POAs vs brokerage reimbursement guarantees

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tadamsmar
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POAs vs brokerage reimbursement guarantees

Post by tadamsmar » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:47 pm

My POA document (prepared by a lawyer) grants all the rights that I have, including the right to recover and change my passwords.

But brokerage accounts seem to void their reimbursement guarantees if I share my passwords. For example:

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/help/S ... ontent.jsp

http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/nn/ ... antee.html

https://www.fidelity.com/security/custo ... -guarantee

There seems to be a legal disconnect.
Last edited by tadamsmar on Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Raladic
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Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:56 pm

Re: POAs vs brokerage reimbursement guarantees

Post by Raladic » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:00 pm

The right to recover your password sounds different to sharing your password to me?

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tadamsmar
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Re: POAs vs brokerage reimbursement guarantees

Post by tadamsmar » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:56 pm

Raladic wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:00 pm
The right to recover your password sounds different to sharing your password to me?
The POA says that I grant all the access rights I have, including changing and recovering passwords.

I should have spell it out more clearly.

marcopolo
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:22 am

Re: POAs vs brokerage reimbursement guarantees

Post by marcopolo » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:08 pm

tadamsmar wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:47 pm
My POA document (prepared by a lawyer) grants all the rights that I have, including the right to recover and change my passwords.

But brokerage accounts seem to void their reimbursement guarantees if I share my passwords. For example:

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/help/S ... ontent.jsp

http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/nn/ ... antee.html

https://www.fidelity.com/security/custo ... -guarantee

There seems to be a legal disconnect.



I am not a lawyer, but the way i read the Fidelity language on this is that you do not void the guarantee, but that the person you give your password to is considered to have your consent. If they take all your money, you have no recourse. But, I would think it would still protect you in the case an unrelated party hacked in and stole your accounts. Perhaps some posters legal background could comment.

From the Fidelity link:

If you grant authority to, or share your Fidelity account access credentials or information with, any persons or entities, their activity will be considered authorized by you. Losses of cash or securities transferred to outside accounts that are beneficially owned by you are not covered by this guarantee. Also not covered is any activity by an employer/plan administrator, financial intermediary, or third-party who is authorized by you to access your data (or who received your data as a result of that access), or with whom you've shared your username, password, or account number, or from malware or a breach of security that affects the systems of any of those parties.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

marcopolo
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:22 am

Re: POAs vs brokerage reimbursement guarantees

Post by marcopolo » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:15 pm

marcopolo wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:08 pm
tadamsmar wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:47 pm
My POA document (prepared by a lawyer) grants all the rights that I have, including the right to recover and change my passwords.

But brokerage accounts seem to void their reimbursement guarantees if I share my passwords. For example:

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/help/S ... ontent.jsp

http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/nn/ ... antee.html

https://www.fidelity.com/security/custo ... -guarantee

There seems to be a legal disconnect.



I am not a lawyer, but the way i read the Fidelity language on this is that you do not void the guarantee, but that the person you give your password to is considered to have your consent. If they take all your money, you have no recourse. But, I would think it would still protect you in the case an unrelated party hacked in and stole your accounts. Perhaps some posters legal background could comment.

Having said that, I still don't share my password.

From the Fidelity link:

If you grant authority to, or share your Fidelity account access credentials or information with, any persons or entities, their activity will be considered authorized by you. Losses of cash or securities transferred to outside accounts that are beneficially owned by you are not covered by this guarantee. Also not covered is any activity by an employer/plan administrator, financial intermediary, or third-party who is authorized by you to access your data (or who received your data as a result of that access), or with whom you've shared your username, password, or account number, or from malware or a breach of security that affects the systems of any of those parties.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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tadamsmar
Posts: 7433
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: POAs vs brokerage reimbursement guarantees

Post by tadamsmar » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:48 am

marcopolo wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:15 pm
marcopolo wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:08 pm
tadamsmar wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:47 pm
My POA document (prepared by a lawyer) grants all the rights that I have, including the right to recover and change my passwords.

But brokerage accounts seem to void their reimbursement guarantees if I share my passwords. For example:

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/help/S ... ontent.jsp

http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/nn/ ... antee.html

https://www.fidelity.com/security/custo ... -guarantee

There seems to be a legal disconnect.



I am not a lawyer, but the way i read the Fidelity language on this is that you do not void the guarantee, but that the person you give your password to is considered to have your consent. If they take all your money, you have no recourse. But, I would think it would still protect you in the case an unrelated party hacked in and stole your accounts. Perhaps some posters legal background could comment.

Having said that, I still don't share my password.

From the Fidelity link:

If you grant authority to, or share your Fidelity account access credentials or information with, any persons or entities, their activity will be considered authorized by you. Losses of cash or securities transferred to outside accounts that are beneficially owned by you are not covered by this guarantee. Also not covered is any activity by an employer/plan administrator, financial intermediary, or third-party who is authorized by you to access your data (or who received your data as a result of that access), or with whom you've shared your username, password, or account number, or from malware or a breach of security that affects the systems of any of those parties.
Read the bolded parts above. Malware on a third-party's computer is not covered, period. Malware on your personal computer is covered if you are not negligent. I think the whole point in these agreements is that you don't have to get perfect security results on your computer to be covered. But any breach on the POA's computer is not covered. I think this is a valid reading, but I am not sure what Fidelity would do or what would come of a civil court case or an SEC review.

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