I spoke with CSR at global rescue in length. Global rescue would provide ground transfer to the helicopter location to transport me to the nearest hospital. Also, once stabilized, I have a transfer back home to the USA. No claims to make. My membership fee will cover it.

Also, even though my vacation is 32 days, I can choose the 14 days option as long as they are consecutive days.

Main reason for the medical evacuation is the 8 day trek rather than the safari.

Shallowpockets- Good to know that the porters could carry me down.

I had no problem with Machhu Picchu several years ago. I didn't train much but my sister were moving pretty quickly.

Problem would be the altitude sickness and cold.

End of January should be the warmest month.

I now have to decide whether to rent a sleeping bag or bring my Western Mountaineering ultra light. CSR at WM thinks my 20degree ( true to testing rating) with my micro fleece sleeping liner should be enough for my base camp at 15000 feet.

Im not so sure.

Researchmed- which insurance did you use to cover your ambulance trip?

ResearchMed
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Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Travel insurance-2ndary versus primary

Post by ResearchMed » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:27 pm

sil2017 wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:00 pm
Thanks for the information. I checked out global rescue as well. Highly recommended by the American alpine club .

I spoke with CSR at global rescue in length. Global rescue would provide ground transfer to the helicopter location to transport me to the nearest hospital. Also, once stabilized, I have a transfer back home to the USA. No claims to make. My membership fee will cover it.

Also, even though my vacation is 32 days, I can choose the 14 days option as long as they are consecutive days.

Main reason for the medical evacuation is the 8 day trek rather than the safari.

Shallowpockets- Good to know that the porters could carry me down.

I had no problem with Machhu Picchu several years ago. I didn't train much but my sister were moving pretty quickly.

Problem would be the altitude sickness and cold.

End of January should be the warmest month.

I now have to decide whether to rent a sleeping bag or bring my Western Mountaineering ultra light. CSR at WM thinks my 20degree ( true to testing rating) with my micro fleece sleeping liner should be enough for my base camp at 15000 feet.

Im not so sure.

Researchmed- which insurance did you use to cover your ambulance trip?
Our claims have been with Travel Insured.

However, with that episode I described, the hospital and ambulance were apparently free. (OTOH, the physician the hotel calls for visits to guests... well... he did "okay"!)
We felt badly that those medical services were "free to us", as we aren't tax-payers there. We *tried* to pay, and were told that the hospital had "no way to accept payments". I think I must have ended up at some sort of charity hospital. It wasn't that pleasant, but they did all the right things (per our physicians back home once we returned and described what happened).
We had dear friends who lived nearby, and we were supposed to travel with them that week. Instead, they traveled to us, and spent much of two days translating at hospital. Having them there was such a help, especially since they are like family.

But the extra costs travel, including changed transportation... all was paid promptly. It added up to hefty sum.

And our first claim with them, when, with less than 2 weeks before departure, DH had a medical emergency...all costs were non-refundable at that point, including the first time we decided to fly first class (and before our "awards" travel) was much more, and again... paid promptly.

BTW, having the pre-existing conditions *not* excluded probably speeds up any medically-related claim, as the insurer doesn't need to comb through previous medical records in case there is "something there" to disqualify the claim...
And "primary" coverage means you don't need to wait for another insurer to deny a claim, so that can speed things up a lot, too.

We just (yesterday) received a small check from them for a trip where the return flight was cancelled; the replacement flight was the next day.
Again, no nonsense.
They do, of course, require appropriate documentation/proof that the claim is valid, but that's fair enough.

TI has several different policies that TripInsuranceStore sells, but we always get the same policy.

We probably should have called them from overseas that time I got sick, but we were a bit overwhelmed (and I was out of it for a while).
Plus, we had our dear friends nearby, but didn't ask them for help until I was at hospital.
We'll handle things differently in the future, but hope we won't have more episodes like that!

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

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