Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
Nuerosphere,
JDSU was my GLW. I recall both of them trading in sync around that time.
I ended up learning a similar, costly at the time, but not so costly over the long-term, lesson.
Oddly enough, my law school classmate ended up becoming general counsel of JDSU just before it changed into Viavi in the late 2010s. On paper, he benefited from a second, much smaller, bump, though I remember him being frustrated that he couldn't cash in due to restrictions on the shares.
JDSU was my GLW. I recall both of them trading in sync around that time.
I ended up learning a similar, costly at the time, but not so costly over the long-term, lesson.
Oddly enough, my law school classmate ended up becoming general counsel of JDSU just before it changed into Viavi in the late 2010s. On paper, he benefited from a second, much smaller, bump, though I remember him being frustrated that he couldn't cash in due to restrictions on the shares.
Last edited by DCChak on Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Psyayeayeduck
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
That is exactly what it is. It's pure greed betting on the thought that it will go higher. This is the same route with the Dutch and tulips. This is the same route of the dot com bust. This is the same route when it came to flipping houses before the 2008-2009 Great Recession. If one was already in knees deep in BC before it became a daily news article, they have already won and should tap out. Unfortunately, there are those folks who will risk everything they have to get that A+ even though getting the A- is good enough.GoldenFinch wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:10 am Bitcoin went to over 14,000 overnight. Does this mean more people are throwing money into bitcoin or it is more valuable for some other reason. I know this is a stupid question, but I want to understand. Bitcoin feels like dot.com stocks to me, with people jumping on the momentum. But I don’t know what to think except that I can’t imagine myself ever using it.
It's like being on a game show where you have already won the dining room set, the BBQ grill, the year supply of maid service, the jewelry, the Around the World trip, and and a fistful of cash and risking all those prizes so you can get a car with odds not in your favor. Quit now and call it a win if you are already in. I feel no sympathy if one continues on this path despite dire warnings.
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
You do realize that the implementation of Bitcoin itself was experiment at a possible solution to the the complete lack of faith in governments and central banks where banks are bailed out by printing money out of thin air at the expense of everyone whose money is devalued?Psyayeayeduck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:39 am
That is exactly what it is. It's pure greed betting on the thought that it will go higher. This is the same route with the Dutch and tulips. This is the same route of the dot com bust. This is the same route when it came to flipping houses before the 2008-2009 Great Recession. If one was already in knees deep in BC before it became a daily news article, they have already won and should tap out. Unfortunately, there are those folks who will risk everything they have to get that A+ even though getting the A- is good enough.
Satoshi's message in the Bitcoin Genesis block:
Mr. Bogle is revered here for providing us with low cost index funds that give us low cost access to a wide range of investments and markets. But Satoshi's experiment as he called is has much further reaching consequences even if it remotely succeeds. Bitcoin has been fueled by speculation but what if it results in an economic black swan event? It's really surprising that such an intelligent as we have here have such a narrow view and are certain that Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme, tulips and will crash. There are many who believe in the economic benefits of Bitcoin so much that some have have given up their well paying careers advocating and evangelizing Bitcoin for years.The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
Was money really devalued though? Inflation has been very low and even central bankers are confused to why. There are places where homes are still under their 2007 peak. Very low unemployment but wages aren't rising very fast.fatlever wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:29 am You do realize that the implementation of Bitcoin itself was experiment at a possible solution to the the complete lack of faith in governments and central banks where banks are bailed out by printing money out of thin air at the expense of everyone whose money is devalued?
The problem with Bitcoin, as I see it, is twofold.fatlever wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:29 am Satoshi's message in the Bitcoin Genesis block:Mr. Bogle is revered here for providing us with low cost index funds that give us low cost access to a wide range of investments and markets. But Satoshi's experiment as he called is has much further reaching consequences even if it remotely succeeds. Bitcoin has been fueled by speculation but what if it results in an economic black swan event? It's really surprising that such an intelligent as we have here have such a narrow view and are certain that Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme, tulips and will crash. There are many who believe in the economic benefits of Bitcoin so much that some have have given up their well paying careers advocating and evangelizing Bitcoin for years.The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks
1) You can create another superior cryptocurrency
2) No governing body which legitimizes it.
All world currencies have a very real demand, namely taxes. The United States requires taxes to be paid in US dollars. The United Kingdom requires taxes to be paid in British pounds. Germany requires taxes be paid in Euros. Canada requires taxes to be paid in Canadian dollars. While I can't speak for the other countries, in the United States if you avoid paying taxes for too long they throw you in jail and take all of your property. That threat creates a very real use for dollars.
Until there is a real use for Bitcoin that makes in indispensable over other crypto currencies it to me is merely a piece of hot "tech" that is in right now. Nokia used to be the hot cell phone until it wasn't. Better alternatives became available and people stopped using them.
Maybe I still don't quite understand!
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
You are calling it a black swan when we are smack in the middle of it not knowing if it is a black swan event or a bear's den. Seems like a foolish conclusion with limited data.
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
I firmly believe that bitcoin is a bubble, but that does not mean it's a Ponzi scheme. A Ponzi scheme is when a promoter uses cash from new investors to pay back old investors (while pocketing a substantial proportion). That's not what is happening with bitcoin. It's just a plain-old asset bubble.fatlever wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:29 amYou do realize that the implementation of Bitcoin itself was experiment at a possible solution to the the complete lack of faith in governments and central banks where banks are bailed out by printing money out of thin air at the expense of everyone whose money is devalued?Psyayeayeduck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:39 am
That is exactly what it is. It's pure greed betting on the thought that it will go higher. This is the same route with the Dutch and tulips. This is the same route of the dot com bust. This is the same route when it came to flipping houses before the 2008-2009 Great Recession. If one was already in knees deep in BC before it became a daily news article, they have already won and should tap out. Unfortunately, there are those folks who will risk everything they have to get that A+ even though getting the A- is good enough.
Satoshi's message in the Bitcoin Genesis block:Mr. Bogle is revered here for providing us with low cost index funds that give us low cost access to a wide range of investments and markets. But Satoshi's experiment as he called is has much further reaching consequences even if it remotely succeeds. Bitcoin has been fueled by speculation but what if it results in an economic black swan event? It's really surprising that such an intelligent as we have here have such a narrow view and are certain that Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme, tulips and will crash. There are many who believe in the economic benefits of Bitcoin so much that some have have given up their well paying careers advocating and evangelizing Bitcoin for years.The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks
There's an outside chance that Bitcoin could become a world currency on par with the Dollar or the Pound, but in order for that to happen, the exponential value increase needs to slow significantly and the exchange component needs to become much smoother, and security needs to be improved. Frankly, I don't see how that happens from a logistic and practical standpoint.
Bitcoin could very well go to 100,000 or 1,000,000 before this is all over. But that doesn't mean I am getting in. Just not in my constitution to try to figure out who the greatest fool is.
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
I am not saying it's a black swan event. I said what if it results in one -- what if it turns out to be one. I don't think we've seen anything like this and I think I am not sure how people can with absolute certainty call it modern tulips or ponzi scams.Psyayeayeduck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:56 am
You are calling it a black swan when we are smack in the middle of it not knowing if it is a black swan event or a bear's den. Seems like a foolish conclusion with limited data.
Well, I want to FIRE if Bitcoin can help if I do that responsibly, is that an issue? As much as I have been posting in the Bitcoin threads, I have been very conservative re-balancing out of Bitcoin every time it balloons up and then dollar cost average back in small amounts. I've lost out on a ton of gains that way. But I am certainly glad I got in and I am benefiting. Even if Bitcoin drops to 0, I've significantly reduced the number of years I have to work. If it's a black swan event, it's like I've won the lottery. It's no risk, potential lottery reward.alfaspider wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:00 am
Bitcoin could very well go to 100,000 or 1,000,000 before this is all over. But that doesn't mean I am getting in. Just not in my constitution to try to figure out who the greatest fool is.
In a thread earlier this year, someone posted they had $250K in crypto and I was thinking they were nuts. Maybe they have a million now and they were rewarded for that risk.
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
You can certainly gamble and win. If your goal is to be fabulously wealthy or FI very young, you are probably going to have to take some significant risks to get there. That's not my goal, and for me, the risk exceeds the potential reward. You can also greatly accelerate FI from going to Las Vegas and putting all of your investments on a spin of the roulette wheel- there's an almost 50% chance you will double your money. That doesn't make it responsible.fatlever wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:32 amI am not saying it's a black swan event. I said what if it results in one -- what if it turns out to be one. I don't think we've seen anything like this and I think I am not sure how people can with absolute certainty call it modern tulips or ponzi scams.Psyayeayeduck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:56 am
You are calling it a black swan when we are smack in the middle of it not knowing if it is a black swan event or a bear's den. Seems like a foolish conclusion with limited data.
Well, I want to FIRE if Bitcoin can help if I do that responsibly, is that an issue? As much as I have been posting in the Bitcoin threads, I have been very conservative re-balancing out of Bitcoin every time it balloons up and then dollar cost average back in small amounts. I've lost out on a ton of gains that way. But I am certainly glad I got in and I am benefiting. Even if Bitcoin drops to 0, I've significantly reduced the number of years I have to work. If it's a black swan event, it's like I've won the lottery. It's no risk, potential lottery reward.alfaspider wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:00 am
Bitcoin could very well go to 100,000 or 1,000,000 before this is all over. But that doesn't mean I am getting in. Just not in my constitution to try to figure out who the greatest fool is.
In a thread earlier this year, someone posted they had $250K in crypto and I was thinking they were nuts. Maybe they have a million now and they were rewarded for that risk.
I don't understand your comment that bitcoin is "no risk." You have gotten outsized gains in part because there's a very real risk that bitcoin could fall to nominal value like the proverbial tulip bulb, just as you could loose all your money by putting everything on a roulette wheel. DCA is reducing your risk, but also your potential returns.
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
Would you pay a 15-25% premium for an investment because of confidence in it rising even more?
http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/12/technol ... index.html
That is a classic bubble symptom.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/12/technol ... index.html
That is a classic bubble symptom.
Last edited by Northern Flicker on Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
Didn’t Warren Buffet say at one point the same thing about tech stocks?
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
If and when Bitcoin does what I think it will do,perhaps after much more titillation,it won't be a black swan event because a true black swan event is something not predicable,probably not even foreseeable -perhaps the Fukushima Daiichi reactor disaster?
with Bitcoin there will be a lot of "I told you so" s.
with Bitcoin there will be a lot of "I told you so" s.
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
This is false. Do not confuse outcome with strategy.saltycaper wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:15 pm Looks like it's up about 30% since his comments 8 days ago, far outpacing the return of US stocks and bonds. So far Bogle's been wrong.
I can tell you not to bet on Big 6 on a craps table because it's a sucker's bet. Even if you do it anyway, and win 4 times in a row does not mean I was wrong.
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
This is an argument AGAINST bitcoin, because the vast majority of people (at least in the U.S.) do not have a complete lack of faith in the U.S. government or the banks, and money has not been devalued here (Inflation is low). So it will not be adopted by the masses, if that's the reason for bitcoin existing.fatlever wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:29 amYou do realize that the implementation of Bitcoin itself was experiment at a possible solution to the the complete lack of faith in governments and central banks where banks are bailed out by printing money out of thin air at the expense of everyone whose money is devalued?
There are the fringe radicals who believe in bitcoin because they hate the government. And then the other 99% of U.S. people investing in bitcoin just want to get rich by CONVERTING BITCOIN BACK TO U.S. DOLLARS.
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
It's definitely next-gen gold. Maybe us old folks think of gold in this context but those young whipper-snappers, why they think digitally. There's no ap for gold (is there?) but crypto-currencies ....HomerJ wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:22 amThis is an argument AGAINST bitcoin, because the vast majority of people (at least in the U.S.) do not have a complete lack of faith in the U.S. government or the banks, and money has not been devalued here (Inflation is low). So it will not be adopted by the masses, if that's the reason for bitcoin existing.fatlever wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:29 amYou do realize that the implementation of Bitcoin itself was experiment at a possible solution to the the complete lack of faith in governments and central banks where banks are bailed out by printing money out of thin air at the expense of everyone whose money is devalued?
There are the fringe radicals who believe in bitcoin because they hate the government.
Other possible conversions include:And then the other 99% of U.S. people investing in bitcoin just want to get rich by CONVERTING BITCOIN BACK TO U.S. DOLLARS.
- Tesla cars
- second homes in Florida or mountains of Colorado, Utah, Wyoming etc.
- long holidays in exotic locales
- early retirement (OK, granted, you have to buy that retirement with money - but as an end goal)
- Apple products
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
Whether one likes or dislikes the strategy of any given cycle, monetary policy is certainly an important lever for the behavior of any economy. So, it would seem to me that no sane society would want to abandon those tools, which is what would happen if cryptocurrencies didn't have some government control.HomerJ wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:22 am This is an argument AGAINST bitcoin, because the vast majority of people (at least in the U.S.) do not have a complete lack of faith in the U.S. government or the banks, and money has not been devalued here (Inflation is low). So it will not be adopted by the masses, if that's the reason for bitcoin existing.
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
Yes, it was also true of internet stocks in 1999moneywise3 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:46 am Didn’t Warren Buffet say at one point the same thing about tech stocks?
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
People understand that Bitcoin has no actual value right?
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
Remember though that you don't have independent monetary policy if you have fixed exchange rates. Or one currency, like the Eurozone (you have one size fits all MP, then).Rolyatroba wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:49 amWhether one likes or dislikes the strategy of any given cycle, monetary policy is certainly an important lever for the behavior of any economy. So, it would seem to me that no sane society would want to abandon those tools, which is what would happen if cryptocurrencies didn't have some government control.HomerJ wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:22 am This is an argument AGAINST bitcoin, because the vast majority of people (at least in the U.S.) do not have a complete lack of faith in the U.S. government or the banks, and money has not been devalued here (Inflation is low). So it will not be adopted by the masses, if that's the reason for bitcoin existing.
We live in a world of managed exchange rates, so countries don't have as much discretion as you might think.
To have truly independent MP, you need exchange controls. Cue China. Which then has had to clamp down on bitcoin ... so we go round in circles.
I think the real problem is the trackability of money-- money that can tracelessly be used for paying for criminal activities, money laundering and tax evasion- -that's what the real problem for the state is.
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
Yes.
You can certainly make money via speculation. But the coins themselves are good for nothing and backed by nothing.
Gotta just hope you are not the one left holding the bag when the bar closes. I just hope it goes ahead and crashes prior to it getting too high that it effects the economy.
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
No. It's true. Outcome, strategy, schmategy. What makes the most money is what's right. Don't believe me? Just ask Jack Bogle.HomerJ wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:13 amThis is false. Do not confuse outcome with strategy.saltycaper wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:15 pm Looks like it's up about 30% since his comments 8 days ago, far outpacing the return of US stocks and bonds. So far Bogle's been wrong.
I can tell you not to bet on Big 6 on a craps table because it's a sucker's bet. Even if you do it anyway, and win 4 times in a row does not mean I was wrong.
Jack's still been wrong about bitcoin. He's even more wrong today than he was when I first said he's been wrong, 7 days ago.
*This post as well as the post HomerJ quoted is a sarcastic reference to Jack Bogle's stance on international stocks as well as a lengthy thread that appeared on the Bogleheads regarding just how "right" Jack was about whether or not investors should maintain an international allocation.
Quod vitae sectabor iter?
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
In order to be wrong or right one has to show the rationale behind the assessment.
If someone bets $100 on number 11 at the roulette because it has not come out in the last 1,000 spins, the fact that he wins or loses is irrelevant. Winning those $3,500 can only make him lucky, not right.
If someone bets $100 on number 11 at the roulette because it has not come out in the last 1,000 spins, the fact that he wins or loses is irrelevant. Winning those $3,500 can only make him lucky, not right.
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
If Bitcoin is becoming an asset class it is by far the smallest asset class. 279 billion market cap versus 7.5 trillion for gold. If Bitcoin is viewed as a non-correlated asset it's a great diversifier under modern portfolio theory. There is talk of this and so people are moving a small percentage of their overall wealth into the space. If all this is so then Bitcoin has a lot higher to go.
A portfolio is like a bar of soap. The more you handle it the smaller it gets.
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
All perfectly random investment classes, such as BTC and Bingo, are perfectly uncorrelated to everything else by definition.
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
"Hey we invented a currency that sanctioned countries like Russia, terrorists and criminals can use to evade U.S. laws, and no don't worry the U.S. government won't ever crack down and destroy its value"
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
I'm glad to hear him say this. Nice article, thank you. I have been avoiding it so it is nice to know I was on the right track.TheTimeLord wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:19 pm https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... the-plague“Avoid bitcoin like the plague. Did I make myself clear?” Bogle, founder of Vanguard Group Inc., said in response to an audience question at a Council on Foreign Relations event in New York Tuesday.
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
Buffet said to avoid Tech Stocks like the plague? Maybe he should stick to investing the way he told his wife to....Index Funds!moneywise3 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:46 am Didn’t Warren Buffet say at one point the same thing about tech stocks?
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
You mean treasuries ?
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
Oh, they are good. That's the only species people are allowed to use to pay their taxes and the US Government collects trillions worth of them every year.
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
Yup. It's backed, in part, by you.
Quod vitae sectabor iter?
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
I put in $500 from my hockey fund when BTC was around 4000, and cashed out a few weeks later when it hit 16000. That should cover my playoff tickets, assuming the Sharks make it.
I don't like unsteady/unpredictable markets. I'll wait until it stabilizes to get back in. Or if I have leftover playoff funds in the spring - gotta have some upside
I don't like unsteady/unpredictable markets. I'll wait until it stabilizes to get back in. Or if I have leftover playoff funds in the spring - gotta have some upside
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
U.S. government issued IOU pieces of paper are reliable means of exchange, which can be used to buy food, clothing, shelter and medical care.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein |
Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
Maybe. Maybe not. It sounds like the individuals and countries driving up Bitcoin's price - are Asian. I'm guessing many of them do have a lack of faith in the U.S. government and banks (e.g., 2007-2009). It sounds like U.S. investment/speculation only accounts for 1/5 of total bitcoin trading volume. I guess it's debatable whether those countries have the power to sustain Bitcoin's run, but it's interesting nonetheless.HomerJ wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:22 am This is an argument AGAINST bitcoin, because the vast majority of people (at least in the U.S.) do not have a complete lack of faith in the U.S. government or the banks, and money has not been devalued here (Inflation is low). So it will not be adopted by the masses, if that's the reason for bitcoin existing.
There are the fringe radicals who believe in bitcoin because they hate the government. And then the other 99% of U.S. people investing in bitcoin just want to get rich by CONVERTING BITCOIN BACK TO U.S. DOLLARS.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense ... south.html
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
I must object: Federal Reserve notes are not IOU's. At least they haven't been since 1964.
Why would Asian individuals and "countries" (which ones ?) care about US governments and banks ? They have their own. Now, if you had written that they turn to BTC because they have no faith in their own currencies, that would make some sense. Although, a currency with a value that can swing by 25% in less than a week is a pretty one.
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
I was using CnC's terminology, not endorsing it, to demonstrate that you can buy necessities of life with government issued currency.
Perhaps I should have put "government IOU pieces of paper" in quotes.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein |
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
Bogle had been wrong before...
One example that is Michael Burry of big short fame:
viewtopic.php?t=53971
One example that is Michael Burry of big short fame:
viewtopic.php?t=53971
Marketeer investing as a hobby. Interested in modern takes on value investing, passive investing and general contrarianism.
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
Another important thing: Does the U.S. Federal government accept bitcoin for the payment of federal taxes?ruralavalon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:25 pmU.S. government issued IOU pieces of paper are reliable means of exchange, which can be used to buy food, clothing, shelter and medical care.
The government only accepts U.S. dollars for tax payments - very, very important.
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
Also U.S. dollars are legal tender for all debts public and private.john4546 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:12 amAnother important thing: Does the U.S. Federal government accept bitcoin for the payment of federal taxes?ruralavalon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:25 pmU.S. government issued IOU pieces of paper are reliable means of exchange, which can be used to buy food, clothing, shelter and medical care.
The government only accepts U.S. dollars for tax payments - very, very important.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein |
Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
ruralavalon wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:24 amAlso U.S. dollars are legal tender for all debts public and private.john4546 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:12 amAnother important thing: Does the U.S. Federal government accept bitcoin for the payment of federal taxes?ruralavalon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:25 pmU.S. government issued IOU pieces of paper are reliable means of exchange, which can be used to buy food, clothing, shelter and medical care.
The government only accepts U.S. dollars for tax payments - very, very important.
The U.S. is monetarily sovereign - meaning it is a currency issuer, and the U.S. federal government, like the Japanese government, and any other country that issues its own currency, cannot go bankrupt, ever. These countries can always pay their debts. Do a google search and learn about "Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)."
Please see these websites if you want to learn more:
http://mikenormaneconomics.blogspot.com
https://mythfighter.com
And to those who (a.k.a. the "Hyperinflationistas") think that we will get hyperinflation, hyperinflation is actually a very, very difficult economic phenomena to achieve. There is currency supply and DEMAND, which the "hyperinflationistas" don't get: There is still massive demand for the U.S. dollar, not just in the U.S., but also globally (being also the world reserve currency). Despite the hee-hawing of the naysayers and fear mongers, the U.S. dollar is by far the most coveted, stable and valued currency on the entire planet, and its dominance will most probably be maintained for the foreseeable future. Something like bitcoin is unlikely to replace the U.S. dollar any time soon.
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
Who is this and why should we care?john4546 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:26 pm Vention1MGTOW likes and endorses bitcoin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55WIcizU0Zs
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
What is Bogle doing working/speaking with CFR?
These are very sketchy people.
These are very sketchy people.
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
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- Epsilon Delta
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Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
The Cauchy distribution is not the class of distributions that have no mean or variance.Valuethinker wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:07 pm the distribution of outcomes has no (knowable) mean or dispersion (is technically that a Cauchy Distribution?).
A Cauchy distribution is a particular distribution* that just happens to have no mean or variance. It is often used as an example when discussing distributions that lack those properties but there are many others.
The Cauchy distribution isn't even particularly pathological. It's unimodal and continuous and differentiable everywhere. You can imagine it. You can draw it. There are much worse beasts out there. Indeed almost everything out there is much worse.
* Or a set of distributions with two parameters in much the same way the normal distribution has mean and variance as parameters.
Re: Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’
What’s the end game of agitating for Bitcoin? If you think it will make you rich or is the future of...something, go for it, but let’s not pretend that it’s a rational investment.