problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

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my name
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problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by my name » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:37 am

Your thoughts are appreciated.

I know this is early. This new fund has no info available as it is under a month old.

However. I invested just over $200k in the admiral fund. Today in my funds overview, I see a negative change. The announced price was $25, today the share price is $24.84, the value is down and less at $199k. Yet, I cannot see any info about the fund.

Is it normal for a new fund to post changes but without any backup data on the holdings and performance? I expected the month wait for info being posted. What I did not expect was the display of changes to the value.
Last edited by my name on Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

AlohaJoe
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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by AlohaJoe » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:40 am

my name wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:37 am
Yet, I cannot see any info about the fund.

So I've lost a bit of money. Is this a normal start for a new fund?
Yes, it is normal. Why wouldn't it be?

What "info about the fund" are you looking for? Vanguard released a detailed prospectus. What isn't in there that you're interested about?

my name
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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by my name » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:48 am

The prospectus is just strategy and objectives.

Jags4186
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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by Jags4186 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:05 am

my name wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:48 am
The prospectus is just strategy and objectives.
Despite what many wish for there is no fund whose chart looks like a straight line going up and to the right.

The fund is down because in the last month global equities of moved down slightly and the 10 year treasury has moved from 2.3% yield to 2.4% yield causing bonds to drop in value.

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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by bertilak » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:07 am

my name wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:48 am
The prospectus is just strategy and objectives.
Is this what you are looking for?
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/ ... IntExt=INT
Last edited by bertilak on Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by AlohaJoe » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:08 am

my name wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:48 am
The prospectus is just strategy and objectives.
I asked what additional information you are looking for. Why didn't you answer the question?

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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:17 am

my name wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:48 am
The prospectus is just strategy and objectives.
JP Morgan when asked about the market responded; “it will fluctuate”! This investment will be no different from the response given almost 100 years ago.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by oldcomputerguy » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:18 am

my name wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:37 am
So I've lost a bit of money. Is this a normal start for a new fund?
I don't know about whether it's normal for a new fund, but I would say that the described drop (0.6%) isn't unusual at all, for any investment in the market.
Anybody know why there's a 20-pound frozen turkey up in the light grid?

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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by my name » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:34 am

bertilak wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:07 am
Is this what you are looking for?
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/ ... IntExt=INT
I already have that. And it clearly shows no activity info. My post says there is no info available (holdings, performance), while displaying the fund changes.

My question asking if this is normal is not about how the market goes up and down :!: - but about the display of activity without the back-up info causing that activity.

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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by my name » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:41 am

Jags4186 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:05 am
my name wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:48 am
The prospectus is just strategy and objectives.
The fund is down because in the last month global equities of moved down slightly and the 10 year treasury has moved from 2.3% yield to 2.4% yield causing bonds to drop in value.
This sentence is helpful. Thank you. In addition, my post was more about how a new fund posts changes but without any backup data on the holdings and performance. Wondering if that is normal. I expected the month wait for info being posted. What I did not expect was the display of changes to the value.
Last edited by my name on Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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oldcomputerguy
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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by oldcomputerguy » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:47 am

my name wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:34 am
I already have that. And it clearly shows no activity info. My post says there is no info available (holdings, performance), while displaying the fund changes.

My question asking if this is normal is not about how the market goes up and down :!: - but about the display of activity without the back-up info causing that activity.
Apologies, I (like I'm sure many here) interpreted your question as worded as asking whether the drop was normal.

If I were to guess, I'd say that yes, it's not earth-shatteringly unusual for there to be some start-up bumps in reporting. But I have no personal knowledge on which to base that, it's just a guess.
Anybody know why there's a 20-pound frozen turkey up in the light grid?

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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by saltycaper » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:53 am

my name wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:34 am

My question asking if this is normal is not about how the market goes up and down :!: - but about the display of activity without the back-up info causing that activity.
Well, even info on the Vanguard website for well-established funds doesn't indicate what caused the performance. If you just mean when is Vanguard going to provide the sort of info that appears on the "Portfolio and Management" page for that fund, such as a list of holdings, sector breakdown, country breakdown, etc., you could just send them an email and ask. I think it's normal for it to take some time for that information to be posted.
"I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said." --Alan Greenspan

my name
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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by my name » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:56 am

oldcomputerguy wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:47 am
Apologies, I (like I'm sure many here) interpreted your question as worded as asking whether the drop was normal.
You are right. I changed my original post to be more clear, "Is it normal for a new fund to post changes but without any backup data on the holdings and performance? I expected the month wait for info being posted. What I did not expect was the display of changes to the value."

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saltycaper
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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by saltycaper » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:58 am

If this fund was launched last month, I would guess it will be until the end of the quarter before info is posted. That seems to be when those pages get updated.
"I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said." --Alan Greenspan

my name
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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by my name » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:02 am

saltycaper wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:58 am
If this fund was launched last month, I would guess it will be until the end of the quarter before info is posted. That seems to be when those pages get updated.
Thank you !

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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by Johm221122 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:25 am

my name wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:37 am
Your thoughts are appreciated.

What I did not expect was the display of changes to the value.
NAV has to be tallied and available everyday

Mutual funds are required by law to determine the price of their shares each business day. A fund's net asset value (NAV) per share is the current value of all the fund's assets, minus liabilities, divided by the total number of shares outstanding.
ICI - Mutual Fund Share Pricing: FAQs
https://www.ici.org/pubs/faqs/faqs_navs

cherijoh
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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by cherijoh » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:29 am

my name wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:41 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:05 am
my name wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:48 am
The prospectus is just strategy and objectives.
The fund is down because in the last month global equities of moved down slightly and the 10 year treasury has moved from 2.3% yield to 2.4% yield causing bonds to drop in value.
This sentence is helpful. Thank you. In addition, my post was more about how a new fund posts changes but without any backup data on the holdings and performance. Wondering if that is normal. I expected the month wait for info being posted. What I did not expect was the display of changes to the value.
If you look at a fund that has been in existence for a while you will see that the posted information is all backwards looking - usually the end of the previous quarter NOT the previous month as you seem to be expecting. So if the fund is only a month old, you won't see any of this information until after the first of the year. Since you seem so concerned, my advice to you would be to NOT invest in a brand new fund. Then you can see the holdings BEFORE you invest.

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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by AlohaJoe » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:50 am

my name wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:48 am
The prospectus is just strategy and objectives.
Also, this isn't true. The prospectus has a section titled "Portfolio Holdings" that answers your question.

More generally, funds, especially active one's like Wellington absolutely do not want to disclose their trades on a daily basis. That would provide information about trading strategies to other market participants. Often purchases and sales will be structured over more than one day to avoid disturbing the market too much. I assume that is especially the case for a newly launched fund. For all we know Wellington hasn't even finished investing all of their initial cash yet.

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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by my name » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:17 am

AlohaJoe wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:50 am
Also, this isn't true. The prospectus has a section titled "Portfolio Holdings" that answers your question.
No, the prospectus does not have the info I am asking about, just descriptive strategy and objectives.

The prospectus states, "This is the Fund’s initial prospectus, so it does not contain performance data."

If you have something you feel is detail on what the holdings and performance are for this fund, please paste a link and even paste some of the information below the link as an excerpt.
Last edited by my name on Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

my name
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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by my name » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:29 am

cherijoh wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:29 am
If you look at a fund that has been in existence for a while you will see that the posted information is all backwards looking - usually the end of the previous quarter NOT the previous month as you seem to be expecting. So if the fund is only a month old, you won't see any of this information until after the first of the year. Since you seem so concerned, my advice to you would be to NOT invest in a brand new fund. Then you can see the holdings BEFORE you invest.
Very interesting about seeing detail info perhaps after first of year.

No, the answer for me would not be wait to invest until the fund does post the detail of investments. Besides the fact I am rebalancing my AA now, I invested due to the belief the team behind the "well" funds will continue doing a good job managing their funds, and a look to improvement in the foreign stocks long term.

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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by my name » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:31 am

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Last edited by my name on Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

GLState
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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by GLState » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:31 am

Vanguard Portfolio Holdings Disclaimer
https://investor.vanguard.com/investing ... disclaimer

my name
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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by my name » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:36 am

GLState wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:31 am
Vanguard Portfolio Holdings Disclaimer
https://investor.vanguard.com/investing ... disclaimer
Great, thank you!

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randomizer
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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by randomizer » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:50 am

The fact that you are so anxious about this makes me wonder whether you'd have more peace of mind with a different fund.

dbr
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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by dbr » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:51 am

It might be easy enough to wait a few months until the system catches up with this new fund unless there is some special glory to being in at the opening.

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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by my name » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:03 am

dbr wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:51 am
It might be easy enough to wait a few months until the system catches up with this new fund unless there is some special glory to being in at the opening.
You make a good point. After I invested, I read that getting in on a new fund only helps the fund company, and has no advantage for the investor, is not like a stock IPO.

That said, I made my decision based on AA rebalance, respect for the managers of the "Well" funds, and belief in the future for foreign stocks. In hindsight, I would not change what I did. Someone above gave a good explanation for the current negative change, so I better understand what the current market is doing, but I am in this long term.

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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by AlohaJoe » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:07 am

my name wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:17 am
AlohaJoe wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:50 am
Also, this isn't true. The prospectus has a section titled "Portfolio Holdings" that answers your question.
No, the prospectus does not have the info I am asking about, just descriptive strategy and objectives.

The prospectus states, "This is the Fund’s initial prospectus, so it does not contain performance data."

If you have something you feel is detail on what the holdings and performance are for this fund, please paste a link and even paste some of the information below the link as an excerpt.
The prospectus has a section called "Portfolio Holdings", which I previously mentioned. When we read that section, what does it tell us about portfolio holdings?
Please consult the Fund‘s Statement of Additional Information or our website for a description of the policies and procedures that govern disclosure of the Fund’s portfolio holdings.
So then we go read the Statement of Additional Information and it tells us
Each actively managed Vanguard fund, unless otherwise stated, generally will seek to disclose the fund’s complete portfolio holdings as of the end of the most recent calendar quarter online at vanguard.com, in the “Portfolio” section of the fund’s Portfolio & Management page, 30 calendar days after the end of the calendar quarter.
So the answer to your question "is this normal?" is: yes, this is normal and it is operating exactly how the prospectus said it would. They will disclose the portfolio holdings 30 days after the end of the quarter.

my name
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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by my name » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:21 am

AlohaJoe wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:07 am
They will disclose the portfolio holdings 30 days after the end of the quarter.
And why was this simple sentence not the content of one of your prior replies? Why the drip, drip, drip game? Others have previously given this information, so you are late to the party, it is not helpful.

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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by columbia » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:19 pm

One wonders why anyone would sink money into a fund, which has (current) disclosure of the holdings.

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Re: problem new Vanguard Global Wellington fund

Post by tibbitts » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:40 pm

columbia wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:19 pm
One wonders why anyone would sink money into a fund, which has (current) disclosure of the holdings.
"Current" is relative. I assume you're concerned that disclosing the holdings would reveal some "secret sauce" that other funds could then capitalize on? We know all the holding reports are historical, by at least 30 days, but with a large-cap fund like this, do you really think there would be risk in disclosing the holdings on even a daily basis? By risk I mean market risk, not the risk of an error or compliance issues.

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