Lively HSA offers first dollar investing

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grp2c
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by grp2c »

GridironGems wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:43 pm What are you guys going to put your HSA money in TD Ameritrade into?

iShares Core S&P Total U.S. Stock Market ETF - ITOT looks like it could be an option at 0.03% ER
I'll probably just buy Vanguard Total World Stock ETF and put my bond allocations elsewhere. I figure once a year $6.95 commission isn't so bad. I had to find another hsa provider after alliant closed their hsa service. Had I known TD ameritrade was getting rid of vanguard funds, might have gone with Saturna. I do like that Lively is all online with no paper forms.
Aesop
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Aesop »

I just did an in kind transfer from HSA Bank to Lively...

Monday - Signed up.

Tuesday - Received micro deposits in checking account, confirmed amounts (done via email at this time) and signed up for an investment account which was immediately activated. Filled out TD Ameritrade in kind transfer form (in California and don't want to pay state tax on gains... still hopeful that eventually the legislature will not kill the annual bill to conform in committee) and uploaded it securely (they currently use Virtru for this).

Wednesday - Holdings moved in kind from old HSA Bank TD Ameritrade account to new Lively TD Ameritrade account.

Thursday - TD Ameritrade cash balance moved (this probably would have happened Wednesday as well but they waited a day for some trades to settle). Electronically signed (they use Hello Sign) the transfer form to move the remaining 5k sitting in the old HSA Bank account and close the account. I figure this part will take a bit longer since I have to wait for HSA Bank to send the funds to Choice Financial (the bank Lively uses for cash).

I have to say that I am very impressed with their responsiveness and how quickly and painlessly everything has been done so far. I didn't even have to explain anything twice (they knew exactly what I wanted done and why). I really hope they can keep it up as they grow (and keep their fees low of course).
GridironGems
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by GridironGems »

I am in the process of doing a Trustee to Trustee transfer from Optum to Lively. Lively told me Optum is slow with this and could be 2-6 weeks. Sounds ridiculous to me
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jhfenton
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

Aesop wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:03 am I just did an in kind transfer from HSA Bank to Lively...
Thanks for sharing. It's very encouraging to see how easy it is to move between two HSA providers that use TD Ameritrade as a brokerage platform.
GridironGems wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:37 pm I am in the process of doing a Trustee to Trustee transfer from Optum to Lively. Lively told me Optum is slow with this and could be 2-6 weeks. Sounds ridiculous to me
Fifth-Third Bank (my employer-sponsored HSA provider) told Lively that it would be 30-60 days for a trustee-to-trustee transfer. Instead, Fifth-Third received the transfer form from Lively on Friday, mailed the check to California on Tuesday--Columbus Day Monday was a bank holiday--and Lively credited it the following Monday. I transferred it to TD Ameritrade on Tuesday and invested it on Wednesday.

So it might not take that long. :sharebeer
Callithump
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Callithump »

themicah wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:25 pm Regarding the TDAM free ETF list changes...

For those who do long-term dollar cost averaging in their HSA, TDAM also lets you set up a recurring purchase of Vanguard mutual funds in these self-directed investment accounts. I think you may need to pay a commission ($25 in my Elements CU-linked TDAM self-directed HSA account) to establish an initial position in the mutual fund, but once you have some shares in a fund, you can set up and make changes to your recurring investments in that fund without any additional commission (and you may be able to avoid the commission altogether if you set up the recurring transaction from the very beginning--I'm not sure about that).

You can also get Vanguard Admiral Shares through TDAM even if you can't find the ticker on their website. I don't recall the details as it was a few years ago that I set it up, but I think you have to call and ask. They may also be able to waive minimum investment requirements for Admiral Shares (again, I don't recall the details). Come to think of it, I should ask if they'll convert me to Institutional Shares without a minimum balance, too...

Emailed tda about this.

It’s called a systematic transaction.

You basically establish an initial position in a mutual fund like vtsax then on a regular basis weekly, monthly, quarterly etc. they sweep your investable cash into the fund.

They can do it on a fixed dollar amount or on a % basis.

You can set it up by calling or filling out a form.

You still have to pay $25 to buy the initial position and $25 any time you sell though.

I’ll probably stick with the spdr russel 3000 index fund for the time being though.

I also asked lively and there’s not a way for them to do recurring trustee to trustee transfers online right now.

But I asked, and they’ve set it up to ask how much I want transferred once a month, and they generate a trustee to trustee transfer form for me to sign to do a transfer from my employer sponsored hsa once a month.

At least in my case my employer plan doesn’t charge a fee for trustee to trustee transfers, just closure so I’ll leave a dollar or two in it each month.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by yoshimi »

Aesop wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:03 am I just did an in kind transfer from HSA Bank to Lively...
Did this leave you with just the $25 HSA Bank closing fee then? I ended up with both a HSA Bank (individual) and an Optum (work) HSA, and this might be the ticket for combining the two into something simpler with lower fees than HSA Bank for fully invested funds. HSA Bank has the account closing fee; Optum has a $20 rollover/transfer fee, and I'm trying to figure out if I can get around it.
Bacchus01
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Bacchus01 »

If you’ve got $40K in HSA funds, never planning to withdraw them until much later, and just want to invest once a year in a broad find like Total Stock Market, which account is the best?
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Thrifty Femme
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Thrifty Femme »

Bacchus01 wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:44 pm If you’ve got $40K in HSA funds, never planning to withdraw them until much later, and just want to invest once a year in a broad find like Total Stock Market, which account is the best?
Saturna at $24.95/year if you can deal with the mountain of paper work for the application. Do a search for best HSA on this forum.
Aesop
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Aesop »

yoshimi wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:32 am
Aesop wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:03 am I just did an in kind transfer from HSA Bank to Lively...
Did this leave you with just the $25 HSA Bank closing fee then? I ended up with both a HSA Bank (individual) and an Optum (work) HSA, and this might be the ticket for combining the two into something simpler with lower fees than HSA Bank for fully invested funds. HSA Bank has the account closing fee; Optum has a $20 rollover/transfer fee, and I'm trying to figure out if I can get around it.
Still waiting for HSA Bank to complete the final transfer and close the account (13 days now), but I am sure they will take the $25 closing fee out first.
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jhfenton
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

Bacchus01 wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:44 pm If you’ve got $40K in HSA funds, never planning to withdraw them until much later, and just want to invest once a year in a broad find like Total Stock Market, which account is the best?
Saturna or Lively. I think Lively's customer service, more flexible investing options, and complete lack of paperwork are worth $5.05 per year.

At $5.05/year, the time to figure out and fill out all the Saturna forms is worth a couple decades of fees.
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jhfenton
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

Callithump wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:47 pm I also asked lively and there’s not a way for them to do recurring trustee to trustee transfers online right now.

But I asked, and they’ve set it up to ask how much I want transferred once a month, and they generate a trustee to trustee transfer form for me to sign to do a transfer from my employer sponsored hsa once a month.

At least in my case my employer plan doesn’t charge a fee for trustee to trustee transfers, just closure so I’ll leave a dollar or two in it each month.
I'm in the same boat. I think I'm going to do them every 3-4 months ($1,500-2,000). I would like to automate them or do them monthly, but I don't want to waste my time or Lively's transferring $500 at a time. (Plus my employer HSA trustee might decide to start charging a fee for them, since they have to process and mail a check each time.)
monsterid
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by monsterid »

So full disclosure, the CEO of this company spoke to me about an investment (I angel invest in technology companies). I want to be respectful and not reveal any information he gave me in confidence about the company or the economics. I'll leave it just by saying everything I've seen on his website and posted here is consistent with the information I've otherwise seen. I was impressed by him and this product. I'm going to open a HSA and see how we go.
nosivol
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by nosivol »

jhfenton wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:37 pm
Fifth-Third Bank (my employer-sponsored HSA provider) told Lively that it would be 30-60 days for a trustee-to-trustee transfer. Instead, Fifth-Third received the transfer form from Lively on Friday, mailed the check to California on Tuesday--Columbus Day Monday was a bank holiday--and Lively credited it the following Monday. I transferred it to TD Ameritrade on Tuesday and invested it on Wednesday.
Did you have to liquidate your current investments in Fifth Third? I can't seem to find how to sell the investments and just have the money in the cash side of the HSA. Any guidance?
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by asif408 »

yoshimi wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:32 am
Aesop wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:03 am I just did an in kind transfer from HSA Bank to Lively...
Did this leave you with just the $25 HSA Bank closing fee then? I ended up with both a HSA Bank (individual) and an Optum (work) HSA, and this might be the ticket for combining the two into something simpler with lower fees than HSA Bank for fully invested funds. HSA Bank has the account closing fee; Optum has a $20 rollover/transfer fee, and I'm trying to figure out if I can get around it.
I actually did the in kind transfer from HSA Bank to Lively this week. I had $15 or $20 left in the cash account at HSA Bank so when I called to close the HSA Bank account they just used what was left to cover the closing fee and said they would waive the rest. A nice gesture on their part. YMMV.
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jhfenton
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

nosivol wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:42 am
jhfenton wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:37 pm
Fifth-Third Bank (my employer-sponsored HSA provider) told Lively that it would be 30-60 days for a trustee-to-trustee transfer. Instead, Fifth-Third received the transfer form from Lively on Friday, mailed the check to California on Tuesday--Columbus Day Monday was a bank holiday--and Lively credited it the following Monday. I transferred it to TD Ameritrade on Tuesday and invested it on Wednesday.
Did you have to liquidate your current investments in Fifth Third? I can't seem to find how to sell the investments and just have the money in the cash side of the HSA. Any guidance?
I did have to liquidate my former investments in Fifth-Third. They don't do any in-kind transfers or even electronic transfers of cash to other custodians. $43K of my $45K was invested, all in one Vanguard equity fund, so when I liquidated that position, I moved ~$43K elsewhere from bonds to equities. I rebalanced back a week and a half later. (I received a frequent trading alert in my 401(k) for making a round-trip exchange in less than 30 days :D --as I knew I would--but one such round-trip has no consequences.)

The Fifth-Third website was not clear at all, but to transfer the money back from the investing side, I changed my sweep threshold from the minimum $2,000 to $100,000. Since my account had roughly $45K, that means none should be invested. That triggered the sale of my investment holdings the next day. A couple days later, the cash was back in the bank side.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Bacchus01 »

Bacchus01 wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:44 pm If you’ve got $40K in HSA funds, never planning to withdraw them until much later, and just want to invest once a year in a broad find like Total Stock Market, which account is the best?
I did not realize that my current HSA provider (Optum) had changed a lot of their rates with my current employer, so I've decided to stick with them.

Currently, as long as you leave $2K in the cash balance account, they now let you do investments for just $3/month. So, for what little i lose on the $2K, plus the $6/year increase in cost over Lively, plus the $20 fee that Optum charges to transfer funds....I'm staying put.

They also will automatically invest all new contributions in $100 increments over the $2K cash balance level. I should have been paying better attention.
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tfb
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by tfb »

jhfenton wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:39 am
Bacchus01 wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:44 pm If you’ve got $40K in HSA funds, never planning to withdraw them until much later, and just want to invest once a year in a broad find like Total Stock Market, which account is the best?
Saturna or Lively. I think Lively's customer service, more flexible investing options, and complete lack of paperwork are worth $5.05 per year.

At $5.05/year, the time to figure out and fill out all the Saturna forms is worth a couple decades of fees.
For a true apples to apples comparison:

Vanguard fund with dividend reinvestment: Saturna $25/year, Lively $80/year
Vanguard ETF with dividend reinvestment: Saturna $19/year, Lively $37/year

Saturna's cost is half or less than half of Lively's cost. Paper application is only one-time. It's not that bad.
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Nyc10036
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Nyc10036 »

tfb wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:43 am For a true apples to apples comparison:

Vanguard fund with dividend reinvestment: Saturna $25/year, Lively $80/year
Vanguard ETF with dividend reinvestment: Saturna $19/year, Lively $37/year

Saturna's cost is half or less than half of Lively's cost. Paper application is only one-time. It's not that bad.
How are you calculating those fees?
Isn't Lively $30/year?
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by aristotelian »

Nyc10036 wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:56 am How are you calculating those fees?
Isn't Lively $30/year?
I think he is assuming transaction fees on Vanguard funds because TD is dropping them from their free ETF list. Of course, you can easily find a comparable iShares or State Street fund within .02% ER so I don't think that is really an apples to apples comparison. Of course, if TD's list bothers you and your only acceptable funds are Vanguard, then you should not go with Lively, obviously.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

tfb wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:43 am For a true apples to apples comparison:

Vanguard fund with dividend reinvestment: Saturna $25/year, Lively $80/year
Vanguard ETF with dividend reinvestment: Saturna $19/year, Lively $37/year

Saturna's cost is half or less than half of Lively's cost. Paper application is only one-time. It's not that bad.
That's not a reasonable comparison. If you're at TD Ameritrade at this point, you're probably not going to be using Vanguard ETFs for new investments. You're probably going to use one of the SPDR portfolio funds. In an HSA (a tax-advantaged account), I really couldn't care less--OK, maybe a tad less--about using SPEM (at 11 bp) instead of VWO (at 14 bp).

Not to mention, I sent a message in my TD Ameritrade account, asking for and receiving three free trades. So I actually invested my initial lump sum in another EM fund entirely. In the meanwhile, I'll accumulate in SPEM quarterly and ask for another free trade in a year to allow me to consolidate.

Also, if you are determined to use Vanguard mutual funds, you can make one initial purchase, and then set up free periodic investments on whatever schedule you want. So the mutual fund commission is only on the original purchase (and probably the eventual sale), not every year. (But I wouldn't use Vanguard mutual funds, or any mutual funds, at TD Ameritrade at this point.)

And the Saturna paperwork is truly absurd. I can only assume that all of their processes are that primitive and time-consuming and their customer service that poor. The time necessary to figure out the multiple separate forms, complete them, find and attach a canceled check (!), mail it (!), etc., is probably worth a decade of fees. And then there's their fee schedule. $1 to reinvest dividends. (Seriously?) $75 account transfer out fee. I actually printed out the forms twice in the previous two years and decided each time that it wasn't worth the hassle versus the status quo at my employer-sponsored plan.

I was ultimately won over by Lively's one-line fee schedule, instant online application, and email customer service response times measured in minutes (plus my employer-sponsored HSA doubled its asset-based fee).

But for all that, Saturna would still be my second choice, which is a sad commentary on the HSA industry. :beer
Nyc10036
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Nyc10036 »

What about SelectAccount?
They are my second choice behind Lively.
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Thrifty Femme
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Thrifty Femme »

Does TDA's DRIP not apply to Vanguard ETFs after they leave the commission free list?
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jhfenton
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

Thrifty Femme wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:17 pm Does TDA's DRIP not apply to Vanguard ETFs after they leave the commission free list?
All dividend reinvestments are free at TD Ameritrade, for mutual funds and for ETFs. (Although if you buy a low asset, low volume ETF, it may not be eligible for dividend at all.)
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jhfenton
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

Nyc10036 wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:29 pm What about SelectAccount?
They are my second choice behind Lively.
SelectAccount would certainly be in the running: $30/year + $1,000 kept in cash = Schwab brokerage (assuming you have over $10K in the account in all). I would impute a 2.4% ($24) per year charge to the $1,000 cash since it would only earn 0.1% per year and it would be displacing $1,000 in a bond fund elsewhere earning 2-3%. So that's $54/year for Schwab brokerage flexibility.

To be fair, if I were making a detailed comparison, I wouldn't consider Saturna to have a $19/year cost either. If I used Saturna, to avoid additional $15 commissions, I would accumulate more cash in my employer HSA earning next to nothing (or ponying up $2/month + 20 bp/year to invest the small amounts there). On average, over the course of a year, I would have half a year's contribution ($3,450 next year) in cash. At 2.25% imputed charge--my employer HSA pays 0.25% on cash--that's $77.63. (So it might be worth doing two transfers per year.)

By comparison, with Lively (or with SelectAccount), I can make monthly transfers if I want. I plan to do quarterly. If I do quarterly transfers, my average cash balance would be around $862.50, leading to $19.41 in lost dividends imputed to SelectAccount and Lively.

So, I have the following:

Lively = $30* + $19.41= $49.41
SelectAccount = $30 + $24 + $19.41 = $73.41
Saturna (1x/yr) = $15 + $4 + $77.63 = $96.63 (+ $75 account closure fee eventually)
Saturan (2x/yr) = $15 + $15 + $4 + $38.81 = $72.81 (+ $75 account closure fee eventually)

So, you're right. I would probably pick SelectAccount.

* Lively takes the fee from outside the HSA,instead of taking precious tax-advantaged HSA money, so I should discount this $30.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan »

There's one more option: HSA Authority if you can live with mutual funds. The annual fee at the HSA Authority is $36 and it has a bunch of low cost Vanguard mutual funds. It supports first dollar investing too (but you do need $1000 to establish the investment account).
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by LifeIsGood »

I'm in the process of doing a transfer to Lively. They want a copy of my drivers license to verify my identity. I'm a bit uncomfortable with this.
Has anyone else ran into a request like this?
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jhfenton
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

LifeIsGood wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:33 am I'm in the process of doing a transfer to Lively. They want a copy of my drivers license to verify my identity. I'm a bit uncomfortable with this.
Has anyone else ran into a request like this?
Lively did not request that from me. I completed everything online, including digitally signing my transfer request form.

If you haven't already spoken to them on the phone, I'd call them just to verify the validity of the request.

Once I verified the request, I'd provide a copy of my driver license. Something probably didn't verify fully when you completed the online application.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan »

LifeIsGood wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:33 am I'm in the process of doing a transfer to Lively. They want a copy of my drivers license to verify my identity. I'm a bit uncomfortable with this.
Has anyone else ran into a request like this?
Did you freeze your credit information?
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LifeIsGood
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by LifeIsGood »

indexfundfan wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:00 am
LifeIsGood wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:33 am I'm in the process of doing a transfer to Lively. They want a copy of my drivers license to verify my identity. I'm a bit uncomfortable with this.
Has anyone else ran into a request like this?

Did you freeze your credit information?
No, my credit is unfrozen.
desiderium
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by desiderium »

LifeIsGood wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:04 am
indexfundfan wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:00 am
LifeIsGood wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:33 am I'm in the process of doing a transfer to Lively. They want a copy of my drivers license to verify my identity. I'm a bit uncomfortable with this.
Has anyone else ran into a request like this?

Did you freeze your credit information?
No, my credit is unfrozen.
The identification requirement comes from the USA patriot act if I am not mistaken, common for bank and brokerage accounts.
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jhfenton
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

indexfundfan wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:00 am
LifeIsGood wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:33 am I'm in the process of doing a transfer to Lively. They want a copy of my drivers license to verify my identity. I'm a bit uncomfortable with this.
Has anyone else ran into a request like this?
Did you freeze your credit information?
Mine is frozen at the Big 3, Innovis, and Chexsystems, and I didn't get a request for a driver license.
desiderium wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:14 am The identification requirement comes from the USA patriot act if I am not mistaken, common for bank and brokerage accounts.
It does. Still, a request for a driver license is unusual, but not unheard of.

In retrospect, I'm not sure why mine sailed through with everything frozen.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Jaded-Fan »

indexfundfan wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:00 pm There's one more option: HSA Authority if you can live with mutual funds. The annual fee at the HSA Authority is $36 and it has a bunch of low cost Vanguard mutual funds. It supports first dollar investing too (but you do need $1000 to establish the investment account).
I just signed up for HSA Authority this past month.

Very easy, it is operated by Old National Bank of Indiana.

They set up the HSA accounts for Indiana's Government Workers I was told, but let anyone join. I did have to surpass $1,000 in Old National Bank before they would transfer to HSA Authority, which they just did with several thousand dollars a few minutes ago. There is no need to keep a dime in the bank after., however you have to call to transfer each month. They are working on automating that as an option I am told.

The HSA choices are run through Charles Schwab, and include about 20 or so of the most popular Vanguard accounts. I have all of mine in the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index fund as an example. $15 per $10,000 a year until you get admiral shares when it drops to approximately $4 a year per $10,000.

If you switch to online statements the $3 a month is all you pay. That is it.

One more thing to keep in mind, the IRS has no lookback limit for reimbursements. So you could keep the receipts for 30 years for copays and the like, let the money grow tax free, then reimburse yourself thousands of dollars decades later. True with every HSA of course. But it makes one like HSA Authority which allows you to keep the funds for a long time in a low cost stock market fund particularly attractive.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan »

jhfenton wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:21 am In retrospect, I'm not sure why mine sailed through with everything frozen.
Could be that Lively added new measures for identity check. It's not unusual for things to change quickly at startups.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

indexfundfan wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:37 pm
jhfenton wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:21 am In retrospect, I'm not sure why mine sailed through with everything frozen.
Could be that Lively added new measures for identity check. It's not unusual for things to change quickly at startups.
That's certainly possible. :beer The freeze didn't even cross my mind at the time.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by b4nash »

8.6 30-Day Right to Opt Out. You have the right to opt out of the provisions of this Arbitration Agreement by sending a timely written notice of your decision to opt out to the following address: Lively, Inc. c/o/ Legal, 188 King St., #502, St., San Francisco, CA 94107, support@livelyme.com within 30 days after first becoming subject to this Arbitration Agreement. Your notice must include your name and address, your username (if any), the email address you used to set up your Account (if you have one), and a clear statement that you want to opt out of this Arbitration Agreement. If you opt out of this Arbitration Agreement, all other parts of these Terms will continue to apply to you. Opting out of this Arbitration Agreement has no effect on any other arbitration agreements that you may currently have with us, or may enter into in the future with us.
Anyone else opt out of arbitration?

Also of interest regarding SPTM (similar changes to SPLG and SPSM):
Prior to 11/16/2017, the Fund sought to track the Russell 3000® Index. Effective 11/16/2017, the Fund seeks to track the SSGA Total Stock Market Index. The inception of the SSGA Total Stock Market Index was 10/12/2017.
https://us.spdrs.com/en/etf/spdr-portfo ... t-ETF-SPTM
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jhfenton
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

b4nash wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:29 am
8.6 30-Day Right to Opt Out. You have the right to opt out of the provisions of this Arbitration Agreement by sending a timely written notice of your decision to opt out to the following address: Lively, Inc. c/o/ Legal, 188 King St., #502, St., San Francisco, CA 94107, support@livelyme.com within 30 days after first becoming subject to this Arbitration Agreement. Your notice must include your name and address, your username (if any), the email address you used to set up your Account (if you have one), and a clear statement that you want to opt out of this Arbitration Agreement. If you opt out of this Arbitration Agreement, all other parts of these Terms will continue to apply to you. Opting out of this Arbitration Agreement has no effect on any other arbitration agreements that you may currently have with us, or may enter into in the future with us.
Anyone else opt out of arbitration?
Where do you find that language? It is not in my Lively HSA agreement nor my Choice Financial Terms and Conditions.

I generally don't have any issues with arbitration agreements, but the specifics matter, and I didn't recall reading that.
b4nash
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by b4nash »

jhfenton wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:53 pm Where do you find that language? It is not in my Lively HSA agreement nor my Choice Financial Terms and Conditions.

I generally don't have any issues with arbitration agreements, but the specifics matter, and I didn't recall reading that.
Terms & Conditions found on the Sign Up page: https://livelyme.com/terms-and-conditions/
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jhfenton
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

b4nash wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:56 pm
jhfenton wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:53 pm Where do you find that language? It is not in my Lively HSA agreement nor my Choice Financial Terms and Conditions.

I generally don't have any issues with arbitration agreements, but the specifics matter, and I didn't recall reading that.
Terms & Conditions found on the Sign Up page: https://livelyme.com/terms-and-conditions/
Thanks. They're just the Website Terms and Conditions, so I did not. I don't recall even seeing those when I signed up.

And it's actually a rather narrow clause. It allows for small claims court on an individual basis:
8.1. Applicability of Arbitration Agreement. You agree that any dispute between you and us relating in any way to the Site or these Terms, will be resolved by binding arbitration, rather than in court, except that (1) you may assert claims in small claims court if your claims qualify, so long as the matter remains in such court and advances only on an individual (non-class, non-representative) basis; and (2) you or Lively may seek equitable relief in court for infringement or other misuse of intellectual property rights (such as trademarks, trade dress, domain names, trade secrets, copyrights, and patents).
The main Lively HSA Agreement is a separate agreement, and I do not believe it has an arbitration provision.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by b4nash »

indexfundfan wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:37 pm
jhfenton wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:21 am In retrospect, I'm not sure why mine sailed through with everything frozen.
Could be that Lively added new measures for identity check. It's not unusual for things to change quickly at startups.
FYI - Opened my account today and the only identity check was a few demographic questions. All 3 credit files frozen.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

b4nash wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:13 pm
indexfundfan wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:37 pm
jhfenton wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:21 am In retrospect, I'm not sure why mine sailed through with everything frozen.
Could be that Lively added new measures for identity check. It's not unusual for things to change quickly at startups.
FYI - Opened my account today and the only identity check was a few demographic questions. All 3 credit files frozen.
That sounds like my experience a month ago. :beer
Aesop
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Aesop »

Aesop wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:30 am Still waiting for HSA Bank to complete the final transfer and close the account (13 days now)...
Its been a month since the transfer out and close account form was submitted to HSA Bank and they have yet to do it. I contacted them a week and a half ago and they confirmed that they received the form but are still holding my cash balance.
92irish
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by 92irish »

Aesop:

Let us know how HSA Bank handles your cash balance - I'm curious. I think they have a $25 account closure fee. I have HSA Bank (for now).

I'm considering just having everything in TD Ameritrade and only leaving $25 bucks at HSA Bank, that way they have no excess to return to me and I am just done with them.
Aesop
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Aesop »

92irish wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:11 pmLet us know how HSA Bank handles your cash balance - I'm curious. I think they have a $25 account closure fee. I have HSA Bank (for now).
I contacted them again yesterday and was told that they had not received my transfer request (they confirmed receiving it two weeks ago). After I told them that I was filing a complaint with the US Treasury, Office of the Comptroller of the Currency and contacting my attorney they were able to find it and said that it had been misplaced.

Anyway... They deducted the $25 fee for closing the account and cut the check to Lively today.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by aristotelian »

indexfundfan wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:37 pm
jhfenton wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:21 am In retrospect, I'm not sure why mine sailed through with everything frozen.
Could be that Lively added new measures for identity check. It's not unusual for things to change quickly at startups.
I am completing my registration now. I also got the ID request. I do have credit freezes at all except Experian. I noticed that Saturna also has ID upload as part of their application so Lively is not the only one.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by aristotelian »

I just completed the switch to Lively and executed my first trades today. The process was similar to jfhenton's description.

-Sign up was quick and easy as described. I did get the request to upload my drivers license photo.

-Service on Lively's end was excellent. The transfer papers were all done electronically.

-There was a slight delay in transferring from my employer credit union HSA, but it was the credit union's fault. The transfer form was sitting on someone's desk for several days after Lively had send it to them, and they needed a follow up phone call to process the papers.

-After the transfer, it took about 48 hours for the check to post in Lively's system, then another 24 hours for the transfer to post to the TD brokerage account.

-I went with 70% SPTM (SPDR Total Stock Market) and 30% SPTL (SPDR Long Term Treasury) from TD's free ETF list.

Now that the account is live, I find it interesting that there is no sign of it being labeled an HSA in TD's system. I can log in directly through TD and it appears to be a regular brokerage account. I guess that is all done by Lively?
John Laurens
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by John Laurens »

aristotelian wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:20 pm I just completed the switch to Lively and executed my first trades today. The process was similar to jfhenton's description.

-Sign up was quick and easy as described. I did get the request to upload my drivers license photo.

-Service on Lively's end was excellent. The transfer papers were all done electronically.

-There was a slight delay in transferring from my employer credit union HSA, but it was the credit union's fault. The transfer form was sitting on someone's desk for several days after Lively had send it to them, and they needed a follow up phone call to process the papers.

-After the transfer, it took about 48 hours for the check to post in Lively's system, then another 24 hours for the transfer to post to the TD brokerage account.

-I went with 70% SPTM (SPDR Total Stock Market) and 30% SPTL (SPDR Long Term Treasury) from TD's free ETF list.

Now that the account is live, I find it interesting that there is no sign of it being labeled an HSA in TD's system. I can log in directly through TD and it appears to be a regular brokerage account. I guess that is all done by Lively?

If you click “client services” , then “personal information” it will state “account name” and “account type”. It will state that it is an HSA

Regards,
John
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by aristotelian »

John Laurens wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:39 pm If you click “client services” , then “personal information” it will state “account name” and “account type”. It will state that it is an HSA

Regards,
John
Indeed, it does. Thank you!
Northern Flicker
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Northern Flicker »

indexfundfan wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:00 pm There's one more option: HSA Authority if you can live with mutual funds. The annual fee at the HSA Authority is $36 and it has a bunch of low cost Vanguard mutual funds. It supports first dollar investing too (but you do need $1000 to establish the investment account).
+1
Run by Old National Bank a long established regional bank:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_National_Bank

You get access to a decent selection of Vanguard mutual funds at cost (no ER add-on) with an annual fee of only $36:

https://www.oldnational.com/thehsaauthority
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan »

OP here. I decided to try out Lively myself and opened an account. So far I'm pleased.

I did not have to upload my driver license; although I did have to answer a few automatically generated questions related to my credit report.

The micro-deposits were deposited promptly the next day. Verification of the micro-deposits are still done by email.

I have just submitted the ACH request to move money in. I'm hoping the money will reach Lively on Tuesday (Monday being a holiday). I will activate the TDAM account on Tuesday and have the money in TDAM on Wed to trade. Am I too optimistic? :-)
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by KATNYC »

investingparentof2 wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:08 pm
I am pretty new to HSAs since my companty is offering a high deductible plan for the first time so I'm learning as much as I can. I came across this thread and have been following for a bit. I reached out to Lively and they now allow contributions through payroll. You just have ask them about it when you sign-up and they'll send you the info to give to your company. This was an email from their support team:

"Recently, we've received a lot of demand to allow any 3rd party to make contributions into our user's Lively HSA accounts.

As such, we have now made this feature available. Since you all have indicated that this was of interest to you (e.g., providing your HSA account information to your employer), you all are receiving this email."

I haven't asked for my information yet, but am planning to. Anyone else ask them or it is just me?
This is great news. I contacted my payroll department weeks ago about setting up an HSA to get some forms and info. They directed me to the FSA team claiming they could set up the HSA, they couldn't just as I suspected. We have no HSA options although the plan qualifies. Glad to know Lively can provide the forms to submit to payroll instead.
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