The 10 year car ownership "rule"

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TD2626
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by TD2626 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:00 am

The Wizard wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:37 am
TD2626 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:18 am

The depreciation expense on new cars is staggering...
Not really. The COST of new cars is staggering...
Wouldn't you add the value of the car to your net worth, such that when you bought the car, net worth wouldn't go down by much (except by the significant depreciation caused by driving it off the lot)? The net worth would decrease over time as it was impacted by the depreciating value of the vehicle.

Note: I tend to think in terms of two frameworks: "portfolio value" which is the value of liquid assets (stocks/bonds/cash), and "total net worth" which is "net" calculation and includes portfolio + illiquid assets / possessions in use.

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Uncle Pennybags
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by Uncle Pennybags » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:05 am

bovineplane wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:30 am
Uncle Pennybags wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:09 pm
A police car could never last 10 years but a fire truck has a much longer useful life.
Not sure I agree.
I said Mayberry is the exception not the rule.
TD2626 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:00 am
Wouldn't you add the value of the car to your net worth, ...
No. I also don't count my snow blower in my net worth.

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englishgirl
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by englishgirl » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:19 am

I have kept 10 years in my head as something to aim for with car ownership. I must have got that from here so I think while "rule" is a bit too strong, maybe "general average of what everyone else seems to be doing" may be more accurate. I think for me it is more a combination of age, mileage and condition. My last car I kept for 100k, which was about 8.5 years. I had a lot of problems with it the last 6 months. This car is coming up on 100k now at only 8 years but it is doing fine so I will keep going with it in the hopes to hit 10 years.

My husband drives a fleet car, and they are changed out at 150k. For him that is 18 months. So, umm, yeah. I guess I will try to aim for 150k or 10 years, whichever comes first. Or lots of breakdowns.
Sarah

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midareff
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by midareff » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:25 am

I've kept cars more than ten years and others less. When I feel uncomfortable about a cars reliability I consider it time for it to go. OTOH, I have changed cars just because I wanted something different too.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:38 am

stemikger wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:38 am
Never heard of this rule, but I do it because a car (for most average people) is the second biggest purchase they will make.
Hmmmm....for me in order of cost:

1) College for kids
2) (by a long shot) house
3) car (by a factor of 10)

But I own a 30 mpg Crosstrek that cost $21k, not a pigeon wing Model X that costs $80k and saves me 8 cents over 100 miles in fuel (I've done the math).
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by MI_bogle » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:23 am

UKFred wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:22 am
We buy a one-year old car and sell it the second time it breaks down. That tends to be around the 7 year mark.
What kind of cars are you buying that have 2 breakdowns by year 7??

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jabberwockOG
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by jabberwockOG » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:47 am

We currently have 3 cars a 2004, 2006, and 2007. All have been garage kept, run like new and look great. We plan to keep them for at least 5-7 more years (at a minimum).

I'd suggest that most modern cars (mid 90s and newer) can easily go 15-20 years and still be very reliable if they are well maintained and garaged. However cars that live outside full time in the rust belt and/or other extreme conditions likely still need to be replaced around 10 years or sooner due to reliability and major cosmetic issues.

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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by queso » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:52 am

10 years is just getting broken in! I have a 12 year old Pilot and am hoping to get 15 or 20 out of it. Glad someone brought up the venerable Crown Vic! If you ask my father in law he'll tell you I have a "new car". He owns two Crown Vics and drives them off and on when he isn't driving one of the other relics in his ancient fleet of vehicles. One of them was my wife's first car and it was used and "old" when he bought it for her over 20 years ago! Then it was my sister in law's first car and then my brother in law's first car and now it's his car again and runs just fine. Then again, when cars were cars and not iPads on wheels they were a lot easier to maintain and work on and didn't follow the same obsolescence curve that comes with all that technology.

tampaite
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by tampaite » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:08 am

kamikazekid wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:22 am

I guess I am just curious to know when is the optimal time to sell one's car. I have a sedan with 70k and a SUV with 120k miles on it. Both Hondas.
Simple. Once it hits 200K -> time to re-evaluate.

thangngo
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by thangngo » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:00 am

I'm one of the people who know cars. I took time to educate myself about car repair & maintenance. I maintain my car well and can recognize when there is a problem. With that said, I can keep the car however long I want. There are many options: pass down to a family member, sell it at good price when opportunity presents itself, keep driving it, or get a car I want.

The only rule I follow is to keep the cost of car ownership in 2000-2500 range annually.

I know certain people that buy reliable brands such as Toyota and Honda but know nothing about car maintenance. Their cars broke down 3-5 years. $30,000 spread over 5 years -- $6,000 a year <-- expensive price to pay for Japanese cars.

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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by tampaite » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:36 am

thangngo wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:00 am

I know certain people that buy reliable brands such as Toyota and Honda but know nothing about car maintenance. Their cars broke down 3-5 years. $30,000 spread over 5 years -- $6,000 a year <-- expensive price to pay for Japanese cars.
they buy reliable brand but cars broke down ?

If you buy unreliable brand and still do your own car maintenance, there is cost associated with it( your time & effort ) and I hope it's worth $$$ something.

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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by vinnydabody » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:26 pm

Bungo wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:09 pm
I replaced my 2004 Civic Hybrid this year because California started smog checking hybrids, and mine couldn't pass because the check engine light was on due to failing hybrid battery. Replaced it with a non-hybrid CRV; maybe this one will make it to 15 years. :mrgreen:
This is the main driver for the "keep or buy another" equation on our 2002 Toyota as emission system components begin to fail. Runs fine but running fine doesn't matter if you can't pass emission testing and consequently can't get the license plate renewed. Shelling out $2000 or so to replace a bunch of sensors on a 15-year old vehicle with 200k miles may not pass the prudent investor test.

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bottlecap
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by bottlecap » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:12 pm

tampaite wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:36 am
If you buy unreliable brand and still do your own car maintenance, there is cost associated with it( your time & effort ) and I hope it's worth $$$ something.
"Reliability" of any car will not be great if you don't do maintenance. Sure, you might be fine for 3-5 years, but then your inattentiveness will come back to haunt you.

The time and effort acquiring a minimal amount of knowledge are well worth it. For very little effort, you can:

1. Save money and time on repairs ($1,000s);
2. Avoid having to post your car problems on the internet (Hours);
3. Largely avoid being left stranded somewhere ($$ and hours); and
4. Avoid feeling like you have to lease or buy a new car for fear on being left stranded ($10,000s every 3-5 years).

Just a little knowledge saves time, money, and, occasionally, life and limb.

JT

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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by tampaite » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:19 pm

bottlecap wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:12 pm
tampaite wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:36 am
If you buy unreliable brand and still do your own car maintenance, there is cost associated with it( your time & effort ) and I hope it's worth $$$ something.
"Reliability" of any car will not be great if you don't do maintenance. Sure, you might be fine for 3-5 years, but then your inattentiveness will come back to haunt you.
You are missing the point. who thinks cars are reliable if you don't do maintenance ?? how can you be fine for 3-5 years without maintenance?

The Q was buying reliable brand vs unreliable brand. With reliable brand and maintenance, you can stretch life of anything.
with unreliable brand and constant maintenace, you'll have poor chances of long term viability.
Last edited by tampaite on Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Wizard
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by The Wizard » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:21 pm

TD2626 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:00 am

Wouldn't you add the value of the car to your net worth, such that when you bought the car, net worth wouldn't go down by much (except by the significant depreciation caused by driving it off the lot)?
A couple of points here:
First, I don't worry about or compute my Net Worth. My only financial metrics of concern are my monthly/annual income and my investible assets.

Secondly, I look at most of my consumer purchases as done deals. Whether clothing, televisions, power tools, or motor vehicles, they last some number of years until they break, wear out, or become obsolete and then get tossed.
The fact that my 2016 F-150 cost 100 times more than my sliding compound mitre saw does not confer Exalted Status on it *.

Thirdly, some new cars apparently don't lose much resale value the first two years. This is second hand info from others on the forum here who try to buy a two year old Honda or Toyota, only to find the price not that much lower than a new car.
As noted, this doesn't apply to me since I neither buy nor sell late model used cars...

* - OK fine, I lied. My F-150 does have higher status than my mitre saw, but only as long as it works properly and doesn't start to crumble...
Last edited by The Wizard on Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bottlecap
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by bottlecap » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:33 pm

tampaite wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:19 pm
bottlecap wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:12 pm
tampaite wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:36 am
If you buy unreliable brand and still do your own car maintenance, there is cost associated with it( your time & effort ) and I hope it's worth $$$ something.
"Reliability" of any car will not be great if you don't do maintenance. Sure, you might be fine for 3-5 years, but then your inattentiveness will come back to haunt you.
You are missing the point. who thinks cars are reliable if you don't do maintenance ?? how can you be fine for 3-5 years without maintenance?

The Q was buying reliable brand vs unreliable brand. With reliable brand and maintenance, you can stretch life of anything.
with unreliable brand and constant maintenace, you'll have poor chances of long term viability.
You're right, I missed your point. I think I'm still missing it after your explanation. But you also cropped out "my point" when you replied.

But I wouldn't be very surprised if the average car nowadays could run 3+ years without maintenance, perhaps even oil changes, without breaking down. It's not going to give you much of a shot at long term reliability, but I bet it could be done.

JT

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KlingKlang
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by KlingKlang » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:29 pm

Watty wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:47 pm
One thing that I have found is that by replacing my car before I have to, I can wait and replace it when I can find a great deal on my next car. The last car I replaced was only nine years old but I went on and replaced it when I found a great deal on a model year end close out. I could have waited a couple of years for a great deal to come along if I needed to. I have had to replace a car in a hurry and while I was able to get an OK deal I could have gotten a lot better deal if I was not in a hurry to buy a car.
I wish that I was smart/car savvy enough to make this work. Unfortunately I always seem to have to replace my car because of a catastrophic failure - either a breakdown in the middle of a blizzard or an accident that totals it.

honda_solo
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by honda_solo » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:33 pm

I wouldn't say there is a general rule that fits everyone's situation. I purchased a new Honda Civic in 2006, through the Costco auto buying program, and had no problems with it until it reached 288,000 miles, then the engine blocked cracked due to a manufacturing defect. Honda extended the warranty for 10 years from the date of purchase for all civics from 2006-2009; I purchased the car on February 2006 and the block cracked in April 2016, two months after the warranty expired!

I asked for some consideration from Honda Corporate, based on my customer loyalty, to have the repairs partly covered but they denied all my requests. The dealer wanted $5000 to replace the engine with a used one and only offered a 6 month warranty, I said "NO THANKS!"

So now I felt Honda got one over on me and I had egg on my face for touting to all my family and friends how reliable Honda cars were. I was stuck with an old car with a bad engine. I wasn't ready to give up my commute car, I needed it for work as I travel 145 miles per day round trip. Rather then invest in a new car I purchased a used engine and transmission from a 2011 civic on ebay for $1400. By 2011 the manufacturing engine defect was remedied by Honda. Being mechanically inclined I replaced the engine & transmission myself and now I have over 315,000 miles on the civic and its still going strong. When my civic reaches 500,000 miles I will consider replacing it, or not!

As long as you maintain your vehicles and are willing to take on repairs I would definitely keep the car until the wheels fall off! My civic still looks decent and gets me from point A to point B and is good on gas. Ever since I found bogleheads.org I just can't justify a car purchase, that is until my kids go to college. I tell them to take care of the civic and keep it clean because someday this car will be theirs. Then I'll buy a new car.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/new ... /index.htm
Last edited by honda_solo on Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by wrongfunds » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:24 am

If there is *another* BH in this forum who can replace (and have replaced) his own engine on his car, please stand up! I have a feeling that you are THE ONLY ONE here!! Average BH can NOT change his own brake pads if his life depended on it.

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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by bloom2708 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:36 am

I think I am approaching an age where I "could" keep a car for 10 years. Not sure if I "want" to keep a car that long.

Having moved through the various stages of being single, getting married, having 3 kids, car seats, booster seats, car pooling, it meant we changed vehicles more than we would like to.

We had a Mazda mini-van for 7 years. That was the longest run. We also went through a "camping" stage so we needed something bigger that could tow a camper. We also found out with 4 females in the family we aren't much for camping. :oops:

My one grandpa bought a new vehicle every fall (farmer). My dad also was a prolific vehicle trader. So perhaps I just have the genes for car changing. :wink:
Last edited by bloom2708 on Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by UKFred » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:27 am

MI_bogle wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:23 am
UKFred wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:22 am
We buy a one-year old car and sell it the second time it breaks down. That tends to be around the 7 year mark.
What kind of cars are you buying that have 2 breakdowns by year 7??
It's been varied. Ford, Peugeot, Toyota. They are maintained regularly, so the breakdowns are usually fairly straightforward and cheap to fix (a battery fault, engine management light comes on, whatever) but my wife falls out of love with them at that point :(

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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by Bungo » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:34 am

wrongfunds wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:24 am
If there is *another* BH in this forum who can replace (and have replaced) his own engine on his car, please stand up! I have a feeling that you are THE ONLY ONE here!! Average BH can NOT change his own brake pads if his life depended on it.
I don't even change my own oil! I'm a big fan of efficient division of labor. I don't expect my mechanic to write his own smartphone software, and he doesn't expect me to service my own car. We both get to enjoy more leisure time as a result. :D

book lover
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by book lover » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:37 pm

There seems to be so many variables to buying a car that a ten year rule may not apply plus Bogleheads would seem to be outliers when it comes to this type of decision.Commute time, number and age of people riding in vehicle, highway vs street driving, SUV versus buying a lighter vehicle and technological innovation the options and situations seem endless.

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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by roflwaffle » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:44 pm

wrongfunds wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:24 am
If there is *another* BH in this forum who can replace (and have replaced) his own engine on his car, please stand up! I have a feeling that you are THE ONLY ONE here!! Average BH can NOT change his own brake pads if his life depended on it.
Yo! I've done a variety of repairs/maintenance, including swapping a gasoline engine with a diesel that had to be inspected/approved by a CA BAR referee. I imagine there's as much variability on the BH forums as in the world at large. Most people can't change their own brake pads, some can.

In terms of the 10 year ownership rule, that depends on the person/situation. Currently, I have many cars over 10 years of age, but I do the vast majority of maintenance/repairs myself in a cost effective manner. What someone has the ability and desire to do varies, as does their own version of that rule. At some point I'm going to sell/give away some of my cars because I don't need as many as I have and there are on occasion a new model or two I want.

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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by lazydavid » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:51 pm

buccimane wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:36 pm
There are absolutely crown vics still active over a decade old in departments. It's already been half a decade since the newest model rolled out of the factory
Yep, the very last Crown Vic rolled off the assembly line exactly six years and one week ago. Though that specific one is not on patrol service (never was), many produced prior to it still are.

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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by lazydavid » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:06 pm

wrongfunds wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:24 am
If there is *another* BH in this forum who can replace (and have replaced) his own engine on his car, please stand up! I have a feeling that you are THE ONLY ONE here!! Average BH can NOT change his own brake pads if his life depended on it.
I certainly can't replace an engine, but brake pads are a breeze, along with many other services. I actually replaced the full suspension on my 3 series.

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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by foamypirate » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:22 pm

wrongfunds wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:24 am
If there is *another* BH in this forum who can replace (and have replaced) his own engine on his car, please stand up! I have a feeling that you are THE ONLY ONE here!! Average BH can NOT change his own brake pads if his life depended on it.
Standing up! In fact, I went one step further, and put an engine and transmission out of a 2005 GMC pickup into my 1988 Chevrolet pickup.

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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by bottlecap » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:50 pm

UKFred wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:27 am
MI_bogle wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:23 am
UKFred wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:22 am
We buy a one-year old car and sell it the second time it breaks down. That tends to be around the 7 year mark.
What kind of cars are you buying that have 2 breakdowns by year 7??
It's been varied. Ford, Peugeot, Toyota. They are maintained regularly, so the breakdowns are usually fairly straightforward and cheap to fix (a battery fault, engine management light comes on, whatever) but my wife falls out of love with them at that point :(
That mystery is explained! You set the bar pretty low when you consider a CEL light or a dead battery a "breakdown"...

JT

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StevieG72
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by StevieG72 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:02 pm

I prefer cents per mile vs. 10yr rule.

If I spend $20,000 on a car, my goal is 200,000 miles.

My current vehicle was over $30,000 so my goal is 300,000 miles. Its a Toyota so I have no doubt that it can turn 300,000.
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by visualguy » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:53 pm

It's a tricky time now because of the technological shift to electric vehicles. If I bought an internal combustion car now, I wouldn't keep it for 10 years... I think there will be compelling EVs in 4-5 years (I don't like any of the ones that are available right now.) Something with the drivetrain of a Tesla, but the features, controls, and interior of a luxury German or Japanese car is what I'm waiting for...

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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by N1CKV » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:04 am

wrongfunds wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:24 am
If there is *another* BH in this forum who can replace (and have replaced) his own engine on his car, please stand up! I have a feeling that you are THE ONLY ONE here!! Average BH can NOT change his own brake pads if his life depended on it.
I haven't had to change my own, but I have changed the engines in several vehicles for friends over the years (I am an Accountant, not a professional mechanic).

As for 10 yr rule.... my current vehicle is a 2009 with 104K miles. I'll probably keep it to 10 years and beyond unless I get bored with it. It has never broke down. It has all the original parts except the battery (which was changed proactively), windshield wipers, tires and rear brake shoes (at about 100K miles).
The front brakes are original, as is the serpentine belt. Unlike a Honda or Toyota that needs a timing belt/water pump change that is "routine maintenance".
I probably should change the sparkplugs, but it doesn't even sputter so I'm not in a hurry.
Did I mention it is a GMC Sierra. Yeah, GM makes a great vehicle. It is a 4X4. I drive it often on logging roads. I drive it hard. I tow heavy loads with it (40+ hp tractors, RV trailer).
The only regular maintenance it receives is regular oil/filter changes (every 5K miles), air filter as needed and I changed most of the fluids at 100K as part of scheduled maintenance.
I have met a lot of people that claim to love money, but they also seem to be the same people that are in the biggest hurry to get rid of it.

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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by an_asker » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:15 am

kamikazekid wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:22 am
I have been reading a fair bit on this forum about buying a car and then either driving it to the ground or holding it for long periods of time like 10 years. My question is - would this thumb rule change based on purchase price of the car? e.g. Spend 25k, hold for 10 years, spent 20 k, hold for 8 years, spent 40 k hold for 15 years.
I guess I am just curious to know when is the optimal time to sell one's car. I have a sedan with 70k and a SUV with 120k miles on it. Both Hondas.
Thanks !@
Funnily enough, I started a very similar thread a while back. I wonder if folks who replied then have changed their opinion :-)

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dm200
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by dm200 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:20 am

I cannot cite a reference, but I believe that the "recommended" maintenence/service costs for some (perhaps many) more expensive brands and models are higher than for modest price brands and models.

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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by rec7 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:53 pm

I think 10 years is a good for most people. Some can even get more life. Some people are getting a new car every few years. I think the 10 year rule is aimed at them.
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Texanbybirth
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by Texanbybirth » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:07 pm

I'm not sure about a 10-year rule, but safety is a major concern for us. I happened to have my last car for 10 years. Actually, my wife bought it and I inherited it from her upon our wedding day. It was a 2007 Toyota Yaris, and we got rid of it for major safety reasons (no side airbags) for a....2017 Yaris iA! We plan on this car lasting our family situation 5 years, and we're financially planning as such. We thought it was worth the pit stop to get me (as the sole-breadwinner) into a much safer car.

We bought my wife a new 2016 Odyssey, and we plan for that car to last closer to 10 years at least. Based on her driving habits, it will probably have much less than 100,000 miles at that point. I'm not sure how many kids people can safely fit into an Odyssey, but we're determined to find out. :happy

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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by bottlecap » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:45 pm

an_asker wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:15 am
kamikazekid wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:22 am
I have been reading a fair bit on this forum about buying a car and then either driving it to the ground or holding it for long periods of time like 10 years. My question is - would this thumb rule change based on purchase price of the car? e.g. Spend 25k, hold for 10 years, spent 20 k, hold for 8 years, spent 40 k hold for 15 years.
I guess I am just curious to know when is the optimal time to sell one's car. I have a sedan with 70k and a SUV with 120k miles on it. Both Hondas.
Thanks !@
Funnily enough, I started a very similar thread a while back. I wonder if folks who replied then have changed their opinion :-)
I didn't respond there, so I don't know to whom you refer. But the assumption is very different in that thread - that a more expensive vehicle will last longer.

The question - not the assumption - here is whether you should sell a less expensive car sooner.

JT

bayview
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by bayview » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:47 pm

hulburt1 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:27 pm
4 cars buy new-(1995-223000,2004-170000,2007-122222 and a 1972 vw 25000 on engine)-I rent now when I take trips.
+1 for the renting option. Let Enterprise eat that mileage.

One car for two of us, 2002 Honda Accord, 220k+ miles, bought used in 2009, runs perfectly. * knock wood *
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri

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dm200
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by dm200 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:02 pm

bayview wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:47 pm
hulburt1 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:27 pm
4 cars buy new-(1995-223000,2004-170000,2007-122222 and a 1972 vw 25000 on engine)-I rent now when I take trips.
+1 for the renting option. Let Enterprise eat that mileage.

One car for two of us, 2002 Honda Accord, 220k+ miles, bought used in 2009, runs perfectly. * knock wood *
Yes, I have rented from Enterprise a few times in the last few years. The unlimited mileage with a low daily rate can be a really good deal - IF you can go with one of the lower price - smaller cars. Often, even if you reserve (and pay for) the lower price models - they provide a larger model -- BUT, you cannot count on it.

pc95
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by pc95 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:17 pm

Not just ownership, but maintenance cost. Has anyone kept a detailed log of all fuel and maintenance actions? I'm sure many do or have. I'm willing to bet over 20 years fuel and maintenance doubles up the total cost of the vehicle. For me if I've had a car a long time (more than 10 years), I start to look at maintenance cost vs vehicle resale value. When they get close to equal, I think about buying a "newer" car. I've never bought brand new, always 2-4 year old pre-owned.

Helo80
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by Helo80 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:33 pm

pc95 wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:17 pm
Not just ownership, but maintenance cost. Has anyone kept a detailed log of all fuel and maintenance actions? I'm sure many do or have. I'm willing to bet over 20 years fuel and maintenance doubles up the total cost of the vehicle. For me if I've had a car a long time (more than 10 years), I start to look at maintenance cost vs vehicle resale value.

Maintenance and the chances of a catastrophic failure occurring are why I have reconsidered owning a vehicle and driving it until the wheels fall off with upgrading every 80K to 140k miles. I'm decently handy, but I don't have the time nor interest in keeping a vehicle past its prime anymore.

It's one of those things where many engines will easily do 200K miles or more today if properly maintained. But, from reading the comments on some car repair threads in this forum, I get the impression that some here thing proper maintenance is changing the oil at scheduled intervals and maybe changing an air filter every once in a while. (PS - my dad is the same way... won't do proper maintenance until it breaks/fails... I'm more on the theory that I'd rather repair something when it's convenient for me and it's getting to be about time to replace anyways.)

angelescrest
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by angelescrest » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:21 pm

With the newer Toyotas, there is hardly any maintenance needed until 100,000 miles. Up until that point it's really fluids and inspections.

emoore
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by emoore » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:24 pm

angelescrest wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:21 pm
With the newer Toyotas, there is hardly any maintenance needed until 100,000 miles. Up until that point it's really fluids and inspections.
That's pretty much any car these days.

an_asker
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by an_asker » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:41 am

bottlecap wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:45 pm
an_asker wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:15 am
kamikazekid wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:22 am
I have been reading a fair bit on this forum about buying a car and then either driving it to the ground or holding it for long periods of time like 10 years. My question is - would this thumb rule change based on purchase price of the car? e.g. Spend 25k, hold for 10 years, spent 20 k, hold for 8 years, spent 40 k hold for 15 years.
I guess I am just curious to know when is the optimal time to sell one's car. I have a sedan with 70k and a SUV with 120k miles on it. Both Hondas.
Thanks !@
Funnily enough, I started a very similar thread a while back. I wonder if folks who replied then have changed their opinion :-)
I didn't respond there, so I don't know to whom you refer. But the assumption is very different in that thread - that a more expensive vehicle will last longer.

The question - not the assumption - here is whether you should sell a less expensive car sooner.

JT
Got it!

BTW, I was not specifically refer to any person. Was just wondering if folks had changed their mind since they responded to my question. But that's a moot point (at least with respect to the responses on this thread) because, like you pointed out, there is a slight difference in the questions.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:36 am

Texanbybirth wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:07 pm
I'm not sure about a 10-year rule, but safety is a major concern for us. I happened to have my last car for 10 years. Actually, my wife bought it and I inherited it from her upon our wedding day. It was a 2007 Toyota Yaris, and we got rid of it for major safety reasons (no side airbags) for a....2017 Yaris iA! We plan on this car lasting our family situation 5 years, and we're financially planning as such. We thought it was worth the pit stop to get me (as the sole-breadwinner) into a much safer car.

We bought my wife a new 2016 Odyssey, and we plan for that car to last closer to 10 years at least. Based on her driving habits, it will probably have much less than 100,000 miles at that point. I'm not sure how many kids people can safely fit into an Odyssey, but we're determined to find out. :happy
You bring up a very important point!

I would have no issues changing vehicles to snag some of the useful safety feature car companies are rolling out today.

As it is, some features have already trickled down to the lower priced car segment.

That's easy for me to say at this point in my life. A younger, poorer me might not have been able to change vehicles more often.

But, today I wouldn't be so eager to run a vehicle into the ground, one that might hasten ME or loved ones ending up in the ground. :shock:

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven than I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

Texanbybirth
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by Texanbybirth » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:20 pm

Broken Man 1999 wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:36 am
Texanbybirth wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:07 pm
I'm not sure about a 10-year rule, but safety is a major concern for us. I happened to have my last car for 10 years. Actually, my wife bought it and I inherited it from her upon our wedding day. It was a 2007 Toyota Yaris, and we got rid of it for major safety reasons (no side airbags) for a....2017 Yaris iA! We plan on this car lasting our family situation 5 years, and we're financially planning as such. We thought it was worth the pit stop to get me (as the sole-breadwinner) into a much safer car.

We bought my wife a new 2016 Odyssey, and we plan for that car to last closer to 10 years at least. Based on her driving habits, it will probably have much less than 100,000 miles at that point. I'm not sure how many kids people can safely fit into an Odyssey, but we're determined to find out. :happy
You bring up a very important point!

I would have no issues changing vehicles to snag some of the useful safety feature car companies are rolling out today.

As it is, some features have already trickled down to the lower priced car segment.

That's easy for me to say at this point in my life. A younger, poorer me might not have been able to change vehicles more often.

But, today I wouldn't be so eager to run a vehicle into the ground, one that might hasten ME or loved ones ending up in the ground. :shock:

Broken Man 1999
Tech features (Apple CarPlay, wife hotspot, wireless charging ports), and some of the more aesthetic improvements in vehicles (like parking assist and auto-park) aren't really important to me, but I can honestly say I wasn't aware of how much safety has been packed into cars in the last 5-7 years. I made use of the IIHS and NHTSA research, along with more traditional forums like US News & World Report, Car and Driver, and Edmunds to make an informed decision. I wouldn't say it was financially optimal at this point in our lives, but it was certainly a good move from a safety and emotional/psychological standpoint.

:beer

ClemsonBogle
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Re: The 10 year car ownership "rule"

Post by ClemsonBogle » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:59 pm

I believe that the first 36-60K of a cars life are very "easy" on it mechanically and hard on it financially.
I believe that people when they get a new car, are careful with it, get the oil changed, may have free maintenance, wash it etc.

After 3-4 years they are sick of it, want to get something new..., need the latest and greatest. I like to buy them at this point and drive them for 3-5 years myself.

If cars depreciate ~35-40% in the first 3-4 years they depreciate less than 20-25% the next 3-4.
Since the driving between 50K to 100K is likely also maintenance free. You can drive 3-4 years for an average of 6% per year of car initial value or .5% per month.

Honda Accord new is 28K. 3 Years old 20-21K feels about right? 6 year old accord 15K, you absorbed 5K vs original owners 8-9. With almost no maintenance / break down risk.

You could go further with buying the 6 year old car and driving for years 3-4 with higher risk on potential maintenance and lower depreciation.

My perfect balance is High mileage, low years. I like cars with 20-25K per year...max depreciation and the fewest possible transmission switches, braking, accelerating, etc. High miles normally require long highway stints which are very easy on a car.

Low miles could be lots of ideling...aka a cop car is probably maintained like a plane on hours because they could idle for 18 hours and get 0 miles during that time but the engine is running (no wear on tranny though).

JUST my .02 but i also dont buy former rental cars...that's just my preference and goes against everything i said but i can be a hypocrite is i want. Finally, trucks and some cars dont work this way but you can easily figure out what the cars depreciation per year is looking historically. Tacoma pickups dont depreciate at all basically nor jeeps, so in those cases like a 1 year old is a bout as good as it gets cause 5-6 year old ones still hold ridiculous resale.

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