Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

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wassabi
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by wassabi » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:52 am

Does anyone have experience selling bitcoin and filing the capital gains?

As an example:

Is it as simple as filling out a tax form that you bought for 1BTC for $1000 through some source and sold 1 BTC for $5000 for a capital gain of $4000?

What if you spent .5 of the 1 BTC and can no longer account for it? Therefore, you bought 1 BTC for $1000 but sold .5 BTC for $2500. My guess is you would you just do the math on the capital gain without having to account for the other .5 BTC because the IRS is not interested in how you acquired or spent BTC but only in at what price you acquired them and at what price you are selling them because you may never sell them if you treat them like currency and instead spend them on goods.

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tadamsmar
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by tadamsmar » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:00 am

Draw them down for consumption during retirement. Or pass them to your heirs and let them get the stepped up basis.

In other words, stay the course! :twisted:

Or you could rebalance into another cryptocurrency and treat it as an un-taxed 1031 exchange. But I would research the heck out of that before I assumed it was legal tax avoidance.

RRAAYY3
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by RRAAYY3 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:05 pm

queso wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:36 am
RRAAYY3 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:10 am
“Should I sell this gimmick and guarantee a ridiculous return on investment or should I be greedy and risk losing once the inevitable bubble bursts?”

Tough decision
lol...yeah, when you put it like that.. I think I'll give it a few days and see what the CBOE futures do to the price. I may move some off my Trezor and into an online wallet/exchange so I can be ready to pull the plug.
in my opinion - you already won, big time. since it's not necessarily income you need - treat yourself to a nice vacation or new toy

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David Jay
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by David Jay » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:21 pm

Call_Me_Op wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:55 am
David Jay wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:50 pm
Call_Me_Op wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:28 am
Interesting. A young coworker of mine purchased $7k in Bitcoin in (I believe) 2014 and it is now worth close to $250k. As far as I know, he plans to let it ride.

Gambling does, on occasion, pay off.
A reminder that it hasn't paid off yet...
It has for some - those who have sold recently.
I was referring specifically to your co-worker
Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future - Niels Bohr | To get the "risk premium", you really do have to take the risk - nisiprius

MittensMoney
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by MittensMoney » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:38 pm

I don't think short-term or long-term gains apply to Bitcoin, it's viewed as property and not an investment. I think you pay income tax regardless of how long you've held, no?

WanderingDoc
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by WanderingDoc » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:43 pm

RRAAYY3 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:05 pm
queso wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:36 am
RRAAYY3 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:10 am
“Should I sell this gimmick and guarantee a ridiculous return on investment or should I be greedy and risk losing once the inevitable bubble bursts?”

Tough decision
lol...yeah, when you put it like that.. I think I'll give it a few days and see what the CBOE futures do to the price. I may move some off my Trezor and into an online wallet/exchange so I can be ready to pull the plug.
in my opinion - you already won, big time. since it's not necessarily income you need - treat yourself to a nice vacation or new toy
How do you like your Trezor? I am looking to order either the Trezor or Ledger to hold some of my Bitcoin. Getting a bit nervous just holding it on coinbase.
One day it suddenly dawned on me that I had won the real estate lottery. | I'm not looking to get rich quickly. I'm not looking to get rich slowly. I'm looking to get rich for sure.

Momus
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by Momus » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:45 pm

Sell $7700 worth, get 10% profit. Keep the remaining bitcoin, maybe it will bust to $1000 again and maybe it will soar to infinity... Keep it as an experiment or not... sell it all...

Either way, you get your principal back and get to "play" with it.

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curiouskitty
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by curiouskitty » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:58 pm

Hold out for $20k. At this rate, its only a few months away :beer

queso
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by queso » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:07 pm

WanderingDoc wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:43 pm
RRAAYY3 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:05 pm
queso wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:36 am
RRAAYY3 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:10 am
“Should I sell this gimmick and guarantee a ridiculous return on investment or should I be greedy and risk losing once the inevitable bubble bursts?”

Tough decision
lol...yeah, when you put it like that.. I think I'll give it a few days and see what the CBOE futures do to the price. I may move some off my Trezor and into an online wallet/exchange so I can be ready to pull the plug.
in my opinion - you already won, big time. since it's not necessarily income you need - treat yourself to a nice vacation or new toy
How do you like your Trezor? I am looking to order either the Trezor or Ledger to hold some of my Bitcoin. Getting a bit nervous just holding it on coinbase.
It's kind of slick actually. I have never used a Ledger so I can't compare the two, but the Trezor is pretty easy to use once you get the hang of it. I can send BTC, ETH, LTC and BTG (BTG from the beta Trezor site since they just started supporting it) to and from Coinbase relatively easily (just cut and paste the addresses and enter my two factor authentication code). I guess one drawback is if you want to hold Dogecoin or some of the other cryptos that aren't quite as mainstream. Trezor only supports a few. I've always wanted Dogecoin, but never looked into what I would need to do to buy it. Nothing to do with the currency itself...I just like Shibas. So dog. Much furry. Wow! :happy

queso
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by queso » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:24 pm

Wow..punching through 14k. OP - did you sell? :)

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White Coat Investor
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by White Coat Investor » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:26 pm

Up 100% in the last month. Not sure what sell signal you're waiting for. What's that saying about pigs and hogs?

Congrats to all on their successful speculation.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

neofight
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by neofight » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:40 pm

wassabi wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:52 am
Is it as simple as filling out a tax form that you bought for 1BTC for $1000 through some source and sold 1 BTC for $5000 for a capital gain of $4000?
Yes, it is as simple as that - IRS form 8949, "Sale and Other Dispositions of Capital Assets".
wassabi wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:52 am
What if you spent .5 of the 1 BTC and can no longer account for it? Therefore, you bought 1 BTC for $1000 but sold .5 BTC for $2500. My guess is you would you just do the math on the capital gain without having to account for the other .5 BTC because the IRS is not interested in how you acquired or spent BTC but only in at what price you acquired them and at what price you are selling them because you may never sell them if you treat them like currency and instead spend them on goods.
I would advise picking an approach and sticking to it. For example, if you report cost basis and sale price of BTC when sold, then you really (IMHO) should treat a purchase of something via BTC as a sale of the asset.

In your example, you bought 1BTC for 1k, and sold 0.5BTC for 2.5k. So your cost basis was $500, your sale price was $2500, your gain was $2000, and you still happen to have 0.5BTC (lucky you!).

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TimeRunner
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by TimeRunner » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:56 pm

With apologies to Phil Edwards, "You should have sold it an hour ago." :wink:
One cannot enlighten the unconscious. | Endurance athletes are the Bogleheads of sports. | "I like people - I just don't want to be around 'em." - Russell Gordy

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Toons
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by Toons » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:10 pm

If you decide to Sell,,
Don't look back :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

queso
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by queso » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:24 pm

Toons wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:10 pm
If you decide to Sell,,
Don't look back :happy
14,400. lol. This is why I buy index funds. I hate this crap.. :happy

mffl
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by mffl » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:40 pm

Long time lurker, first time poster.

According to this, BTC is affected by short/long term capital gains rules -- https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspecu ... 467611e3d8

I'm not a Bitcoin fan, but with such a low percentage of your portfolio at risk, I think I'd wait out the long term capital gains window. I'd think that the expected after tax return of your investment would be higher if you did that, as the assumption probably ought to be that the current value of BTC is the fair market value, and who are we to say otherwise?

But then again, I'm loathe to pay taxes that I don't have to, which perhaps biases my opinion. I also detest BTC, as it seems to be primarily a way to pay for illicit activities and hold people's files for ransom. Also, I'm probably just mad that I spent a bunch of time messing with BTC in 2009 when it was like $0.01 and got bored and dropped it.

Anyway, no, I wouldn't invest in BTC today if I had $21k in cash to invest. But I probably would if the offer was $16k cash now, or $21k worth of BTC that couldn't be sold for 7 months. As long as it's a small portion of my portfolio, the tax savings seem to be a fair compensation for the (admittedly excessive) risk, given that I think the EMH applies to Bitcoin as well as it does AAPL or VTI.

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bottlecap
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by bottlecap » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:07 pm

Who the hill knows?

You bet $7k on "investment" I’m guessing you know very little about.

You’ve got gamble in you. Why not ride it out?

You know, as a "learning process."

JT

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MoneyJungle
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by MoneyJungle » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:33 am

Since it's mentally-accounted for as "play money" why not just hold indefinitely as a contingency against the extreme tail outcome where it becomes THE real money?

I make no warrant to know what I'm talking about. I agree with akpataego.

With your implied net worth of $1.4 mil, you're in a nice position either way.
"The avoidance of taxes is the only intellectual pursuit that still carries any reward." -- JM Keynes

queso
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by queso » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:21 am

Couldn't do it.. still holding. :happy

lolbatross
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by lolbatross » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:33 am

queso wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:21 am
Couldn't do it.. still holding. :happy
In the bitcoin community there is a meme "HODL" from a famous post. The spirit of it is essentially "stay the course". Its a fascinating overlap in philosophy among two communities with vastly different strategies. Since you seem to have adopted some of both strategies perhaps you should do a minor re-balance so you remain more boglehead than bitcoin.

queso
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by queso » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:36 am

lolbatross wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:33 am
queso wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:21 am
Couldn't do it.. still holding. :happy
In the bitcoin community there is a meme "HODL" from a famous post. The spirit of it is essentially "stay the course". Its a fascinating overlap in philosophy among two communities with vastly different strategies. Since you seem to have adopted some of both strategies perhaps you should do a minor re-balance so you remain more boglehead than bitcoin.
There's a coin for that too - https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/hodlcoin/

This is so ridiculous all I can do is lol at it. I'm thinking about pulling my original investment out and just playing with the cream, but as all BH's know the problem with this stuff is that nobody knows when to pull out so you end up holding well past the crash. Oh well, if I'm lucky maybe I can sell on the dead cat bounce. :happy

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HomerJ
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by HomerJ » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:45 am

Valuethinker wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:51 pm
You have not made money at the casino until you have taken some off the table.
This.

Way too many people are walking into the bitcoin casino with no idea how to manage their bankroll.

And that's the MOST important part of gambling. More than the actual play at the table.

smitcat
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by smitcat » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:53 am

Interesting read on Bitcoin types of 'products'....

http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/07/technol ... oplead-dom

jb1
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by jb1 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:25 pm

I sold half of mine today. Made enough to cover my original investment. Way too much new money coming in. I had 3 friends all sign up and buy today. Thats my sign to leave for a while.

barnaclebob
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by barnaclebob » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:29 pm

most bitcoin markets are currently locked up. There was a quick surge to 19.5k followed by a fall to about 15k. Wait, it looks like trading literally opened back up around 15.5k

queso
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by queso » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:29 pm

jb1 wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:25 pm
I sold half of mine today. Made enough to cover my original investment. Way too much new money coming in. I had 3 friends all sign up and buy today. Thats my sign to leave for a while.
Nice! I missed the $19k+ run up or I might have been tempted to let some go at that point. Dropped 20% since then so I'm back in "HODL" territory.

jb1
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by jb1 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:34 pm

queso wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:29 pm
jb1 wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:25 pm
I sold half of mine today. Made enough to cover my original investment. Way too much new money coming in. I had 3 friends all sign up and buy today. Thats my sign to leave for a while.
Nice! I missed the $19k+ run up or I might have been tempted to let some go at that point. Dropped 20% since then so I'm back in "HODL" territory.
if only ethereum would do something now..

fatlever
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by fatlever » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:48 pm

queso wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:29 pm
jb1 wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:25 pm
I sold half of mine today. Made enough to cover my original investment. Way too much new money coming in. I had 3 friends all sign up and buy today. Thats my sign to leave for a while.
Nice! I missed the $19k+ run up or I might have been tempted to let some go at that point. Dropped 20% since then so I'm back in "HODL" territory.

This is absolute mania. I am glad I have a few timelocked and only release every year. Watching GDAX is like Star Wars right now. Should sell some but the Koreans are buying at $19K+. If the Chinese exchanges were not banned I think it'd be like $50K right now

queso
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by queso » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:23 pm

jb1 wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:34 pm
queso wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:29 pm
jb1 wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:25 pm
I sold half of mine today. Made enough to cover my original investment. Way too much new money coming in. I had 3 friends all sign up and buy today. Thats my sign to leave for a while.
Nice! I missed the $19k+ run up or I might have been tempted to let some go at that point. Dropped 20% since then so I'm back in "HODL" territory.
if only ethereum would do something now..
No kidding... or Litecoin.

queso
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by queso » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:25 pm

fatlever wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:48 pm
queso wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:29 pm
jb1 wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:25 pm
I sold half of mine today. Made enough to cover my original investment. Way too much new money coming in. I had 3 friends all sign up and buy today. Thats my sign to leave for a while.
Nice! I missed the $19k+ run up or I might have been tempted to let some go at that point. Dropped 20% since then so I'm back in "HODL" territory.

This is absolute mania. I am glad I have a few timelocked and only release every year. Watching GDAX is like Star Wars right now. Should sell some but the Koreans are buying at $19K+. If the Chinese exchanges were not banned I think it'd be like $50K right now
I can tell it's going crazy when Coinbase starts locking up and throwing error messages. Then there is either really good news or really bad news (or one quickly followed by the other!). I've started bringing my Trezor with me to the office in case I need to hurry up and dump. Sword of Damocles and all that. :happy

queso
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by queso » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:30 pm

queso wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:25 pm
fatlever wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:48 pm
queso wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:29 pm
jb1 wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:25 pm
I sold half of mine today. Made enough to cover my original investment. Way too much new money coming in. I had 3 friends all sign up and buy today. Thats my sign to leave for a while.
Nice! I missed the $19k+ run up or I might have been tempted to let some go at that point. Dropped 20% since then so I'm back in "HODL" territory.

This is absolute mania. I am glad I have a few timelocked and only release every year. Watching GDAX is like Star Wars right now. Should sell some but the Koreans are buying at $19K+. If the Chinese exchanges were not banned I think it'd be like $50K right now
I can tell it's going crazy when Coinbase starts locking up and throwing error messages. Then there is either really good news or really bad news (or one quickly followed by the other!). I've started bringing my Trezor with me to the office in case I need to hurry up and dump. Sword of Damocles and all that. :happy
ok, I can't take it. I'm unloading my original position so at least I'm back to even if it comes tumbling down (it's more than doubled). I have to keep my Ethereum in play though. I have my eye on Kitty #8675309 and she's a Gen 4 Good Starter Cat with a snappy cooldown post-breeding. Still....can't....believe....this....shizzle...is...real.. - https://kotaku.com/people-are-spending- ... 1821050218

The opening sentence of the article made me lol for a solid minute. I think my family thinks I have totally lost it. "CryptoKitties lets you exchange a made-up thing called Ethereum for fake cats." *mic drop*

Sometimes it takes someone else putting it into words for the ridiculousness of it all to sink in.

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ruralavalon
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by ruralavalon » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:34 am

kotaku wrote:CryptoKitties lets you exchange a made-up thing called Ethereum for fake cats.
Hilarious :D , what a great way to start the day.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

GoldenFinch
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by GoldenFinch » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:45 am

Yesterday was a good day.

coalcracker
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by coalcracker » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:10 am

OP UPDATE:

I have completely sold my bitcoin and ethereum in several "lots" over the course of this week (via Coinbase). The end value deposited into my checking account was $25,063 on a $7,000 initial investment, for a 258% ROI since July.

GoldenFinch
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by GoldenFinch » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:22 am

coalcracker wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:10 am
OP UPDATE:

I have completely sold my bitcoin and ethereum in several "lots" over the course of this week (via Coinbase). The end value deposited into my checking account was $25,063 on a $7,000 initial investment, for a 258% ROI since July.
:beer

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bottlecap
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by bottlecap » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:23 am

Now. Right now.

smitcat
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by smitcat » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:29 am

coalcracker wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:10 am
OP UPDATE:

I have completely sold my bitcoin and ethereum in several "lots" over the course of this week (via Coinbase). The end value deposited into my checking account was $25,063 on a $7,000 initial investment, for a 258% ROI since July.
Great move - congratulations , don't look back.

queso
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by queso » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:45 am

A funny thing happened on my way to the exchange... I was waiting for the transfer from my Trezor to the exchange to go through and fell asleep so didn't sell anything last night. Woke up today and it had dropped down in the 14k range. *sigh*. Waited until a few minutes ago and let my original investment go @ $16337.89/BTC. I'll let the remainder ride in BTC, ETH, LTC and BTG, but at least now I am not playing with any of my own money.

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ruralavalon
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by ruralavalon » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:48 am

coalcracker wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:10 am
OP UPDATE:

I have completely sold my bitcoin and ethereum in several "lots" over the course of this week (via Coinbase). The end value deposited into my checking account was $25,063 on a $7,000 initial investment, for a 258% ROI since July.
A good move in my opinion :) :) :) .
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

queso
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by queso » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:04 am

Update. Since the sale to reclaim my initial outlay on 12/8 my remaining BTC, ETC and LTC have now gained so much that my balance is back where it was on 12/8. :shock:

GoldenFinch
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Re: Want to sell my Bitcoin, but when?

Post by GoldenFinch » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:30 pm

queso wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:04 am
Update. Since the sale to reclaim my initial outlay on 12/8 my remaining BTC, ETC and LTC have now gained so much that my balance is back where it was on 12/8. :shock:
Kinda like winning the lottery! :moneybag

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