New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
grp2c
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:51 pm

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by grp2c » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:38 pm

GridironGems wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:43 pm
What are you guys going to put your HSA money in TD Ameritrade into?

iShares Core S&P Total U.S. Stock Market ETF - ITOT looks like it could be an option at 0.03% ER
I'll probably just buy Vanguard Total World Stock ETF and put my bond allocations elsewhere. I figure once a year $6.95 commission isn't so bad. I had to find another hsa provider after alliant closed their hsa service. Had I known TD ameritrade was getting rid of vanguard funds, might have gone with Saturna. I do like that Lively is all online with no paper forms.

dschonauer
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:19 pm

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by dschonauer » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:03 am

I just did an in kind transfer from HSA Bank to Lively...

Monday - Signed up.

Tuesday - Received micro deposits in checking account, confirmed amounts (done via email at this time) and signed up for an investment account which was immediately activated. Filled out TD Ameritrade in kind transfer form (in California and don't want to pay state tax on gains... still hopeful that eventually the legislature will not kill the annual bill to conform in committee) and uploaded it securely (they currently use Virtru for this).

Wednesday - Holdings moved in kind from old HSA Bank TD Ameritrade account to new Lively TD Ameritrade account.

Thursday - TD Ameritrade cash balance moved (this probably would have happened Wednesday as well but they waited a day for some trades to settle). Electronically signed (they use Hello Sign) the transfer form to move the remaining 5k sitting in the old HSA Bank account and close the account. I figure this part will take a bit longer since I have to wait for HSA Bank to send the funds to Choice Financial (the bank Lively uses for cash).

I have to say that I am very impressed with their responsiveness and how quickly and painlessly everything has been done so far. I didn't even have to explain anything twice (they knew exactly what I wanted done and why). I really hope they can keep it up as they grow (and keep their fees low of course).

GridironGems
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:50 pm

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by GridironGems » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:37 pm

I am in the process of doing a Trustee to Trustee transfer from Optum to Lively. Lively told me Optum is slow with this and could be 2-6 weeks. Sounds ridiculous to me

User avatar
jhfenton
Posts: 2177
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:17 am
Location: Ohio

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:37 pm

dschonauer wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:03 am
I just did an in kind transfer from HSA Bank to Lively...
Thanks for sharing. It's very encouraging to see how easy it is to move between two HSA providers that use TD Ameritrade as a brokerage platform.
GridironGems wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:37 pm
I am in the process of doing a Trustee to Trustee transfer from Optum to Lively. Lively told me Optum is slow with this and could be 2-6 weeks. Sounds ridiculous to me
Fifth-Third Bank (my employer-sponsored HSA provider) told Lively that it would be 30-60 days for a trustee-to-trustee transfer. Instead, Fifth-Third received the transfer form from Lively on Friday, mailed the check to California on Tuesday--Columbus Day Monday was a bank holiday--and Lively credited it the following Monday. I transferred it to TD Ameritrade on Tuesday and invested it on Wednesday.

So it might not take that long. :sharebeer

Callithump
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:31 pm

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Callithump » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:47 pm

themicah wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:25 pm
Regarding the TDAM free ETF list changes...

For those who do long-term dollar cost averaging in their HSA, TDAM also lets you set up a recurring purchase of Vanguard mutual funds in these self-directed investment accounts. I think you may need to pay a commission ($25 in my Elements CU-linked TDAM self-directed HSA account) to establish an initial position in the mutual fund, but once you have some shares in a fund, you can set up and make changes to your recurring investments in that fund without any additional commission (and you may be able to avoid the commission altogether if you set up the recurring transaction from the very beginning--I'm not sure about that).

You can also get Vanguard Admiral Shares through TDAM even if you can't find the ticker on their website. I don't recall the details as it was a few years ago that I set it up, but I think you have to call and ask. They may also be able to waive minimum investment requirements for Admiral Shares (again, I don't recall the details). Come to think of it, I should ask if they'll convert me to Institutional Shares without a minimum balance, too...

Emailed tda about this.

It’s called a systematic transaction.

You basically establish an initial position in a mutual fund like vtsax then on a regular basis weekly, monthly, quarterly etc. they sweep your investable cash into the fund.

They can do it on a fixed dollar amount or on a % basis.

You can set it up by calling or filling out a form.

You still have to pay $25 to buy the initial position and $25 any time you sell though.

I’ll probably stick with the spdr russel 3000 index fund for the time being though.

I also asked lively and there’s not a way for them to do recurring trustee to trustee transfers online right now.

But I asked, and they’ve set it up to ask how much I want transferred once a month, and they generate a trustee to trustee transfer form for me to sign to do a transfer from my employer sponsored hsa once a month.

At least in my case my employer plan doesn’t charge a fee for trustee to trustee transfers, just closure so I’ll leave a dollar or two in it each month.

yoshimi
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:35 pm

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by yoshimi » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:32 pm

dschonauer wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:03 am
I just did an in kind transfer from HSA Bank to Lively...
Did this leave you with just the $25 HSA Bank closing fee then? I ended up with both a HSA Bank (individual) and an Optum (work) HSA, and this might be the ticket for combining the two into something simpler with lower fees than HSA Bank for fully invested funds. HSA Bank has the account closing fee; Optum has a $20 rollover/transfer fee, and I'm trying to figure out if I can get around it.

Bacchus01
Posts: 1107
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:35 pm

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Bacchus01 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:44 pm

If you’ve got $40K in HSA funds, never planning to withdraw them until much later, and just want to invest once a year in a broad find like Total Stock Market, which account is the best?

User avatar
Thrifty Femme
Posts: 278
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:54 pm

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Thrifty Femme » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:48 pm

Bacchus01 wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:44 pm
If you’ve got $40K in HSA funds, never planning to withdraw them until much later, and just want to invest once a year in a broad find like Total Stock Market, which account is the best?
Saturna at $24.95/year if you can deal with the mountain of paper work for the application. Do a search for best HSA on this forum.

dschonauer
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:19 pm

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by dschonauer » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:30 pm

yoshimi wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:32 pm
dschonauer wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:03 am
I just did an in kind transfer from HSA Bank to Lively...
Did this leave you with just the $25 HSA Bank closing fee then? I ended up with both a HSA Bank (individual) and an Optum (work) HSA, and this might be the ticket for combining the two into something simpler with lower fees than HSA Bank for fully invested funds. HSA Bank has the account closing fee; Optum has a $20 rollover/transfer fee, and I'm trying to figure out if I can get around it.
Still waiting for HSA Bank to complete the final transfer and close the account (13 days now), but I am sure they will take the $25 closing fee out first.

User avatar
jhfenton
Posts: 2177
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:17 am
Location: Ohio

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:39 pm

Bacchus01 wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:44 pm
If you’ve got $40K in HSA funds, never planning to withdraw them until much later, and just want to invest once a year in a broad find like Total Stock Market, which account is the best?
Saturna or Lively. I think Lively's customer service, more flexible investing options, and complete lack of paperwork are worth $5.05 per year.

At $5.05/year, the time to figure out and fill out all the Saturna forms is worth a couple decades of fees.

User avatar
jhfenton
Posts: 2177
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:17 am
Location: Ohio

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:47 pm

Callithump wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:47 pm
I also asked lively and there’s not a way for them to do recurring trustee to trustee transfers online right now.

But I asked, and they’ve set it up to ask how much I want transferred once a month, and they generate a trustee to trustee transfer form for me to sign to do a transfer from my employer sponsored hsa once a month.

At least in my case my employer plan doesn’t charge a fee for trustee to trustee transfers, just closure so I’ll leave a dollar or two in it each month.
I'm in the same boat. I think I'm going to do them every 3-4 months ($1,500-2,000). I would like to automate them or do them monthly, but I don't want to waste my time or Lively's transferring $500 at a time. (Plus my employer HSA trustee might decide to start charging a fee for them, since they have to process and mail a check each time.)

monsterid
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:10 pm

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by monsterid » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:48 pm

So full disclosure, the CEO of this company spoke to me about an investment (I angel invest in technology companies). I want to be respectful and not reveal any information he gave me in confidence about the company or the economics. I'll leave it just by saying everything I've seen on his website and posted here is consistent with the information I've otherwise seen. I was impressed by him and this product. I'm going to open a HSA and see how we go.

nosivol
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 8:44 am

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by nosivol » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:42 am

jhfenton wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:37 pm

Fifth-Third Bank (my employer-sponsored HSA provider) told Lively that it would be 30-60 days for a trustee-to-trustee transfer. Instead, Fifth-Third received the transfer form from Lively on Friday, mailed the check to California on Tuesday--Columbus Day Monday was a bank holiday--and Lively credited it the following Monday. I transferred it to TD Ameritrade on Tuesday and invested it on Wednesday.
Did you have to liquidate your current investments in Fifth Third? I can't seem to find how to sell the investments and just have the money in the cash side of the HSA. Any guidance?

asif408
Posts: 1083
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:34 am
Location: Florida

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by asif408 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:50 am

yoshimi wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:32 pm
dschonauer wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:03 am
I just did an in kind transfer from HSA Bank to Lively...
Did this leave you with just the $25 HSA Bank closing fee then? I ended up with both a HSA Bank (individual) and an Optum (work) HSA, and this might be the ticket for combining the two into something simpler with lower fees than HSA Bank for fully invested funds. HSA Bank has the account closing fee; Optum has a $20 rollover/transfer fee, and I'm trying to figure out if I can get around it.
I actually did the in kind transfer from HSA Bank to Lively this week. I had $15 or $20 left in the cash account at HSA Bank so when I called to close the HSA Bank account they just used what was left to cover the closing fee and said they would waive the rest. A nice gesture on their part. YMMV.

User avatar
jhfenton
Posts: 2177
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:17 am
Location: Ohio

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:33 am

nosivol wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:42 am
jhfenton wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:37 pm

Fifth-Third Bank (my employer-sponsored HSA provider) told Lively that it would be 30-60 days for a trustee-to-trustee transfer. Instead, Fifth-Third received the transfer form from Lively on Friday, mailed the check to California on Tuesday--Columbus Day Monday was a bank holiday--and Lively credited it the following Monday. I transferred it to TD Ameritrade on Tuesday and invested it on Wednesday.
Did you have to liquidate your current investments in Fifth Third? I can't seem to find how to sell the investments and just have the money in the cash side of the HSA. Any guidance?
I did have to liquidate my former investments in Fifth-Third. They don't do any in-kind transfers or even electronic transfers of cash to other custodians. $43K of my $45K was invested, all in one Vanguard equity fund, so when I liquidated that position, I moved ~$43K elsewhere from bonds to equities. I rebalanced back a week and a half later. (I received a frequent trading alert in my 401(k) for making a round-trip exchange in less than 30 days :D --as I knew I would--but one such round-trip has no consequences.)

The Fifth-Third website was not clear at all, but to transfer the money back from the investing side, I changed my sweep threshold from the minimum $2,000 to $100,000. Since my account had roughly $45K, that means none should be invested. That triggered the sale of my investment holdings the next day. A couple days later, the cash was back in the bank side.

Bacchus01
Posts: 1107
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:35 pm

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Bacchus01 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:24 am

Bacchus01 wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:44 pm
If you’ve got $40K in HSA funds, never planning to withdraw them until much later, and just want to invest once a year in a broad find like Total Stock Market, which account is the best?
I did not realize that my current HSA provider (Optum) had changed a lot of their rates with my current employer, so I've decided to stick with them.

Currently, as long as you leave $2K in the cash balance account, they now let you do investments for just $3/month. So, for what little i lose on the $2K, plus the $6/year increase in cost over Lively, plus the $20 fee that Optum charges to transfer funds....I'm staying put.

They also will automatically invest all new contributions in $100 increments over the $2K cash balance level. I should have been paying better attention.

User avatar
tfb
Posts: 7731
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:46 pm
Contact:

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by tfb » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:43 am

jhfenton wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:39 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:44 pm
If you’ve got $40K in HSA funds, never planning to withdraw them until much later, and just want to invest once a year in a broad find like Total Stock Market, which account is the best?
Saturna or Lively. I think Lively's customer service, more flexible investing options, and complete lack of paperwork are worth $5.05 per year.

At $5.05/year, the time to figure out and fill out all the Saturna forms is worth a couple decades of fees.
For a true apples to apples comparison:

Vanguard fund with dividend reinvestment: Saturna $25/year, Lively $80/year
Vanguard ETF with dividend reinvestment: Saturna $19/year, Lively $37/year

Saturna's cost is half or less than half of Lively's cost. Paper application is only one-time. It's not that bad.
Harry Sit, taking a break from the forums.

Nyc10036
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:29 pm

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Nyc10036 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:56 am

tfb wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:43 am
For a true apples to apples comparison:

Vanguard fund with dividend reinvestment: Saturna $25/year, Lively $80/year
Vanguard ETF with dividend reinvestment: Saturna $19/year, Lively $37/year

Saturna's cost is half or less than half of Lively's cost. Paper application is only one-time. It's not that bad.
How are you calculating those fees?
Isn't Lively $30/year?

aristotelian
Posts: 3033
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:05 pm

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by aristotelian » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:24 pm

Nyc10036 wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:56 am
How are you calculating those fees?
Isn't Lively $30/year?
I think he is assuming transaction fees on Vanguard funds because TD is dropping them from their free ETF list. Of course, you can easily find a comparable iShares or State Street fund within .02% ER so I don't think that is really an apples to apples comparison. Of course, if TD's list bothers you and your only acceptable funds are Vanguard, then you should not go with Lively, obviously.

User avatar
jhfenton
Posts: 2177
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:17 am
Location: Ohio

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:45 pm

tfb wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:43 am
For a true apples to apples comparison:

Vanguard fund with dividend reinvestment: Saturna $25/year, Lively $80/year
Vanguard ETF with dividend reinvestment: Saturna $19/year, Lively $37/year

Saturna's cost is half or less than half of Lively's cost. Paper application is only one-time. It's not that bad.
That's not a reasonable comparison. If you're at TD Ameritrade at this point, you're probably not going to be using Vanguard ETFs for new investments. You're probably going to use one of the SPDR portfolio funds. In an HSA (a tax-advantaged account), I really couldn't care less--OK, maybe a tad less--about using SPEM (at 11 bp) instead of VWO (at 14 bp).

Not to mention, I sent a message in my TD Ameritrade account, asking for and receiving three free trades. So I actually invested my initial lump sum in another EM fund entirely. In the meanwhile, I'll accumulate in SPEM quarterly and ask for another free trade in a year to allow me to consolidate.

Also, if you are determined to use Vanguard mutual funds, you can make one initial purchase, and then set up free periodic investments on whatever schedule you want. So the mutual fund commission is only on the original purchase (and probably the eventual sale), not every year. (But I wouldn't use Vanguard mutual funds, or any mutual funds, at TD Ameritrade at this point.)

And the Saturna paperwork is truly absurd. I can only assume that all of their processes are that primitive and time-consuming and their customer service that poor. The time necessary to figure out the multiple separate forms, complete them, find and attach a canceled check (!), mail it (!), etc., is probably worth a decade of fees. And then there's their fee schedule. $1 to reinvest dividends. (Seriously?) $75 account transfer out fee. I actually printed out the forms twice in the previous two years and decided each time that it wasn't worth the hassle versus the status quo at my employer-sponsored plan.

I was ultimately won over by Lively's one-line fee schedule, instant online application, and email customer service response times measured in minutes (plus my employer-sponsored HSA doubled its asset-based fee).

But for all that, Saturna would still be my second choice, which is a sad commentary on the HSA industry. :beer

Nyc10036
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:29 pm

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Nyc10036 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:29 pm

What about SelectAccount?
They are my second choice behind Lively.

User avatar
Thrifty Femme
Posts: 278
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:54 pm

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Thrifty Femme » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:17 pm

Does TDA's DRIP not apply to Vanguard ETFs after they leave the commission free list?

User avatar
jhfenton
Posts: 2177
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:17 am
Location: Ohio

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:48 pm

Thrifty Femme wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:17 pm
Does TDA's DRIP not apply to Vanguard ETFs after they leave the commission free list?
All dividend reinvestments are free at TD Ameritrade, for mutual funds and for ETFs. (Although if you buy a low asset, low volume ETF, it may not be eligible for dividend at all.)

User avatar
jhfenton
Posts: 2177
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:17 am
Location: Ohio

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:41 pm

Nyc10036 wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:29 pm
What about SelectAccount?
They are my second choice behind Lively.
SelectAccount would certainly be in the running: $30/year + $1,000 kept in cash = Schwab brokerage (assuming you have over $10K in the account in all). I would impute a 2.4% ($24) per year charge to the $1,000 cash since it would only earn 0.1% per year and it would be displacing $1,000 in a bond fund elsewhere earning 2-3%. So that's $54/year for Schwab brokerage flexibility.

To be fair, if I were making a detailed comparison, I wouldn't consider Saturna to have a $19/year cost either. If I used Saturna, to avoid additional $15 commissions, I would accumulate more cash in my employer HSA earning next to nothing (or ponying up $2/month + 20 bp/year to invest the small amounts there). On average, over the course of a year, I would have half a year's contribution ($3,450 next year) in cash. At 2.25% imputed charge--my employer HSA pays 0.25% on cash--that's $77.63. (So it might be worth doing two transfers per year.)

By comparison, with Lively (or with SelectAccount), I can make monthly transfers if I want. I plan to do quarterly. If I do quarterly transfers, my average cash balance would be around $862.50, leading to $19.41 in lost dividends imputed to SelectAccount and Lively.

So, I have the following:

Lively = $30* + $19.41= $49.41
SelectAccount = $30 + $24 + $19.41 = $73.41
Saturna (1x/yr) = $15 + $4 + $77.63 = $96.63 (+ $75 account closure fee eventually)
Saturan (2x/yr) = $15 + $15 + $4 + $38.81 = $72.81 (+ $75 account closure fee eventually)

So, you're right. I would probably pick SelectAccount.

* Lively takes the fee from outside the HSA,instead of taking precious tax-advantaged HSA money, so I should discount this $30.

User avatar
indexfundfan
Posts: 1917
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:00 pm

There's one more option: HSA Authority if you can live with mutual funds. The annual fee at the HSA Authority is $36 and it has a bunch of low cost Vanguard mutual funds. It supports first dollar investing too (but you do need $1000 to establish the investment account).
My signature has been deleted.

LifeIsGood
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:43 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by LifeIsGood » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:33 am

I'm in the process of doing a transfer to Lively. They want a copy of my drivers license to verify my identity. I'm a bit uncomfortable with this.
Has anyone else ran into a request like this?

User avatar
jhfenton
Posts: 2177
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:17 am
Location: Ohio

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:54 am

LifeIsGood wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:33 am
I'm in the process of doing a transfer to Lively. They want a copy of my drivers license to verify my identity. I'm a bit uncomfortable with this.
Has anyone else ran into a request like this?
Lively did not request that from me. I completed everything online, including digitally signing my transfer request form.

If you haven't already spoken to them on the phone, I'd call them just to verify the validity of the request.

Once I verified the request, I'd provide a copy of my driver license. Something probably didn't verify fully when you completed the online application.

User avatar
indexfundfan
Posts: 1917
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:00 am

LifeIsGood wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:33 am
I'm in the process of doing a transfer to Lively. They want a copy of my drivers license to verify my identity. I'm a bit uncomfortable with this.
Has anyone else ran into a request like this?
Did you freeze your credit information?
My signature has been deleted.

LifeIsGood
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:43 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by LifeIsGood » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:04 am

indexfundfan wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:00 am
LifeIsGood wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:33 am
I'm in the process of doing a transfer to Lively. They want a copy of my drivers license to verify my identity. I'm a bit uncomfortable with this.
Has anyone else ran into a request like this?

Did you freeze your credit information?
No, my credit is unfrozen.

desiderium
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:08 am

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by desiderium » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:14 am

LifeIsGood wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:04 am
indexfundfan wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:00 am
LifeIsGood wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:33 am
I'm in the process of doing a transfer to Lively. They want a copy of my drivers license to verify my identity. I'm a bit uncomfortable with this.
Has anyone else ran into a request like this?

Did you freeze your credit information?
No, my credit is unfrozen.
The identification requirement comes from the USA patriot act if I am not mistaken, common for bank and brokerage accounts.

User avatar
jhfenton
Posts: 2177
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:17 am
Location: Ohio

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:21 am

indexfundfan wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:00 am
LifeIsGood wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:33 am
I'm in the process of doing a transfer to Lively. They want a copy of my drivers license to verify my identity. I'm a bit uncomfortable with this.
Has anyone else ran into a request like this?
Did you freeze your credit information?
Mine is frozen at the Big 3, Innovis, and Chexsystems, and I didn't get a request for a driver license.
desiderium wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:14 am
The identification requirement comes from the USA patriot act if I am not mistaken, common for bank and brokerage accounts.
It does. Still, a request for a driver license is unusual, but not unheard of.

In retrospect, I'm not sure why mine sailed through with everything frozen.

Jaded-Fan
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:44 pm

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Jaded-Fan » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:53 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:00 pm
There's one more option: HSA Authority if you can live with mutual funds. The annual fee at the HSA Authority is $36 and it has a bunch of low cost Vanguard mutual funds. It supports first dollar investing too (but you do need $1000 to establish the investment account).
I just signed up for HSA Authority this past month.

Very easy, it is operated by Old National Bank of Indiana.

They set up the HSA accounts for Indiana's Government Workers I was told, but let anyone join. I did have to surpass $1,000 in Old National Bank before they would transfer to HSA Authority, which they just did with several thousand dollars a few minutes ago. There is no need to keep a dime in the bank after., however you have to call to transfer each month. They are working on automating that as an option I am told.

The HSA choices are run through Charles Schwab, and include about 20 or so of the most popular Vanguard accounts. I have all of mine in the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index fund as an example. $15 per $10,000 a year until you get admiral shares when it drops to approximately $4 a year per $10,000.

If you switch to online statements the $3 a month is all you pay. That is it.

One more thing to keep in mind, the IRS has no lookback limit for reimbursements. So you could keep the receipts for 30 years for copays and the like, let the money grow tax free, then reimburse yourself thousands of dollars decades later. True with every HSA of course. But it makes one like HSA Authority which allows you to keep the funds for a long time in a low cost stock market fund particularly attractive.

User avatar
indexfundfan
Posts: 1917
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:37 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:21 am
In retrospect, I'm not sure why mine sailed through with everything frozen.
Could be that Lively added new measures for identity check. It's not unusual for things to change quickly at startups.
My signature has been deleted.

User avatar
jhfenton
Posts: 2177
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:17 am
Location: Ohio

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:55 am

indexfundfan wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:37 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:21 am
In retrospect, I'm not sure why mine sailed through with everything frozen.
Could be that Lively added new measures for identity check. It's not unusual for things to change quickly at startups.
That's certainly possible. :beer The freeze didn't even cross my mind at the time.

b4nash
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:20 am

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by b4nash » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:29 am

8.6 30-Day Right to Opt Out. You have the right to opt out of the provisions of this Arbitration Agreement by sending a timely written notice of your decision to opt out to the following address: Lively, Inc. c/o/ Legal, 188 King St., #502, St., San Francisco, CA 94107, support@livelyme.com within 30 days after first becoming subject to this Arbitration Agreement. Your notice must include your name and address, your username (if any), the email address you used to set up your Account (if you have one), and a clear statement that you want to opt out of this Arbitration Agreement. If you opt out of this Arbitration Agreement, all other parts of these Terms will continue to apply to you. Opting out of this Arbitration Agreement has no effect on any other arbitration agreements that you may currently have with us, or may enter into in the future with us.
Anyone else opt out of arbitration?

Also of interest regarding SPTM (similar changes to SPLG and SPSM):
Prior to 11/16/2017, the Fund sought to track the Russell 3000® Index. Effective 11/16/2017, the Fund seeks to track the SSGA Total Stock Market Index. The inception of the SSGA Total Stock Market Index was 10/12/2017.
https://us.spdrs.com/en/etf/spdr-portfo ... t-ETF-SPTM

User avatar
jhfenton
Posts: 2177
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:17 am
Location: Ohio

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:53 pm

b4nash wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:29 am
8.6 30-Day Right to Opt Out. You have the right to opt out of the provisions of this Arbitration Agreement by sending a timely written notice of your decision to opt out to the following address: Lively, Inc. c/o/ Legal, 188 King St., #502, St., San Francisco, CA 94107, support@livelyme.com within 30 days after first becoming subject to this Arbitration Agreement. Your notice must include your name and address, your username (if any), the email address you used to set up your Account (if you have one), and a clear statement that you want to opt out of this Arbitration Agreement. If you opt out of this Arbitration Agreement, all other parts of these Terms will continue to apply to you. Opting out of this Arbitration Agreement has no effect on any other arbitration agreements that you may currently have with us, or may enter into in the future with us.
Anyone else opt out of arbitration?
Where do you find that language? It is not in my Lively HSA agreement nor my Choice Financial Terms and Conditions.

I generally don't have any issues with arbitration agreements, but the specifics matter, and I didn't recall reading that.

b4nash
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:20 am

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by b4nash » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:56 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:53 pm
Where do you find that language? It is not in my Lively HSA agreement nor my Choice Financial Terms and Conditions.

I generally don't have any issues with arbitration agreements, but the specifics matter, and I didn't recall reading that.
Terms & Conditions found on the Sign Up page: https://livelyme.com/terms-and-conditions/

User avatar
jhfenton
Posts: 2177
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:17 am
Location: Ohio

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:04 pm

b4nash wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:56 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:53 pm
Where do you find that language? It is not in my Lively HSA agreement nor my Choice Financial Terms and Conditions.

I generally don't have any issues with arbitration agreements, but the specifics matter, and I didn't recall reading that.
Terms & Conditions found on the Sign Up page: https://livelyme.com/terms-and-conditions/
Thanks. They're just the Website Terms and Conditions, so I did not. I don't recall even seeing those when I signed up.

And it's actually a rather narrow clause. It allows for small claims court on an individual basis:
8.1. Applicability of Arbitration Agreement. You agree that any dispute between you and us relating in any way to the Site or these Terms, will be resolved by binding arbitration, rather than in court, except that (1) you may assert claims in small claims court if your claims qualify, so long as the matter remains in such court and advances only on an individual (non-class, non-representative) basis; and (2) you or Lively may seek equitable relief in court for infringement or other misuse of intellectual property rights (such as trademarks, trade dress, domain names, trade secrets, copyrights, and patents).
The main Lively HSA Agreement is a separate agreement, and I do not believe it has an arbitration provision.

b4nash
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:20 am

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by b4nash » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:13 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:37 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:21 am
In retrospect, I'm not sure why mine sailed through with everything frozen.
Could be that Lively added new measures for identity check. It's not unusual for things to change quickly at startups.
FYI - Opened my account today and the only identity check was a few demographic questions. All 3 credit files frozen.

User avatar
jhfenton
Posts: 2177
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:17 am
Location: Ohio

Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:24 pm

b4nash wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:13 pm
indexfundfan wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:37 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:21 am
In retrospect, I'm not sure why mine sailed through with everything frozen.
Could be that Lively added new measures for identity check. It's not unusual for things to change quickly at startups.
FYI - Opened my account today and the only identity check was a few demographic questions. All 3 credit files frozen.
That sounds like my experience a month ago. :beer

Post Reply