Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

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chevca
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by chevca »

This of course comes down to the many ways Bogleheads count net worth, but the OP has a net worth of nearly $800k per the basic definition of assets minus liabilities. Does that change anything for some of you?

The OP says he would pay the Porsche off a few months after buying it and pay off the house a few years later. I think he/they will be fine! Avoiding lifestyle creep is somethiing to consider. But, they should be able to save and invest plenty in a short time.
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watchnerd
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by watchnerd »

Matas wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:29 pm

By "'starter Porsche' that isn't a toy" I guess I'd rule out the older air-cooled classics.
Otherwise:
1. What is your price range?
2. Warranty?
3. Manual or auto trans?
4. 2 seats or 4?
5. Convertible or hard top?
1. Price range -- I'm not looking to show off, just have driving fun. 40k max?
2. Nope
3. Manual
4. 2
5. Either
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watchnerd
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by watchnerd »

kenoryan wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:09 am
topper1296 wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:32 pm This thread makes my wondering if I should buy a used Omega watch (my dream watch) for $3-4K look pretty insignificant. :D

I haven't read all of the other responses, however I do agree with a few others that I have read that your retirement balance looks low.

I bought my wife an omega for her birthday 3 years ago. Paid $3500. Well, in October the Watch was starting to slow down so I sent it in to a Swiss Watch service center for battery change.
Well, the first error was buying a battery powered Swiss watch.
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watchnerd
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by watchnerd »

EnjoyIt wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:23 pm
watchnerd wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:18 pm
Should I get a porsche, too?

No, you already have a watch. You can't have 2 toys. Sorry.
I think I have 12 last time I counted...
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nv6425
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by nv6425 »

I just went through 2 years of the same machinations and bought a brand new 2017 C4S in October (1 month before my 40th birthday). My advice, buy the car, enjoy it and sell it if/when you're no longer excited about it. Sure you'll lose some money, but why do you earn it if not to enjoy it responsibly. I recognize that is not very Bogglehead of me, but as long as you're conscious that you need to get aggressive about saving to 'catch up' a bit, you'll be fine. Worst case, you buy the car, drive it for 3 years and sell it for $50K, that's a net $50K for your enjoyment.
Matas
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by Matas »

watchnerd wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:45 am
Matas wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:29 pm

By "'starter Porsche' that isn't a toy" I guess I'd rule out the older air-cooled classics.
Otherwise:
1. What is your price range?
2. Warranty?
3. Manual or auto trans?
4. 2 seats or 4?
5. Convertible or hard top?
1. Price range -- I'm not looking to show off, just have driving fun. 40k max?
2. Nope
3. Manual
4. 2
5. Either
Look at a 2009 or newer Cayman or Boxster (2009+ engines do not have the problematic intermediate shaft design). The "S" models have a bit more power, but "base" models have 275+hp - plenty of power in such a light car. Both have wonderful, high-reving flat 6 motors, fantastic handling and brakes.
Grasshopper911
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by Grasshopper911 »

I just picked up a 991.2 TTS earlier this year, my first Porsche as well. I daily drive it and absolutely love it. While not conservative from a Bogleheads perspective, it is very conservative from a supercar perspective. Most folks don’t look twice and it’ll run with any of the exotics out there.

I bought new (yes, too many hours on the configurator as well!), but have had zero regrets. We all work hard, May as well look forward to springing out of the bed each AM to drive to the office.

As someone else noted, your demographics match exactly that of the Porsche 911 audience. You can definitely afford it and won’t regret it later in life - in fact I anticipate it will be a memory you will cherish.

The more important question is ... which options!

Be sure to get the Sport Chrono, this is one item that will kill resale if it’s missed.
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Pcarfan911
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by Pcarfan911 »

Grasshopper911 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:31 am I just picked up a 991.2 TTS earlier this year, my first Porsche as well. I daily drive it and absolutely love it. While not conservative from a Bogleheads perspective, it is very conservative from a supercar perspective. Most folks don’t look twice and it’ll run with any of the exotics out there.

I bought new (yes, too many hours on the configurator as well!), but have had zero regrets. We all work hard, May as well look forward to springing out of the bed each AM to drive to the office.

As someone else noted, your demographics match exactly that of the Porsche 911 audience. You can definitely afford it and won’t regret it later in life - in fact I anticipate it will be a memory you will cherish.

The more important question is ... which options!

Be sure to get the Sport Chrono, this is one item that will kill resale if it’s missed.
Great input thanks. I think hell is freezing over with all the go’s from the Bogleheads !
lazydavid
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by lazydavid »

TheCowbell wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:51 am I'm the same age as the OP, have less than half his (current) income, and have almost 3x the retirement savings.

The rush to pay off the house doesn't make sense considering the relatively cheap borrowing environment. I would have focused on propping up retirement reserves.
This exactly. I'm also the same age as OP, wife and I each make roughly half what he does, and our portfolio should pass $900k for the first time today (nice way to close out the year!). Have about $100k less equity on a home worth less than half of his (so more than double the equity %), with absolutely no intentions of paying it off anytime soon.

I'm also a car guy, but would not dream of spending $100k on a toy at this stage. Hell we just put off replacing my wife's 2007 Lexus for a few more years because we don't feel comfortable dropping $70k while it still works just fine, even though we have the cash to do so. My compromise is daily driving a BMW 3-series that handles pretty darn well (not nearly as well as a Porsche, mind you), makes 500lbft of torque and gets 30mpg, which I'm into for less than $40k including tuning, summer wheels and tires. Fun when I want it to be, practical when I don't care. At some point I'll add a pricey sports car to the stable, but I want to "win the game" first.
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topper1296
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by topper1296 »

watchnerd wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:48 am
kenoryan wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:09 am
topper1296 wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:32 pm This thread makes my wondering if I should buy a used Omega watch (my dream watch) for $3-4K look pretty insignificant. :D

I haven't read all of the other responses, however I do agree with a few others that I have read that your retirement balance looks low.

I bought my wife an omega for her birthday 3 years ago. Paid $3500. Well, in October the Watch was starting to slow down so I sent it in to a Swiss Watch service center for battery change.
Well, the first error was buying a battery powered Swiss watch.
Yes, I would never buy a Swiss made watch that runs on a battery. Disclosure: have been wearing an automatic Longines for about 8 years now.
I'm just wanting to trade up to Omega.
timmy
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by timmy »

Pcarfan911 wrote: Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:33 pm Looking to spend about 100k on a new 911. Can i afford it? Would you do it? Not lookin no to buy outright but finance the car.

I am 39 years old.
Income about 250k per year. (Just for a big raise last year)
140k liquid savings
250k in retirement
400k equity in the home (currently worth around 900k)
401k maxed out
Ira maxed out

Monthly expenses for me including house is 5k per month.

Wife makes about 90k
we have a 10 month old son, college is on a 529.

only debt is 490k mortgage at 3.25% fixed. House will be paid off in 3 years. We only have 1 car which the wife pays for.
You make 250. With taxes, your take home is maybe 150 to 200, maybe. My question ... Do you want to get out of bed each and every Monday through Friday for the next 6 to 9 months to pay for a car (an object)? Because that's what you are signing up for.

Pass on this car. You can buy something nearly as fun for a 1/4 the price.
patholoraptor
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by patholoraptor »

I did this when I was in a similar financial situation, and regretted it. I had severe lust for an expensive sports car. I could not stop online shopping and watching YouTube videos about it. I bought it, it was great for a couple of months, then the new wore off. I was left with a relatively uncomfortable commuter vehicle and a large payment. It looked cool and was fun to drive, but it turned kind of sour. I was glad when I sold it.

I value the lesson I learned, but when I look back, I wish I had bought a Chevy Cruze instead and put the difference into my investments.

EDIT: OK, full disclosure in the interest of honesty. I did this twice. And had the same result, twice. I am not a fast learner, but I finally get it.
bgf
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by bgf »

patholoraptor wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:17 am I did this when I was in a similar financial situation, and regretted it. I had severe lust for an expensive sports car. I could not stop online shopping and watching YouTube videos about it. I bought it, it was great for a couple of months, then the new wore off. I was left with a relatively uncomfortable commuter vehicle and a large payment. It looked cool and was fun to drive, but it turned kind of sour. I was glad when I sold it.

I value the lesson I learned, but when I look back, I wish I had bought a Chevy Cruze instead and put the difference into my investments.

EDIT: OK, full disclosure in the interest of honesty. I did this twice. And had the same result, twice. I am not a fast learner, but I finally get it.
chevy cruze was the first car i ever bought for myself. had a manual transmission and leather... i loved that car. i could get 45mpg out of that bad boy. then it got totalled when a teenager plowed through a stop sign in his pickup truck...

RIP Cruze
“TE OCCIDERE POSSUNT SED TE EDERE NON POSSUNT NEFAS EST"
JuniorBH
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by JuniorBH »

I expect to find myself in a similar situation when I reach your age (I'm currently 32); solid net worth, combined income over $300K, etc.

At that point, I will absolutely buy myself a toy. However, after DD'ing an M3 for a number of years, I'll keep my current DD and be looking in the $40K range for a toy. Driving a Porsche daily sounds miserable; driving one on the weekends however is the dream.

My current thinking is also in line with a point you made; do I want to wait until I'm 60 and could potentially find that health and other issues lessen the enjoyment? I'd rather get it when I'm late 30's early 40's and have plenty of time to enjoy. And as other folks have pointed out, the 911's are holding value so if you wanted out in a 2-3 years, it's not a massive hit.
BruDude
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by BruDude »

JuniorBH wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:24 pm I expect to find myself in a similar situation when I reach your age (I'm currently 32); solid net worth, combined income over $300K, etc.

At that point, I will absolutely buy myself a toy. However, after DD'ing an M3 for a number of years, I'll keep my current DD and be looking in the $40K range for a toy. Driving a Porsche daily sounds miserable; driving one on the weekends however is the dream.

My current thinking is also in line with a point you made; do I want to wait until I'm 60 and could potentially find that health and other issues lessen the enjoyment? I'd rather get it when I'm late 30's early 40's and have plenty of time to enjoy. And as other folks have pointed out, the 911's are holding value so if you wanted out in a 2-3 years, it's not a massive hit.
911 makes a surprisingly good daily driver. My M3 always scraped on steep curbs and driveways. I’ve never scraped the 911. The suspension is also better. I bought a RAV4 as a beater DD to go with the 911, then quickly remembered I’m a car guy and needed more power. So I sold that and upgraded to an X3 35i which is awesome. Now I’m lusting after a cayenne turbo or Macan GTS, maybe a Trackhawk in a few years. It never ends.
chevca
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by chevca »

Pcarfan911 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:08 am
Grasshopper911 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:31 am I just picked up a 991.2 TTS earlier this year, my first Porsche as well. I daily drive it and absolutely love it. While not conservative from a Bogleheads perspective, it is very conservative from a supercar perspective. Most folks don’t look twice and it’ll run with any of the exotics out there.

I bought new (yes, too many hours on the configurator as well!), but have had zero regrets. We all work hard, May as well look forward to springing out of the bed each AM to drive to the office.

As someone else noted, your demographics match exactly that of the Porsche 911 audience. You can definitely afford it and won’t regret it later in life - in fact I anticipate it will be a memory you will cherish.

The more important question is ... which options!

Be sure to get the Sport Chrono, this is one item that will kill resale if it’s missed.
Great input thanks. I think hell is freezing over with all the go’s from the Bogleheads !
Really shows how many car guys have sat silently on the sidelines in so many past car threads. Who knew there was so much support here for those with a 'car problem'? :happy
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Pcarfan911
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by Pcarfan911 »

JuniorBH wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:24 pm I expect to find myself in a similar situation when I reach your age (I'm currently 32); solid net worth, combined income over $300K, etc.

At that point, I will absolutely buy myself a toy. However, after DD'ing an M3 for a number of years, I'll keep my current DD and be looking in the $40K range for a toy. Driving a Porsche daily sounds miserable; driving one on the weekends however is the dream.

My current thinking is also in line with a point you made; do I want to wait until I'm 60 and could potentially find that health and other issues lessen the enjoyment? I'd rather get it when I'm late 30's early 40's and have plenty of time to enjoy. And as other folks have pointed out, the 911's are holding value so if you wanted out in a 2-3 years, it's not a massive hit.
Agreed. Fortunately for me the 911 would be a weekend / night out with the wife car. Our DD is the wife's Audi Q5. We work in the same office building so we have shared a car for 3 (almost 4 years now). Not to mention this would keep the miles on the 911 down to less than 3k per year.
david99
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by david99 »

nv6425 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:17 am I just went through 2 years of the same machinations and bought a brand new 2017 C4S in October (1 month before my 40th birthday). My advice, buy the car, enjoy it and sell it if/when you're no longer excited about it. Sure you'll lose some money, but why do you earn it if not to enjoy it responsibly. I recognize that is not very Bogglehead of me, but as long as you're conscious that you need to get aggressive about saving to 'catch up' a bit, you'll be fine. Worst case, you buy the car, drive it for 3 years and sell it for $50K, that's a net $50K for your enjoyment.
It might be better to find a three year old car and let someone else take the depreciation hit.
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Pcarfan911
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by Pcarfan911 »

david99 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:04 pm
nv6425 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:17 am I just went through 2 years of the same machinations and bought a brand new 2017 C4S in October (1 month before my 40th birthday). My advice, buy the car, enjoy it and sell it if/when you're no longer excited about it. Sure you'll lose some money, but why do you earn it if not to enjoy it responsibly. I recognize that is not very Bogglehead of me, but as long as you're conscious that you need to get aggressive about saving to 'catch up' a bit, you'll be fine. Worst case, you buy the car, drive it for 3 years and sell it for $50K, that's a net $50K for your enjoyment.
It might be better to find a three year old car and let someone else take the depreciation hit.
Interesting video that backs up your point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuVUOB6D6-w
lws
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by lws »

Buy the car and enjoy it. Find your favorite back roads and have a ball.
investor997
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by investor997 »

Figured I'd chime in with a few thoughts...

I have a 2010 Carrera S (997.2), acquired in October, 2014. It replaced an E90 335i that I drove (and loved) for almost 8 years. I suspect like many of you, I bought it because I had an itch that desperately needed scratching, no matter how impractical or foolish it seemed. I drank a few too many glasses of wine one night while browsing Craigslist and the rest was history. Now that I've had it for a few years, I'll share a few thoughts.

Firstly, although I didn't plan for it, the car turned into a garage queen. I have a second vehicle ('04 Toyota 4Runner, my do-everything utilitarian off-roader) that I tend to drive much more often. One of the biggest reasons for not taking the Porsche is because I'm a frequent mountain biker and I need to get my bike to a ride/trailhead twice a week and sometimes more. Although I have a roof rack for the 911, it's more of an event to use. With the 4Runner, all I have to do is throw the bike in the back of the truck and I'm out the door. This wasn't an issue with the BMW because that car had a folding rear seat and it was super easy to carry a bike inside. Yes, the sight of a 911 with a mountain bike on the roof is pretty awesome, but it's also inconvenient, and it does present the non-zero risk of accidentally forgetting it's up there and pulling into the garage...

The other reason I don't drive the 911 that much is because right around the time I bought it, my job changed and my commute shrank to only 3 miles. The engine doesn't even warm up fully by the time I get to the office. I just can't bear to do that to the car too often so again, I drive the Toyota.

A few other things to note:
- The car DOES scrape the nose easily. It's low to the ground and it has a pretty big front overhang. Be careful.
- It rides rough and it's pretty noisy. It's not easy to carry a Bluetooth phone conversation at highway speeds. The E90 BMW was a much better daily driver.
- Get it on a twisty mountain road and you forget about everything else. It's AWESOME. It's also amazing on a track day - but these are infrequent events
- It's been pretty reliable. I had to replace a power mirror actuator motor ($100 DIY job) and one of the Xenon HID headlamps got a "lazy eye" when the auto leveling servo motor lost its mind, but that's been it. The headlight fixed itself.. crossing fingers. Other maintenance items can be DIY if you're handy. I changed the spark plugs and serpentine belt myself. Wasn't difficult.

I bought the car in 10/2014 when it was 4 years old and paid cash. Had I put the money into VTI instead and sat on it, that investment would have gone up close to 50% by now. In retrospect, when that opportunity cost is coupled with depreciation, these Porsche miles have turned out to be VERY expensive. Now that I've got it out of my system, I'm considering selling both the Porsche and the Toyota and going back to a single vehicle.
Last edited by investor997 on Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Leemiller
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by Leemiller »

The only people I know with six figure cars are multi-millionaires. Actually most of the multi millionaires I know don’t have six figure cars. I don’t think you can afford this at all. It is pure insanity to me. For what it’s worth our household income and net worth are higher. My splurge was a low 40s Mercedes which was less than my bonus - net, not gross.

Sounds like you’re doing it though. Hope you get something for your wife - perhaps a Birkin and 3 carat ring.
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gunn_show
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by gunn_show »

Pcarfan911 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:56 pm Agreed. Fortunately for me the 911 would be a weekend / night out with the wife car. Our DD is the wife's Audi Q5. We work in the same office building so we have shared a car for 3 (almost 4 years now). Not to mention this would keep the miles on the 911 down to less than 3k per year.
Man, you sure are mixing up / leaving out a lot of details between all your responses. First you were trying to justify your role / one year income bump because you're a VP and all your other senior leadership friends at the office also drive six figure cars to work, thus you would fit right in. But now you're saying this is only a weekend / night out car? The return on cost goes down severely. At least driving it every day maximizes the bang for the (expensive) buck. Driving it 250 miles a month? Meaning you have a 100k car sitting in the garage 98% of it's life... you are not rich enough for that.

You have a 10 month old right? How many nights out and weekends are you cruising out on with a baby in a Pcar?
Leemiller wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:51 pm The only people I know with six figure cars are multi-millionaires. Actually most of the multi millionaires I know don’t have six figure cars.
You're trying to live this lifestyle and your income is not even close to justifying. Congrats on one great year, stack it up a few years and go from there. Or, quit responding to the thread and just go buy the damn thing already. I truly don't get the point of the thread as it appears you made up your mind.

I'm also curious the additional insurance cost for having that thing sit in your garage. And oil changes. Premium gas. Your $1600/m is probably $2000/mo when you factor all that in.
"The best life hack of all is to just put the work in and never give up." Bas Rutten
stoptothink
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by stoptothink »

Leemiller wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:51 pm The only people I know with six figure cars are multi-millionaires. Actually most of the multi millionaires I know don’t have six figure cars. I don’t think you can afford this at all. It is pure insanity to me. For what it’s worth our household income and net worth are higher. My splurge was a low 40s Mercedes which was less than my bonus - net, not gross.

Sounds like you’re doing it though. Hope you get something for your wife - perhaps a Birkin and 3 carat ring.
Interesting enough, with the exception of my eldest brother's best friend who makes 7-figures annually (and just purchased a new NSX to sit next to his Tesla S 100d, real Porsche Speedster, and Range Rover in the garage), the only people I know with six-figure cars are not multi-millionaires. Sadly, I can count both my brothers and my best friend among this list, all of whom have financial situations far less impressive than the OP. Also, none of these guys are anywhere near what I would call "car guys". I have found that the few handfuls of individuals I know who are truly wealthy have little interest in that type of wealth signaling; it is often extremely important, almost all-consuming, in those who aren't.

My opinion: another one of those situations where by conventional standards the OP can afford it, but I don't think it is a good idea and wouldn't do it myself (as a "car guy")
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Pcarfan911
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by Pcarfan911 »

gunn_show wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:10 pm
Pcarfan911 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:56 pm Agreed. Fortunately for me the 911 would be a weekend / night out with the wife car. Our DD is the wife's Audi Q5. We work in the same office building so we have shared a car for 3 (almost 4 years now). Not to mention this would keep the miles on the 911 down to less than 3k per year.
Man, you sure are mixing up / leaving out a lot of details between all your responses. First you were trying to justify your role / one year income bump because you're a VP and all your other senior leadership friends at the office also drive six figure cars to work, thus you would fit right in. But now you're saying this is only a weekend / night out car? The return on cost goes down severely. At least driving it every day maximizes the bang for the (expensive) buck. Driving it 250 miles a month? Meaning you have a 100k car sitting in the garage 98% of it's life... you are not rich enough for that.

You have a 10 month old right? How many nights out and weekends are you cruising out on with a baby in a Pcar?
Leemiller wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:51 pm The only people I know with six figure cars are multi-millionaires. Actually most of the multi millionaires I know don’t have six figure cars.
You're trying to live this lifestyle and your income is not even close to justifying. Congrats on one great year, stack it up a few years and go from there. Or, quit responding to the thread and just go buy the damn thing already. I truly don't get the point of the thread as it appears you made up your mind.

I'm also curious the additional insurance cost for having that thing sit in your garage. And oil changes. Premium gas. Your $1600/m is probably $2000/mo when you factor all that in.
Actually my wife and i got out without the baby 1-2 times a week. The grandmas live down the street and we have about 2 weekly date nights.

Yes most of the exotics are not driven to work on a daily basis. In fact the parking lot is most expensive on Fridays. Sorry if i keep replying to the thread to keep the conversation going. I keep replying because questions keep coming up and comments that warrant clarification. Sorry I thought this was a discussion board. Didnt know it had Post Limits and Post Police on staff. Feel free to not read my posts any longer, I am sure both you and I will be fine. Thank you for your valuable input. (Insert sarcasm).
stoptothink
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by stoptothink »

Pcarfan911 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:56 pm
gunn_show wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:10 pm
Pcarfan911 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:56 pm Agreed. Fortunately for me the 911 would be a weekend / night out with the wife car. Our DD is the wife's Audi Q5. We work in the same office building so we have shared a car for 3 (almost 4 years now). Not to mention this would keep the miles on the 911 down to less than 3k per year.
Man, you sure are mixing up / leaving out a lot of details between all your responses. First you were trying to justify your role / one year income bump because you're a VP and all your other senior leadership friends at the office also drive six figure cars to work, thus you would fit right in. But now you're saying this is only a weekend / night out car? The return on cost goes down severely. At least driving it every day maximizes the bang for the (expensive) buck. Driving it 250 miles a month? Meaning you have a 100k car sitting in the garage 98% of it's life... you are not rich enough for that.

You have a 10 month old right? How many nights out and weekends are you cruising out on with a baby in a Pcar?
Leemiller wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:51 pm The only people I know with six figure cars are multi-millionaires. Actually most of the multi millionaires I know don’t have six figure cars.
You're trying to live this lifestyle and your income is not even close to justifying. Congrats on one great year, stack it up a few years and go from there. Or, quit responding to the thread and just go buy the damn thing already. I truly don't get the point of the thread as it appears you made up your mind.

I'm also curious the additional insurance cost for having that thing sit in your garage. And oil changes. Premium gas. Your $1600/m is probably $2000/mo when you factor all that in.
Yes most of the exotics are not driven to work on a daily basis. In fact the parking lot is most expensive on Fridays. Sorry if i keep replying to the thread to keep the conversation going. I thought this was a discussion board. Feel free to not read my posts any longer, I am sure both you and I will be fine. Thank you for your valuable input. (Insert sarcasm).
Gunn_show has an extremely valid point, one which further begs the question as to what is actionable about this thread. There is nothing that anybody can say that is going to talk you out of it, so just buy the car.
FireSekr
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by FireSekr »

I think you can afford it and should do it if you know it is the right car for you.

Just be sure you will have the opportunity to appreciate it. Sitting in traffic in LA in a 911 is no fun. Taking it out on the weekends in the canyons is a blast though. And if you live in a city thats less congested and can daily drive it, then you'll probably enjoy it.

Don't buy a garage queen though. Make sure to drive it and have fun!
Topic Author
Pcarfan911
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by Pcarfan911 »

stoptothink wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:01 pm
Pcarfan911 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:56 pm
gunn_show wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:10 pm
Pcarfan911 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:56 pm Agreed. Fortunately for me the 911 would be a weekend / night out with the wife car. Our DD is the wife's Audi Q5. We work in the same office building so we have shared a car for 3 (almost 4 years now). Not to mention this would keep the miles on the 911 down to less than 3k per year.
Man, you sure are mixing up / leaving out a lot of details between all your responses. First you were trying to justify your role / one year income bump because you're a VP and all your other senior leadership friends at the office also drive six figure cars to work, thus you would fit right in. But now you're saying this is only a weekend / night out car? The return on cost goes down severely. At least driving it every day maximizes the bang for the (expensive) buck. Driving it 250 miles a month? Meaning you have a 100k car sitting in the garage 98% of it's life... you are not rich enough for that.

You have a 10 month old right? How many nights out and weekends are you cruising out on with a baby in a Pcar?
Leemiller wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:51 pm The only people I know with six figure cars are multi-millionaires. Actually most of the multi millionaires I know don’t have six figure cars.
You're trying to live this lifestyle and your income is not even close to justifying. Congrats on one great year, stack it up a few years and go from there. Or, quit responding to the thread and just go buy the damn thing already. I truly don't get the point of the thread as it appears you made up your mind.

I'm also curious the additional insurance cost for having that thing sit in your garage. And oil changes. Premium gas. Your $1600/m is probably $2000/mo when you factor all that in.
Yes most of the exotics are not driven to work on a daily basis. In fact the parking lot is most expensive on Fridays. Sorry if i keep replying to the thread to keep the conversation going. I thought this was a discussion board. Feel free to not read my posts any longer, I am sure both you and I will be fine. Thank you for your valuable input. (Insert sarcasm).
Gunn_show has an extremely valid point, one which further begs the question as to what is actionable about this thread. There is nothing that anybody can say that is going to talk you out of it, so just buy the car.
I did not come on here to be swayed one way or the other. I am a big boy and make my own decisions. I merely wanted to get input and opinions from various sources, which i got. That in itself is the action you all are so concerned with. Nothing more, nothing less. Just looking for opinions from varying viewpoints.
Topic Author
Pcarfan911
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by Pcarfan911 »

ssquared87 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:07 pm I think you can afford it and should do it if you know it is the right car for you.

Just be sure you will have the opportunity to appreciate it. Sitting in traffic in LA in a 911 is no fun. Taking it out on the weekends in the canyons is a blast though. And if you live in a city thats less congested and can daily drive it, then you'll probably enjoy it.

Don't buy a garage queen though. Make sure to drive it and have fun!
:beer
harrychan
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by harrychan »

Pcarfan911 wrote: Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:33 pm Looking to spend about 100k on a new 911. Can i afford it? Would you do it? Not lookin no to buy outright but finance the car.

I am 39 years old.
Income about 250k per year. (Just for a big raise last year)
140k liquid savings
250k in retirement
400k equity in the home (currently worth around 900k)
401k maxed out
Ira maxed out

Monthly expenses for me including house is 5k per month.

Wife makes about 90k
we have a 10 month old son, college is on a 529.

only debt is 490k mortgage at 3.25% fixed. House will be paid off in 3 years. We only have 1 car which the wife pays for.

I'm almost in the exact same position as you in terms of age and income. We're about 1mm NW and have more in retirement and there is no way I would go out and buy a 6 figure car let alone a $50k car. Pay off your house then buy it in cash.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
Jimceezu
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by Jimceezu »

Why not save a bit of cash and just go for a Cayman GTS. Great car.

:happy
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Kenkat
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by Kenkat »

If you buy it, you should pull up to the Boglehead’s house, play some AC/DC or Motley Crue and smoke the tires...
Topic Author
Pcarfan911
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by Pcarfan911 »

Jimceezu wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:17 pm Why not save a bit of cash and just go for a Cayman GTS. Great car.

:happy
Going to drive one on Sunday !
TareNeko
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by TareNeko »

Okay big boy, what did you learn from all the input? Are you going to do exactly what you were contemplating? Or did you learn anything from all the advice given?

After you slowly told us all the facts, I still think it seems like a bad idea. You have good income, but not enough wealth yet. You’ll drive the car so little, it doesn’t make sense to tie all the money to it. Why not join a car club where you can rent various cars. Also, a 911 that is not taken to track is waste. And tracking a 911 is a huge expense.

PS: 911 is not an exotic.
Pcarfan911 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:09 pm I did not come on here to be swayed one way or the other. I am a big boy and make my own decisions. I merely wanted to get input and opinions from various sources, which i got. That in itself is the action you all are so concerned with. Nothing more, nothing less. Just looking for opinions from varying viewpoints.
MikeG62
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by MikeG62 »

Pcarfan911 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:09 pm
I did not come on here to be swayed one way or the other. I am a big boy and make my own decisions. I merely wanted to get input and opinions from various sources, which i got. That in itself is the action you all are so concerned with. Nothing more, nothing less. Just looking for opinions from varying viewpoints.
Pcarfan911,

Fellow car enthusiast here. I also owned a 1965 Backdraft Racing Cobra (purchased in 2006 and sold in 2009). Then bought a 1969 Z28 (which I had for a few years). Until this summer, my daily driver was a Mercedes AMG (while my DW was daily driving a Range Rover). So I get it.

Having said this, I have to agree with those who have said your financial assets relative to your income (as well as your age) are low. It’s not that you cannot afford this car, because you can. It is the best financial decision in your circumstance, I think not. I do applaud you by the way for sharing a car with your wife the last several years - a great way to save money.

Let me add that when I bought the Backdraft I was earning a lot more than you and your wife (combined) and had financial assets well into 7 figures (multiple 7 figures in taxable brokerage account alone). Same applied to when I bought the Mercedes AMG and RR. So just a different perspective.

I get your worry about working and saving and dying young (as your dad did - very sorry to hear about that by the way). However, what if the opposite happens - you live well into your 90’s?

While it appears you like your job, what if the situation at work changes (rich guy sells the company or company falls on hard times or new senior folks come in who are miserable to work for). This stuff does happen. Maybe you find yourself in your mid or late 40’s or even early or mid 50’s and hate going to work every day. Thinking back on how much you loved your 911 (when you had it) won’t be much consolation at that time nor will it provide you with options to improve your situation.

FWIW, we lived well below our means while I worked, but FAR from frugally. DW was SAHM and has not worked for income in over 25 years. I early retired two years ago (at 53) because I had a big job and we lived well below our means for a few decades. DW and I travel extensively (slept outside our home 45 days in 2017 and plan to do so ~60 days in 2018 - and the years which follow). I do not for a second regret passing up on an impulse purchase (and many I did pass up) given where we are now - we have never been happier. We have 5 trips already booked for the first 6 months of 2018 (two Caribbean trips and a ski trip out west in the first quarter alone) and will fill in with others as we get further into the year. Not a chance I’d rather I drove nicer cars along the way than doing what we are doing now or less of what we are doing now.

So it’s just another voice/perspective - this one from a fellow car enthusiast.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Last edited by MikeG62 on Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Real Knowledge Comes Only From Experience
Topic Author
Pcarfan911
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by Pcarfan911 »

Kenkat wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:28 pm If you buy it, you should pull up to the Boglehead’s house, play some AC/DC or Motley Crue and smoke the tires...
Now that is an idea !
stoptothink
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by stoptothink »

Pcarfan911 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:09 pm
stoptothink wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:01 pm
Pcarfan911 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:56 pm
gunn_show wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:10 pm
Pcarfan911 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:56 pm Agreed. Fortunately for me the 911 would be a weekend / night out with the wife car. Our DD is the wife's Audi Q5. We work in the same office building so we have shared a car for 3 (almost 4 years now). Not to mention this would keep the miles on the 911 down to less than 3k per year.
Man, you sure are mixing up / leaving out a lot of details between all your responses. First you were trying to justify your role / one year income bump because you're a VP and all your other senior leadership friends at the office also drive six figure cars to work, thus you would fit right in. But now you're saying this is only a weekend / night out car? The return on cost goes down severely. At least driving it every day maximizes the bang for the (expensive) buck. Driving it 250 miles a month? Meaning you have a 100k car sitting in the garage 98% of it's life... you are not rich enough for that.

You have a 10 month old right? How many nights out and weekends are you cruising out on with a baby in a Pcar?
Leemiller wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:51 pm The only people I know with six figure cars are multi-millionaires. Actually most of the multi millionaires I know don’t have six figure cars.
You're trying to live this lifestyle and your income is not even close to justifying. Congrats on one great year, stack it up a few years and go from there. Or, quit responding to the thread and just go buy the damn thing already. I truly don't get the point of the thread as it appears you made up your mind.

I'm also curious the additional insurance cost for having that thing sit in your garage. And oil changes. Premium gas. Your $1600/m is probably $2000/mo when you factor all that in.
Yes most of the exotics are not driven to work on a daily basis. In fact the parking lot is most expensive on Fridays. Sorry if i keep replying to the thread to keep the conversation going. I thought this was a discussion board. Feel free to not read my posts any longer, I am sure both you and I will be fine. Thank you for your valuable input. (Insert sarcasm).
Gunn_show has an extremely valid point, one which further begs the question as to what is actionable about this thread. There is nothing that anybody can say that is going to talk you out of it, so just buy the car.
I did not come on here to be swayed one way or the other. I am a big boy and make my own decisions. I merely wanted to get input and opinions from various sources, which i got. That in itself is the action you all are so concerned with. Nothing more, nothing less. Just looking for opinions from varying viewpoints.
Then again, for the umpteenth time, this is the very epitome of an unactionable thread. FWIW, I am definitely in the group that says buy it (with the caveat, that I wouldn't do it myself, as another "car guy" who is younger than you, with a much smaller salary but a greater networth).
JuniorBH
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by JuniorBH »

BruDude wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:30 pm

911 makes a surprisingly good daily driver. My M3 always scraped on steep curbs and driveways. I’ve never scraped the 911. The suspension is also better. I bought a RAV4 as a beater DD to go with the 911, then quickly remembered I’m a car guy and needed more power. So I sold that and upgraded to an X3 35i which is awesome. Now I’m lusting after a cayenne turbo or Macan GTS, maybe a Trackhawk in a few years. It never ends.
Couldn't agree more! I sold the M3 when my son was born and got into a Jeep SRT. However, while it was a great engine, everything else was Jeep quality and I've since moved into an X5 50i. So, I'd make sure you test drive the Trackhawk before buying one if you're interested; I was disappointed in the step down in quality after having various BMW's for 8+ years.
EnjoyIt
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by EnjoyIt »

Can you imagine the stress of parking the car at a restaurant worrying your entire meal that the guy next to you will scratch 1/5 of your net worth. The stress of owning expensive things can be insane? What about driving the car after you just cleaned it and being forced to drive over a puddle? Don't allow your possessions to own you.

The 3 biggest financial mistakes people make
1) Too much house
2) Too much car
3) Divorce.

Just some simple math I did a few years back which may be a little different today but should show a point.
What is the difference between leasing a 3 series for him and a Q5 for her or their equivalent over 30 years vs buying a used Lexus/Acura and holding it for 10 years? When I did the math it came out to $750k if invested in a taxable account for the same 30 years.

Here is another thought. How much is this Porsche going to cost you vs buying something for $50k?
$50k invested today for the next 30 years at 5% real return will be worth $215K real. Probably more than that considering the higher insurance and higher cost upkeep. This could be the difference of needing to work one more year prior to retiring. Also if you buy a $100k car now, will the next car have to be better and therefor more expensive? This decision over your lifetime can cost you well over $1 Million maybe more if you continue this trend till you are in your 60s.

I see nothing wrong with enjoying your money. But you just don't have the wealth to make such an expensive purchase.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418
jimbojones
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by jimbojones »

EnjoyIt wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:25 pm

The 3 biggest financial mistakes people make
1) Too much house
2) Too much car
3) Divorce
Haha- minor quibble about #3: marrying the wrong person might be a better description. If you do, divorce may be the lesser of two evils. :sharebeer
Enzo IX
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by Enzo IX »

Congrats, Hope you and your family have the greatest of memories to retain from your years of driving the Porsche.

The one thing that I like about those boxer motors is the powerband. Mine hits about 3,000 rpm and just pulls all the way to redline, there is no flatspot. Then you shift and it happens all over again with a big grin on my face.

It may not make the best investment decision on terminal net worth but all of us need to realize that we are just renting space here on earth and we really don't know how much time we have. I'm sure the doctors on this board can vouch for how they see lives forever change because of an event that unfortunately happened.

The poster knew he was gonna get some of these negative responses from his original question, and I think he was partially trolling and getting a chuckle from reading them. His mind was made up before he sent the original post.

I myself would like to get another upper end watch, in the watch world it isn't even considered high end, a Roxex GMT Batman black and blue. Due to the response Petrocelli got for asking if he should buy a 5,000 watch. I won't even ask if I can afford a 10,000 watch.

I'm not advocating being foolish with one's money, and one needs to save for the future for opportunity and security, but one needs to also not be a McScrooge and count their stack of bitcoins every night.
Coachrhino11
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by Coachrhino11 »

OP, you make a good bit more than we do and congrats. I understand your frustration and probably surprise. I was told I couldn’t afford a freakin Miata by some on this forum, wow. We only earn 130k, no debt outside mortgage and taxes. Contribute to retirement accounts. You have damn good amount saved for age, many here are literally consumed with holding onto money and growing mold, lol. Yeah...rip me Bogleheads, couldn’t care less, you know who you are. You are no better because you have more greenbacks. I’m not saying drop 100k on car, but at same time you know if you can sleep at night and wake up feeling good. Many here have been great, some are miserable it seems. Millions of assets and drive boring Camry, can’t imagine. I have Uncle like that and he’s known as cheap a** to all family and friends. Can’t take it with you people.
gator15
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by gator15 »

EnjoyIt wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:25 pm Can you imagine the stress of parking the car at a restaurant worrying your entire meal that the guy next to you will scratch 1/5 of your net worth. The stress of owning expensive things can be insane? What about driving the car after you just cleaned it and being forced to drive over a puddle? Don't allow your possessions to own you.

This is a fair point. As someone who's owned multiple sports cars over the years, one of the reasons I always sold my car is no one will respect your car as much as you do. I was tired of the stress associated with parking my car at stores, restaurants etc. I went out of my way to park my sports car at far distances from stores thinking no one would dare park next to me because of the long walk to the store. I was wrong. Two sports cars in immaculate condition were damaged while I wasn't around. It was infuriating as the people who did it never had the decency to own up to their mistake. While purchasing a 911 is a dream of mine, I'm not sure I will follow through because of previous experiences. The Porsche I covet is $80k plus, but I can't imagine letting someone else potentially ruin that experience for me due to their carelessness. Everytime you drive and park that $100k Porsche at a location other than your garage, it's susceptible to dings, scratches, dents. Personally, I don't want to deal with this anymore. I wish you the best.
staythecourse
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by staythecourse »

I would like the mods to intervene and explain to me how this is an actionable thread? Many a thread has been closed that was more actionable than this. Maybe I am not understanding what "actionable" means. He has said he has already decided to do x and is just gathering opinions which at this point I think have been aired out from every angle.

Good luck
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle
sambb
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by sambb »

Pcarfan911 wrote: Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:32 pm I have never met anyone that has regretted buying a Porsche, just those that wish they would have done it sooner.
YES agree with this.
sambb
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by sambb »

sambb wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:33 pm
Pcarfan911 wrote: Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:32 pm I have never met anyone that has regretted buying a Porsche, just those that wish they would have done it sooner.
YES agree with this. And this thread is just as actionable as the watch thread.
Barefoot
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by Barefoot »

I have a few thoughts.

OP, did you buy your Beemers and Cobra new or used? I've bought all my fun cars used, but I have friends that bought their's new. Depends on what you want.

If you've had similar cars in the past, you know all about parking lot worries and the like.

I don't know the new P-car market, but one of my friends that bought a new one negotiated hard a (few years ago) and paid close to 15% below list. Don't fall in love unless the car is exactly what you want.

As far as being actionable, this forum is full of people asking for opinions on what to do with their money. This is just another one.
stoptothink
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by stoptothink »

Barefoot wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:45 pmAs far as being actionable, this forum is full of people asking for opinions on what to do with their money. This is just another one.
OP has clearly stated, several times, that their mind is made up and nothing is going to change it, but that they just wanted other people's opinions. Why? My only guess is that because arguing is amusing.
Topic Author
Pcarfan911
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by Pcarfan911 »

stoptothink wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:51 pm
Barefoot wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:45 pmAs far as being actionable, this forum is full of people asking for opinions on what to do with their money. This is just another one.
OP has clearly stated, several times, that their mind is made up and nothing is going to change it, but that they just wanted other people's opinions. Why? My only guess is that because arguing is amusing.
Please point out 1 post where I have said I am going to buy the car any time soon.

Please point out 1 post where I am arguing with anyone.

Mods please feel free to close this thread if it is not actionable enough. Clearly open discussion and back and forth banter is frowned upon by some members on this forum which i feel is ridiculous.
All joking aside many of you need to lighten up and enjoy life a bit more. Thank you for everyone that offered their input. My first and probably last venture into the bogleheads forums clearly offered some valuable insight but also showed me exactly the type of person I do not want to be like as I age. Best of luck to all! Happy New Year ! Thanks again for taking the time to offer your input in this clearly non-actionable waste of a thread.
Last edited by Pcarfan911 on Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bb
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Re: Another should i buy my dream porsche thread...

Post by bb »

Coachrhino11 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:02 pm drive boring Camry, can’t imagine.
Hey - I really like my camry!
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