Beefy Brothy Stocky Thing Advice

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Beefy Brothy Stocky Thing Advice

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:19 pm

This evening I find myself in possession of:

1 veal tail, about 1.5 pounds, skinned, trimmed, cut up, and frozen, which I bought with two others on sale for cheap. I cooked the other two separately, and although nothing came out bad (I tried an oxtail recipe with the first but the meat wasn't strongly flavored enough to stand up to it, and a simple stew with the second), nothing came out especially good, either. I still have some of the frozen gelatinous veal stock from the second's remouillage.

1/2, approximately, cattle hoof, sliced and frozen, purchased to add gelatin to slow-cooked dishes. I already used up the first half of the hoof. It works great.

1/2 pound raw beef chuck roast, mostly muscle not fat (it's the thin end of a chuck tender - which they aren't - also called a chuck eye or chuck roll roast, that I don't want to use in the main recipe), fresh.

I've made beef stock before, infrequently. I make chicken stock often.

What say I use all three of these items to make a beefy brothy stocky thing? I already know better than to put in salt.

Any advice?

PJW

heyyou
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Re: Beefy Brothy Stocky Thing Advice

Post by heyyou » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:56 pm

Note that browned meat has richer flavor than boiled-only meat if both had no spices. I'm out of my league for advising about searing in a skillet versus broiling, in order to brown the ingredients before adding them, and the pan drippings, to the slow cooker.

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Beefy Brothy Stocky Thing Advice

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:37 am

Normally you'll want some vegetables in there as well. There are a number of recipes for stock out there. Here's one from Alton Brown.

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/brow ... pe-1912554

Edit: Here's one that might work better for your ingredients. Also Alton Brown:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alto ... pe-1938212
Last edited by Earl Lemongrab on Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mak1277
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Re: Beefy Brothy Stocky Thing Advice

Post by mak1277 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:39 am

I advise you to find a food/cooking forum!

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Beefy Brothy Stocky Thing Advice

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:46 am

I was mentioning to my sister over the holiday that things have changed for recipes. In the old days, you'd have a few cookbooks and would look up things you wanted to make. Now you can search the web and get dozens of variations. That can lead to the dreaded analysis paralysis.
This week's fortune cookie: "You will do well to expand your horizons." Ow. Passive-aggressive and vaguely ominous.

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Hyperborea
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Re: Beefy Brothy Stocky Thing Advice

Post by Hyperborea » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:52 am

Beef stock making is a serious all day affair. You have to start out by roasting the beef bones and the carrots, celery, onions for about an hour or so. That's followed by simmering for many hours along with a bouquet garni. You then strain it off. Because it's such a long process I make a large batch once a year. From that batch I make stock cubes (frozen stock for adding to pan sauces), a semi demi-glace sauce (Bourdain's recipe), and a batch of French onion soup on another day (the onion prep is another long process).

bhsince87
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Re: Beefy Brothy Stocky Thing Advice

Post by bhsince87 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:07 pm

It's a little light on the meat, IMO, but I'd say go for it. The whole point of using veal is to impart gelatin without adding much flavor. Adding the chuck scraps should help.

As other's have mentioned, it's best to brown it first. I'd just sear everything in the stockpot and let the brown bits stick to the bottom. You might get better results by roasting the tail in the oven, though. I can't envision the size.

I'd also add an onion, cut in half, some carrots, and some celery (leaves are great for this). They can be browned too, but I usually skip that step.

Also add a table spoon or so of vinegar to help break down the bones, and 8-10 peppercorns.

I used to make stock low and slow for many hours (even 2-3 days), and that works great, especially with bones. But for the past few years, I've made it in a pressure cooker. 2-3 hours will do the trick there.
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mainiac
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Re: Beefy Brothy Stocky Thing Advice

Post by mainiac » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:09 pm


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Pete12
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Re: Beefy Brothy Stocky Thing Advice

Post by Pete12 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:17 am

mainiac wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:09 pm
http://betterthanbouillon.com/
+1000

This stuff is a godsend in our kitchen- it’s in constant use at this time of year for soups, stews, gravies etc. It has a great flavor with none of the “tinny” notes of canned broths. Also a fraction of the cost per serving, especially when purchased at Costco.

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Tamarind
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Re: Beefy Brothy Stocky Thing Advice

Post by Tamarind » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:28 am

Needs more bone, IMO, to actually get something that'll taste like good broth. If you buy some beef bones, roast them first, then boil. You probably won't need both the veal and the hoof unless your goal is for the thing to set solid.

Just finished cooking down my turkey carcass and two chicken carcasses for the annual bird soup. Mmmmm.

Most of the year I use and enjoy "better than bullion". But homemade is fun and delicious, especially when you have some extra time around the holidays.

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Beefy Brothy Stocky Thing Advice

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:54 pm

mainiac wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:09 pm
http://betterthanbouillon.com/
Thanks. I'm aware of the product but I don't know of any store that will swap what I already own one-for-one for it. I intend to usefully prepare what I have now.
PJW

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Beefy Brothy Stocky Thing Advice

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:05 pm

Thanks, particularly to bhsince87, Tamarind, and Hyperborea, but also to everybody else who responded.

One of you says more meat, and another says more bone but not necessarily including the remainder of the hoof.

I think I'll split the difference, and go with what I have now, of course with appropriate aromatics and with pre-roasting. I'll let everybody know how it turns out.

Because I was dithering, the nice fresh chuck scraps are now frozen. I can thaw them, and the rest, in the refrigerator overnight, which I'll probably time for a Saturday - Sunday (24-hour) fully-attended simmer in the oven.

In case anybody is interested, the braise of the non-scrap most-of-the chuck roast came out great.

PJW

Teague
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Re: Beefy Brothy Stocky Thing Advice

Post by Teague » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:44 pm

mainiac wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:09 pm
http://betterthanbouillon.com/
That stuff is quite good for what it is, and the best instant broth concentrate I've found. But what PJW is talking about is leagues better, what with the attention to gelatin content, traditional stock making technique, and so on. Just a different gastronomic universe really.
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leftcoaster
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Re: Beefy Brothy Stocky Thing Advice

Post by leftcoaster » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:21 am

Hyperborea wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:52 am
Beef stock making is a serious all day affair. You have to start out by roasting the beef bones and the carrots, celery, onions for about an hour or so. That's followed by simmering for many hours along with a bouquet garni. You then strain it off. Because it's such a long process I make a large batch once a year. From that batch I make stock cubes (frozen stock for adding to pan sauces), a semi demi-glace sauce (Bourdain's recipe), and a batch of French onion soup on another day (the onion prep is another long process).
Much faster with a pressure cooker

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Hyperborea
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Re: Beefy Brothy Stocky Thing Advice

Post by Hyperborea » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:09 pm

leftcoaster wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:21 am
Hyperborea wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:52 am
Beef stock making is a serious all day affair. You have to start out by roasting the beef bones and the carrots, celery, onions for about an hour or so. That's followed by simmering for many hours along with a bouquet garni. You then strain it off. Because it's such a long process I make a large batch once a year. From that batch I make stock cubes (frozen stock for adding to pan sauces), a semi demi-glace sauce (Bourdain's recipe), and a batch of French onion soup on another day (the onion prep is another long process).
Much faster with a pressure cooker
Probably so, seems like a good way to make a small batch. However, our stock pot is about 4x the size of the pressure cooker so I would have to run multiple batches in a pressure cooker. Once it's in the stock pot I don't have to do much during the simmer except skim the scum at the beginning and then check the water level every so often. I just arrange it that I'm home during the day and do something else most of the time.

bhsince87
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Re: Beefy Brothy Stocky Thing Advice

Post by bhsince87 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:19 pm

leftcoaster wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:21 am
Hyperborea wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:52 am
Beef stock making is a serious all day affair. You have to start out by roasting the beef bones and the carrots, celery, onions for about an hour or so. That's followed by simmering for many hours along with a bouquet garni. You then strain it off. Because it's such a long process I make a large batch once a year. From that batch I make stock cubes (frozen stock for adding to pan sauces), a semi demi-glace sauce (Bourdain's recipe), and a batch of French onion soup on another day (the onion prep is another long process).
Much faster with a pressure cooker

Pressure cooker is great for a beef stock that is more meat based than bone based. Beef bones really benefit from the time factor and low and slow for days.

But I personally don't do much bone stock anymore, so I use a pressure cooker most the time.
BH87

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