detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

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mouses
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detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by mouses »

I'm trying to minimize my use of plastic and other non-recyclable items. Currently I'm trying to find laundry detergent that comes in recyclable (not including plastic) or biodegradable packaging.

Years ago one could buy laundry detergent that came in cardboard boxes, but now they all seem to coat either the inside or outside of the box with some plasticized stuff that makes it unacceptable for recycling. Even Seventh Generation is a fail with this one.

Does anyone know of such a product? Thanks.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (detergent).
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by livesoft »

A google search shows all kinds of recycling for plastic laundry detergent bottles. For instance, https://www.terracycle.com/en-US/brigades/tide

I know you said non-plastic, but plastic is recycle-able, isn't it?

Our curbside recycling program takes them and the caps.

It's amazing to me how little garbage we actually have nowadays. We set our recycling bin out every 2 weeks and our garbage bin out every 3 or 4 weeks. Even the compost pile doesn't get much waste. I now cut apples into quarters and eat everything but the seeds (5 to 10 per apple) and the stem. That is, there isn't even an apple core to compost.
Last edited by livesoft on Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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FriedFire
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by FriedFire »

Have you considered a DIY approach?

http://livesimply.me/2014/02/11/homemad ... detergent/
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by mouses »

livesoft wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:45 am A google search shows all kinds of recycling for plastic laundry detergent bottles. For instance, https://www.terracycle.com/en-US/brigades/tide

I know you said non-plastic, but plastic is recycle-able, isn't it?

Our curbside recycling program takes them and the caps.
There is a lot of waste involved in plastic even though it is currently often supposedly recyclable. Plus China has just stopped accepting a lot of it, so it's unclear how long it will be recyclable. And anything I can do to make oil, etc. a less viable industry, so much the better.

Plastic is really terrible for the environment. It chokes sea life, degrades into nano particles that can't be cleaned up but still do harm, lasts until the sun goes nova.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by mouses »

FriedFire wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:48 am Have you considered a DIY approach?

http://livesimply.me/2014/02/11/homemad ... detergent/
One of the ingredients appears to come in a plastic bottle.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by livesoft »

And even the microlint of polyester and nylon clothes end up floating in the oceans and in your lungs when you use a dryer or ruffle it when you put it on.

OTOH, oil is seeping out of cracks in the ocean floor all by itself.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by Fclevz »

I was going to suggest the Seventh Generation 'bottles' made out of recycled cardboard and newspaper. However, upon closer examination, it looks like the outer 'bottle' is only for shape and stability. The actual detergent is inside in a plastic pouch :oops:
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by whomever »

And even the microlint of polyester and nylon clothes end up floating ... in your lungs
Is that worse than cotton?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byssinosis

(I haven't heard of similar problems from mills handling synthetics, but that could be because OSHA exists now, and didn't in the heyday of cotton mills. Or maybe the suspect organisms don't grow on synthetics. Or maybe low enough doses don't matter for either.)
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by Veiled »

Nellie's comes in tins.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by likegarden »

I just looked, and Tide comes in a recyclable plastic bottle, has a 2 and triangle at bottom. So, what's the problem?
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by quantAndHold »

There’s a shop near my house that sells soap in bulk. Bring your own bottles. I live in one of those artisanal hipster neighborhoods, so I doubt you have access to a “refillable soap” store, but I know the local food coop has been selling soaps in bulk for at least 20 years.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by boglegirl »

FriedFire wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:48 am Have you considered a DIY approach?

http://livesimply.me/2014/02/11/homemad ... detergent/
I tried a couple of homemade recipes a few years ago, and my family's clothes were noticeably dingy after a while. These recipes use ingredients that would have been readily available to our great-grandmothers...I think that in the last 100 years, the R&D department at Procter & Gamble has figured out better ways to clean our clothes.

Modified to add: I think concern for the environment is great, but you just have to know there might be trade-offs. Like dingy clothes.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by mouses »

likegarden wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:37 am I just looked, and Tide comes in a recyclable plastic bottle, has a 2 and triangle at bottom. So, what's the problem?
See previous posts.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by mouses »

Veiled wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:26 am Nellie's comes in tins.
Thanks. That looks like the answer.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by Veiled »

mouses wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:37 pm
Veiled wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:26 am Nellie's comes in tins.
Thanks. That looks like the answer.
I can with complete honesty give Nellie's a five star rating. Used it for years. Doesn't have extra additives. Doesn't gunk up the clothes or the washer. Tins are useful for other storage needs.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by BC_Doc »

mouses wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:58 am
livesoft wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:45 am A google search shows all kinds of recycling for plastic laundry detergent bottles. For instance, https://www.terracycle.com/en-US/brigades/tide

I know you said non-plastic, but plastic is recycle-able, isn't it?

Our curbside recycling program takes them and the caps.
There is a lot of waste involved in plastic even though it is currently often supposedly recyclable. Plus China has just stopped accepting a lot of it, so it's unclear how long it will be recyclable. And anything I can do to make oil, etc. a less viable industry, so much the better.

Plastic is really terrible for the environment. It chokes sea life, degrades into nano particles that can't be cleaned up but still do harm, lasts until the sun goes nova.
Here’s a timely NPR article on China refusing plastic recycling:

https://www.npr.org/2017/12/09/56879738 ... eign-waste

Even if they were to accept the plastic, it seems terribly wasteful to be shipping it back across the Pacific.

I live on the west coast of Canada. It’s pretty depressing to witness so much plastic waste washing up on our otherwise pristine coastal areas.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by Pajamas »

I buy powdered detergent in boxes because of the machines I use to do laundry. I had not questioned the ability to recycle the boxes, but it seems that P&G claims that their Tide cardboard boxes are recyclable. It does depend on what is accepted for recycling locally.

https://tide.com/en-us/about-tide/susta ... /packaging

http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dsny/zerowas ... ents.shtml

I don't see such a problem with using plastic containers that are recyclable. You shouldn't look only at the recyclability; there are other factors such as energy use in manufacturing and shipping. For instance, plastic containers are much lighter than glass or metal containers and paper products require a huge amount of water for production and for recycling.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by livesoft »

mouses wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:58 am Plus China has just stopped accepting a lot of it, so it's unclear how long it will be recyclable. And anything I can do to make oil, etc. a less viable industry, so much the better.
This sounds like an outstanding business opportunity. Less competition from China for a homegrown plastic recycling business. If all plastics came from recycling that might put a dent the oil industry, too.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by Mudpuppy »

mouses wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:01 am
FriedFire wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:48 am Have you considered a DIY approach?

http://livesimply.me/2014/02/11/homemad ... detergent/
One of the ingredients appears to come in a plastic bottle.
You can replace the Dr. Bronner's Castille soap in that recipe with any laundry soap, even solid bar soaps (although you'll have to shave the bar to flakes then melt the flakes in water to make a liquid laundry soap). Fels Naptha and Zote are popular bar soaps for DIY laundry detergent. I do not know if they come packaged in boxes, wax paper, or plastic. You'll have to check those yourself.

Alternatively, switch from commercial liquid laundry detergent to commercial powdered laundry detergent, which frequently comes in boxes.

Edit: Fix typo
Last edited by Mudpuppy on Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by livesoft »

Markets in China actually sell "bar" laundry detergent. I have some that I use when traveling.
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Look online for "laundry detergent box" and see what comes up

Post by CaliJim »

All sorts of laundry detergent for sale @ Amazon in boxes.

Here's one:
https://www.amazon.com/Ajax-Low-Foam-Al ... B005NIJ6OK
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Re: Look online for "laundry detergent box" and see what comes up

Post by Epsilon Delta »

CaliJim wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:27 pm All sorts of laundry detergent for sale @ Amazon in boxes.

Here's one:
https://www.amazon.com/Ajax-Low-Foam-Al ... B005NIJ6OK
Many boxes are not simple cardboard. They contain one or more layers of plastic or foil to control moisture, seepage or whatever. The non-paper layer causes problems in reusing the paper and most recyclers go to some efforts to keep them out of their resource stream.
Aseptic drinks boxes are the worst, but put an ice cream box or Starbuck's cup in the compost pile. After the the paper degrades you are left with a plastic bag.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by MarvinK »

Veiled wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:43 pm
mouses wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:37 pm
Veiled wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:26 am Nellie's comes in tins.
Thanks. That looks like the answer.
I can with complete honesty give Nellie's a five star rating. Used it for years. Doesn't have extra additives. Doesn't gunk up the clothes or the washer. Tins are useful for other storage needs.
I also use Nellies. It really smooths my clothes.
With the tin, there is a thin plastic bag inside.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by mouses »

MarvinK wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:16 pm
Veiled wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:43 pm
mouses wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:37 pm
Veiled wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:26 am Nellie's comes in tins.
Thanks. That looks like the answer.
I can with complete honesty give Nellie's a five star rating. Used it for years. Doesn't have extra additives. Doesn't gunk up the clothes or the washer. Tins are useful for other storage needs.
I also use Nellies. It really smooths my clothes.
With the tin, there is a thin plastic bag inside.
Yes, I subsequently noticed that. I think it is better than the alternatives though.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by iamlucky13 »

If that's what is important to you, I'd suggested powdered detergent in the coated boxes as the current best effort you can make.
mouses wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:58 am Plastic is really terrible for the environment. It chokes sea life, degrades into nano particles that can't be cleaned up but still do harm, lasts until the sun goes nova.
I'm sure you're taking care to dispose of your plastics properly, in which case they do none of those things.

Certainly plastics do last a long time in the environment, but they do gradually break down. I've looked for better information on this in the past than the typical "I heard they last a million years" claims. Studies of plastic bottles collected from the sea bottom show degradation effects start to be observed after a year or 2, and by 15 years, they're generally starting to fall apart. It happens much faster at the surface due to UV exposure. I haven't found any studies yet clearly addressing the later stages of the decomposition, however.
BC_Doc wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:05 pm Even if they were to accept the plastic, it seems terribly wasteful to be shipping it back across the Pacific.
Not really. There's such a huge volume of empty containers that need re-positioning due to our trade imbalance that it's arguably a good use of the capacity. It's something like 1 in 6 containers being shipped are empty. I'd say the bigger concern should be what happens to it once it's arrives at its destination - is it actually recycled, and if so, does the facility that does the work do so in a responsible manner?

The Chinese waste import ban may end up being a good thing in the long run if it results in more domestic recycling, better pre-cleaning of materials sent to the recycling stream, and less landfill diversion in China. I haven't seen much clear discussion about China's motives, but it sounds like being a dumping ground for the world's waste is starting to become a really contentious issue for them.
likegarden wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:37 am I just looked, and Tide comes in a recyclable plastic bottle, has a 2 and triangle at bottom. So, what's the problem?
Milk jugs are also RIN 2, and this is actually one of the more recyclable grades of plastic. I gather it's what Trex uses for their composite lumber, which of course, far outlasts regular lumber (doesn't look as good though, in my opinion), reducing demand for cedar or more exotic weather resistant woods and treated lumber.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by retiredjg »

Fclevz wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:33 am I was going to suggest the Seventh Generation 'bottles' made out of recycled cardboard and newspaper. However, upon closer examination, it looks like the outer 'bottle' is only for shape and stability. The actual detergent is inside in a plastic pouch :oops:
The outside cardboard mold can be recycled with paper. The inside plastic pouch can be recycled with plastic grocery bags (or so it says on the ones I buy).

mouses, it appears that recycling plastic is a problem where you live? There was an NPR article about that just yesterday.

What about the plastic grocery bags? That seems like it might be pretty universal.

I've used nothing but Seventh Generation since this packaging came out.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by Thrifty Femme »

Country Save.
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Re: detergent without non-recyclable packaging?

Post by telemark »

Arm and Hammer powdered detergent comes in plain cardboard boxes. I buy it at the local Smiths grocery.
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