Selling Tradelines

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psystal
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Selling Tradelines

Post by psystal » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:35 am

I was recently introduced to the concept of selling tradelines by a friend (who hasn't pulled the trigger on it yet). A cursory search reveals mostly positive reviews and endorsements from a number of referral-based websites (such as Mr. Moustache), but not much else. There are several references to it through the Bogleheads forums, but no real information.

Anyone have experience with selling tradelines, positive or negative, or any input on the practice?

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alpenglow
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by alpenglow » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:45 am

I've read about it but won't do it as it strikes me as sketchy and amoral.

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JoMoney
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by JoMoney » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:00 pm

"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham

barnaclebob
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by barnaclebob » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:03 pm

I don't need an extra $1000 that badly.

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whodidntante
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by whodidntante » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:15 pm

I looked into doing this with a 16 year old card because older cards bring more money. I decided not to do it because I could not find any datapoints for the issuer. Some issuers will close your account for selling tradelines.

SirToolman
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by SirToolman » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:20 pm

Yeah...that sounds like a bad idea all around.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:59 pm

I do it. Money for nuthin'. Look in the MMM forum, share your badassity and find the tradeline thread II.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

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FrugalProfessor
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by FrugalProfessor » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:06 pm

I blog. My effective (not to be confused with statutory) MTR is 45% (fed + state, excluding payroll). I save $30k/year in taxes by maxing out deferrals. Taxes are the lowest hanging source of alpha.

psystal
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by psystal » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:51 pm

JoMoney wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:00 pm
Wow :shock:
I had not heard of this before http://www.thetruthaboutcreditcards.com ... ade-lines/
Yeah. It's not something that ever occurred to me, but it seems to be relatively big business, and has been for some time. It also seems to be endorsed by a surprising number of relatively reputable bloggers. The concept struck me as sketchy, although my curiosity is piqued.

psystal
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by psystal » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:53 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:59 pm
I do it. Money for nuthin'. Look in the MMM forum, share your badassity and find the tradeline thread II.
I'm curious - how long have you been at it? Any issues with your credit card companies?

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flamesabers
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by flamesabers » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:58 pm

FrugalProfessor wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:06 pm
Interesting writeup here: https://wealthyaccountant.com/2017/10/1 ... -side-gig/
I think this statement from this article says a lot if banks finds out what you're doing:
The banks generally don’t like tradelines being sold. Their biggest concern is fraudsters increasing their FICO score, getting a credit card or other loan and defaulting. Without adequate fraud control criminals can cause losses for the banks and that ends the party.
I wouldn't be surprised if banks cancelled your accounts and blacklisted you if they suspect you're selling your tradelines.

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Raybo
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by Raybo » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:23 pm

Given that all our credit data is now on the dark net, thanks to the high quality IT staff at Equifax, why can't these people simply buy a new identify with good credit?
No matter how long the hill, if you keep pedaling you'll eventually get up to the top.

spammagnet
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by spammagnet » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:19 pm

From http://www.thetruthaboutcreditcards.com ... rade-lines:

"Credit brokers essentially connect people with good to great credit who are willing to add authorized users to their credit cards and other financial accounts to people who lack credit history."
Wow? Add an unknown person with bad credit as an authorized user on my credit card? For which I'm responsible? What am I not understanding?

DavidRoseMountain
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by DavidRoseMountain » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:16 pm

spammagnet wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:19 pm
From http://www.thetruthaboutcreditcards.com ... rade-lines:

"Credit brokers essentially connect people with good to great credit who are willing to add authorized users to their credit cards and other financial accounts to people who lack credit history."
Wow? Add an unknown person with bad credit as an authorized user on my credit card? For which I'm responsible? What am I not understanding?
The authorized user doesn't actually ever get your credit card, they don't know your credit card number, and they have no way of getting that information. The authorized user simply gets a credit report that looks like it has a great credit card with a long history of payments and a great credit line, so it bumps up the credit score.
However, some mortgage companies get more sophisticated credit reports that will delete out these authorized user credit cards from the credit report. So I'm not sure how if the people who buy these authorized user slots on a credit card are actually seeing any benefit, or are they merely being taken advantage of by these "tradeline companies" who make unrealistic promises.

SRenaeP
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by SRenaeP » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:37 pm

I wouldn't do it. I don't want a stranger with bad credit associated with my name, address or credit.

-Steph

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StevieG72
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by StevieG72 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:04 pm

Sounds very sketchy.

Since you are adding them as an authorized user, what prevents them from charging on the card?
Fools think their own way is right, but the wise listen to others.

soupcxan
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by soupcxan » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:50 pm

Adding an authorized user to your account who you have no legitimate relationship with is fraud, pure and simple.

tj
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by tj » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:31 pm

StevieG72 wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:04 pm
Sounds very sketchy.

Since you are adding them as an authorized user, what prevents them from charging on the card?
They never receive a card.

Goat1036
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by Goat1036 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:35 pm

Been doing this for about a Yr - can u explain how about it is fraud?

tj
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by tj » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:47 pm

Goat1036 wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:35 pm
Been doing this for about a Yr - can u explain how about it is fraud?


it's most likely against the terms of service of your bank. I don't think it's fraud.

I did it for a little bit, but I found it was generally not worth the hassle. You could get mail for random people, calls from debt collectors looking for them, etc.

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StevieG72
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by StevieG72 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:37 am

tj wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:31 pm
StevieG72 wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:04 pm
Sounds very sketchy.

Since you are adding them as an authorized user, what prevents them from charging on the card?
They never receive a card.
My concern would be a call to the card issuer from the authorized user to request card number or a physical card. I am assuming the card issuer will only do this with account owners request, but not sure I trust that safegaurd. What information is provided to the authorized user? If account number shows up on credit report the authorized user could call CC company and pretend to be the primary account owner.

For me the risk / reward ratio is off balance.
Fools think their own way is right, but the wise listen to others.

tigerdoc93
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by tigerdoc93 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:56 am

This seems “wrong “ to me but probably legal. I can find better ways to make money.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:50 am

psystal wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:53 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:59 pm
I do it. Money for nuthin'. Look in the MMM forum, share your badassity and find the tradeline thread II.
I'm curious - how long have you been at it? Any issues with your credit card companies?
Since May. Have had no problems with any of the credit card companies. I ONLY use cards that I don't care if they get closed.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

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ClevrChico
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by ClevrChico » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:52 am

I've done enough churning and cancellation of unused cards, that my cards are too new to be much value. Also, I don't like boosting credit for deadbeats.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:58 am

ClevrChico wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:52 am
I've done enough churning and cancellation of unused cards, that my cards are too new to be much value. Also, I don't like boosting credit for deadbeats.
Yup. For every person with bad credit because of some legit medical misfortune or something similar, there are a hundred people who have a bad credit history because they don’t want to pay their bills. And that, ultimately, is a tax on those of us who do pay our bills.

Imo, the only way this would be sketchier is if I got paid in drugs.

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ClevrChico
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by ClevrChico » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:07 am

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:58 am
ClevrChico wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:52 am
I've done enough churning and cancellation of unused cards, that my cards are too new to be much value. Also, I don't like boosting credit for deadbeats.
Yup. For every person with bad credit because of some legit medical misfortune or something similar, there are a hundred people who have a bad credit history because they don’t want to pay their bills. And that, ultimately, is a tax on those of us who do pay our bills.

Imo, the only way this would be sketchier is if I got paid in drugs.
Agreed. My dad managed a department store, and he had to take many people to court to recover funds from bad checks. Most simply chose not to pay, but could. (Mayor's wife, teacher, etc.) It made our family not so popular. :-)

Outside of that, the amount of customers that intentionally try to rip off businesses is shocking.

tj
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by tj » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:22 am

Outside of that, the amount of customers that intentionally try to rip off businesses is shocking.
I'm intrigued by this. Is everyone who calls and complains to their cable company for a discount "trying to rip them off?"

Is haggling in general trying to rip someone else off? Or is the company ripping off the potential customer because they don't haggle?

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ClevrChico
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by ClevrChico » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:52 am

tj wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:22 am
Outside of that, the amount of customers that intentionally try to rip off businesses is shocking.
I'm intrigued by this. Is everyone who calls and complains to their cable company for a discount "trying to rip them off?"

Is haggling in general trying to rip someone else off? Or is the company ripping off the potential customer because they don't haggle?
This was outright fraud/theft by the customer.

I've had family and friends manage and own restaurants. For takeout, people would call the next day, claiming they made a huge order, but X was left out, wanting a refund. The customers didn't realize that every order is recorded in a pos system, and no order was ever placed remotely matching them for said date/time. This happened multiple times, and customers would have to be barred by the restaurant. For dine in, dine and dash was a real thing, and measures would have to be taken to discourage it. (Like a buffet line, where you wouldn't receive a plate until you paid.)

I volunteer at an animal non-profit, and several times/year I'm given bad checks for an animal adoption. Some people have no intention paying until we threaten legal action.

Credit scores are an attempt to identify problem consumers and potential employees, which is why I have a problem with increasing credit scores with this method.

soupcxan
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by soupcxan » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:24 pm

Fraud defined: “wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.”

Selling trade lines is a violation of the contract you accepted when you got your card. It is a civil matter, not criminal, but is surely fraud under the definition above.

Nate79
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by Nate79 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:48 pm

People add AU all the time. For example you can add your child at a certain age to start building their credit score. You don't need to give them the credit card either. No spending on the card is required. As the owner of the account the card will be mailed to your address only - you are fully responsible for thr account. You can add any AU user you want as long as you have the right info. Neighbor, friend, family, etc.

tj
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by tj » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:28 pm

soupcxan wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:24 pm
Fraud defined: “wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.”

Selling trade lines is a violation of the contract you accepted when you got your card. It is a civil matter, not criminal, but is surely fraud under the definition above.
Right, it's against the terms of service of the contract, so they can cancel your card if they don't like what you are doing with it.

I don't believe that there is any law that would allow them to sue you in court for any sort of civil damages.

So I'm not sure what you mean when you say it is civil fraud.

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stemikger
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by stemikger » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:31 pm

alpenglow wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:45 am
I've read about it but won't do it as it strikes me as sketchy and amoral.
+1

Me too. I would have a hard time feeling good about this.
Choose Simplicity ~ Stay the Course!! ~ Press on Regardless!!!

lakpr
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by lakpr » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:33 pm

ClevrChico wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:52 am
Credit scores are an attempt to identify problem consumers and potential employees, which is why I have a problem with increasing credit scores with this method.
When you reduce the worth of a human being to a mere three digit number, the said human being has every right to increase self worth using any legal means possible. I do not have a problem with people gaining advantage using authorized user tricks. I have a problem with your basic premise that the credit scores do (or intended to) identify problem consumers/employees. They are intended to do nothing but maximize profits for lenders. Nothing wrong with maximizing profits either, just do not read anything more than it to be a business decision in the interests of the lenders, and just as seeking any trick to maximizing credit scores is a business decision that consumers take in their interests.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:51 pm

lakpr wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:33 pm
ClevrChico wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:52 am
Credit scores are an attempt to identify problem consumers and potential employees, which is why I have a problem with increasing credit scores with this method.
When you reduce the worth of a human being to a mere three digit number, the said human being has every right to increase self worth using any legal means possible. I do not have a problem with people gaining advantage using authorized user tricks. I have a problem with your basic premise that the credit scores do (or intended to) identify problem consumers/employees. They are intended to do nothing but maximize profits for lenders. Nothing wrong with maximizing profits either, just do not read anything more than it to be a business decision in the interests of the lenders, and just as seeking any trick to maximizing credit scores is a business decision that consumers take in their interests.
Not much sympathy for a small landlord, I guess. Credit scores aren’t just used by large lenders.

Nate79
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by Nate79 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:05 pm

For those who claim that this is against the credit card terms and conditions I would like to see that documented. I've never seen proof of that. As far as I know there are no restrictions on who you can add as authorized users. I don't see this as any different than for example Clark Howard and others who recommend you add your child as AU to build their credit based on your credit history.

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whodidntante
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by whodidntante » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:34 pm

Nate79 wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:05 pm
For those who claim that this is against the credit card terms and conditions I would like to see that documented. I've never seen proof of that. As far as I know there are no restrictions on who you can add as authorized users. I don't see this as any different than for example Clark Howard and others who recommend you add your child as AU to build their credit based on your credit history.
Good point. It's still true that the issuer can cancel your card for almost any reason. They could cancel the cards of known Bogleheads, for example. And they probably should, since not many of us pay fees or interest.

tj
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Re: Selling Tradelines

Post by tj » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:51 pm

whodidntante wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:34 pm
Nate79 wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:05 pm
For those who claim that this is against the credit card terms and conditions I would like to see that documented. I've never seen proof of that. As far as I know there are no restrictions on who you can add as authorized users. I don't see this as any different than for example Clark Howard and others who recommend you add your child as AU to build their credit based on your credit history.
Good point. It's still true that the issuer can cancel your card for almost any reason. They could cancel the cards of known Bogleheads, for example. And they probably should, since not many of us pay fees or interest.
I've never bothered to read the cardholder agreements. You might be right that it's not in there. :D

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