Iphone X is $1000

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Seasonal
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun May 21, 2017 1:49 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by Seasonal » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:49 am

I don't see anything on the new iphone that I want as much as I want Google Lens.

Presenter points phone at an apple and asks "how many calories does it have?". Phone responds "there are 95 calories in a medium apple".

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNux9An ... e&t=52m13s
Cash wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:55 pm
That's subjective. It's fine to say that there aren't any features that you value over X device. But to assert that there is nothing new is silly.

For me, I like the new form factor (finally back to the glass back), edge-to-edge screen, enhanced camera features, touch to wake, wireless charging, and enhanced security through FaceID. I was going to upgrade anyway, so the only question is whether the X is worth a few hundred dollars more than the 8. Given the amount of time I use the device, the screen alone is worth that. You get the usable space of the 8-plus screen in the 8 form factor. So yes, in my subjective opinion, there are "truly important" differentiating factors. But maybe not for you :).
None of these are new. There are a number of phones with glass backs. Almost all new flagship Android phones have edge-to-edge screens, as did some models from last year. The other features you list, enhanced camera features, touch to wake, wireless charging, and enhanced security through FaceID, have been available for a while.

kehyler
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:56 am

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by kehyler » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:55 am

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:04 pm
From William Bernstein's "If You Can. How Millenials Get Rich Slowly":
Image
source: https://www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf
+1

At the moment, I'm happily waiting until my current phone fails before upgrading. I'm well past the 2 year upgrade cycle offered by verizon.

lazydavid
Posts: 1039
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by lazydavid » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:01 am

marc515 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:41 am
CyclingDuo wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:13 am
At least they haven't pooped on the new Apple watch yet... :shock:
Give them time!
<rimshot>

harrington
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:09 am

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by harrington » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:08 am

Love my iPhone 5. Does everything I want and it was free. I own a boatload of AAPL stock so I hope the new phone sells well.....

junior
Posts: 691
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by junior » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:21 am

Seasonal wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:49 am
I don't see anything on the new iphone that I want as much as I want Google Lens.

Presenter points phone at an apple and asks "how many calories does it have?". Phone responds "there are 95 calories in a medium apple".
It's pretty easy to memorize the calories in an apple, if I was on a diet I wouldn't need that. Can it determine the calories in a Chicken Burito with cheese, pinto beans, sour cream, and tomatoes? Obviously not. If I was on a diet I'd still need to track calories with a system where I need to manually calculate the calories or read food labels manually, or even use a food scale. Myfitnesspal is a great app for that. Google lens, I'm guessing, would be completely useless.

I imagine that I'd find google lens not very useful in general for similar reasons compared to each use case.

User avatar
DaftInvestor
Posts: 2852
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:11 am

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:23 am

marc515 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:41 am
CyclingDuo wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:13 am
matatupuncher wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:59 am
The anti-IPhone snobs on here are worse than beer snobs.
At least they haven't pooped on the new Apple watch yet... :shock:
Give them time!
LOL on the snob comment as I would think this term better associates with many of the folks who get the latest and most expensive iPhones and iwatches, etc. Doesn't the definition of snob have terms like "wealth" and "social status" in It? Then why associate the term to someone that chooses to pay $100 for a smartphone versus $1000.

Seasonal
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun May 21, 2017 1:49 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by Seasonal » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:34 am

junior wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:21 am
Seasonal wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:49 am
I don't see anything on the new iphone that I want as much as I want Google Lens.

Presenter points phone at an apple and asks "how many calories does it have?". Phone responds "there are 95 calories in a medium apple".
It's pretty easy to memorize the calories in an apple, if I was on a diet I wouldn't need that. Can it determine the calories in a Chicken Burito with cheese, pinto beans, sour cream, and tomatoes? Obviously not. If I was on a diet I'd still need to track calories with a system where I need to manually calculate the calories or read food labels manually, or even use a food scale. Myfitnesspal is a great app for that. Google lens, I'm guessing, would be completely useless.

I imagine that I'd find google lens not very useful in general for similar reasons compared to each use case.
The innovative thing is that it recognizes that there's an object on screen and can figure out that your question relates to the object on screen. Combining recognizing things on screen and being able to answer questions in the context of those things is a very powerful function.

I don't see any reason it wouldn't be able to do everything myfitnesspal does. It won't be limited to apples or food products.

Watch the video from about about the 41 minute mark, in which he shows functions to be rolled out in the coming months. If you think these things are easy, try these functions in Siri.

stan1
Posts: 4773
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by stan1 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:35 am

I still use a subsidized iPhone 6S I bought in Spring, 2015. Many people thinking they are on a 24-30 month refresh cycle are going to get sticker shock when they realize carrier subsidies have ended and even a 64MB iPhone 8 is $699. Guessing a lot of people (like me) will try to wait another cycle and some will switch over to an Android phone selling at half the price.

I'll need someone to educate me on a legitimate use case for augmented reality (I don't see myself playing AR games).

Cash
Posts: 1153
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:52 am

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by Cash » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:39 am

Seasonal wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:49 am
None of these are new. There are a number of phones with glass backs. Almost all new flagship Android phones have edge-to-edge screens, as did some models from last year. The other features you list, enhanced camera features, touch to wake, wireless charging, and enhanced security through FaceID, have been available for a while.
Like I said earlier, this is like trying to sell someone with Vanguard accounts/holdings on the virtues of Schwab or Fidelity. Sure, Android is a fine alternative. Nothing wrong with it, and they probably do some things earlier/better than the iPhone. But I like the Apple ecosystem, and I am assured that when Apple implements something, it's going to work. Period. An Android phone might be first to market with a feature, but often the bugs haven't been worked out. Like tricking the Samsung phones' facial recognition system with a simple printed photograph. I am confident that the iPhone will not be similarly tricked.

Regardless, enjoy your Android :beer

CyclingDuo
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by CyclingDuo » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:41 am

oldcomputerguy wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:47 am
CyclingDuo wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:54 pm
2 year contract works out to be about $1.37 per day for this Apple X phone.

Water bill, on average, is about $1.39 per day for me.

Cup of black coffee at the local coffee shop is $1.50 per day for me.

Keeping my haircut works out, on average, to cost me $1.62 per day (based on 12 cuts per year including tips)

Internet bill, on average, is about $1.65 per day for me.

Cable TV bill, on average, is about $3.28 per day for me.

One adult beverage cocktail, on average, at home is about $3.50 per day for me.

Home electric bill, on average, is about $3.62 per day for me..

Commute per day, on average, is about $3.89 in gas alone per day for me.

Eating out one meal per week with the wife, on average, costs us about $5.70 per day (based on 52 meals out a year at $40 per check)
Or put another way: $1,000 is (right now) about 16 shares of VTSAX.

:greedy
Right.

I should have included in my daily cost list above...

Investing, on average, is about $206.27 into our retirement accounts per day for me.
Last edited by CyclingDuo on Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

junior
Posts: 691
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by junior » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:42 am

Seasonal wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:34 am


I don't see any reason it wouldn't be able to do everything myfitnesspal does. I
I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. A itailian Hoagie with oil looks the same as an Italian Hoagie without oil, but contains 100 more calories. I don't think google lens could possibly tell the difference. A coffee with sugar looks the same as a coffee without sugar (or with artificial sweetener) but contains potentially 100 or more calories. A chicken Burito with cheese (wrapped) looks the same as a chicken Burito without cheese but has 200 more calories. Manual input is needed to tell the software the things you can't see. This is stuff myfitnesspal can distinguish through data entry. I.E. you tell it exactly what you're eating and it tells you the calories based on the database, or you make custom entries to the database based on what you often eat.

I'll acknowledge that via A.I. perhaps one day, perhaps not any time soon, google lense might be able to do some interesting things with estimating calories that myfitnesspal can't do (maybe estimating a homecooked meal?), but it's likely in the near future to only do easy things like the apple, which aren't very useful.

alfaspider
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by alfaspider » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:52 am

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:04 pm
From William Bernstein's "If You Can. How Millenials Get Rich Slowly":
Image
source: https://www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf
Fair point, but I'm willing to bet most people who are shelling out for the "X" model aren't going to be at the median income. A $1,000 purchase looks a lot different to someone with a HHI of $250,000 than someone with $50,000.

User avatar
jabberwockOG
Posts: 939
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 7:23 am

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by jabberwockOG » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:19 am

I never buy newly released products when the rest of the herd is feverishly standing in line to pay a premium price. I love Apple products and currently own a 6S (which works great), but barring loss or breakdown I will continue to use it for apprx 2 more years. By that point the X or its equivalent will cost $400-500 or so and it will be a reasonable buy.

bluebolt
Posts: 506
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:01 am

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by bluebolt » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:24 am

I have both an Android & iPhone.

If cost is your priority, no question you should go with an Android phone.
If flexibility is your priority, you should probably go with Android.
If a rich app ecosystem is your priority, this used to go in iOS' favor, but now it is a toss-up.
If customer service is a priority, no question you should go with iOS (and probably AppleCare).
If upgrading your OS to the latest version is a priority, no question you should go with iOS.

iOS is still a better OS than Android in many respects (and Android is better is some respects). However, Android has closed the gaps in the most important areas (except OS upgrades), so if you are happy with Android, there aren't major reasons to switch.

NB: If you do go with Android and your needs are anywhere beyond basic, you should buy a flagship phone running the latest Android OS. This is for two main reasons - app developers can't test on every phone, but you can be sure they test extensively on every flagship phone. And, you're most likely to be able to upgrade to the next 2 or 3 versions of Android.

lazydavid
Posts: 1039
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by lazydavid » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:25 am

stan1 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:35 am
I still use a subsidized iPhone 6S I bought in Spring, 2015. Many people thinking they are on a 24-30 month refresh cycle are going to get sticker shock when they realize carrier subsidies have ended and even a 64MB iPhone 8 is $699.
The only people who should get sticker shock from the elimination of the subsidies are people who can't do math. All the providers are similar, but I'll take AT&T as an example, since that's what I'm most familiar with.

My cost per month per additional line is $40, which is then discounted by $25 for owning my phone (ie not being on contract with a subsidized phone). So that's $600 over two years. If the base iPhone 8 was available without a subsidy, it'd be $99 on a two-year contract, with no service discount. You're paying the same price either way. The only difference between the two options is the subsidized version is $99 upfront and $40/mo for the first two years, while the unsubsidized is $0 upfront and $44.13/mo for the first two years. But the total cost is the same.

DanMahowny
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by DanMahowny » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:26 am

It's a shame that young people (and many adults) spend a significant portion of their lives staring at a small screen.

And I'll admit, I spend too much time watching people stare at small screens.

There are better things for us to do.

lightheir
Posts: 2136
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:43 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by lightheir » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:32 am

DanMahowny wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:26 am
It's a shame that young people (and many adults) spend a significant portion of their lives staring at a small screen.

And I'll admit, I spend too much time watching people stare at small screens.

There are better things for us to do.
Meh. It's not about the small screen at all. That small screen is amazing.

That said, the small screen is the thing I hate most about using my phone. I'd actually use it a lot more if it were full-screen or larger (projection would be great!)

JuniorBH
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:54 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by JuniorBH » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:45 am

I'll be buying one, but I'm in the unique situation of getting a fixed monthly subsidy from my employer to put towards a cell phone. As my current 6s is almost paid off, upgrading allows me to get a newer phone at no cost to me.

The issue i'm trying to solve is whether learning to use the Iphone X without the home button is worth having the "newest" phone, or whether I should just go with the Iphone 8 with which I'm sure I'll be more comfortable. I don't like the idea of having to swipe various places on the screen to accomplish things, I much prefer just pressing the home button to escape back to the home screen.

kjvmartin
Posts: 879
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:57 am

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by kjvmartin » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:14 am

stan1 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:35 am
I still use a subsidized iPhone 6S I bought in Spring, 2015. Many people thinking they are on a 24-30 month refresh cycle are going to get sticker shock when they realize carrier subsidies have ended and even a 64MB iPhone 8 is $699. Guessing a lot of people (like me) will try to wait another cycle and some will switch over to an Android phone selling at half the price.

I'll need someone to educate me on a legitimate use case for augmented reality (I don't see myself playing AR games).
Go to your furniture stores website. Point your phone camera at your living room and then impose AR images of couches, tables, etc. into the room on your Retina display.

AllenSmith
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by AllenSmith » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:19 am

It's really $1150; no one is going to buy the 64gig for $1000.

$1150 for the 256GB!

BW1985
Posts: 1630
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:12 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by BW1985 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:29 am

alfaspider wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:52 am
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:04 pm
From William Bernstein's "If You Can. How Millenials Get Rich Slowly":
Image
source: https://www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf
Fair point, but I'm willing to bet most people who are shelling out for the "X" model aren't going to be at the median income. A $1,000 purchase looks a lot different to someone with a HHI of $250,000 than someone with $50,000.
I'd take that bet. If they can get it financed on payments, many many people making $50,000 (or less) will still buy it.
"Squirrels figured out how to save eons ago. They buried acorns. Some, they dug up, for food. Others, they let to sprout, in new oak trees. We could learn from squirrels." -john94549

new2bogle
Posts: 1074
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:05 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by new2bogle » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:42 am

Cash wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:55 pm
Alexa9 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:50 pm
Cash wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:59 pm
Alexa9 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:48 pm
The facial recognition is alarming to privacy. The top of the iPhone X looks bad where the camera is. The 8 looks like a decent improvement. What is going to happen with the iPhone 9? lol
How is it more alarming than TouchID? I'm waiting for the security experts to chime in, but Apple says it is much more secure (unless you have a twin). In the keynote, they said the chances of unauthorized access with FaceID are 1 in 1,000,000 while it is 1 in 50,000 with TouchID. Do you think it's easier for someone to make a mask of your face (which Apple says it has accounted for) than to copy your fingerprint?
No, I am referring to an NSA Big Brother type facial tracking that Apple is implementing. It is an invasion of privacy. Hopefully you're not forced to use it.
You can always opt to use a passcode instead. For the record, the FaceID information is stored locally on the device.
And your personal data with Equifax is secure.

stoptothink
Posts: 3655
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by stoptothink » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:56 am

BW1985 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:29 am
alfaspider wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:52 am
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:04 pm
From William Bernstein's "If You Can. How Millenials Get Rich Slowly":
Image
source: https://www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf
Fair point, but I'm willing to bet most people who are shelling out for the "X" model aren't going to be at the median income. A $1,000 purchase looks a lot different to someone with a HHI of $250,000 than someone with $50,000.
I'd take that bet. If they can get it financed on payments, many many people making $50,000 (or less) will still buy it.
I'd take that bet in a heartbeat as well. Alfaspider is insane if he thinks the primary purchasers of this new phone are going to be the wealthy. I must have spoken to a dozen people yesterday who were itching to reserve one, not a single one of these people even makes $50k and several of them make less than half that (they are all on my staff). Apple hasn't sold a billion phones marketing to the wealthy. The single greatest example of the power of branding that this world has ever seen.

As far as it being "worth" $1k, from the perspective that people are generally using them several hours a day; there is no way to disagree with that statement. But, that is what is most scary.

Cash
Posts: 1153
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:52 am

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by Cash » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:57 am

new2bogle wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:42 am
Cash wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:55 pm

You can always opt to use a passcode instead. For the record, the FaceID information is stored locally on the device.
And your personal data with Equifax is secure.
What does that have to do with what I said? If your credit information were stored on your phone and nowhere else, you wouldn't be worried about the Equifax breach.

alfaspider
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by alfaspider » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:59 am

BW1985 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:29 am
alfaspider wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:52 am
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:04 pm
From William Bernstein's "If You Can. How Millenials Get Rich Slowly":
Image
source: https://www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf
Fair point, but I'm willing to bet most people who are shelling out for the "X" model aren't going to be at the median income. A $1,000 purchase looks a lot different to someone with a HHI of $250,000 than someone with $50,000.
I'd take that bet. If they can get it financed on payments, many many people making $50,000 (or less) will still buy it.
I don't doubt there will be people who buy them in that income bracket, but most people I know who are use a several generations old iphone or some flavor of android handset. That's why Apple now has so many tiers of phones- you can buy everything from a $350 base iphone SE to a $1150 top of the line X, and just about every price point in between.
Last edited by alfaspider on Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Countermoon
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:22 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by Countermoon » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:18 am

The facial recognition is creepy. No thanks.

$1,000 for a smartphone is madness. There are fantastic Android phones in the $200-$300 range.

User avatar
Leesbro63
Posts: 4780
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:36 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by Leesbro63 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:20 am

stoptothink wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:56 am

I'd take that bet in a heartbeat as well. Alfaspider is insane if he thinks the primary purchasers of this new phone are going to be the wealthy. I must have spoken to a dozen people yesterday who were itching to reserve one, not a single one of these people even makes $50k and several of them make less than half that (they are all on my staff). Apple hasn't sold a billion phones marketing to the wealthy. The single greatest example of the power of branding that this world has ever seen.

As far as it being "worth" $1k, from the perspective that people are generally using them several hours a day; there is no way to disagree with that statement. But, that is what is most scary.

An observation: Many young people can't afford cars and houses like we did at their age (I'm 57)...so they splurge on phones and Starbucks.

stoptothink
Posts: 3655
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by stoptothink » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:28 am

Leesbro63 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:20 am
stoptothink wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:56 am

I'd take that bet in a heartbeat as well. Alfaspider is insane if he thinks the primary purchasers of this new phone are going to be the wealthy. I must have spoken to a dozen people yesterday who were itching to reserve one, not a single one of these people even makes $50k and several of them make less than half that (they are all on my staff). Apple hasn't sold a billion phones marketing to the wealthy. The single greatest example of the power of branding that this world has ever seen.

As far as it being "worth" $1k, from the perspective that people are generally using them several hours a day; there is no way to disagree with that statement. But, that is what is most scary.

An observation: Many young people can't afford cars and houses like we did at their age (I'm 57)...so they splurge on phones and Starbucks.
I'm actually in that "young people" category, but I guess I can agree somewhat, although many of my peers (and younger) have some pretty darn nice cars that I have no idea how they afford. We had some friends over yesterday for dinner; early 30's, my buddy is the tech guy for a local high school (probably makes ~$40k/yr) and his wife stays at home with their two small children. He's on pins and needles waiting for the opportunity to reserve a pair of them. I did make a sly comment about the cost and his response was "Tech is my thing, the cost is the cost." They have several thousand dollars in Apple products with them at all times (phones, watches, tablets) and upgrade them with each new generation. I'm not putting food on his table and he's not begging me for money, so have at it.
Last edited by stoptothink on Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

The Wizard
Posts: 10813
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:45 pm
Location: Reading, MA

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by The Wizard » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:30 am

stan1 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:35 am
I still use a subsidized iPhone 6S I bought in Spring, 2015. Many people thinking they are on a 24-30 month refresh cycle are going to get sticker shock when they realize carrier subsidies have ended...
Where does it say that carrier subsidies have ended?
Hasn't Verizon (for instance) always taken the purchase price of the phone, divided by 24, and included that amount in your two year contract?

I don't know personally since I buy my phones outright lately...
Attempted new signature...

alfaspider
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by alfaspider » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:35 am

The Wizard wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:30 am
stan1 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:35 am
I still use a subsidized iPhone 6S I bought in Spring, 2015. Many people thinking they are on a 24-30 month refresh cycle are going to get sticker shock when they realize carrier subsidies have ended...
Where does it say that carrier subsidies have ended?
Hasn't Verizon (for instance) always taken the purchase price of the phone, divided by 24, and included that amount in your two year contract?

I don't know personally since I buy my phones outright lately...
At least for AT&T, it used to be that if you signed a 2-year contract, you got a lump sum subsidy of around $400. Service was the same price if you brought your own device, so there was little reason not to upgrade- it only cost around $200 out of pocket, and you could sell your old device for about that much. Now, there's no subsidy and the service has remained about the same price, so there's been an effective increase in the price of service- part of the reason why I'm looking at switching to T-mobile when my final 2-year contract is up next month. They do offer to roll the cost into the price of service, but it's just a financing plan. I have no interest in financing a purchase other than a home.

onourway
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:39 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by onourway » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:37 am

The Wizard wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:30 am
Where does it say that carrier subsidies have ended?
Hasn't Verizon (for instance) always taken the purchase price of the phone, divided by 24, and included that amount in your two year contract?

I don't know personally since I buy my phones outright lately...
Subsidies were back when phones were 'free' or '$199' because the extra cost was 'subsidized' by the carrier and then recouped through bloated line access charges. It was just a couple of years ago when all the carriers decoupled the cost of the phone from the cost of the service and started offering the option to either pay for the phone fully up-front, or to break it out into 24 monthly payments (surprisingly with no interest charges). That decoupling is actually what has allowed phone prices to skyrocket as most people don't consider an extra $10-20/month to upgrade to a better model phone worth worrying about.

ERISA Stone
Posts: 1245
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:54 am

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by ERISA Stone » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:56 am

I don't understand how interesting posts with helpful advice get shut down after 5 comments but somehow whinging about the costs of a pocket computer can go on for 3 pages.
Last edited by ERISA Stone on Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
dumbbunny
Posts: 755
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:00 pm
Location: Oregon coast

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by dumbbunny » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:58 am

wander wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:45 am
I may buy one when I am up for a new one, but still like my Motorola G4.
Not me, I'd buy another Moto G4.
“It’s the curse of old men to realize that in the end we control nothing." "Homeland" episode, "Gerontion"

thangngo
Posts: 263
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:08 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by thangngo » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:11 am

Good for Apple! I'm fairly certain that people in other part of the world (with lower income) but willing to pay even more for the iPhone.

I can't think of another company that introduce a new product every year and get people excited and dump their current phone to buy the new one. Regardless of their phones are capable of lasting for another 5 years.

Maybe some car companies that can lure people to trade in for a new car every 3-5 years?

Nevertheless, good for the economy! I know that I make a good bet to invest 70% of my retirement in U.S. Total Stock Market fund.

lazydavid
Posts: 1039
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by lazydavid » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:38 am

alfaspider wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:35 am
At least for AT&T, it used to be that if you signed a 2-year contract, you got a lump sum subsidy of around $400. Service was the same price if you brought your own device, so there was little reason not to upgrade- it only cost around $200 out of pocket, and you could sell your old device for about that much. Now, there's no subsidy and the service has remained about the same price, so there's been an effective increase in the price of service- part of the reason why I'm looking at switching to T-mobile when my final 2-year contract is up next month. They do offer to roll the cost into the price of service, but it's just a financing plan. I have no interest in financing a purchase other than a home.
The bolded part is incorrect. See my post upthread. Short version: For plans that were available when subsidized phones were still a thing (such as the Mobile Share Value I'm on), If the phone is on-contract, they charge a $40 line access fee. If you own it outright or it's on a NEXT payment plan, the access fee is $15. This literally shows up on my bill as:

Monthly plan charges for 9/02 - 10/01 $15.00
Access for Smartphone 4G LTE w/ VVM $40.00
Discount for Access -$25.00
International Roaming - Expanded $0.00

Now that the contracts have been gone for more than two years, the current plans don't need to make this distinction, and the access fee on the Mobile Share Advantage plan is a flat $20. They reduced the base rates, but I have so many devices on my account that the per-device fee makes the new plans more expensive for me, which is why I haven't switched.

junior
Posts: 691
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by junior » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:46 am

If we assume the actual cost of ownership difference between buying an affordable phone and keeping it until it breaks and upgrading every two years to a flagship phone is about 330 dollars a year, if you invest that difference at 4% real return you get $26,580 after 35 years.

Is having $26,580 worth 35 years of cheap phones to struggling Millennials?

Of course we could change the assumptions- a cheaper phone plan, say $40 dollars cheaper, combined with a cheaper phone could save you 810 dollars per year, invest that over 35 years and maybe you get $65,241 at 4% real return.

squirm
Posts: 994
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:53 am

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by squirm » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:57 am

Seasonal wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:49 am
I don't see anything on the new iphone that I want as much as I want Google Lens.

Presenter points phone at an apple and asks "how many calories does it have?". Phone responds "there are 95 calories in a medium apple".

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNux9An ... e&t=52m13s
Cash wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:55 pm
That's subjective. It's fine to say that there aren't any features that you value over X device. But to assert that there is nothing new is silly.

For me, I like the new form factor (finally back to the glass back), edge-to-edge screen, enhanced camera features, touch to wake, wireless charging, and enhanced security through FaceID. I was going to upgrade anyway, so the only question is whether the X is worth a few hundred dollars more than the 8. Given the amount of time I use the device, the screen alone is worth that. You get the usable space of the 8-plus screen in the 8 form factor. So yes, in my subjective opinion, there are "truly important" differentiating factors. But maybe not for you :).
None of these are new. There are a number of phones with glass backs. Almost all new flagship Android phones have edge-to-edge screens, as did some models from last year. The other features you list, enhanced camera features, touch to wake, wireless charging, and enhanced security through FaceID, have been available for a while.
I'm not impressed... Seems like a novelty piece. However Apple has their fan base and they'll buy anything and everything.

squirm
Posts: 994
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:53 am

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by squirm » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:58 am

junior wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:46 am
If we assume the actual cost of ownership difference between buying an affordable phone and keeping it until it breaks and upgrading every two years to a flagship phone is about 330 dollars a year, if you invest that difference at 4% real return you get $26,580 after 35 years.

Is having $26,580 worth 35 years of cheap phones to struggling Millennials?

Of course we could change the assumptions- a cheaper phone plan, say $40 dollars cheaper, combined with a cheaper phone could save you 810 dollars per year, invest that over 35 years and maybe you get $65,241 at 4% real return.
It's all about bragging rights.

User avatar
Pajamas
Posts: 2308
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:32 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by Pajamas » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:04 pm

$1,000 emjoi machine. Parody video contains a few four-letter words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjlHnJvXdQs

wfrobinette
Posts: 522
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:14 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by wfrobinette » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:09 pm

topper1296 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:27 pm
I'm not a "tech" junkie, however the X just sounds like a more expensive version of the Samsung Galaxy s8 which also has no home button and facial and iris recognition.

Edit: forgot to add, but the Samsung also has wireless charging.
And support for next generation LTE.

alfaspider
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by alfaspider » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:09 pm

lazydavid wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:38 am
alfaspider wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:35 am
At least for AT&T, it used to be that if you signed a 2-year contract, you got a lump sum subsidy of around $400. Service was the same price if you brought your own device, so there was little reason not to upgrade- it only cost around $200 out of pocket, and you could sell your old device for about that much. Now, there's no subsidy and the service has remained about the same price, so there's been an effective increase in the price of service- part of the reason why I'm looking at switching to T-mobile when my final 2-year contract is up next month. They do offer to roll the cost into the price of service, but it's just a financing plan. I have no interest in financing a purchase other than a home.
The bolded part is incorrect. See my post upthread. Short version: For plans that were available when subsidized phones were still a thing (such as the Mobile Share Value I'm on), If the phone is on-contract, they charge a $40 line access fee. If you own it outright or it's on a NEXT payment plan, the access fee is $15. This literally shows up on my bill as:

Monthly plan charges for 9/02 - 10/01 $15.00
Access for Smartphone 4G LTE w/ VVM $40.00
Discount for Access -$25.00
International Roaming - Expanded $0.00

Now that the contracts have been gone for more than two years, the current plans don't need to make this distinction, and the access fee on the Mobile Share Advantage plan is a flat $20. They reduced the base rates, but I have so many devices on my account that the per-device fee makes the new plans more expensive for me, which is why I haven't switched.
Not really true in my situation. I am on a grandfathered iphone unlimited plan. A new unlimited plan costs what I am paying now.

wfrobinette
Posts: 522
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:14 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by wfrobinette » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:12 pm

onourway wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:37 am
The Wizard wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:30 am
Where does it say that carrier subsidies have ended?
Hasn't Verizon (for instance) always taken the purchase price of the phone, divided by 24, and included that amount in your two year contract?

I don't know personally since I buy my phones outright lately...
Subsidies were back when phones were 'free' or '$199' because the extra cost was 'subsidized' by the carrier and then recouped through bloated line access charges. It was just a couple of years ago when all the carriers decoupled the cost of the phone from the cost of the service and started offering the option to either pay for the phone fully up-front, or to break it out into 24 monthly payments (surprisingly with no interest charges). That decoupling is actually what has allowed phone prices to skyrocket as most people don't consider an extra $10-20/month to upgrade to a better model phone worth worrying about.
Believe it or not. On ATT I tried to buy my phone outright. If I made that choice I would lose out on a $20/month service credit. Forced me in to a Next agreement. I guess they try to use that as a 2 year lockin.

lazydavid
Posts: 1039
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by lazydavid » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:18 pm

alfaspider wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:09 pm
Not really true in my situation. I am on a grandfathered iphone unlimited plan. A new unlimited plan costs what I am paying now.
Not really a fair comparison though, since this was always the case. The old unlimited plans were available for such a short time (discontinued literally one month after the launch of the first iPad), that you could really only have gotten one subsidized phone. If you've upgraded your device in the past 7 years, it's been at full price with no service discount.

CyclingDuo
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by CyclingDuo » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:21 pm

ERISA Stone wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:56 am
I don't understand how interesting posts with helpful advice get shut down after 5 comments but somehow whinging about the costs of a pocket computer can go on for 3 pages.
How true!

Many who purchase Apple consumer products have already been labeled as "idiots", or "dumb" thus far in this thread by non-iPhone users. My main Apple product is provided to me by my employer, so I guess my gloves will have to come off if anybody goes after my employer (since they pay my bills). :twisted:

Throw some more mudslinging and maybe a political comment into the thread, and it will get the "thread has run its course" shutdown in time.

I am jonesin' for the watch though! It would certainly be an upgrade to my $39.95 Armitron watch that is butt ugly and have had for years.

My current iPhone 6 that I have had for over 2 years is totally paid off, and I am due for an upgrade at some point if and when I choose to do so.

lightheir
Posts: 2136
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:43 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by lightheir » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:25 pm

kehyler wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:55 am
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:04 pm
From William Bernstein's "If You Can. How Millenials Get Rich Slowly":
Image
source: https://www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf
+1

At the moment, I'm happily waiting until my current phone fails before upgrading. I'm well past the 2 year upgrade cycle offered by verizon.
Off-topic, but I think the author of that quote misses the mark here.

I seriously doubt saving 20% as opposed to 15% of your income at $50k/yr will significantly change your quality of retirement life. At most, it will allow you a few extra expenditures down the road when you're well past the age of prime health and possibly too old to enjoy many of the things you would have enjoyed when you were healthy and younger.

I'd actually advise someone to forget about squeezing the extra 2-5% of savings per year out of their budget at $50k/year, and just save whatever they can and hope for the best down the road, as I think the cost of an extremely frugal life up front far exceeds the cost of missed life opportunities when you are healthy and in the prime of your life. This doesn't mean I advocate going crazy and spending without abandon - it just means it's just not worth the life cost to be superfrugal in the prime of your life just to 'save' for a retirement that will be only marginally (if even) better than it would be had you not saved that 2-5% at $50k/yr.

I don't think it's fair to ding millenials for not penny pinching to a superfrugal extent (and that really what it is if your retirement is make or break based upon a freaking latte every morning), especially when the world we're in today has massive upticks in costs that wipe out the relevance of most such savings. Like college costs, nursing home costs, end-of-life care costs, many of which are easily in excess of $200k apiece, and sorry, your brown bag or latte saved today isn't going to give you any reasonable cushion against them down the road.

junior
Posts: 691
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by junior » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:37 pm

lightheir wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:25 pm

I seriously doubt saving 20% as opposed to 15% of your income at $50k/yr will significantly change your quality of retirement life.
I'm guessing most people only save 5% (probably just to get the employer matching if they have a 401 (k) ). The author made the point in a podcast that investing is like losing weight, it's very simple. But it's hard to actually find the willpower to diet and exercise, just like it's hard to find the willpower to save 15%.

User avatar
Will do good
Posts: 545
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:23 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by Will do good » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:40 pm

Leesbro63 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:20 am
stoptothink wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:56 am

I'd take that bet in a heartbeat as well. Alfaspider is insane if he thinks the primary purchasers of this new phone are going to be the wealthy. I must have spoken to a dozen people yesterday who were itching to reserve one, not a single one of these people even makes $50k and several of them make less than half that (they are all on my staff). Apple hasn't sold a billion phones marketing to the wealthy. The single greatest example of the power of branding that this world has ever seen.

As far as it being "worth" $1k, from the perspective that people are generally using them several hours a day; there is no way to disagree with that statement. But, that is what is most scary.

An observation: Many young people can't afford cars and houses like we did at their age (I'm 57)...so they splurge on phones and Starbucks.
Agreed.

In many parts of the world young working adult is having a hard time making enough money to afford a car, a house of their own (unlike the baby boomers). So they spend it on stuff they can afford, such as a nice smart phones, eating out, fashion,vacations etc...

User avatar
Allocationist
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:32 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by Allocationist » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:43 pm

I find the tone of some comments about new iPhones, Teslas very interesting from a BH perspective. I worked very hard, lived frugally and saved/invested for over 30-years so my family and I would have enough funds to experience some pleasures if I lived long enough.

So, for the record, I own a Tesla Model S. I am going to buy a Tesla Model 3. I am going to buy an iPhone X (256 GB). I fly business class on most international flights. I take up to ten family members on vacation. I donate to charity.

IMO, harvesting the fruits of our labor and prudent living is enjoyable and rewarding.
Last edited by Allocationist on Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wrongfunds
Posts: 671
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by wrongfunds » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:46 pm

You probably have not read some of the topics where over 50% gross income goes straight to savings! Heck, you are made to feel extremely guilty if you don't do better than 1/3 directly in to savings. Expected life style is supposedly at least 1/3 savings. then rest 1/3 taxes and 1/3 spending .

Come to think of it, it will not be long before you can register to this forum, you will have to pledge to do that :-)

lightheir
Posts: 2136
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:43 pm

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Post by lightheir » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:50 pm

junior wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:37 pm
lightheir wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:25 pm

I seriously doubt saving 20% as opposed to 15% of your income at $50k/yr will significantly change your quality of retirement life.
I'm guessing most people only save 5% (probably just to get the employer matching if they have a 401 (k) ). The author made the point in a podcast that investing is like losing weight, it's very simple. But it's hard to actually find the willpower to diet and exercise, just like it's hard to find the willpower to save 15%.
I don't deny that willpower is hard, but my message is that the problem that the author should be focusing on is the lack of income to generate enough savings for what one would typically call a 'good' retirement without financial worry. In my opinion, in today's world at $50k/yr, even saving 15% isn't going to come close to cutting it for true financial independence in retirement. That's not a discipline problem - it's a lack of income problem.

I find it fruitless and even tone-deaf to criticize someone who's saving 2-4% of their income at $50k for being irresponsible, when in reality, even to save that much in today's world of huge cost escalations (college, health care, housing, etc.) requires tremendous sacrifice. Yes, I've been at and below that income fairly recently, so I know full well how hard it is. It's not the 1950s-1980s where $50k bought you the world.

It's a very different equation for saving when you're a lot higher in income, like $100k+. I found it downright EASY to save 60% of my income as a single once I was north of $100k. It was super hard to even save anything at $50k/yr, and I wasn't living a spendy lifestyle in the least back then.

Post Reply