Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

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coffeehubcap
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Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by coffeehubcap »

Has anyone had a good experience buying teeth grinding nightguards on line? I purchased my last guard from my dentist for $500, but that was years ago.
dbr
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by dbr »

Strange you should mention that. I took a flyer on these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01JN ... UTF8&psc=1 and found that they are bulky and uncomfortable to the point of being useless. I had no problem doing the processing to get them to fit. It is clear that anything generally similar would not work for me. My wife has a dentist made set which is an order of magnitude different being thinner, lighter, and less obtrusive.
captpete
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by captpete »

I use one that I got from walmart for sports it's just a mouth piece that you put in hot water then fit it to your mouth. They cost $2.00 and last 5 years. You'll grind though it eventually but it will take a while.
dbr
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by dbr »

captpete wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:14 pm I use one that I got from walmart for sports it's just a mouth piece that you put in hot water then fit it to your mouth. They cost $2.00 and last 5 years. You'll grind though it eventually but it will take a while.
Right, that is the kind of device I would never be able to wear through a night. There wouldn't be any grinding because I would never be asleep. Eventually I will need to invest the money to find out if the dentist made one actually works.
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topper1296
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by topper1296 »

I tried a generic one I bought at a store and it was awful. It was too big and bulky and keep my mouth open which led to drool on my pillow during the night and lost sleep. Spend the extra money and get a good one from the dentist.
deskjockey
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by deskjockey »

I'm currently using a generic store-bought mouth guard. It does the job and I still sleep well. That said, it is bulky and somewhat uncomfortable. Once it wears out, I think I'll upgrade to a customized-by-mail mouth guard. These are pricier that a store-bought one (about $80-150 online) but promise to be much closer to a dentist-bought mouth guard at a much lower price point. The way they work is that the company sends you a dental impression kit so you can make molds of your teeth, which you then mail back. They use the molds to create a custom mouth guard and mail it back to you. Overall, it seems like a good idea and a workable compromise.
dbr
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by dbr »

Just to quantify, the plastic in the nightguard my wife has from the dentist is about 1/10 the thickness of the plastic in the store bought one after molding. It doesn't have parts that cover the pallet or lie alongside the gums. The store bought one intrudes significantly along the pallet, upside the gums, and fills the mouth. The dentist one is fairly rigid while the store bought one is quite flexible. Both guards fit the teeth well if you mold the store bought one correctly. I have seen ads that claim you can send these things back after molding and have them shaved thinner, but I don't think you could get them thin enough to help because the material is too plastic (meaning deformable).
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jabberwockOG
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by jabberwockOG »

Amazon has various mouth guards for sale- some larger and thicker than others. I purchased 3-4 types of inexpensive guards, tried each out for a week or so, and use the one I liked best. Below is what I currently use. It is a little larger and has more give than the typical thin fairly hard shell that most dentists use - YMMV.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KY ... UTF8&psc=1
dbr
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by dbr »

jabberwockOG wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:22 pm Amazon has various mouth guards for sale- some larger and thicker than others. I purchased 3-4 types of inexpensive guards, tried each out for a week or so, and use the one I liked best. Below is what I currently use. It is a little larger and has more give than the typical thin fairly hard shell that most dentists use - YMMV.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KY ... UTF8&psc=1
Yes, that is actually the same product I tried but in a different package from a different vendor. It does not even remotely work for me. For a person that can use it, then good.
feehater
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by feehater »

I also tried the huge store bought ones and couldn't sleep and my jaw hurt. Then I tried the thin, hard mail-order ones from a website/dental lab. I think it cost around $100. Took it into my dentist and they said it was basically the same kind they get and charge $400 for. It's lasted about 5 years and is only now starting to crack/fall apart from the grinding.
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by Toons »

"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
JBTX
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by JBTX »

I had one made at the dentist, I think it was 200-$300, don't exactly remember. it is just a guard that goes on the top to prevent grinding. I wear it occasionally. It isn't bad but not terribly comfortable.

My wife got one and I think she paid a lot more than that from her dentist. I haven't even really looked at it yet.
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TxAg
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by TxAg »

Bought one from the dentist. $300. Now I never wear it but should.
Copper John
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by Copper John »

After buying several generic mouth guards that were never comfortable enough to wear I bought a laboratory made guard online. I bought mine in 2015 from an online company named "Pro Teeth Guard" for $160. My dentist quoted me over $400 at the time. The process involved using the putty they provided to make a mold of my teeth and shipping it back to them. They stated they would get it right and take as many molds as I needed to get a satisfactory fit. I ended up doing this twice and after the 2nd attempt I was satisfied with the fit and have worn the guard every night for the last 2 + years. They were an excellent company to deal with. Prompt replies to emails and quick turn around.
Last edited by Copper John on Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dbr
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by dbr »

TxAg wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:16 pm Bought one from the dentist. $300. Now I never wear it but should.
Yes, it remains to be seen if a dentist made guard is comfortable enough to wear either.
Copper John
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by Copper John »

dbr wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:31 pm
TxAg wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:16 pm Bought one from the dentist. $300. Now I never wear it but should.
Yes, it remains to be seen if a dentist made guard is comfortable enough to wear either.
My dental hygienist strongly advised me not to give up after a couple nights. She said it might take a week or two to get used to wearing it at night. I think she was right, but I never had to experience a sleepless night in this process. I would say it never is as comfortable as not having it in my mouth, but I can fall asleep and stay asleep and when morning comes I would describe the feeling of taking it out as the feeling I have when I take my shoes off.
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onthecusp
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by onthecusp »

Either kind certainly take commitment and getting used to. I started with a dentist made hard plastic guard and it lasted me many years. After many adjustments over the years it eventually needed to be replaced and I now use the store bought athletic soft guards. I do a fair bit of modification to make them work for me, I'm not sure but the experience with the dentist might make that easier for me. I've made about 4 of them since abandoning the hard guards, and showed my most recent one to my current dentist who says it looks fine to him. I bite down enough in the fitting process so that my teeth are very near each other.

The modification I make is to cut off all the vertical flanges using heavy duty scissors or a clean razor knife. The flat "bite surface" is then really floppy during the fitting process so be prepared to reheat and fiddle. I have wrecked one and had to start over. But once I have one that covers all my biting surface it is no more intrusive than a dentist made one. The edges cut by the scissors are often rough, these smooth out a little in the heating and fitting process and then wear down over time so there is often a little irritation of the rough surface on the inside of my cheeks for awhile. If they are way too big cut and reheat/refit. When I get a new crown or some such, reheat and bite down again and the same appliance is good for another year or three.
macheta
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by macheta »

I use the five dollar ones in the sporting good stores. I usually cut around the top since I don't need the gum guard so high up. I boil them for thirty seconds after cutting the guard down. Finally, I fit the boiled guard into my mouth.

Every couple of months I forget it somewhere and my dogs destroy them. I usually buy a couple at a time for that reason.
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F150HD
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by F150HD »

football mouthguard at Walmart $0.99. Used them for years. Chewed thru a few, but cheap to replace. Easy to remold by putting in hot water. No longer need one but for $500??? its a no brainer to me personally.
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ROIGuy
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by ROIGuy »

Had a soft one made a few weeks ago by my dentist. Cost me $250 after insurance, well worth it.
HIinvestor
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by HIinvestor »

My insurer covers part of the cost of our mouthguard as well. I got mine from the dentist. It's hard, thin and light. I've had it for several years and it has held up fine. Have never been tempted to buy it online--I am perfectly fine with paying for things related to my health and thus is one of them.
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by itstoomuch »

coffeehubcap wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:02 pm Has anyone had a good experience buying teeth grinding nightguards on line? I purchased my last guard from my dentist for $500, but that was years ago.
Will get mine later this month. :annoyed @700 :mrgreen: see the pearlies in the emoji. A glint of gold can be seen on either edge of the :dollar grim :dollar .
Big deductibles for F plan, and we are far beyond the threshold medical itemized deduction :annoyed :x .
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N10sive
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by N10sive »

I have one that I got from my dentist. Forgot how much it was but i has lasted me 7 years and probably at least another 3 more. The plus side is it still acts like a retainer, so if your concerned about straight teeth this is the way to go I think. IT might be a bit more expensive but well worth it to me. It is a little pain because most of the time you need to let it sit in hot water to become pliable to put on.
Icecakes
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by Icecakes »

Teethnightguard.com

It will run you about $180 for the quality of a $500 dentist lab guard. Same quality. I would not go cheaper with a boil and soak one. This is the real deal with a real mold sent to a lab.

I have severe bruxism and this one works.
Saving$
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by Saving$ »

N10sive wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:45 pm I have one that I got from my dentist. Forgot how much it was but i has lasted me 7 years and probably at least another 3 more. The plus side is it still acts like a retainer, so if your concerned about straight teeth this is the way to go I think. IT might be a bit more expensive but well worth it to me. It is a little pain because most of the time you need to let it sit in hot water to become pliable to put on.
This.

My first (dentist produced) guard in the early 2000's was $449 (insurance paid a portion), and somewhat large & bulky. I forgot it once when I went out of town, and my portion for the resulting crown was over $600.

I eventually almost ground through it, which caused the (same) dentist to suggest I get a new one. The new one is MUCH thinner than the original, and much easier to clean. It was also $385 (again, insurance paid a portion of that). I keep the old one in my travel bag in case I forget the new one - I'd like to avoid yet another crown and the associated expense.
BW1985
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by BW1985 »

The best one I had only covered my top front teeth, had a little piece that extended down creating a gap.. I lost it though. I've actually lost two and never bought another one. My old insurance paid 50% but my new insurance pays nothing. Can't bring myself to spend $400.
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jabberwockOG
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by jabberwockOG »

I am cheap and hate to pay silly high rate for a dentist made mouth guard but this was not really a budget issue. For me the smaller thin mouth guards did not work as well. The larger softer guards for me do a much better job then the thin guards of suppressing/stopping teeth/jaw clenching while asleep. I think as others have posted it is likely an individual preference and the way your anatomy and bruxism responds to a specific guard.
random_walker_77
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by random_walker_77 »

I have a dentist-made nightguard. It was expensive, several hundred $ when I got it back around 2001. But it's very rigid, thin, and with daily use of denture cleaner, it's still very clean. That said, it's worn down from grinding and I think I'm going to have to get another one in a year or two. Amortized over the last 16 years, I feel like I've gotten my money's worth.
ellink
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by ellink »

I'm with random walker. Mine was from the dentist. Cost ~$700 more than 10 years ago. I'm still using it. In fact, I can't sleep without it. I also tried the sports-type and they were unusable. The one I have now is fantastic and has really saved a lot of wear and tear on my teeth. I highly recommend getting a good one.
Doug E. Dee
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by Doug E. Dee »

My orthodontist charges $300 for a new set of retainers, clear plastic "Invisalign" type. Custom made in office and very comfortable.

Might be a good option.
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by BogleBoogie »

dbr wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:10 pm Strange you should mention that. I took a flyer on these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01JN ... UTF8&psc=1 and found that they are bulky and uncomfortable to the point of being useless. I had no problem doing the processing to get them to fit. It is clear that anything generally similar would not work for me. My wife has a dentist made set which is an order of magnitude different being thinner, lighter, and less obtrusive.
Same exact scenario here! Cheap online one that you mold at home was very uncomfortable. Dentist model was much more expensive, but very comfortable. This is a situation of you really get what you pay for. I'm not saying that the price the dentist charges if fair...it's hundreds of dollars for a little chunk of plastic after all! :?
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coffeehubcap
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by coffeehubcap »

Thank you all for taking the time to discuss this topic. I found it very helpful. Have a great day.
jayjayc
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by jayjayc »

I've been using the Sleep Right night guard for years. It took me awhile to find one that was comfortable enough to wear every night. I've had one 2 made from dentists but I found them too thick.

This nightguard is not meant to be as durable as the one made by your dentist. However, it is cheap and most importantly to me, it is very comfortable.

https://www.amazon.com/SleepRight-03362 ... guard&th=1
ProdigalSon
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by ProdigalSon »

I had a very bad experience with my dentist-made hard plastic nightguard. It acted like a set of braces and moved my teeth around to the point where my bite no longer lines up. The first symptom of this was extreme sensitivity to just about everything--heat, cold, sweets, salt, alchohol, acidic foods, cleanings by the hygienist. I had never had a problem with sensitivity before.

I switched to Plackers Grind-No-More disposable nightguards purchased from Amazon and I am very happy with them. They are inexpensive, comfortable, and prevent my teeth from grinding.

Since I stopped using my original mouthguard the sensitivity has returned to normal but my teeth remain in their new positions. I wish I had found the Plackers mouthguards before I ever used my dentist-made guard.
cody69
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by cody69 »

My dentist recommended one for a number of years, and I finally decided to give it a try.
Wow... I really like it. It is quite small and unobtrusive.
When I get up in the morning, I will often forget I have it in and only remember when I have a cup of coffee.

It goes on the bottom, not the top.
It is fitted so the back molars never touch, so apparently no grinding takes place.

As a bonus, it lessens my snoring, which makes DW very happy.

I joked with the dentist it is snake oil, saved my marriage and saved my teeth.
heybro
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by heybro »

Oh! I really want to jump in here.

I used to grind my teeth real bad at night. Like real bad.

Nightguards would either fall out of my mouth or I'd grind them down so fast too!

What helped me was to see someone who could actually loosen up my muscles in my shoulders, neck, chest, and jaw. They actually put their hands in my mouth and worked open my cheeks and jaw. I stopped being so tight.

Not being so tight meant that during the day, I stopped clenching myself. Humans perform everything at night that they did during the day. So, if you stop clenching during the day, you'll stop at night.

Anyways, I haven't been grinding since.

Something to consider! And it will probably help you with all sorts of other things too!
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JPH
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by JPH »

Some research on the subject here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16873325

There are a wide variety of professional opinions on the topic.
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nickjoy
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by nickjoy »

I got one from my dentist a few months ago. I think I only paid 50-70 bucks for it. I think it's great. It clips onto the top and I cannot spit it out. Before I would try the sports mouthguards but I would always find them on the floor in the morning which made them worthless. I can already feel my teeth being less sensitive from less grinding.

The dentist built it up right around my canines so that they would take any pressure that wasn't molar on molar. Apparently the canines are your teeth that can handle the most pressure.

My jaw muscles are also a lot less sore in the morning. They pretty much don't hurt anymore. Before I would wake up 2 days a week with a super sore jaw.

$400 is a lot, but your teeth have to last you till you die, and dentures are not fun. If they were, everyone would get them.

My $0.02
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by itstoomuch »

deskjockey wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:40 pm I'm currently using a generic store-bought mouth guard. It does the job and I still sleep well. That said, it is bulky and somewhat uncomfortable. Once it wears out, I think I'll upgrade to a customized-by-mail mouth guard. These are pricier that a store-bought one (about $80-150 online) but promise to be much closer to a dentist-bought mouth guard at a much lower price point. The way they work is that the company sends you a dental impression kit so you can make molds of your teeth, which you then mail back. They use the molds to create a custom mouth guard and mail it back to you. Overall, it seems like a good idea and a workable compromise.
Source please. eBay, Amazon, Walmart, Costco? PM or open reply. It would seem that $700 current is much higher.😘😀
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by flyingaway »

I bought two and have one custom-made by the dentist. The problem is that I could not remember to put it on at bed time. So now I forget I have them.
SR II
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by SR II »

ellink wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:13 am I'm with random walker. Mine was from the dentist. Cost ~$700 more than 10 years ago. I'm still using it. In fact, I can't sleep without it. I also tried the sports-type and they were unusable. The one I have now is fantastic and has really saved a lot of wear and tear on my teeth. I highly recommend getting a good one.
I'm with you!

Years ago, I noticed most of my teeth were chipped from grinding my teeth in my sleep. My dentist at the time said I was forming a natural glide path for my teeth. Yeah, right.

A few years later, when I got married and my spouse couldn't stand the sound of "a Russian army marching down a gravel driveway outside our bedroom window" all night, my dentist made my first nightguard. It fit on my upper teeth, was fairly thin, fairly rigid and held in place throughout the night.

Almost 34 years and only a handful of replacements later, I can't sleep without one!

I have tried the thick store-bought moldable kind in a pinch, when I've ground through a "real" one and I'm waiting for a new dentist-made one to arrive. I haven't had any luck with the soft silicon ones. They are like chewing on a rubber band all night. The squeaking sound alone drives me nuts.

I will gladly pay hundreds of dollars for the dentist-made version for a good nights sleep!
deskjockey
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by deskjockey »

itstoomuch wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:42 am
deskjockey wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:40 pm I'm currently using a generic store-bought mouth guard. It does the job and I still sleep well. That said, it is bulky and somewhat uncomfortable. Once it wears out, I think I'll upgrade to a customized-by-mail mouth guard. These are pricier that a store-bought one (about $80-150 online) but promise to be much closer to a dentist-bought mouth guard at a much lower price point. The way they work is that the company sends you a dental impression kit so you can make molds of your teeth, which you then mail back. They use the molds to create a custom mouth guard and mail it back to you. Overall, it seems like a good idea and a workable compromise.
Source please. eBay, Amazon, Walmart, Costco? PM or open reply. It would seem that $700 current is much higher.😘😀
I was thinking of either this one from Amazon or teethnightguard.com, which was mentioned in another post.
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coffeehubcap
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by coffeehubcap »

I purchased mine from teethguard.com a few days ago for $126. I'll let you know what I think of it after I go through the fitting form and getting the hard acrylic thin size. I could've gone for double the thickness but decided I'd try this one out.
BW1985
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by BW1985 »

coffeehubcap wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:16 pm I purchased mine from teethguard.com a few days ago for $126. I'll let you know what I think of it after I go through the fitting form and getting the hard acrylic thin size. I could've gone for double the thickness but decided I'd try this one out.
I will be looking for your update. Thanks
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itstoomuch
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by itstoomuch »

itstoomuch wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:35 pm
coffeehubcap wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:02 pm Has anyone had a good experience buying teeth grinding nightguards on line? I purchased my last guard from my dentist for $500, but that was years ago.
Will get mine later this month. :annoyed @700 :mrgreen: see the pearlies in the emoji. A glint of gold can be seen on either edge of the :dollar grim :dollar .
Big deductibles for F plan, and we are far beyond the threshold medical itemized deduction :annoyed
It came in at $450. I get to keep the mold :annoyed and get double points on my Amazon CC :mrgreen: .
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coffeehubcap
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Re: Update Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by coffeehubcap »

My experience went very well. You really need to follow the instructions for impression molding. Timing is everything and use all the mixing compound. I didn't and I was missing some impression on my front teeth but they did ok on the night guard. Mine is very comfortable compared to the one my dentist made. I thought the thinness of the guard was really thin and I'm not sure how long it will last. I thought I would crack it in a few nights but so far so good. If I do another one in the future I will get the thicker model for an addition charge of $25 or 35.

If you screw up your impression it will cost another $12 to get the mixing compounds to repeat the process. They send two sizes of impression trays. They will also keep your impression on file for free for so many days or they'll charge you a small amount to keep it on file for 5 years...I think. Check out this stuff if you're interested. I'll probably pay the extra charge but won't initiate it until the free period is over. If I crack this one during that free time period I'll let you know.

www.teethnightguard.com I'm a verified buyer.
saigonian
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Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by saigonian »

I used sentinel mouthguards. It's the closet quality to dentist office 's product with 1/4 of the price.
2015
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Re: Update Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by 2015 »

coffeehubcap wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:02 pm My experience went very well. You really need to follow the instructions for impression molding. Timing is everything and use all the mixing compound. I didn't and I was missing some impression on my front teeth but they did ok on the night guard. Mine is very comfortable compared to the one my dentist made. I thought the thinness of the guard was really thin and I'm not sure how long it will last. I thought I would crack it in a few nights but so far so good. If I do another one in the future I will get the thicker model for an addition charge of $25 or 35.

If you screw up your impression it will cost another $12 to get the mixing compounds to repeat the process. They send two sizes of impression trays. They will also keep your impression on file for free for so many days or they'll charge you a small amount to keep it on file for 5 years...I think. Check out this stuff if you're interested. I'll probably pay the extra charge but won't initiate it until the free period is over. If I crack this one during that free time period I'll let you know.

www.teethnightguard.com I'm a verified buyer.
I tried this same methodology with Pro Teeth Guard and positively hated the experience mixing, fitting and all. I will say PTG was very good about promptly refunding the entirety of my money, even after two tries of fitting, impressions not working out, them sending me new molds, compounds, etc., and it again not working out. I bit the bullet and went back to my dentist.
masteraleph
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Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:45 am

Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by masteraleph »

I chewed through my original one from the dentist after a couple of years. She decided to try a hard one, which I ended up biting through and cracking after about two weeks- her jaw dropped when she saw that, and she said "I've never seen anyone do that before." Got replaced with a new one that is soft, but thicker than the original, and is still functional after about 3 years. I definitely find my jaw and all of the muscles around it feel better after using it- going on a trip and forgetting it was not a pleasant experience.
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Tyler9000
Posts: 740
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:57 am

Re: Buying nightguards (teeth grinding)

Post by Tyler9000 »

jayjayc wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:36 pm I've been using the Sleep Right night guard for years. It took me awhile to find one that was comfortable enough to wear every night. I've had one 2 made from dentists but I found them too thick.

This nightguard is not meant to be as durable as the one made by your dentist. However, it is cheap and most importantly to me, it is very comfortable.

https://www.amazon.com/SleepRight-03362 ... guard&th=1
+1

This is the best one I have ever used, by far. Very simple, comfortable, and effective.
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