Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
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Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
Bogleheads,
My father purchased a landlocked 40 acre timber a few years ago to sell timber and for recreational activities ie. hunting, hiking, etc.
The seller of the timber owns all the adjacent property. There is a deed which grants access to the south side of the timber.
In the final purchase agreement (which we have an original one signed by the landowner) my father stipulated that we would have access through the landowners property to the North side of timber. Also we would have first right of refusal to lease the adjacent land for hunting purposes.
Long story short the landowner locked the gate we had been accessing the north side of the Timber. We had been using that gate since we purchased it 5 years ago.
I spoke to the landowner and he stated that the person leasing the hunting ground did not want my vehicle on the north side of the timber because it affected the way the deer traveled.
I was very non-confrontational even though the landowner was fairly agitated. I asked if there was any way we could compromise such as me parking in a different spot or using an ATV to get to the location. He refused. The landowner did state that I could walk from the road through his property to access the land. It is a very long walk for my 75 year old dad, not to mention my pregnant wife, and hopefully someday my children.
My father is going to speak with a lawyer today. I was just wondering what the community thought was a likely outcome.
I really don't want to start a row with the landowner. We have not had any issues with him for the most part. I am wondering if perhaps it would not be wise just to sell the place and avoid any further conflict.
Thank you for any insight.
DA
My father purchased a landlocked 40 acre timber a few years ago to sell timber and for recreational activities ie. hunting, hiking, etc.
The seller of the timber owns all the adjacent property. There is a deed which grants access to the south side of the timber.
In the final purchase agreement (which we have an original one signed by the landowner) my father stipulated that we would have access through the landowners property to the North side of timber. Also we would have first right of refusal to lease the adjacent land for hunting purposes.
Long story short the landowner locked the gate we had been accessing the north side of the Timber. We had been using that gate since we purchased it 5 years ago.
I spoke to the landowner and he stated that the person leasing the hunting ground did not want my vehicle on the north side of the timber because it affected the way the deer traveled.
I was very non-confrontational even though the landowner was fairly agitated. I asked if there was any way we could compromise such as me parking in a different spot or using an ATV to get to the location. He refused. The landowner did state that I could walk from the road through his property to access the land. It is a very long walk for my 75 year old dad, not to mention my pregnant wife, and hopefully someday my children.
My father is going to speak with a lawyer today. I was just wondering what the community thought was a likely outcome.
I really don't want to start a row with the landowner. We have not had any issues with him for the most part. I am wondering if perhaps it would not be wise just to sell the place and avoid any further conflict.
Thank you for any insight.
DA
Last edited by Devil's Advocate on Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
I should add that the only decent way to get to this north side of the property is through his field. There is a fairly large Creek that divides the property. Also most of the deer that we would be hunting bed on the south side of the property and we would have to drive by them and then walk all the way through the timber in order to get to the deer stand on the north side.
The landowners response was that we could hire a bulldozer and make our own access through the timber. This would be very expensive and likely not worth the effort and expense.
DA
The landowners response was that we could hire a bulldozer and make our own access through the timber. This would be very expensive and likely not worth the effort and expense.
DA
Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
Not sure given the agreement, but should have had an easement designated and in the title.
I actually own a similar piece of land, except I’m the one that you have to access through to get to a 20 acre parcel. There is no easement and it’s not on the title work. When I bought the land I politely told the owner behind me that he’s not to come through my property anymore. Fortunately he has another access point that butts up to another piece of land that he owns. I installed a gate and it’s locked.
This sounds like a different scenario though.
I actually own a similar piece of land, except I’m the one that you have to access through to get to a 20 acre parcel. There is no easement and it’s not on the title work. When I bought the land I politely told the owner behind me that he’s not to come through my property anymore. Fortunately he has another access point that butts up to another piece of land that he owns. I installed a gate and it’s locked.
This sounds like a different scenario though.
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Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
I agree. My father didn't think it necessary with the signed contract. Which may be okay if this land owner owns this land forever But if he sold it what good would that contract be. I am disappointed my dad did not make this a legal description in the deed.Bacchus01 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:46 am Not sure given the agreement, but should have had an easement designated and in the title.
I actually own a similar piece of land, except I’m the one that you have to access through to get to a 20 acre parcel. There is no easement and it’s not on the title work. When I bought the land I politely told the owner behind me that he’s not to come through my property anymore. Fortunately he has another access point that butts up to another piece of land that he owns. I installed a gate and it’s locked.
This sounds like a different scenario though.
DA
Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
If it were me, and I wasn't too emotionally invested in the land, I'd sell it and walk away (if you don't get good news from your lawyer).
Landlocked land is usually bad news, particularly if you don't have hard and fast legal access. Even if you get this sorted out and everything goes back to normal, who's to say a year down the road the landowner won't change his mind again? Or whoever possesses his property after him? That would be nagging at the back of my mind every time I went out, "I wonder if I'm going to be blocked when I get out there....?"
One possibility would be purchasing an easement from the landowner. It'd be expensive though (you've got to make it worth his while and he knows he's got the upper hand). BUT, if you did purchase an easement it'd immediately increase the value of your property.
The bad news is it would be difficult to sell under the current arrangements, a buyer would be very reluctant to walk through a field in order to look at their prospective property. Especially knowing that was exactly how they'd access it after it was purchased.
Landlocked land is usually bad news, particularly if you don't have hard and fast legal access. Even if you get this sorted out and everything goes back to normal, who's to say a year down the road the landowner won't change his mind again? Or whoever possesses his property after him? That would be nagging at the back of my mind every time I went out, "I wonder if I'm going to be blocked when I get out there....?"
One possibility would be purchasing an easement from the landowner. It'd be expensive though (you've got to make it worth his while and he knows he's got the upper hand). BUT, if you did purchase an easement it'd immediately increase the value of your property.
The bad news is it would be difficult to sell under the current arrangements, a buyer would be very reluctant to walk through a field in order to look at their prospective property. Especially knowing that was exactly how they'd access it after it was purchased.
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Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
There is an easement and access through his field on the south end of property already which he is not disputing.Yooper wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:32 am If it were me, and I wasn't too emotionally invested in the land, I'd sell it and walk away (if you don't get good news from your lawyer).
Landlocked land is usually bad news, particularly if you don't have hard and fast legal access. Even if you get this sorted out and everything goes back to normal, who's to say a year down the road the landowner won't change his mind again? Or whoever possesses his property after him? That would be nagging at the back of my mind every time I went out, "I wonder if I'm going to be blocked when I get out there....?"
One possibility would be purchasing an easement from the landowner. It'd be expensive though (you've got to make it worth his while and he knows he's got the upper hand). BUT, if you did purchase an easement it'd immediately increase the value of your property.
The bad news is it would be difficult to sell under the current arrangements, a buyer would be very reluctant to walk through a field in order to look at their prospective property. Especially knowing that was exactly how they'd access it after it was purchased.
DA
Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
This is state law dependent, but my guess is that you are stuck with the south side easement. Maybe him permitting you to use the north side for 5 years makes a difference, but I would bet not. It’s his private property and the use for 5 years is probably not long enough to give you any right to use it, unless maybe the person your dad bought it from used it for a long time.
It all depends on your state laws.
JT
It all depends on your state laws.
JT
Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
+1Yooper wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:32 am If it were me, and I wasn't too emotionally invested in the land, I'd sell it and walk away (if you don't get good news from your lawyer).
Landlocked land is usually bad news, particularly if you don't have hard and fast legal access. Even if you get this sorted out and everything goes back to normal, who's to say a year down the road the landowner won't change his mind again? Or whoever possesses his property after him? That would be nagging at the back of my mind every time I went out, "I wonder if I'm going to be blocked when I get out there....?"
One possibility would be purchasing an easement from the landowner. It'd be expensive though (you've got to make it worth his while and he knows he's got the upper hand). BUT, if you did purchase an easement it'd immediately increase the value of your property.
The bad news is it would be difficult to sell under the current arrangements, a buyer would be very reluctant to walk through a field in order to look at their prospective property. Especially knowing that was exactly how they'd access it after it was purchased.
Our family has had UP acreage for generations that originally gained access to the better side of the river via a parcel owned by a long deceased relative. I've long tried to purchase easement or significant acreage from the owners of the now split up adjancent parcel without success. I did procure about 40 years ago and still hold a national forest special use permit for a 'road' to access the less desirable side of the river via about 1/4 of national forest. Even this gets more restrictive with time as they now stipulate that it may not be used to haul timber out on. At least they have not been mandating the maintenance of the road as I cannot even locate the two 20 foot culverts they insisted I install forty years ago that connected to seasonally wet areas with each other.
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Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
I can understand the landowner's point of view. He doesn't want anyone going through his property (south side) and he owns that property so has every right to insist you stay off it. This is pretty clear. If you don't like the arrangement, sell the property and look for another where you have proper access legally described in the deed. "Agreements" are meaningless if they're not legal easements.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
Then I don't understand the issue. He is giving you access as per easement from the south. If he no longer wants to give you assess from the north, which is not covered by easement, it seems he has the right to do so.Devil's Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:44 amThere is an easement and access through his field on the south end of property already which he is not disputing.Yooper wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:32 am If it were me, and I wasn't too emotionally invested in the land, I'd sell it and walk away (if you don't get good news from your lawyer).
Landlocked land is usually bad news, particularly if you don't have hard and fast legal access. Even if you get this sorted out and everything goes back to normal, who's to say a year down the road the landowner won't change his mind again? Or whoever possesses his property after him? That would be nagging at the back of my mind every time I went out, "I wonder if I'm going to be blocked when I get out there....?"
One possibility would be purchasing an easement from the landowner. It'd be expensive though (you've got to make it worth his while and he knows he's got the upper hand). BUT, if you did purchase an easement it'd immediately increase the value of your property.
The bad news is it would be difficult to sell under the current arrangements, a buyer would be very reluctant to walk through a field in order to look at their prospective property. Especially knowing that was exactly how they'd access it after it was purchased.
DA
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Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
I guess we had his written agreement to allow us access to the north. My father naively assumed he didn't need the easement.
I agree with all of you that this debacle could have been avoided at the purchase.
Seems like selling may be the best bet.
DA
I agree with all of you that this debacle could have been avoided at the purchase.
Seems like selling may be the best bet.
DA
Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
OP, my first thought was that you are totally in the right, but then I realized that the agreement for the north side does not seem to say vehicles are okay, just access, so walking would probably be considered to provide that access. (I don't think I would be too happy walking through an area where hunting is allowed, having seen in the news recently that hunters have taken out a dog, a lady, a truck, and a horse.)
Is there some reason the southside access does not serve your purposes?
Is there some reason the southside access does not serve your purposes?
Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
Devil's Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:39 am My father purchased a landlocked 40 acre timber a few years ago to sell timber and for recreational activities ie. hunting, hiking, etc.
Would it be economical to harvest at least part of the timber now?Devil's Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:41 am The landowners response was that we could hire a bulldozer and make our own access through the timber. This would be very expensive and likely not worth the effort and expense.
If so then as part of the harvesting a road could be opened up.
Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
I think most non-lawyers not extremely familiar with property transactions would assume what your father did once he had "access" written in the agreement, even though it might not be correct (and any time of access, even walking, might not continue when the property was transferred), so I wouldn't be too critical of that.Devil's Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:41 am I guess we had his written agreement to allow us access to the north. My father naively assumed he didn't need the easement.
I agree with all of you that this debacle could have been avoided at the purchase.
Seems like selling may be the best bet.
DA
If a lawyer (employed by your father) was involved when you purchased that property, your disappointment might be misdirected.
Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
A square 40 acre parcel would be about 1/4 mile on a side. Is it feasible to create a path, rather than a road, from the south side, with a crude bridge over the stream?
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Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
The creek floods often so creating a bridge across could prove problematic.
Plus pushing the deer away by driving thru the timber also minimizes the allure to do this.
DA
Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
I would speak to a lawyer before selling. I didn’t quite understand this before, but the purchase agreement is likely a binding contract. So long as your father is the owner, he might have the right to use the road. Now whether he can drive a vehicle on it is another story, to which they lawyer may also be able to provide an answer.
JT
JT
Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
I may be way off on this, but it sounds like deer hunting is the primary focus and not hiking. It also sounds like you've probably set up a nice blind on the North because the deer bed in the South and you're waiting for them to come in. You don't want to stir them up on your way to the blind (if you came in from your actual deeded access on the South). And there's the creek between your access in the South and your blind in the North.
Perhaps logging 10-15 acres on the South end (which would probably break your heart initially - it looks really ugly) might be a solution. Sure, it would disrupt the bedding area, but once new growth took over you'd be set. Deer (and other small game) flock to new growth for feeding. You could even develop a small food plot within the logged area. Throw out some salt blocks (if allowed in your state). You'd have a honeypot set up for the deer, all you'd have to do in put up another blind on the South end.
Or you could see if you could either purchase the property adjacent to your North border, or lease it at a higher rate then what the current person is paying once his lease is up. Just some ideas.
Perhaps logging 10-15 acres on the South end (which would probably break your heart initially - it looks really ugly) might be a solution. Sure, it would disrupt the bedding area, but once new growth took over you'd be set. Deer (and other small game) flock to new growth for feeding. You could even develop a small food plot within the logged area. Throw out some salt blocks (if allowed in your state). You'd have a honeypot set up for the deer, all you'd have to do in put up another blind on the South end.
Or you could see if you could either purchase the property adjacent to your North border, or lease it at a higher rate then what the current person is paying once his lease is up. Just some ideas.
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Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
Curious - are any of the responses here by attorneys that specialize in this kind of law? I know real estate can be different, but OP has a signed agreement from the current land owner that he can access the land from the north, and precedent has been set for 5 years in regards to what access from the north means. IANAL but this does not seem to be an open and closed circumstance to me.
Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
Watch out for streams.
I know I stopped a dubious neighbor from finishing his poorly thought out driveway through the middle of my property by alerting the EPA that they were going over a stream. The EPA called them up and said if you cross a stream without building a county inspected bridge, the fines are $10K per day.
If you have access from the south, use that access. You may have to cut some trees down with permission, but that seems to be the only long term solution. If the stream is not deep, you could just try and reinforce the streambed so that your truck can ford it. This way you won't really interfere with it. As long as it keeps flowing, you'll be good.
If you're worried about spooking the deer, driving by there the day before hunting season won't mess with them too much, especially if you do it in the middle of the day. Deer are crepuscular not diurnal or nocturnal. Just don't go up there every weekend and deer won't become accustomed to your regular travel through that path. Remember, deer are stupid.
I know I stopped a dubious neighbor from finishing his poorly thought out driveway through the middle of my property by alerting the EPA that they were going over a stream. The EPA called them up and said if you cross a stream without building a county inspected bridge, the fines are $10K per day.
If you have access from the south, use that access. You may have to cut some trees down with permission, but that seems to be the only long term solution. If the stream is not deep, you could just try and reinforce the streambed so that your truck can ford it. This way you won't really interfere with it. As long as it keeps flowing, you'll be good.
If you're worried about spooking the deer, driving by there the day before hunting season won't mess with them too much, especially if you do it in the middle of the day. Deer are crepuscular not diurnal or nocturnal. Just don't go up there every weekend and deer won't become accustomed to your regular travel through that path. Remember, deer are stupid.
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Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
Thanks Yooper.Yooper wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:07 am I may be way off on this, but it sounds like deer hunting is the primary focus and not hiking. It also sounds like you've probably set up a nice blind on the North because the deer bed in the South and you're waiting for them to come in. You don't want to stir them up on your way to the blind (if you came in from your actual deeded access on the South). And there's the creek between your access in the South and your blind in the North.
Perhaps logging 10-15 acres on the South end (which would probably break your heart initially - it looks really ugly) might be a solution. Sure, it would disrupt the bedding area, but once new growth took over you'd be set. Deer (and other small game) flock to new growth for feeding. You could even develop a small food plot within the logged area. Throw out some salt blocks (if allowed in your state). You'd have a honeypot set up for the deer, all you'd have to do in put up another blind on the South end.
Or you could see if you could either purchase the property adjacent to your North border, or lease it at a higher rate then what the current person is paying once his lease is up. Just some ideas.
Yeah, deer and turkey hunting is primary focus. Dad did sell some timber off a few years ago. Does have a plan to sell some oak trees in the near future which may make the access from the south easier. However putting in a bridge won't be economically feasible.
Perhaps a dry crossing for an ATV would work. But would disturb where the deer bed for sure. Likely the deer hunting would be fine anyway.
There is a nice place for a food plot on the south side too. But it would be right by the bedding and likely spook deer away.
Will wait to hear from dad's attorney and see his opinion.
Thanks again.
DA
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Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
That seems to be my parent's opinion as well.ERISA Stone wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:19 am Curious - are any of the responses here by attorneys that specialize in this kind of law? I know real estate can be different, but OP has a signed agreement from the current land owner that he can access the land from the north, and precedent has been set for 5 years in regards to what access from the north means. IANAL but this does not seem to be an open and closed circumstance to me.
DA
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Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
In "normal" R/E, land cannot be sold that is landlocked. In this case you have legal SOUTH access. The NORTH access could be granted if you had hardcopy documents from the landowner saying he granted permission for you to do so. . .with no time limitation. . .or right of recind. That might be your only wiggle room if you took it to court. However, your instincts are correct, the landowner could make things difficult for you if you antagonize him. It would cost $$$ to hire legal counsel. . . and then build a case. . albeit a flimsy one. . to go to court.Devil's Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:00 amThat seems to be my parent's opinion as well.ERISA Stone wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:19 am Curious - are any of the responses here by attorneys that specialize in this kind of law? I know real estate can be different, but OP has a signed agreement from the current land owner that he can access the land from the north, and precedent has been set for 5 years in regards to what access from the north means. IANAL but this does not seem to be an open and closed circumstance to me.
DA
As stated earlier, you might consider selling the land and buying a property that has a more defined title and take this as a good lesson.
I am a retired R/E developer, not legal counsel.
j
Last edited by Sandtrap on Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
"The North access could be granted if you had hardcopy documents from the landowner saying he granted permission for you to do so. . .with no time limitation. . .or right of recind"
That's exactly what is in the purchase agreement signed by landowner.
Thanks Sandtrap.
DA
That's exactly what is in the purchase agreement signed by landowner.
Thanks Sandtrap.
DA
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Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
In situations like this, where there is no compromise (old father and pregnant wife), all you can do it fight fire with fire. Tell him if you can't drive, you are turning it into a shooting range and invite everyone you know to come shoot. The deer will be gone, long gone!Devil's Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:39 am I spoke to the landowner and he stated that the person leasing the hunting ground did not want my vehicle on the north side of the timber because it affected the way the deer traveled.
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Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
ddurrett896 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:01 amIn situations like this, where there is no compromise (old father and pregnant wife), all you can do it fight fire with fire. Tell him if you can't drive, you are turning it into a shooting range and invite everyone you know to come shoot. The deer will be gone, long gone!Devil's Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:39 am I spoke to the landowner and he stated that the person leasing the hunting ground did not want my vehicle on the north side of the timber because it affected the way the deer traveled.
Good one! I thought we may be doing our timber work (cutting lane thru timber) the next few weeks around 4 pm. May get the point across lol.
No seriously, heard from the closing attorney ( who represented both sides) and he thought we should get another attorney to draft a strongly worded letter. I believe we have a good legal case for enforcing the purchase agreement.
DA
Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
Talk to a real estate lawyer. These issues are going to be local.
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Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
Sell it. We had the same situation and a legal easement. The owner of the surrounding land did not lock the gate, but he simply quit maintaining the road leading to our property. When asked to do so, he refused and continued to do so when we offered to aid in maintaining the road. You will also have a problem selling without an easement and may have to sell to the owner of the adjoining property for a price he is willing to pay.
Tim
Tim
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Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
I'm not sure what force such a provision has in a purchase agreement, since it seems to conflict in a way with his rights as holder of the title of the land, which is the more foundational document.Devil's Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:58 am "The North access could be granted if you had hardcopy documents from the landowner saying he granted permission for you to do so. . .with no time limitation. . .or right of recind"
That's exactly what is in the purchase agreement signed by landowner.
Thanks Sandtrap.
DA
If the north side access is important, I think this is probably a case where it's worth the cost of consulting a real estate attorney. As I see it, that's the 2nd of three options:
1) Continue to negotiate with the adjacent landowner, who doesn't seem inclined to negotiate.
2) Try to enforce your understanding of the scope and authority of the purchase agreement.
3) Give up on north side access, and consider selling if that's one of the major reasons for owning the land.
Regarding (1) - Perhaps it is possible to discuss this with the leaseholder of the hunting ground and reach a friendly compromise to coordinate timing of visits, or some other way to keep all parties content? I presume the property owner is defensive because he has a financial interest in keeping his leaseholder happy enough with the arrangement to renew the lease.
Regarding (2) - I don't know how you would accomplish this without substantial knowledge of the law yourself, or the assistance of an attorney to first of all verify your understanding of your contractual rights, and secondly, follow the appropriate steps to enforce the contract.
(edit after being quoted in reply - was mislabled "Regarding (3)")
I get the impression he is not interested in selling a north side easement, at least not at a price your father would be willing to pay, so I only mention it in passing.
Last edited by iamlucky13 on Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
I just dropped off the purchase agreement to a local lawyer. He has experience in locale real estate. He seemed to think the agreement was enforceable. He is going to review the document and let me know.iamlucky13 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:56 pmI'm not sure what force such a provision has in a purchase agreement, since it seems to conflict in a way with his rights as holder of the title of the land, which is the more foundational document.Devil's Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:58 am "The North access could be granted if you had hardcopy documents from the landowner saying he granted permission for you to do so. . .with no time limitation. . .or right of recind"
That's exactly what is in the purchase agreement signed by landowner.
Thanks Sandtrap.
DA
If the north side access is important, I think this is probably a case where it's worth the cost of consulting a real estate attorney. As I see it, that's the 2nd of three options:
1) Continue to negotiate with the adjacent landowner, who doesn't seem inclined to negotiate.
2) Try to enforce your understanding of the scope and authority of the purchase agreement.
3) Give up on north side access, and consider selling if that's one of the major reasons for owning the land.
Regarding (1) - Perhaps it is possible to discuss this with the leaseholder of the hunting ground and reach a friendly compromise to coordinate timing of visits, or some other way to keep all parties content? I presume the property owner is defensive because he has a financial interest in keeping his leaseholder happy enough with the arrangement to renew the lease.
Regarding (3) - I don't know how you would accomplish this without substantial knowledge of the law yourself, or the assistance of an attorney to first of all verify your understanding of your contractual rights, and secondly, follow the appropriate steps to enforce the contract.
I get the impression he is not interested in selling a north side easement, at least not at a price your father would be willing to pay, so I only mention it in passing.
I do not foresee the landowner willing to negotiate at all at this point. The lease holder is forcing him to lock the access by threatening not to renew. This is substantial amount of money for the landowner. I also do not think the leaseholder
Has any incentive to work with me. We are direct competitors of the limited resources there. The sad thing is I would have been willing just to move my vehicle into a less conspicuous area.
I also do not believe the landowner has any reason to sell an easement on the North. The only chance of that occurring would have been at the purchase time. My father made a large error in this regard.
As far as not good access road on the south it is in a cattle pasture and it is not a problem. Does not require maintenance. We have four wheel drive trucks and tractor if necessary.
I really feel that a letter to the land owner from our attorney is going to nip this in the bud. But we will see.
Thanks again for your insights.
DA
Re: Access to landlocked timber blocked by landowner
Two things. The original lawyer may have been at the time the original agreement was signed, and certainly is now, in a conflict of interest.Devil's Advocate wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:32 pmddurrett896 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:01 amIn situations like this, where there is no compromise (old father and pregnant wife), all you can do it fight fire with fire. Tell him if you can't drive, you are turning it into a shooting range and invite everyone you know to come shoot. The deer will be gone, long gone!Devil's Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:39 am I spoke to the landowner and he stated that the person leasing the hunting ground did not want my vehicle on the north side of the timber because it affected the way the deer traveled.
Good one! I thought we may be doing our timber work (cutting lane thru timber) the next few weeks around 4 pm. May get the point across lol.
No seriously, heard from the closing attorney ( who represented both sides) and he thought we should get another attorney to draft a strongly worded letter. I believe we have a good legal case for enforcing the purchase agreement.
DA
Second, of you don't get what you (father) want, you (father) may well have a right of action against the original lawyer for making a mistake in not making the easement ironclad. It's not your father who made the mistake of not getting a easement. Your father obviously made it known to the lawyer he wanred full time access, ie an easement. But the lawyer, who may have been in a conflict of interest in representing both sides, didn't act on your father's intentions. So fault can be found on the lawyer's part.
This is not legal advice, etc.