Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:48 pm
Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
If you have $100k in mutual funds, your broker will treat that as $50k in cash for margin purposes. So, without forcing you to sell the mutual funds, they'll pretend you have $50k in cash in your margin account, which you can use to buy $167k (50/0.3) of SPY.
So which is more Bogle-heady for December?
100k in safe mutual funds
100k in safe mutual funds
100k in the S&P500 in December, but this is all on margin with some cushion because you didn't get the full $167k.
So which is more Bogle-heady for December?
100k in safe mutual funds
100k in safe mutual funds
100k in the S&P500 in December, but this is all on margin with some cushion because you didn't get the full $167k.
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
Take an afternoon to read this thread before you start messing around with leverage: viewtopic.php?t=5934
merely an interested amateur
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
And the follow-up thread: viewtopic.php?t=11742
Last edited by EngCapt1 on Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Retired Firefighter | 65% Equities/35% TSP G Fund
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:48 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
OK fair enough, but let's say I did some multiple of this with my money planning to get out on the close with a nice few thousand dollars gain, bt couldn't get out of the S&P end of day because it had a crazy inexplicable WTHF is going on drop in the last 15 minutes (even though both the DJIA and NASDAQ went up a ton and didn't drop). It's prudent to hold onto this until tomorrow where there will be a certain rebound, rather than take a few thousand dollars loss by liquidating in after hours trading no?
Last edited by whiteprius on Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- SmileyFace
- Posts: 9081
- Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:11 am
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
You decided to move all your stock mutual funds into High-Yield Bond funds (or at least this is what you stated in another thread) and now you are considering buying back into S&P on margin? Do I have this right?
Nothing about what you are stating is very Bogle-heady as no Bogle-heady book/source/reference ever talks about market timing nor about buying on margin. Just the fact you are asking what you should do in "December" is not very Bogle-heady.
Maybe you are in the wrong forum
Nothing about what you are stating is very Bogle-heady as no Bogle-heady book/source/reference ever talks about market timing nor about buying on margin. Just the fact you are asking what you should do in "December" is not very Bogle-heady.
Maybe you are in the wrong forum
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:48 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
I was planning to only do it today, got in at the open, get out at the close. Was working beautifully with a nice few thousand dollars gain, free money if you think of it, until 3:50pm when I don't know what in the world happened to the S&P. Right now I'm planning to hold onto it until tomorrow, get that few thousand of free money, and then not do this again.
-
- Posts: 3611
- Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:02 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
That's crazy! Why, it's almost like you can't tell what the market is going to do!whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:15 pm I was planning to only do it today, got in at the open, get out at the close. Was working beautifully with a nice few thousand dollars gain, free money if you think of it, until 3:50pm when I don't know what in the world happened to the S&P. Right now I'm planning to hold onto it until tomorrow, get that few thousand of free money, and then not do this again.
Who knew?
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
Probably some big institutional player targeting your position.whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:11 pm OK fair enough, but let's say I did some multiple of this with my money planning to get out on the close with a nice few thousand dollars gain, bt couldn't get out of the S&P end of day because it had a crazy inexplicable WTHF is going on drop in the last 15 minutes (even though both the DJIA and NASDAQ went up a ton and didn't drop)
If the rebound is certain I'd borrow to invest some more. DITM Calls will give you a x2 leverage at very little cost and if you use an Ultra Proshare as the underlying, you get x4.It's prudent to hold onto this until tomorrow where there will be a certain rebound, rather than take a few thousand dollars loss by liquidating in after hours trading no?
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
I have worked the margin desk at a brokerage firm. I am not getting your question. Why trade after hours? I can't think of the point.whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:11 pm OK fair enough, but let's say I did some multiple of this with my money and couldn't get out of the S&P end of day because it had a crazy inexplicable WTHF is going on drop in the last 15 minutes (even though both the DJIA and NASDAQ went up a ton and didn't drop). It's prudent to hold onto this until tomorrow where there will be a certain rebound, rather than take a few thousand dollars loss by liquidating in after hours trading no?
1 of 2 things will happen. The brokerage firm normally will send out a margin demand giving you X days to bring in Y dollars - either by cash, selling securities, or by market appreciation. Or the market blows up, the broker sells you out, then informs you. I would be hard pressed to think of a real life situation where the second option happened if you were invested in a broad market index and I was on the margin desk during 9/11.
Former brokerage operations & mutual fund accountant. I hate risk, which is why I study and embrace it.
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:48 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
Oh I wish I was that important. This was only $400k of the S&P. I didn't use the full margin and 4 seems like a nice number. I don't think anyone has the power to drop the s&p that steeply in ten minutes for me, for a position I finished purchasing in the morning-ish.
Every time I do something like this and get stressed out, I tell myself I wont' do it again, but I do. THey're not ludicrious crazy bets, but I wish I wasn't so greedy.
Last edited by whiteprius on Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:48 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
Well SPY is up a bit afterhours so I can just get out of this bet and sleep easy. But I'm like 95% sure the S&P will be up tomorrow and that this was an erratic drop so that seems like throwing money away.alex_686 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:20 pmI have worked the margin desk at a brokerage firm. I am not getting your question. Why trade after hours? I can't think of the point.whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:11 pm OK fair enough, but let's say I did some multiple of this with my money and couldn't get out of the S&P end of day because it had a crazy inexplicable WTHF is going on drop in the last 15 minutes (even though both the DJIA and NASDAQ went up a ton and didn't drop). It's prudent to hold onto this until tomorrow where there will be a certain rebound, rather than take a few thousand dollars loss by liquidating in after hours trading no?
-
- Posts: 25617
- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:20 pm
- Location: New York
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
Trying to earn your $117k back?whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:08 pm If you have $100k in mutual funds, your broker will treat that as $50k in cash for margin purposes. So, without forcing you to sell the mutual funds, they'll pretend you have $50k in cash in your margin account, which you can use to buy $167k (50/0.3) of SPY.
So which is more Bogle-heady for December?
100k in safe mutual funds
100k in safe mutual funds
100k in the S&P500 in December, but this is all on margin with some cushion because you didn't get the full $167k.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
-
- Posts: 25617
- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:20 pm
- Location: New York
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
+1DaftInvestor wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:14 pm You decided to move all your stock mutual funds into High-Yield Bond funds (or at least this is what you stated in another thread) and now you are considering buying back into S&P on margin? Do I have this right?
Nothing about what you are stating is very Bogle-heady as no Bogle-heady book/source/reference ever talks about market timing nor about buying on margin. Just the fact you are asking what you should do in "December" is not very Bogle-heady.
Maybe you are in the wrong forum
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:48 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
No this forum is good for me. I'm really trying to drop this day trading risk taking habit and hopefully with enough abuse I will. The only addition I woudl recommend is an audio feature so people could yell at and lecture the risk-takers.
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
Have you ever heard of Nick Leeson ?
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:48 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
After-hour markets are thin, so I would not trust the posted price and I would like not to be brutalized by the higher bid / ask spreads. Margin is on the edge of Bogleheads, quick trading like this is not, and trading in the after hours market is for the desperate.whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:21 pm Well SPY is up a bit afterhours so I can just get out of this bet and sleep easy. But I'm like 95% sure the S&P will be up tomorrow and that this was an erratic drop so that seems like throwing money away.
Take a deep breath. I don't think this type of trading is your cup of tea. It requires nerves of steel and a fair amount of skill.
Former brokerage operations & mutual fund accountant. I hate risk, which is why I study and embrace it.
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:48 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
Yeah really well said, and the one time in my life when I did take a stoic nerves of steel "ride the waves" attitude on such a trade (with an idiotic health stock), I lost $30k in 3 hours of sitting there telling myself "don't panic it'll come back. don't panic. don't let your emotions get to you" before finally waking up and getting out (and lucky I did I would have lost $100k if I stayed in).
These bets are not worth the stress. It's just a few thousand dollars but still.
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
Whatever man. Gambling is cool. I play the lotto at $1 a week myself. Whatever amount you're comfortable with as long as you accept that it's gambling.
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:48 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
Serious academic comment Alex -- the prices move a preposterous amount in overnight trading lately. It's really bizarre. Like SPY closed at 266.75 but it's already up to 266.94 in extended hours. Not sure what to make of it but it happens every day.
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
whiteprius,whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:27 pmOh come on this isn't *that* risky. I'm in $400k of the actual S&P not a derivative.
So what? Can you afford to lose 200K? How many years of savings is that? How about 100K?
KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:48 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
That amount of an S&P drop would be 2007ish and unlikely, but your attitude is the right one klangfool. I think smart investors overstate risk and understate upside.
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
Margin sounds to me like a headache I would rather avoid
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
whiteprius,whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:39 pm That amount of an S&P drop would be 2007ish and unlikely, but your attitude is the right one klangfool. I think smart investors overstate risk and understate upside.
I lost 50% of my portfolio in the Telecom bust. I paid dearly for my lesson.
KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
This is gambling. It is compulsive and thrill seeking behavior. It is not investing. Until you are willing to accept this nobody here can help you.whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:39 pm That amount of an S&P drop would be 2007ish and unlikely, but your attitude is the right one klangfool. I think smart investors overstate risk and understate upside.
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:48 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
This is true. The problem is I was a math major so can prove why one should avoid casinos, but this S&P bet seemed certain to have a positive expected value and there's no math to prove why it was a bad bet. I still don't know what in the world happened those last 10 minutes of the trading day. The DJIA and NASDAQ maintained their gains but the S&P fell like a rock.
Last edited by whiteprius on Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 3611
- Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:02 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
I bought silver on the day of the all-time top in 1980.KlangFool wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:43 pmwhiteprius,whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:39 pm That amount of an S&P drop would be 2007ish and unlikely, but your attitude is the right one klangfool. I think smart investors overstate risk and understate upside.
I lost 50% of my portfolio in the Telecom bust. I paid dearly for my lesson.
KlangFool
On margin.
That was an expensive lesson, but I learned it well.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
Just because something has a positive expected value doesn’t mean it fits within a reasonable risk aversion curve. Would you put your entire life savings on a bet with 100% payout and a 52% chance of being right? I sure as hell wouldn’t.whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:46 pmThis is true. The problem is I was a math major so can prove why one should avoid casinos, but this S&P bet seemed certain to have a positive expected value. I still don't know what in the world happened those last 10 minutes of the trading day. The DJIA and NASDAQ maintained their gains but the S&P fell like a rock.
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:48 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
See these are good attitudes. I've noticed that successful people are much more risk averse than the common folk.
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
Well, that's not really correct. What's the best investment if you have 100k and owe 200k to the Russian mafia by week's close ?whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:46 pm The problem is I was a math major so can prove why one should avoid casinos,
but there is also no math able to prove that the expected value was indeed positive.but this S&P bet seemed certain to have a positive expected value and there's no math to prove why it was a bad bet.
That's because you are not a finance major.I still don't know what in the world happened those last 10 minutes of the trading day. The DJIA and NASDAQ maintained their gains but the S&P fell like a rock.
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
Gambling whether at the casino or stock market is a compulsive disorder and often has little to dowhiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:50 pmSee these are good attitudes. I've noticed that successful people are much more risk averse than the common folk.
With education or even success. My wife wastes lots of money at casinos and she is very smart and successful.
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
If you want to use leverage, it probably makes sense to hold the position for longer than one day. Look into futures for a cheap way to do that.
-g$$
-g$$
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
Does it? Does it really?whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:35 pm Serious academic comment Alex -- the prices move a preposterous amount in overnight trading lately. It's really bizarre. Like SPY closed at 266.75 but it's already up to 266.94 in extended hours. Not sure what to make of it but it happens every day.
Look at the market during normal trading hours. Lots of traders. Some are fundamental investors who have time horizons of years, others are engaged in statistical arbitrage with time horizons of less than a second. In short, a rich deep heterogeneous market with great price discovery going on. I trust those prices - the market's liquidity has depth.
The after-hours market is filled with the desperate and those who pray on them. There is no guaranty that you can sell your stock at that price. Thin liquidity. Post your trade and you may find the other side has evaporated. To get a trade to execute one often has to offer a ridiculous price. Often the person on the other side has a information advantage over you.
Former brokerage operations & mutual fund accountant. I hate risk, which is why I study and embrace it.
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:48 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
Yet the after hours trading determines the opening price which is what makes this odd. Back in the old days there was virtually no after hours price movement.
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
After hours market closes at 8pm Eastern. A lot can happen in the following 13.5 hours.whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:58 pm Yet the after hours trading determines the opening price
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
whiteprius,whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:58 pm Yet the after hours trading determines the opening price which is what makes this odd. Back in the old days there was virtually no after hours price movement.
Can you do better than a bunch of Nobel Prize winners?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Term ... Management
KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:48 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
Do you disciplined folks have margin accounts, or do you refuse that feature on purpose to avoid temptation? I shouldn't have gotten one. Should have done cash only.
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
At a latter date we might go into the mechanics of why the market acts weird at the end of the day. Mainly because certain people need to do housecleaning duties every day so there is a last minute rush.whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:46 pm This is true. The problem is I was a math major so can prove why one should avoid casinos, but this S&P bet seemed certain to have a positive expected value and there's no math to prove why it was a bad bet. I still don't know what in the world happened those last 10 minutes of the trading day. The DJIA and NASDAQ maintained their gains but the S&P fell like a rock.
As a math major you should know that while the returns of the S&P are positive this does not make a good investment. On average you should be able to eek out a decent above average return by going on margin. However the markets have a serious fat tail issue, which means that every so often the market will break you.
Try reading up on "Long Term Capital Management" where guys with math PhDs and Nobel prizes in economics lost about 1 billion dollars in 6 weeks and need the help of the Federal Reserve to prevent the collapse of the market. Fat tails kill.
Former brokerage operations & mutual fund accountant. I hate risk, which is why I study and embrace it.
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
Of course. Can't do options comme il faut, otherwise.whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:04 pm Do you disciplined folks have margin accounts, or do you refuse that feature on purpose to avoid temptation? I shouldn't have gotten one. Should have done cash only.
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
I have a margin account. The rate is better than my credit card and it has helped me out with some cash flow issues. Short term only. I have also recommended leverage in the past. In particular, by not paying down one's mortgage account.whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:04 pm Do you disciplined folks have margin accounts, or do you refuse that feature on purpose to avoid temptation? I shouldn't have gotten one. Should have done cash only.
However, if you have a habit I would recommend removing it. I have seen too many people lose it all by playing with margin.
Former brokerage operations & mutual fund accountant. I hate risk, which is why I study and embrace it.
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:48 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
You don't get 0% fee 0% interest for 12 month balance transfer offers?
- triceratop
- Posts: 5838
- Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:20 pm
- Location: la la land
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
It took you less than 60 seconds to read those threads and digest the lessons from them? You are a fast reader, and an even faster learner!whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:11 pm OK fair enough, but let's say I did some multiple of this with my money planning to get out on the close with a nice few thousand dollars gain, bt couldn't get out of the S&P end of day because it had a crazy inexplicable WTHF is going on drop in the last 15 minutes (even though both the DJIA and NASDAQ went up a ton and didn't drop). It's prudent to hold onto this until tomorrow where there will be a certain rebound, rather than take a few thousand dollars loss by liquidating in after hours trading no?
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:48 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
DIdn't take too long to figure out they weren't too positive on margin investing.triceratop wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:12 pm
It took you less than 60 seconds to read those threads and digest the lessons from them? You are a fast reader, and an even faster learner!
-
- Posts: 1059
- Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:10 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
About my first taste of stock investing came in late 1970s or early 1980s. There was a stockbroker who did the same Saturday 5 mile run that I did-he might have given me a break on commission now and then-I was just a laborer
I seem to remember him giving me a lecture about the evils of margin
most of the stocks I bought through him are still paying dividends-and more and more dividends than they did back then-but those dividends,to the extent I don't need to spend them go into buying mutual fund shares
I seem to remember him giving me a lecture about the evils of margin
most of the stocks I bought through him are still paying dividends-and more and more dividends than they did back then-but those dividends,to the extent I don't need to spend them go into buying mutual fund shares
- triceratop
- Posts: 5838
- Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:20 pm
- Location: la la land
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
On the contrary, market timer started off very positive on margin investing. He ended up, well, negativewhiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:15 pmDIdn't take too long to figure out they weren't too positive on margin investing.triceratop wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:12 pm
It took you less than 60 seconds to read those threads and digest the lessons from them? You are a fast reader, and an even faster learner!
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:48 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
I can get out right now in overnight trading, based on the bid price, with zero gain/loss for the day, but I'm sure the S&P is going to shoot up tomorrow so I'm staying in for now. Markets will be open for another hour and 20 minutes though so I guess I'll be clicking a lot until then.
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:48 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
OK, I got out with $23 profit for the day on this trade after commissions and ETF fees. Ultimately this article scared me. The S&P has been on the longest no 5% dip streak in its history.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-i ... e37322037/
I wish had someone to follow me around and straight up slap me if I ever think of doing this again. Wasted a day.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-i ... e37322037/
I wish had someone to follow me around and straight up slap me if I ever think of doing this again. Wasted a day.
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
I was going to short the S+P, but now it will probably shoot up at market open.
- TomatoTomahto
- Posts: 17105
- Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
S&P futures are down 2 basis points. That’s relatively flat, but down. What do you know that nobody else does?
ETA: you posted while I was typing and checking futures. $23 dollars, heh? Sounds like the crappiest job in the world. Second crappiest might be following you around to slap you when you get frisky.
ETA: you posted while I was typing and checking futures. $23 dollars, heh? Sounds like the crappiest job in the world. Second crappiest might be following you around to slap you when you get frisky.
Last edited by TomatoTomahto on Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Re: Thoughts on using safe-ish investments to buy S&P 500 on margin in December?
You do. It is the person wearing your pants and standing in your shoes. (Or wearing your pants, skirt, dress or whatever if are female or a male wearing a dress, your whatever it is you wear if you are something or other. It may even be you don't wear shoes, but the point is still the same.)whiteprius wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:54 pm
I wish had someone to follow me around and straight up slap me if I ever think of doing this again. Wasted a day.